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BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 78

post #2311 of 2834
Thanks for the response, Tom Ames. I'd also imagine having two subs as opposed to one will help achieve a smoother (flatter) frequency response in your listening room, thus being another benefit of having the two BIC's instead of the one Legend (even though the latter sounds better for music).
post #2312 of 2834
Sorry, searched the thread and didn't find a difinitive answer, but...
if I already have a H-100 the move to a F-12 would be lateral or only marginally better? Not $200 better though, right?
post #2313 of 2834
You have here a long time lurker and a first time poster

I recently acquired a FH6-LCR center, followed by a F12, both from parts express. The vast amount of information I used to decide on the F12 was accumulated here on this thread and I wanted to thank those of you who shared your experience with this sub. Here are my own impressions with some background.

I originally stumbled upon BIC looking to replace a blown center speaker for a PC 5.1 system (Logitech Z680) which is being used in my Home Theater instead of using it with my PC station. The listening area extends about 12 feet by 12 feet, although the width of the living area is about 12 feet by 25 feet. Due to this small area the Z680 served my purposes well. Or so I thought.

The Z680 comes with an 8” front firing woofer, paired with one massive port in the back cranking out 188 watts RMS. This being my first experience with a subwoofer of any kind, I am not sure if this unit could be considered a ‘true’ subwoofer, despite it being able to crank out some really thunderous bass. After all, it IS designed to be used with a PC. I have always left it on the lowest possible setting due to just how much bass the unit produces. I always thought that was kind of bizarre- the inability to turn up the bass level without irritating the neighbors and/or destroying the walls. Now having read this thread in its entirety (yes, really), I understand that this is what the audio enthusiasts refers to as ‘boomy’ bass. Nonetheless, I was content with the Z680’s performance in my primary home theater set up for many years.

A few days after picking up a FH6-LCR to replace the blown center, I also picked up a used receiver (Onkyo TX-SR506) from a friend who no longer needed the unit so he just gave it to me. Sure it’s a few years old, but can't beat free. As I was hooking everything up, I discovered that the Z680 subwoofer would not work unless hooked up with the receiver/pod/whatever that controls the Z680. While I was totally stoked to use the Onkyo receiver, I could not use it and have LFE of any kind without picking up a subwoofer with a ‘sub out’. I tried running a 5.0 set for a few days with the Onkyo powering everything, but no way I could put up with that. Soon thereafter, I was once again running the Z680 receiver/pod/whatever to have a 5.1 setup. But I really wanted to use the Onkyo, and thus, started looking for a subwoofer. Enter the F12.

My initial impression of the F12 was man, this thing is HUGE! The metal looking grill is identical to the other Formula units BIC offers, which has a chrome type of color, which looks absolutely stunning with the black lacquer the rest of the enclosure is painted in. After hooking everything up, I ran Audyssey. Not surprisingly, it set up the gain to -9 (it also set the gain for the FH6-LCR to exactly -9). The other 4 satellites, including the 2 fronts, are the Z680 satellites, each of which are set at a gain of -2. After a lot of fine-tuning, I settled on a gain of -5 on the receiver for the F12, and 4 behind the subwoofer itself, with a 0 degree phase. I tried 3 crossover settings: 120Hz, 100Hz and 80Hz, and 80Hz sounds the best to my ears. The F12 did take a few days to ‘break in’- I know this for a fact, as I become aware of a ‘noticeable’ tighter overall bass all of a sudden 2 weeks into owning this sub. And oh man! What a difference compared to the Z680’s sub! The bass is so much tighter (controlled?), is shorter and has more powerful bursts, and further, I am able to turn it up significantly before bothering my walls or my neighbors! I couldn’t be happier

With these settings and in my fairly small listening area, LFE in both movies and music sounds very good, very full, and I can actually FEEL those really low non directional frequencies which has added an entirely new dimension to the listening experience. The deep rumbling sound tracks in movies in particular has really taken on a new persona which I was not familiar with before.

I did not do a sub crawl and opted to leave the F12 between the left main and the TV for aesthetical purposes. I am considering a second F12, to be placed in between the TV and the right main, not necessary for more bass, but for aesthetical purposes to ‘even out’ the total appearance. However, this will have to wait until I replace the 4 remaining Z680 satellites which I am currently using, the fronts with a pair of FH-6T towers and the rears with a pair of FH-65B bookshelves.

post #2314 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerCreep View Post

Sorry, searched the thread and didn't find a difinitive answer, but...
if I already have a H-100 the move to a F-12 would be lateral or only marginally better? Not $200 better though, right?

It's unlikely there would be much of a difference. If it was me I wouldn't do it.
post #2315 of 2834
Here's my setup:

POLK AUDIO
2 RTi A3's (Fronts)
2 FXi A4's (Surrounds)
CSi A6 (Center)

Room is 15 x 20. Denon AVR-591.

Usage 60% XBox, 30% Blu-ray/TV, 10% music

I was intrigued with the idea of going dual F-12's but really know very little about subs (I currently have an old Infinity 8" that performs OK).

Given my setup, any recommendations on whether the 2 F-12's is a good idea or would it be better to spend more on a single, better sub?
post #2316 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intimdtr77 View Post

Even after running my MCACC setup again it still changed the fronts back to large. Is that a flaw of the rcvr?

just wanted to let you know that there could be something else affecting your sub output. i'm running the F12 from a pioneer vsx 1121-k. after running the MCACC, the front and center were set to large and sub to "yes." i got no power to the sub, it wouldn't get a signal and never turn on.

however, if you have the fronts set to large, make sure the sub is set to "plus." or you could change all your speakers to small and sub to yes. this was the trick for me.

i wasn't aware that there was a "plus" option with the sub. i just figured yes or no.
post #2317 of 2834
Still enjoying my new subwoofa.

I just ordered a Pioneer VSX-1121-K Receiver,

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PU...ers/VSX-1121-K

Should be a pretty good upgrade from my current one. Hopefully I get it Friday or Monday.
post #2318 of 2834
Just ordered the F12, can't wait to replace my powered 10" Sony sub lol.
post #2319 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertw11 View Post

Just ordered the F12, can't wait to replace my powered 10" Sony sub lol.

It will be a good day.

I had the volume on 5 on the sub, after doing advance MCACC with my new receiver, it told me it was too high. I had to adjust it to 3, but its still booms good.
post #2320 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrHnky View Post

just wanted to let you know that there could be something else affecting your sub output. i'm running the F12 from a pioneer vsx 1121-k. after running the MCACC, the front and center were set to large and sub to "yes." i got no power to the sub, it wouldn't get a signal and never turn on.

however, if you have the fronts set to large, make sure the sub is set to "plus." or you could change all your speakers to small and sub to yes. this was the trick for me.

i wasn't aware that there was a "plus" option with the sub. i just figured yes or no.

What I ended up doing was adjusting the sub output in the VSX-1020 that I have. I think it is at -3 instead of -6 now after the MCACC. What a difference! The whole house shakes on 5 at the sub!
post #2321 of 2834
Ordered the F12 yesterday after reading this thread (most of it) and reviews on Amazon. I debated over buying another powered sub or going separate amp and passive sub but based on my usage, I figured I would give the F12 a try.

The reason for my lack of love for the powered sub:

JBL PWS1000 - after two years amp failed.

Polk DSW Pro 600 - amp failed a month shy of two years

I am not a "hip-hop" guy and don't play movies in our media room "crazy loud". When the Polk guys had me check the DSW I recognized that the amps leave a lot to be desired. Great driver, cheap amp.

So do I expect the F-12 to be different? No. But I have not read about mass failures and it has been on the market since 2009. Also, it is not $500 like the damn Polk.
post #2322 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by bifftannen View Post

Here's my setup:

POLK AUDIO
2 RTi A3's (Fronts)
2 FXi A4's (Surrounds)
CSi A6 (Center)

Room is 15 x 20. Denon AVR-591.

Usage 60% XBox, 30% Blu-ray/TV, 10% music

I was intrigued with the idea of going dual F-12's but really know very little about subs (I currently have an old Infinity 8" that performs OK).

Given my setup, any recommendations on whether the 2 F-12's is a good idea or would it be better to spend more on a single, better sub?

I'm spending my money on a single 15". Our rooms are similar in size. Still not sure what I'm buying.
post #2323 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch0922 View Post

Ordered the F12 yesterday after reading this thread (most of it) and reviews on Amazon. I debated over buying another powered sub or going separate amp and passive sub but based on my usage, I figured I would give the F12 a try.

The reason for my lack of love for the powered sub:

JBL PWS1000 - after two years amp failed.

Polk DSW Pro 600 - amp failed a month shy of two years

I am not a "hip-hop" guy and don't play movies in our media room "crazy loud". When the Polk guys had me check the DSW I recognized that the amps leave a lot to be desired. Great driver, cheap amp.

So do I expect the F-12 to be different? No. But I have not read about mass failures and it has been on the market since 2009. Also, it is not $500 like the damn Polk.

I just got a set of BIC V1220s to replace my single F12. Upon receipt, one of the V1220s was not working. I took it apart and found that the negative wire to the speaker was not connected. While in there, we took a gander at the amp from the inside and it looks pretty stout. Its not the exact same as the F12 amp, but its pretty similar. I have not taken apart my F12 to see the amp, but if its like the the one in the V1220s I don't foresee it being junk...I've had the F12 for about 7 months and no issues. i use it quite a lot, as in I watch several movies a week and listen to music fairly loud quite a bit.
post #2324 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcnitro07 View Post

I just got a set of BIC V1220s to replace my single F12. Upon receipt, one of the V1220s was not working. I took it apart and found that the negative wire to the speaker was not connected. While in there, we took a gander at the amp from the inside and it looks pretty stout. Its not the exact same as the F12 amp, but its pretty similar. I have not taken apart my F12 to see the amp, but if its like the the one in the V1220s I don't foresee it being junk...I've had the F12 for about 7 months and no issues. i use it quite a lot, as in I watch several movies a week and listen to music fairly loud quite a bit.

+1

We're still waiting on you to post your impressions in the Omaha GTG thread .

Why was the champion F12 replaced?
post #2325 of 2834
Just picked up my f12, and I am planning on running mcacc on my pioneer 1021k. So just a quick question, I am hooked up via "sub in" on the sub, what do I set the crossover and phase to? Also there is a switch that states what kind of receiver I have, which is a 7.1 receiver and I am running a 7.1 setup, do I switch that to 7.1, pro logic, or is that not matter when using sub in?

I will apologize in advance, this is my first sub that has anything more than the "sub in" input.

Regards,
Rob
post #2326 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

+1

We're still waiting on you to post your impressions in the Omaha GTG thread .

Why was the champion F12 replaced?

MEH....I've never filled out the "comments" section on a survey, only filled in the bubbles :P

I was pretty busy when I returned, and its not fresh any more lol
post #2327 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertw11 View Post

Just picked up my f12, and I am planning on running mcacc on my pioneer 1021k. So just a quick question, I am hooked up via "sub in" on the sub, what do I set the crossover and phase to? Also there is a switch that states what kind of receiver I have, which is a 7.1 receiver and I am running a 7.1 setup, do I switch that to 7.1, pro logic, or is that not matter when using sub in?

I will apologize in advance, this is my first sub that has anything more than the "sub in" input.

Regards,
Rob

What I've been told is to turn the cross over as high as it will go and let the receiver adjust the LPF. Phase should be at 0 and use the left side (digital receiver)
post #2328 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwarny View Post

+1

We're still waiting on you to post your impressions in the Omaha GTG thread .

Why was the champion F12 replaced?

Link to thread?
post #2329 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by allbaugh_04 View Post

Link to thread?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ight=omaha+gtg
post #2330 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertw11 View Post

Just picked up my f12, and I am planning on running mcacc on my pioneer 1021k. So just a quick question, I am hooked up via "sub in" on the sub, what do I set the crossover and phase to? Also there is a switch that states what kind of receiver I have, which is a 7.1 receiver and I am running a 7.1 setup, do I switch that to 7.1, pro logic, or is that not matter when using sub in?

I will apologize in advance, this is my first sub that has anything more than the "sub in" input.

Regards,
Rob

Hello I'm new to the sub to, but from what I've read on this thread you are correct have it in sub in and the switch that has 5.1-6.1-7.1 set it on that. What that will do is shut off the subwoofer internal control and let the receiver do all the work of sending the low frequency to the subwoofer. The pro logic is when you have old receiver that doesn't control the low frequency well so the subwoofer would do the job of controlling it. Just in case set the crossover frequency on the subwoofer to its maximum, but you don't actually need to do it because thats what the switch is supposed to do but just in case do it. anyone can correct me if I'm wrong I'm new to this as well your advice is really help full.
post #2331 of 2834
The phase set it to 0
post #2332 of 2834
Gotcha, I'll set everything to every ones recommendation, phase 0, crossover max, then to 7.1, and finish it of by running MCACC on my 1021k again. Thanks for the quick responses.
post #2333 of 2834
Correct no problem
post #2334 of 2834
Atm I have the volume at 4, phase set to 0, crossover to 80, and pro logic on lol. When I get home I will make the changes and see what MCACC comes up with. Currently I believe the receiver set the level to -3db if I'm not mistaken.

I still don't understand why the owners manual doesn't really specify if the cross over or if the 7.1/pro logic settings have any effect when using the "sub in" input.
post #2335 of 2834
So I found a pair of old sony bookshelf speakers in the trash a few houses down from my apartment. Decided to use them as front heights. After I ran my Audyssey setup again, I realized I had my F12 sounded much better now than it did before.

I previously ran Audyssey when I first got my sub, then about two months afterwards, expecting this to be plenty of break-in time. It's been sounding great and all, but last night I was feeling more bass than before, as it seems to be tighter and more direct. I've had it for 7 months now, and realize that it might now finally be fully broken in.

So now, not only do I have front heights setup I also have my F12 sounding better than ever. Awesome night. Ha.
post #2336 of 2834
I bought the F12 today and hope to get it next week. I only use it to watch movies only. I hope it will blow my balls and brain away.

I am a proud owner of the JBL twin tower and the center speaker today. It was a great upgrade.
post #2337 of 2834
Set the phase to 0, crossover max, volume to 4, and switch to 7.1. I ran MCACC and it set the sub to -7.5db, previously I have the crossover at 80, phase 0, and set to pro logic, MCACC set the sub to -3db.

Is -7.5 to low?
post #2338 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch0922 View Post


So do I expect the F-12 to be different? No. But I have not read about mass failures and it has been on the market since 2009. Also, it is not $500 like the damn Polk.

So many good good subs in the $500 range right now, I would not even consider the Polk.
post #2339 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertw11 View Post

Set the phase to 0, crossover max, volume to 4, and switch to 7.1. I ran MCACC and it set the sub to -7.5db, previously I have the crossover at 80, phase 0, and set to pro logic, MCACC set the sub to -3db.

Is -7.5 to low?

That's up to you!

MCACC set it there based on it's measurements. If you had the sub's volume set lower, it likely would have added some to the receiver's sub level (but not always -- at least, not with Audessey, which I've found to be in need of several tweaks after it's run). Use some favorite music/movies to adjust to your liking.
post #2340 of 2834
I'll lower the volume and run MCACC again just to see what happens, thanks for the answering my question though.
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