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BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 85

post #2521 of 2724
8/20/12 at 6:55pm
I just received the 2 F12's i ordered from amazon, 6 polk rti6's (2 for front, 2 mid, 2 rear surrounds for 7.2, got em cheap) and a Polk CSIa6 center. I cant wait to hook these things up! I am undecided on what receiver to go with. I am leaning towards a Denon AVR2312CI. Anyone out there have a similar setup? Thoughts?
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post #2522 of 2724
9/29/12 at 6:27pm
Is there something wrong with my sub? I'm VERY underwhelmed by the F12. I just got it the other day. Its hooked up to my new Denon 2113ci receiver. First of all, while doing the Audyssey calibration I have to turn the sub to about 6.5 before the mic will pick it up. It keeps saying Ambient noise is too high or level is too low. After running Audyssey at about 6.5 level settings on the sub and listening to music I just don't have much bass. If I crank it up to 10, its ok but not what I expected. My house is a split level/split foyer so the kitchen, living room and dining room are essentially one big room, also have vaulted ceilings so I'm not sure how much that effects the sound. Listening to the bulit in Pandora on the receiver with the Skrillex station I figured my house would completely rattle...but not so much...even turning the knob up to 10. I have it on Pro logic like the manual says if using the sub-in input. Tomorrow I'm going to borrow my brother's 12" Klipsch sub and see how it compares. (not sure on the model, its only a year or so old and I know it has a digital display on it.)

BTW previously I had my old Logitech Z680 5.1 computer speakers hooked up to my TV via optical. Its rated at 505w(188w) for the sub (8") and I'm especially not impressed with the F12 over that one.
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post #2523 of 2724
9/29/12 at 7:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350f View Post

Is there something wrong with my sub? I'm VERY underwhelmed by the F12. I just got it the other day. Its hooked up to my new Denon 2113ci receiver. First of all, while doing the Audyssey calibration I have to turn the sub to about 6.5 before the mic will pick it up. It keeps saying Ambient noise is too high or level is too low. After running Audyssey at about 6.5 level settings on the sub and listening to music I just don't have much bass. If I crank it up to 10, its ok but not what I expected. My house is a split level/split foyer so the kitchen, living room and dining room are essentially one big room, also have vaulted ceilings so I'm not sure how much that effects the sound. Listening to the bulit in Pandora on the receiver with the Skrillex station I figured my house would completely rattle...but not so much...even turning the knob up to 10. I have it on Pro logic like the manual says if using the sub-in input. Tomorrow I'm going to borrow my brother's 12" Klipsch sub and see how it compares. (not sure on the model, its only a year or so old and I know it has a digital display on it.)
BTW previously I had my old Logitech Z680 5.1 computer speakers hooked up to my TV via optical. Its rated at 505w(188w) for the sub (8") and I'm especially not impressed with the F12 over that one.

i would post this in the audyssey or denon receiver thread. i have the bic f12 and have the knob wayyyyy down low at around 1.5, audyssey set it at -2.5

so i upped the sub to +3 on the receiver and that thing shakes the room
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post #2524 of 2724
9/30/12 at 1:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350f View Post

Is there something wrong with my sub? I'm VERY underwhelmed by the F12.

Here are the two most common configuration problems that people have:

1) What did Audyssey determine to be the sub channel level? If a very low negative number, turn down the gain (volume) on the sub and rerun Audyssey until it's close to 0db, even if you have to rerun Audyssey multiple times and turn the gain down very low. This optimizes your sub to make best use of the signal coming from the receiver. Get it to say -2db, and then afterwards, you can bump up the channel level on the receiver 2 or 3db (don't change the gain on the sub) and see if that gives you the bass you are looking for.

2) Audyssey will often set your main speakers to large or full range. They should be set to small and you would need to set a crossover for the sub to work (try 80hz).

Make sure both of these are taken care of, and I would imagine that your sub should sound better.
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post #2525 of 2724
9/30/12 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Here are the two most common configuration problems that people have:
1) What did Audyssey determine to be the sub channel level? If a very low negative number, turn down the gain (volume) on the sub and rerun Audyssey until it's close to 0db, even if you have to rerun Audyssey multiple times and turn the gain down very low. This optimizes your sub to make best use of the signal coming from the receiver. Get it to say -2db, and then afterwards, you can bump up the channel level on the receiver 2 or 3db (don't change the gain on the sub) and see if that gives you the bass you are looking for.
2) Audyssey will often set your main speakers to large or full range. They should be set to small and you would need to set a crossover for the sub to work (try 80hz).
Make sure both of these are taken care of, and I would imagine that your sub should sound better.

I just posted this in the Denon xx13 owner's thread, but I'll post it here too.

I just got home with my brother's Klipsch RW-12D. I also got his copy of Quantum of Solace on bluray to test out everything with the opening car scene. Watching the opening scene multiple times with both subs there's definitely some bass with the F12 (set to 8 out of 10 on the knob), but the Klipsch really blows it out of the water(its digital read out is set to +4db (goes from -35db to +12db).

After reading other reviews I think my room is just too big and open for the BIC. Newegg has the rw-12d on sale for $300 right now. Maybe I can get amazon to price match if I return the BIC.
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post #2526 of 2724
9/30/12 at 12:54pm
Also, I didn't change a thing on the receiver's end. Just paused the music or movie I was testing, swapped subs and hit play. Listening to some Pendulum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN_74wT03qk) the Klipsch make me think my house is going to collapse. The F12 has a decent amount of bass but its no where close....I barely feel the couch vibrating.
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post #2527 of 2724
9/30/12 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350f View Post

Also, I didn't change a thing on the receiver's end. Just paused the music or movie I was testing, swapped subs and hit play. Listening to some Pendulum (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN_74wT03qk) the Klipsch make me think my house is going to collapse. The F12 has a decent amount of bass but its no where close....I barely feel the couch vibrating.

No way should there be that much of a difference between the F12 and the RW-12D. There is something wrong with the BIC sub. Return it for another F12.
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post #2528 of 2724
9/30/12 at 2:34pm
Really? I guess I'll call Amazon now and see how they handle exchanges.
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post #2529 of 2724
9/30/12 at 2:59pm
The Klipsch definitely has more SPL output and extends more linearly into the <30hz range. So sure it should perform better, especially since you have a big room.
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post #2530 of 2724
9/30/12 at 4:26pm
The f12 and the rw12d should have similar peak volumes above 32hz. The klipsch will just dig about 6-10hz lower depending on room gain.

The lowest frequencies cause the pant leg shake so you may be noticing that.
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post #2531 of 2724
9/30/12 at 4:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

The f12 and the rw12d should have similar peak volumes above 32hz. The klipsch will just dig about 6-10hz lower depending on room gain.
The lowest frequencies cause the pant leg shake so you may be noticing that.

Do you think it's something wrong with the F12, or more likely a setup and configuration issue?
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post #2532 of 2724
9/30/12 at 5:54pm
My F12, and all the F12s I've read about here in the forums hit hard at well under 1/2 volume. 350f can't even get audyssey to hear it until he's turned it up to over 6.5. There's definitely something wrong with his F12.
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post #2533 of 2724
9/30/12 at 6:11pm
i agree most likely an issue with that particular f12.

we had an f12 at the 2011 subwoofer meet in omaha and i've toyed with one on a lot of occasions as well as the klipsch rw12d subs.

bic f12 isn't weak in the realm of spl.
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post #2534 of 2724
9/30/12 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

i agree most likely an issue with that particular f12.
we had an f12 at the 2011 subwoofer meet in omaha and i've toyed with one on a lot of occasions as well as the klipsch rw12d subs.
bic f12 isn't weak in the realm of spl.

I was wondering what you thought since you have experience with more subs than 99% of the regulars on this forum smile.gif
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post #2535 of 2724
9/30/12 at 6:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

i agree most likely an issue with that particular f12.
we had an f12 at the 2011 subwoofer meet in omaha and i've toyed with one on a lot of occasions as well as the klipsch rw12d subs.
bic f12 isn't weak in the realm of spl.

Thanks for the info! I appreciate your help. I actually came across one of your posts on slickdeals about the 2 subs and PM'd you so I guess ignore that lol.

BTW, my friend was over listening to the 2 subs back to back. He said even if the BIC cost half as much as the Klipsch, he still wouldn't get the BIC he was so unimpressed.
Edited by 350f - 9/30/12 at 8:07pm
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post #2536 of 2724
10/1/12 at 5:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frack77 View Post

I just received the 2 F12's
I cant wait to hook these things up!

So what were your impressions of the F-12 subwoofers?

I have two F-12's paired with two SVS PB12-NSD subs in my system,
hooked up to a Onkyo TX-NR3009 receiver.

The big Onkyo has Audyssey MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT calibration.

Audyssey did an amazing job with my quad subwoofer setup.
My two ported and two sealed subs sound and "feel" great together.
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post #2537 of 2724
10/3/12 at 9:47am
I ended up getting some furniture so I had to recalibrate my setup. I set my sub gain to 3 and ran Audyssey. After doing the 6 position test, it registered my sub at -12.5 which is obviously really low.

I ended up leaving the gain to 3 on the sub and bumping the receiver to -3.0db.

My question is should I re-run the rest with a lower gain on the sub to get Audyssey closer to 0 or will it not make much of a difference? I remember reading somewhere in the thread that you really want Audyssey to register as close to 0db as possible without having to change the gain or levels on the receiver. Does this make a big difference or did me changing it from -12.5 to -3.0 seem OK?

These things really bug me as I want it to be perfect.
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post #2538 of 2724
10/3/12 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielsan4610 View Post

I ended up getting some furniture so I had to recalibrate my setup. I set my sub gain to 3 and ran Audyssey. After doing the 6 position test, it registered my sub at -12.5 which is obviously really low.
I ended up leaving the gain to 3 on the sub and bumping the receiver to -3.0db.
My question is should I re-run the rest with a lower gain on the sub to get Audyssey closer to 0 or will it not make much of a difference? I remember reading somewhere in the thread that you really want Audyssey to register as close to 0db as possible without having to change the gain or levels on the receiver. Does this make a big difference or did me changing it from -12.5 to -3.0 seem OK?
These things really bug me as I want it to be perfect.

Yes. You need to lower the gain on the sub and re-run Audyssey to get the sub's reading closer to 0. After that, leave the gain setting alone and adjust your sub (if necessary) by using the receiver's adjustments. However, many suggest that you listen for a week or two prior to making any such adjustments. You may well discover that you prefer the sound the "way it is meant to be heard".
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post #2539 of 2724
10/3/12 at 3:41pm
So conceivably, I could potentially have my subwoofer set to 1 gain and still have to adjust my receiver to get it closer to 0db? It seems like having the subwoofer only at 1 gain is severely limiting what it can do. I guess I just don't understand the importance of Audyssey and its readings and why everything would need to be turned down so low. Any other insights?
Edited by danielsan4610 - 10/3/12 at 3:46pm
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post #2540 of 2724
10/3/12 at 3:50pm
No, it should get close to 0 on Audyssey by simply turning down the gain on the F12 and without adjusting your receiver's settings. The F12's gain settings are notoriously skewed toward the lower settings. Mine are set at + ~2.5, and others have reported similar settings. Don't obsess about the "arbitrary" number on the sub's gain dial.
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post #2541 of 2724
10/5/12 at 2:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350f View Post

Is there something wrong with my sub? I'm VERY underwhelmed by the F12. I just got it the other day. Its hooked up to my new Denon 2113ci receiver. First of all, while doing the Audyssey calibration I have to turn the sub to about 6.5 before the mic will pick it up. It keeps saying Ambient noise is too high or level is too low. After running Audyssey at about 6.5 level settings on the sub and listening to music I just don't have much bass. If I crank it up to 10, its ok but not what I expected. My house is a split level/split foyer so the kitchen, living room and dining room are essentially one big room, also have vaulted ceilings so I'm not sure how much that effects the sound. Listening to the bulit in Pandora on the receiver with the Skrillex station I figured my house would completely rattle...but not so much...even turning the knob up to 10. I have it on Pro logic like the manual says if using the sub-in input. Tomorrow I'm going to borrow my brother's 12" Klipsch sub and see how it compares. (not sure on the model, its only a year or so old and I know it has a digital display on it.)
BTW previously I had my old Logitech Z680 5.1 computer speakers hooked up to my TV via optical. Its rated at 505w(188w) for the sub (8") and I'm especially not impressed with the F12 over that one.

I called BIC on Monday and explained the situation with my sub. They said there is more than likely something wrong with it. I then called Amazon and they had another sub at my door the very next afternoon!!!

So far I'm very happy with the F12. I haven't had time to run Audyssey again but with the volume knob set to 6 out of 10, watching something on national geographic channel last night about the tsunami in Japan last year, the sub was shaking my house so bad I had to turn it down. Thanks for your help!
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post #2542 of 2724
10/5/12 at 2:33pm
I was looking at the old model of that sub when I was searching for some bass. I think it will be OK for a low end sub. LIke any sub in that price/quality range you'll notice that it has a "sweet spot" and will sound really good when playing certain frequencies, but overall the sound will be be muddy.

BTW, I ended up going with an SVS PC12-NSD .... KILLER!!
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post #2543 of 2724
10/5/12 at 4:42pm
My Marantz has Audyssey & I've never cared for it. It seemed to adjust the bass way to low for my taste. I use a RS audio meter.
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post #2544 of 2724
10/6/12 at 12:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wichitadisciple View Post

I was looking at the old model of that sub when I was searching for some bass. I think it will be OK for a low end sub. LIke any sub in that price/quality range you'll notice that it has a "sweet spot" and will sound really good when playing certain frequencies, but overall the sound will be be muddy.
BTW, I ended up going with an SVS PC12-NSD .... KILLER!!

There is no compairing the BIC to an SVS. It's like compairing a Chevy to a Ferrari....huge difference. I have the BIC F12 for my tv only viewing, and it does a pretty good job producing the bass for tv shows and a few movie recordings on my dvr. It compliments my Def Tech Pro1000 and ProCenter 1000 speakers for the tv.
But for my home theater room I have an SVS PB12-Plus with Paradigm speakers, Studio 100 V.5 for the mains , center is CC-590 V.5, surrounds are ADP-390 V.5 Hands down, the SVS is way better in sound quality and output, but for the $$$, the BIC does a very good job.
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post #2545 of 2724
10/7/12 at 1:00am
I wasn't comparing BIC to SVS.... I just told him what to expect from the BIC and then threw in what I have since I was looking at the old style BIC before I bought the SVS.
I have a mid range home theater system. Running Martin Logan Motion 12's for the fronts, center is Motion 8, surrounds are Motion 4's. Good enough for me smile.gif
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post #2546 of 2724
10/8/12 at 12:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

No way should there be that much of a difference between the F12 and the RW-12D. There is something wrong with the BIC sub. Return it for another F12.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350f View Post

I called BIC on Monday and explained the situation with my sub. They said there is more than likely something wrong with it. I then called Amazon and they had another sub at my door the very next afternoon!!!

So far I'm very happy with the F12. I haven't had time to run Audyssey again but with the volume knob set to 6 out of 10, watching something on national geographic channel last night about the tsunami in Japan last year, the sub was shaking my house so bad I had to turn it down. Thanks for your help!

You're welcome, enjoy the sub!
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post #2547 of 2724
10/10/12 at 8:08am
Hey guys. I just got this sub, got a couple of questions.

My receiver has no LFE output, instead, it has speaker out pressure tabs for the 5 speaker channels and 1 for a subwoofer. How should I connect my sub? Should I connect it through either my L or R speaker and then connecting the speaker to the sub, or should I connect it directly from the pressure tab specific to the subwoofer connection?

My amp is a piece of crap SONY that came in a HTIB. I've upgraded all speakers and I left the receiver for last, but I need to save some money first.
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post #2548 of 2724
10/10/12 at 8:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wichitadisciple View Post

Good enough for me smile.gif
Enjoy your set up! If you enjoy it, that is all that matters. Some people enjoy talking about what they got rather than enjoying it.
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post #2549 of 2724
10/10/12 at 9:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxis View Post

Hey guys. I just got this sub, got a couple of questions.
My receiver has no LFE output, instead, it has speaker out pressure tabs for the 5 speaker channels and 1 for a subwoofer. How should I connect my sub? Should I connect it through either my L or R speaker and then connecting the speaker to the sub, or should I connect it directly from the pressure tab specific to the subwoofer connection?
My amp is a piece of crap SONY that came in a HTIB. I've upgraded all speakers and I left the receiver for last, but I need to save some money first.

The Sub out on the Sony is probably meant for Sony's speaker arrangement. I'd recommend not using that & using a standard sub setup as shown on page 6 of the manual.

The L&R front speaker wires would go to the F12 first, then continue to the speakers. Then, you'll need to adjust how much bass would go to your front L&R speakers with the crossover frequency control on the back of the F12. If they are smallish, try setting the control on the F12 to 100Hz & go from there according to how much bass you want the F12 to handle. If you main spks are larger, try 80Hz or less as they can handle those frequencies. Be sure to adjust the Phase switch to max bass response, too. Auto on is a nice feature. Adjust the volume of the F12 to your liking. Good to go!
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post #2550 of 2724
10/10/12 at 9:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DERG View Post

The Sub out on the Sony is probably meant for Sony's speaker arrangement. I'd recommend not using that & using a standard sub setup as shown on page 6 of the manual.
The L&R front speaker wires would go to the F12 first, then continue to the speakers. Then, you'll need to adjust how much bass would go to your front L&R speakers with the crossover frequency control on the back of the F12. If they are smallish, try setting the control on the F12 to 100Hz & go from there according to how much bass you want the F12 to handle. If you main spks are larger, try 80Hz or less as they can handle those frequencies. Be sure to adjust the Phase switch to max bass response, too. Auto on is a nice feature. Adjust the volume of the F12 to your liking. Good to go!

Good to know! I thought the best configuration was to connect through the subwoofer speaker out. I've got a pair of TSI400 so I guess I should set the sub to even lower than 80Hz? According to PA, they go down to 44Hz.
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