BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 53

considering two of these vs one of the BIC PL200's

does anyone know the difference between the F12 and PL200 other than the wattage?

I do not know much but my assumption would be that 2 F-12's would give more than one PL-200 and I may be wrong. I personally thought that an extra 100w wouldn't be a world of a difference and for the price of one PL-200 you can almost get 2 F-12's, so that is the route I took. They seam very similarly designed and if the PL-200 was rated that well the F-12 would be as well just in a lesser class. The reviews and demand for the F-12 is what got me and I knew I would get great value in it, but keeping in mind it is a budget sub, figured I could just add the second if needed instead of buying one more expensive sub.

The pl-200 goes lower.

That would be my assumption as the frequency response rating is 22Hz for the PL-200 as opposed to 25Hz for the F-12. Now I do not know what that means cause I have seen charts and measurements for both that showed them digging lower than 20Hz so again I don't really know much about these things.

I still wonder how huge of a difference there is between them, they seam similarly designed with the same kind of box, woofer, and amp. It is almost twice the cost so I would expect one on one the PL-200 to perform better(it is their top end) but other than the shiny top and bottom and extra 100w I would love to know more. I would love to be able to open them up and see if maybe the PL=200 has more internal bracing, maybe that woofer has a bigger magnet or something. Wish there were people that had both to let us know.

So I guess the question is still up in the air and will be hard to answer. Will 3Hz lower response and 100w more power from the PL-200 be better than going with 2 F-12 for around the same $$? I personally went through this decision myself and decided to save money getting the F-12 and if needed just add a second and be around the price of one PL-200. I would still think the performance of the on PL-200 is obviously better than one F-12 but how can it beat 2? I also know it isn't that simple but that's what I went with in my decision.

It will go lower louder!
Btw you're starting to sound like a F12 fanboy!

How does he sound like an F12 fanboy? He is asking a legitimate question and I'm kind of curious as to what others think... I would assume that 2 F12's would be better even though they do not go quite as low.
I like my F12 quite a bit... I guess you could call me a "fan" of it. Does that make me a "fanboy?"

I've never seen a PL-200 up close and personal, but from the pictures the two certainly do look very similar... same silver cone, wide foam surround, back plate and port appear to be nearly identical. But the PL-200 has a genuine BASH amp while the F-12 has an amp "designed by BASH." Has anyone who has researched these two know of any difference in weight? Just an off-hand guess, but it's possible that the F-12 may have been designed to be a less expensive copy of the PL-200.

Thats almost what it appears to be as the two subs look identical out side of the color. its as if they bumped up the wattage and rebranded the PL-200 as a higher end version.

hard to tell with out a real review

Exactly what I was getting at but got called a fanboy!! That is why I said without having both and being able to open them up there is nothing to go on except assume you pay more for the Acoustech name(being their top of the line) with the shiny piano black top and bottom and the extra 100w of power. There could be more internal bracing and the sub could be a different beast all together in the PL-200.

Jebus... Now you guys are just making crap up. Have you looked at the description of both models?
Different drivers, frequency response and sensitivity level. Not to mention different amps and overall weight.
The F12 is good bang for the buck but it's no PL-200.

Nobody is making stuff up. It is obvious the PL-200 has a different more powerful amp and thus would leave you to believe a more powerful, heavier(bigger magnet) sub, thus the lower frequency and different sensitivity.

What doesn't change is the fact that the F-12 looks to be a budget version built on the same principles and design. I would expect to get a better sub in the PL-200 as it is their top of the line and cost a decent amount more than the F-12 but that isn't what is questioned. What is questioned is will 2 of the lower end sub be better than one of the higher end. Because of their similarities it is a tough call, not like we are trying to figure out if 2 f-12's would outperform say an empire(we all know the answer to that)!!

A PL-200 is similar in size and closer in class with a slight increase in specs, price, and performance but is one enough to outperform 2 F-12's?

Just a guess, but I suspect that two subs would only be beneficial in a larger room... more surface area equals more air moved on those low notes. But having two subs would not improve any deficiency in frequency response or its response curve or its accuracy... which seems to be the greatest problem with most subs.

+1

Having two subs will decrease the number of nulls in the room and will potentially increase output at the subs' given frequencies, but it won't magically create frequencies that just one sub is not able to reach on its own.

Just ordered the F-12 from provantage.com for $182 shipped!

Just bought this sub for $180. I hope I get it soon.

I have recently set up my first Home Theater, so I'm pretty excited about getting this sub.

I have Onkyo TX-SR 608 AVR with Polk Monitor 40 (front), Monitor 30 (rear) and CS 2 (Center) as my surround setup. I know, it's nothing fancy, just basic stuff. I plan to upgrade with Monitor 60s down the line and move these back.

I would love to get some feedback on how this Sub will sound with this setup? Also, what kind of wiring do I need? I have the speaker wires and subwoofer cable I bought from Monoprice. I have some family coming over for Christmas, and would to have it all set-up by then - and I would hate to not have the right wires when it's here. So, please help me out.

Thanks.

You're doing the right thing. The M40's should be fine for a smaller room. If and when you move up to the 60's you'll be able to enjoy louder action flicks. The CS2 center will last forever.


Just ask when you're ready. You can buy 18 Ga wire if it isn't too long, but 14 would be best. Generally the fronts are close to the receiver anyway and the longer runs going to the surrounds carry a less powerful signal. You can use any coaxial cable with male RCA plugs on both ends for the sub. They sell heavy duty sub cables but any coaxial audio cable will work.

When you first setup the F-12 be aware that the volume control is very sensitive. Start with it set between 9-10 o'clock (only about a quarter of the way up).

Thanks Rob. Much appreciated. I will set the volume to what you suggested. I believe I have the 16ga. wire - but once I have the sub - I'll get back to the forum to ask for more info and by that time - I should be able to go through this entire thread.

Here's a quick guide for distances/speaker wire gauge you can use:


Speaker Impedance 8 Ohm Load 4 Ohm Load
Wire Gauge Distance (ft) Distance (ft)
18 AWG 10 5
16 AWG 20 10
14 AWG 35 18
12 AWG 60 30
10 AWG 100 50

From here: http://www.audioholics.com/education...er-cable-gauge

EDIT: table didn't stay formatted, check the link.

Thanks. That answers some of the questions.

A small part of me is having a buyer's remorse, but I'm not sure if I should feel that way.

Amazon and Newegg is selling Polk PSW505 for $210 shipped. Both sites have received 100s of 5 star ratings.

Should I be feeling this way? Or is Bic really the better sub?

Most of the lower end Polk subs are junk. Not quite sure about that particular model.

Generally this is true about the lesser Polks being not so good. The 505 does have its fans however. The Polk might be a bit better if you mostly listen to music (which imho is where the F-12 falls short) however you won't be disappointed with the F-12 if you mostly watch movies or play games.

For those of you who own this sub, concerning music:

1. Have you tweaked it with your receiver/sub controls and it still doesn't sound good?

2. What music have you tried on the F-12 where it doesn't sound good?

I currently have a Velodyne ImpactMini which sounds great for the music I enjoy (99% eurodance, e.g. Cascada) ONLY after the sub was tweaked from the receiver and sub controls - out the box, with no adjustments, it was very harsh. No matter what I do, and I really don't listen to this type of music, rap sounds awful on the Velodyne. I just ordered the F-12 from amazon, and now I'm a bit concerned, since it will have more music duty then movie duty.

Unlike a few on this thread I really enjoy mine for music! I listen to a range of music, some rock especially any BR music/movies, some electro, dance, alternative, hard to describe as it's not really house or dance music but that's how much of it is labeled. I don't know if it's my setup, my 4 mains are capable of 20hz - 20khz although I have them set to small, maybe it's that I got the placement and setup of the F12 just right for my room, I don't know but it sounds great for both music and movies, don't do gaming. I have also watched a few TV shows of big band music lately, violins, brass, the whole deal and it sounded real good with that as well, even though it was not the preferred DTS HD Master audio or Dolby True HD, just broadcast quality. Picked up all the plucking of the cello and the low notes sounded great!
Bottom line, don't worry about if you'll like it for music until you get it and see for yourself.

Thanks ... I'll see what I can do once it arrives. I remember I must have spent three hours tweaking the receiver's equalizer and db level along with the settings on the ImpactMini and placement positions until all the variables lined up and I got the sound I was looking for pretty much everywhere within the room that it's in.

I also have no problem with mine for music but again I came from a Dayton SUB-120 that was very boomy with music and would drown out the front speakers. I do not have this problem with the F-12 at all and was pleasantly surprised with how good I thought it sounded. Again this is my opinion only coming from the Dayton with nothing else to compare it to so I second his statement above that you will have to see/hear for yourself. Only you know if you will be happy with it.

Oh well, no big deal. It seems like it's a little better than Bic - at least the reviews on Amazon and Newegg suggest so - and since rest of my is all Polk - I didn't mind payin' an extra $25 to get the Polk Sub. Also, dealing with Amazon is so much easier than any online retailer I know.

I'm still pretty excited about the Bic Sub though.

Yea, I don't listen to music much through my AVR. I bought it through provantage - and they shipped it already - so there is little I can do about that now. I don't think I can return it without payin' shipping cost. Or can I?

Don't try to second guess yourself. Don't worry about whether you might have made the wrong choice until you actually get your sub and have a chance to work with it for a while. The F-12 is a good product and you will not be disappointed. Heck, it was my third sub and at the time was the best I'd had so far. It wasn't until half a year later when I saw a real bargain on a different one that I decided to upgrade to a different sub. Many people are very happy with their F-12, as should be obvious from most of the comments in this thread.


Don't bother! Like I said above, try out your new sub with the rest of your system... move it around, run some different material thru it. If after a while... a few weeks or months - if you feel you'd maybe like to move on to something else then you should not have any trouble finding a buyer for your F-12. I think it was only a couple weeks after I'd made up my mind that I sold mine for about $30 less than I paid for it and dropped it off to someone in a nearby city while visiting one of my kids. AFAIK he's very happy with it.

Yea, I know what you mean. The reason I got Bic was because of this thread and the glowing reviews it got. So, you're right - I shouldn't be second guessing myself. Plus, this is my first sub - I'm sure I'm going to love it.

I think I'm gettin' it on Monday-Tuesday through FedEx. Pretty excited.

Mine shipped exactly the same way but from provantage!

Postal service, has got no respect these days. Wether USPS or UPS.