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samsung led dlp no longer made what to buy? - Page 3

post #61 of 94
This is what my local ISF calibrator had to say when I contacted him about calibrating my 61A750:

"We have not sold any DLP's since the new ones have been out with Samsung. I have however seen a couple and was able to calibrate it almost to 98% true of D65 in color and 6500 Kelvin's."
post #62 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

http://www.luminus.com/content1034
365x2x24 = 17,250 Hours Warranty on a device that they say will last over 100,000 hours.... or 17% of what they claim.....

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...... and wonder why its not warranted longer if they believe their own statements.

hmmmm

Well my first question would be what is the industry standard for these sort of warranties? The only thing making making me go 'hummm...' at this point is your apparent unfounded dislike for LED technology and the Samsung brand in general. You may have your reasons for these things, but you have failed to substantiate the LED problems.

What I'd would like to hear from you is a first hand experience with this technology that gives merit to your claims (notice I say 'merit' and not 'proof' as even if you had a single first hand experience that could be a one-off instance). Can you provide that, because the links your providing within AVSForum aren't convincing and in some instances reveal how you seem to have interpreted others comments to mean something that may not have been the original intent.
post #63 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Also, didn't someone else claim that PhlatLight's were what is being used in the Samsung LED sets? If so, why does Samsung only claim a 60,000 hour bulb life when the bulb manufacturer claims a median life of 100,000? Is there something about Samsung's application that is so stressful that a 40% derate is required on the LED's?

Good technical question I too would like to know the answer to, but ultimately irrelevant since Samsung is only claiming 60,000 hours on these sets. As a consumer when you purchase one they are being up front in their claims. Perhaps this mysterious phopsher dye (that we haven't confirmed exist I should add) that the LEDs are dipped in to give D65 wears at that point? It all comes back to this annoying trend I find here of service techs pretending to be engineers... No disrespect if you are a service tech, we need you guys but there's generally a signifigant competency gap.

Quote:


Why wouldn't Samsung also offer a 1 year parts labor/ 2 year LED warranty if they are using PhlatLight's (since Luminus offers two years), unless something about the application voids Luminus' warranty?

Probably a legal issue. Samsung is acting as an OEM on these parts. In many cases OEMS assume full responsibility for warranty. Regardless it's a reach to read too much into either of these.
post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

The coating that is applied to the LEDs to achieve D65 comes off over time, leaving you a set that is no where close to D65. If all you want is a set with no accuracy (and no way to correct) and no mechanical problems, its a great set.


After reviewing the information you've provided to support your position, I don't understand how you've come to the conclusions you have? How you can read what these two calibrators posted and walk away saying that the color shift is not correctable by yearly calibrations? Do you consider your other sources to be more knowledgeable on the issue than the ones you've provided? Might they shed more light on why you so confidently make the assertions that you do? derekjsmith "LED's will drift over time just like any other display type. LCD’s with CCFL use phosphor, new LCD with LED use phosphor, Plasma uses phosphor and traditional CRT’s. Lamped based systems xenon or UHP will also drift. So a once a year tune up is in order for all display types that are phosphor or lamp based." Lee Gallagher The LED's tend to drift more than the lamp based making it harder to retain a calibration. Neither calibrator says anything about a coating "flaking" or "coming off over time", that the LED's are incapable of being accurate, how much the LED's shift, or if the shift is even detectable by the human eye. Only that it's the nature of the phosphors to shift or decay. Don't mean to sound rude and you could probably care less but, are you aware that even though you've brought this to the attention of the forum at least twice, you personally, come across as completely ignorant regarding the matter?
post #65 of 94
With all due respect to Derek, we really don't know how stable they will be with time. I have only seen a couple of reports of re-cals and they have not convinced me either way. Too many unknowns. My guess is that they will be more stable than lamps, but we just don't know. Anyone who pretends to is just guessing.
post #66 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeachComber View Post

http://www.luminus.com/content1034

"Unlike conventional LEDs, which emit into an epoxy-based encapsulant, PhlatLight LEDs emit directly into air, resulting in significantly longer lifetimes. PhlatLight LEDs have very low failure rates and median lifetimes that are well above 100,000 hours under extreme, high current operating conditions.

Luminus has instituted a two year warranty for its PhlatLight products - a first of its kind for LEDs in the projection TV industry. The benefits of Luminus' two year warranty apply to PhlatLight devices used for display and illumination applications. "

365x2x24 = 17,250 Hours Warranty on a device that they say will last over 100,000 hours.... or 17% of what they claim.....

Things that make you go hmmmmmm...... and wonder why its not warranted longer if they believe their own statements.

Lets see, if it will stay lit for 100.000 hours.....and they will only warranty it for 17% of that....what else could change over 2 years?

hmmmm

Do any of the DLP vendors warranty their DMDs for more than a year? But they claim that they will last over 100,000 hours. Your argument is inconsistent with how the industry works.
post #67 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tow Mater View Post

After reviewing the information you've provided to support your position, I don't understand how you've come to the conclusions you have? How you can read what these two calibrators posted and walk away saying that the color shift is not correctable by yearly calibrations? Do you consider your other sources to be more knowledgeable on the issue than the ones you've provided? Might they shed more light on why you so confidently make the assertions that you do? derekjsmith "LED's will drift over time just like any other display type. LCD's with CCFL use phosphor, new LCD with LED use phosphor, Plasma uses phosphor and traditional CRT's. Lamped based systems xenon or UHP will also drift. So a once a year tune up is in order for all display types that are phosphor or lamp based." Lee Gallagher The LED's tend to drift more than the lamp based making it harder to retain a calibration. Neither calibrator says anything about a coating "flaking" or "coming off over time", that the LED's are incapable of being accurate, how much the LED's shift, or if the shift is even detectable by the human eye. Only that it's the nature of the phosphors to shift or decay. Don't mean to sound rude and you could probably care less but, are you aware that even though you've brought this to the attention of the forum at least twice, you personally, come across as completely ignorant regarding the matter?

You forgot to include this comment by Lee:

"I've owned a Samsung DLP for 6 years (2 bulbs), and the color temperature has shifted very little over this time. Certainly less than detectable by the human eye."

So the consensus I'm seeing is that calibrators are saying that any light source will drift and they recommend yearly calibration to be exact. But that LED's drift more than lamps, and that you may be able to get a half decade on a lamp before the drift becomes detectable by the human eye.

This is my problem with the recommended "yearly" calibration that most calibrators like to suggest. First, on most typical sets, my experience has been calibrators can only get within +/- 50K on D6500K (and on some sets much worse). It's a limitation of a set. So what if a set drifts 50K in one year. Most people probably need a special instrument to even detect that it has shifted.

No if it shifts +/- 500K, you might see that, but most sets don't drift that much in a years time.

I've just never bought into this yearly schedule unless you have an ultra high end set with better tolerances than most mass market sets. And you have an eye good enough to see a small amount of drift.

How much does LED DLP drift in a year vs. lamp DLP? That would be interesting to know. If it is 50K for lamp and 75K for LED, then the difference doesn't matter much. If it is 50K vs 200K, then maybe its a problem.
post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Only for some models, like the early Samsung lamp based sets with the repeatedly failing color wheels and light tunnels...or the first gen Mitsubishis with the capacitor problems. Others have been quite reliable, and the DMD itself has been probably the most reliable display device ever made.


Since this is the RPTV forum, the RPTV is implied in the DLP is dead statement. Of course it is still widely used for front projectors, because there really isn't a better technology yet to replace it for front projection.[/quote]

Then perhaps you should make the case that RPTV is dead. The same technologies are used for RPro and FPro for the most part. I would not make the case, but it is more precise with respect to your point. Of course it depends on your definition of dead.
post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by lcaillo View Post

With all due respect to Derek, we really don't know how stable they will be with time. I have only seen a couple of reports of re-cals and they have not convinced me either way. Too many unknowns. My guess is that they will be more stable than lamps, but we just don't know. Anyone who pretends to is just guessing.

LED based sets have been around since 2006, so there should be a pool of 3 years worth of data out there. It seems to me that should be enough to start drawing some conclusions.
post #70 of 94
They really have not sold in large quantities for much more than 2 years, and the market share for RPTV was declining during that period to the point that Samsung and others dropped the category. As I said before, I have trouble drawing conclusions because they never sold much in this market.
post #71 of 94
Regarding LEDs and colour drift here is an article that discusses it a bit:

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/L...2007-html.aspx

In the section titled 'The Long Life of the LED' they identify this:

"One of the main advantages of the LED technology�their extremely long operating life�causes an important issue: color drift. LEDs can operate for 50,000 hours or more and their luminous output will decline gradually to 70% of its nominal value (compared to 1,500 hours to sudden death for an incandescent lamp).

Unfortunately, during those 50,000 hours the CCT of a white LED will change�drifting toward the higher temperatures (toward blue) as the phosphors age. An RGB LED solution will suffer a similar malady, as the three-color emitters age at a different rate along different curves."

So yes LED light engines will drift in color, we just don't have enough data yet to surmise how quickly and by how much.

John
post #72 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_marin View Post

Regarding LEDs and colour drift here is an article that discusses it a bit:

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/L...2007-html.aspx

In the section titled 'The Long Life of the LED' they identify this:

"One of the main advantages of the LED technology�their extremely long operating life�causes an important issue: color drift. LEDs can operate for 50,000 hours or more and their luminous output will decline gradually to 70% of its nominal value (compared to 1,500 hours to sudden death for an incandescent lamp).

Unfortunately, during those 50,000 hours the CCT of a white LED will change�drifting toward the higher temperatures (toward blue) as the phosphors age. An RGB LED solution will suffer a similar malady, as the three-color emitters age at a different rate along different curves."

So yes LED light engines will drift in color, we just don't have enough data yet to surmise how quickly and by how much.

John

Good information. I'll bet most of us will have replaced these sets long before we see this happen to any noticeable degree. And we'll probably be replacing them with some new technology that hasn't even come to market yet!
post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

You forgot to include this comment by Lee:

"I've owned a Samsung DLP for 6 years (2 bulbs), and the color temperature has shifted very little over this time. Certainly less than detectable by the human eye."

I didn't and still don't see any reason to include the comment.
post #74 of 94
Hey lomarica, where'd ya go?! Any closer to making your decision yet? This place is awesome isn't it?! Probably got a slightly different response than you were looking for but, you sure got some good education on current RPTV DLP technology. I know I did. In case it wasn't painfully obvious, I picked up the 67" Sammy and am very happy with it, so far.
post #75 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_marin View Post

Regarding LEDs and colour drift here is an article that discusses it a bit:

http://www2.electronicproducts.com/L...2007-html.aspx

In the section titled 'The Long Life of the LED' they identify this:

"One of the main advantages of the LED technology�their extremely long operating life�causes an important issue: color drift. LEDs can operate for 50,000 hours or more and their luminous output will decline gradually to 70% of its nominal value (compared to 1,500 hours to sudden death for an incandescent lamp).

Unfortunately, during those 50,000 hours the CCT of a white LED will change�drifting toward the higher temperatures (toward blue) as the phosphors age. An RGB LED solution will suffer a similar malady, as the three-color emitters age at a different rate along different curves."

So yes LED light engines will drift in color, we just don't have enough data yet to surmise how quickly and by how much.

John

Very interesting article even if it is a bit over two and a half years old. It describes two methods of achieving white through LED technology.

1. ...White light can be obtained from an LED source by applying a phosphorous material coating on top of a blue or an ultraviolet emitter. The actual phosphorous material composition, its thickness, and its placement are currently the subject of extensive studies by all the major LED manufacturers.


2. ... There is another way to obtain white light from LEDs by accurately mixing the light from three color emitters: red, green and blue (RGB) in the right proportion to obtain not only a white light, but also the desired color temperature.

The LED technology developed by Luminous found in the Samsung models is based on method 2, but I bet this article is the root of this whole rumor about phospher coating on the LEDs used in these sets, because some LEDs do operate that way... just not the LEDs developed by Luminous for this application.

Regarding the uneven wear of the LEDs, the article notes research was being done at that time, it's possible current LEDs used are immune. Let's assume they are effected, perhaps that explains why Samsung has only rated these televisions for 60,000 hours when the LEDs themselves are rated at 100,000 hours? This is a very interesting discussion. I've asked Luminous for comment.

Let's assume the LEDs found in the Samsung models may be susceptible to color drift over time aren't we really blowing this out of proportion? In 2007 the author notes this will happen 'sometime within 50,000 hours' modern LEDs are rated for longer life than those found in the 1st generation Samsungs and they are capable of producing better contrast (this was discussed when Samsung introduced the 67" model in 2008) it's plausable the problem still exist, but let's say around half of the 60,000 hour point (30,000 hours/15 years) the drift is to a point that the set can no longer be calibrated to standard and the set needs service.

Well, the LEDs cost about $130 each (there are three of course). Service manual on the Samsung's include detailed instructions on how to replace the LEDs. Parts + labor should be less than $600 which.... Which would still be about 1/4 of the cost paid to buy the set new, but in 15 years who know's what we'll have as an option in the market....

Consider the cost of bulb replacement for non-LED displays (and the inevitable color wheel replacement cost) over a 30,000 hour period, consider phosphor wear issues with Plasma (includng potential burn-in as a result) and the backlight weakening issues with LCD. There is no perfect technology, but I believe when you add everything up LED DLP comes pretty close.
post #76 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post

Very interesting article even if it is a bit over two and a half years old. It describes two methods of achieving white through LED technology.

1. ...White light can be obtained from an LED source by applying a phosphorous material coating on top of a blue or an ultraviolet emitter. The actual phosphorous material composition, its thickness, and its placement are currently the subject of extensive studies by all the major LED manufacturers.


2. ... There is another way to obtain white light from LEDs by accurately mixing the light from three color emitters: red, green and blue (RGB) in the right proportion to obtain not only a white light, but also the desired color temperature.

The LED technology developed by Luminous found in the Samsung models is based on method 2, but I bet this article is the root of this whole rumor about phospher coating on the LEDs used in these sets, because some LEDs do operate that way... just not the LEDs developed by Luminous for this application.

Regarding the uneven wear of the LEDs, the article notes research was being done at that time, it's possible current LEDs used are immune. Let's assume they are effected, perhaps that explains why Samsung has only rated these televisions for 60,000 hours when the LEDs themselves are rated at 100,000 hours? This is a very interesting discussion. I've asked Luminous for comment.

Let's assume the LEDs found in the Samsung models may be susceptible to color drift over time aren't we really blowing this out of proportion? In 2007 the author notes this will happen 'sometime within 50,000 hours' modern LEDs are rated for longer life than those found in the 1st generation Samsungs and they are capable of producing better contrast (this was discussed when Samsung introduced the 67" model in 2008) it's plausable the problem still exist, but let's say around half of the 60,000 hour point (30,000 hours/15 years) the drift is to a point that the set can no longer be calibrated to standard and the set needs service.

Well, the LEDs cost about $130 each (there are three of course). Service manual on the Samsung's include detailed instructions on how to replace the LEDs. Parts + labor should be less than $600 which.... Which would still be about 1/4 of the cost paid to buy the set new, but in 15 years who know's what we'll have as an option in the market....

Consider the cost of bulb replacement for non-LED displays (and the inevitable color wheel replacement cost) over a 30,000 hour period, consider phosphor wear issues with Plasma (includng potential burn-in as a result) and the backlight weakening issues with LCD. There is no perfect technology, but I believe when you add everything up LED DLP comes pretty close.

I don't think you are getting that the color drift in the RGB cluster is basically linear and starts day one. It isn't like you use it for 10 years and then suddenly have color drift. It gradually happens each time the LED is lit. There is a different amount of drift on each of the three LED's, so your color scale becomes inaccurate and must be recalibrated. One manufacturer of LED's says 1% color drift per year, but didn't define what a year was (is it 24 hours x 365 days, or something less). If it is 1% per year with normal viewing habits, then at D6500k, 1% is 65K. On most consumer sets, you will only get +/- 50K (25K if you are lucky) on a pro calibration, so adding another 65K to that may put it in the realm of visible to the naked eye (D64 or D66). Of course, if they meant 9000 hours by their one year statement, then an average user may not need to recalibrate for many years.

It is also temperature sensitive. So say you calibrate your brand new set. Well, a year from now, you have some dust accumulate, the fans wear and slow down a bit and internal temperature increases, or whatever. Now they have drifted from the previous calibration, simply because of a rise in heat that can be caused by several factors, including aging of the LED's.

Another factor that can effect color accuracy is voltage level. If your power supply weakens with time, it can change the operating voltage of the LED, which will alter the output of each color, potentially to different degrees for each color. This can lead to poor color mixing and inaccurate color temp. On a lamp based set, the bulb would output less light, but the colors would still be mixed in the same proportion, so you still have color accuracy (as far as mixing colors), just not the right color temp.

I don't think bulb replacement on non-LED sets is as big a deal as you make it sound. Both my previous DLP sets got 8000+ hours on the bulb, so that is 3-4 bulb changes in 30,000 hours, which is about the same price as swapping out the three LED's. Color wheel can be an issue. I had one that did fail and another that was still running along. Even if you have to replace it once in 30000 hours, that is only another $250. So LED vs Lamp Based DLP, there may not be much of a difference between the two, as far as maintenance.

Like you said, no tech is perfect. I just don't think LED DLP is any better in that department than LCD, Plasma, or lamp based DLP.
post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

I don't think you are getting that the color drift in the RGB cluster is basically linear and starts day one. It isn't like you use it for 10 years and then suddenly have color drift. It gradually happens each time the LED is lit. There is a different amount of drift on each of the three LED's, so your color scale becomes inaccurate and must be recalibrated. One manufacturer of LED's says 1% color drift per year, but didn't define what a year was (is it 24 hours x 365 days, or something less). If it is 1% per year with normal viewing habits, then at D6500k, 1% is 65K. On most consumer sets, you will only get +/- 50K (25K if you are lucky) on a pro calibration, so adding another 65K to that may put it in the realm of visible to the naked eye (D64 or D66). Of course, if they meant 9000 hours by their one year statement, then an average user may not need to recalibrate for many years.

It is also temperature sensitive. So say you calibrate your brand new set. Well, a year from now, you have some dust accumulate, the fans wear and slow down a bit and internal temperature increases, or whatever. Now they have drifted from the previous calibration, simply because of a rise in heat that can be caused by several factors, including aging of the LED's.

Another factor that can effect color accuracy is voltage level. If your power supply weakens with time, it can change the operating voltage of the LED, which will alter the output of each color, potentially to different degrees for each color. This can lead to poor color mixing and inaccurate color temp. On a lamp based set, the bulb would output less light, but the colors would still be mixed in the same proportion, so you still have color accuracy (as far as mixing colors), just not the right color temp.

I don't think bulb replacement on non-LED sets is as big a deal as you make it sound. Both my previous DLP sets got 8000+ hours on the bulb, so that is 3-4 bulb changes in 30,000 hours, which is about the same price as swapping out the three LED's. Color wheel can be an issue. I had one that did fail and another that was still running along. Even if you have to replace it once in 30000 hours, that is only another $250. So LED vs Lamp Based DLP, there may not be much of a difference between the two, as far as maintenance.

Like you said, no tech is perfect. I just don't think LED DLP is any better in that department than LCD, Plasma, or lamp based DLP.

Fair enough... Considering the additional cost of the LED DLP displays these are good points which leaves us with the decreased rainbow effect advantage of LEDs and lack of moving parts being the only advantages really given to the LEDs. Those are things to consider... There are also features on the Diamond series Mitsubishi DLPs not found in the LEDs (e.g. Smooth120) which helps balance the playing field even more. The color accuracy issues with the Mitsubishi was a problem for me, but coming from a Ultravision CRT based Hitachi I would be lieing if I didn't say I miss the black levels of my CRT just a bit and no DLP set is going to make me extreemly happy in that department. Other aspects of picture quality do compensate.

No perfect tech... Fortunately Samsung & Mitsubishi's high-end DLP product offerings are pretty darn good.
post #78 of 94
Wouldn't LED also be faster than a mechanical iris for dynamic contrast? (I assume that is something they're leveraging in the Samsung 7 series...)
post #79 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmz76 View Post

Fair enough... Considering the additional cost of the LED DLP displays these are good points which leaves us with the decreased rainbow effect advantage of LEDs and lack of moving parts being the only advantages really given to the LEDs.

Don forget, Phlatlights are green! Unlike bulbs, Phlatlights contain no lead or mercury and use significantly less electricity. EDIT: You also get instant-on with the LED's.
post #80 of 94
Y'know there seems to be a perception that LEDs use dramatically less electricity than Lamp based DLPs when really it's almost a non-issue especially when you compare DLPs to much smaller plasma and LCDs. 50" flat panels use about 1.5 to 2 times as much electriciy as a 61" DLP.

Here are Crutchfield's estimates (6 hours of daily use at 10 cents per KWH):

Samsung ---- Power --- Power -- Monthly - Crutchfield's
Model # ------ On ---- Standby -- Cost --- Annual Cost

HL61A650 -- 186.94W - 0.50W --- $3.44 ---- $41.28
HL61A750 -- 156.29W - 0.59W --- $2.88 ---- $34.56

56 cents more per month...
post #81 of 94
$1k for a 50" DLP you bought 2.5 years ago is an excellent deal! Considering you can get the 61" LED DLP for around that price, or you used to be able to when they were on sale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Don't count on getting an LCD in exchange, at least not from Best Buy. I had a Best Buy PSP on a 50" Samsung DLP. The set just broke (November), and BB wouldn't even attempt a repair. They just "lemoned" it immediately.

Stores no longer carry them in the 50" size. So all the store wanted to do was give me a $1000 gift card, with the cheapest name brand 52" LCD costing $1600 (so $600 out of pocket). The cheapest name brand 46" was $1300 (so $300 out of pocket). Best Buy refused to switch from DLP to LCD. They said a PSP swap had to be DLP for DLP, LCD for LCD, Plasma for Plasma. If no DLP is available, you get a store credit. They won't give an LCD for a DLP, despite the warranty stating you get a comparable new TV (they claim no comparable set exists any longer).

Best Buy also told me that if the repair cost exceeded 50% of the junk out credit, then they wouldn't even attempt to repair the set. That is why mine was lemoned on repair attempt #1 (diagnosis was that a new light engine was needed). So any light engine replacement is going to cost over 50% of the store credit they would issue you ($1000 in my case, so any repair over $500 parts and labor would result in a lemon on a 50" DLP).

So with their PSP, it essentially will only cover a bulb replacement, color wheel failure, and maybe a digital/analog board failure. Just about anything else, or any combination of two will result in a junk out.

This was a replacement for a set I paid $3600 for about 2.5 years ago. I was only getting $1000 credit today. So if you buy a $1500 DLP now with a PSP, they won't be carrying any DLP's in less than a year. So if your set lemons two years from now, what do you think they are going to give you? Maybe $500 on a gift card towards the purchase of a new LCD?

DLP is dead. A service plan isn't really worth it, at least not at Best Buy. On the larger DLP's, you will pay $300 for a service plan that may net you $500 towards the purchase of a new TV 2-3 years down the road.

DLP = Disposable Light Projection
post #82 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin2 View Post

Y'know there seems to be a perception that LEDs use dramatically less electricity than Lamp based DLPs when really it's almost a non-issue especially when you compare DLPs to much smaller plasma and LCDs. 50" flat panels use about 1.5 to 2 times as much electriciy as a 61" DLP.

Here are Crutchfield's estimates (6 hours of daily use at 10 cents per KWH):

Samsung ---- Power --- Power -- Monthly - Crutchfield's
Model # ------ On ---- Standby -- Cost --- Annual Cost

HL61A650 -- 186.94W - 0.50W --- $3.44 ---- $41.28
HL61A750 -- 156.29W - 0.59W --- $2.88 ---- $34.56

56 cents more per month...


I only use around 100 watts with my 67" LED DLP set. Much less than what crutchfield lists for those smaller 61" sets.
post #83 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin2 View Post

Y'know there seems to be a perception that LEDs use dramatically less electricity than Lamp based DLPs when really it's almost a non-issue especially when you compare DLPs to much smaller plasma and LCDs. 50" flat panels use about 1.5 to 2 times as much electriciy as a 61" DLP.

Here are Crutchfield's estimates (6 hours of daily use at 10 cents per KWH):

Samsung ---- Power --- Power -- Monthly - Crutchfield's
Model # ------ On ---- Standby -- Cost --- Annual Cost

HL61A650 -- 186.94W - 0.50W --- $3.44 ---- $41.28
HL61A750 -- 156.29W - 0.59W --- $2.88 ---- $34.56

56 cents more per month...

True, both models are very energy efficient. However, if you compare the HL67A750 (same as 61") 83.38w (CNET) Tuned to the HL67A510 200w (Samsung) it highlights the LED's efficiency a little better.
post #84 of 94
My Kill-A-Watt meter also comes up with lower power readings for the A650. Just wanted to illustrate the difference that Crutchfield came up with. No doubt a full calibration on either set or playing with the LED power setting can change those figures. Anyway, DLP humbles the flat panels when it comes to efficiency.
post #85 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quentin2 View Post

My Kill-A-Watt meter also comes up with lower power readings for the A650. Just wanted to illustrate the difference that Crutchfield came up with. No doubt a full calibration on either set or playing with the LED power setting can change those figures. Anyway, DLP humbles the flat panels when it comes to efficiency.

Indeed...
post #86 of 94
As a current owner of a Sam HLS6188 DLP with a recent light engine replacement, I am completely disheartened reading this thread as I thought when my trusty Mitsu 35" TV died I would be purchasing something I hopefully would own for 10 years with just some bulb replacements.

I haven't been on this forum in a while but last Friday had my light engine changed and will be having the Tech Service Mgr. calling me tomorrow as I'm experiencing some color problems. I will say purchasing an extended warranty would be essential with ANY new technology TV. Unless like all you guys, just throw away and buy a new one.

It looks like I should start complaining to Samsung now because according to you all, it will be lots of repairs with this type of set.

I also chose HD DVD and showing my age will say I picked Beta over VHS years ago.

I didn't consider Plasma at the time because they were rumored to run hot and would lose 1/2 their brightness and contrast within the first 5 years and they are a throw away TV. DLP looked like a winner with just the periodic bulb replacement. No one was really talking up LCD and the time either.

So what's a regular guy like me, apparently unlike most of you who have lots of disposable income, to do when trying to find something that will last "at least 8 or 9 years???? I'm paid by the hour, buy and pay on credit. I work very hard for my money and I'm frustrated.

What have people been doing over in Japan or China where HDTV has been out for a while. Are they going through all this stuff too with all the different technologies and failures??
post #87 of 94
Did you also pick DIVX over DVD back in 98/99?
post #88 of 94
i am considering buying a used 56" 720p Samsung TV from a friend dont know the model number but it was made in 2006 i think he said he replaced the bulb last fall sometime...from what i have been reading on this thread this sound like a bad idea to invest in something like this am i right? is there a price that i could get it for that would seem reasonable with all these problems being brougt out in this thread or should i just say forget it and look for an LCD tv?
thanks
post #89 of 94
If it's free, and you can move it yourself, than I'd take a used dlp. Otherwise, I'd get LCD. Just moving dlps often results in problems as their innards get bumped around and don't work correctly when you try to start them again.

I have one, never even move it an inch, I climb around to get to the back to vacuum, etc. Way to delicate a technology.
post #90 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

Did you also pick DIVX over DVD back in 98/99?


Stayed out of that one......LOL
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