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BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 86

post #2551 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxis View Post

Good to know! I thought the best configuration was to connect through the subwoofer speaker out. I've got a pair of TSI400 so I guess I should set the sub to even lower than 80Hz? According to PA, they go down to 44Hz.

I'm guessing that your Sony receiver was part of a package system. If I'm right, the Sony's sub out would be setup for "their sub" which probably isn't as dynamic as the F12. By wiring it as indicated on pg 6 of the manual you remove all guess work & can't go wrong; you can tailor your system to the max, to you particular taste. smile.gif

Hope this helps!
post #2552 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post

The higher you set it, the less your receiver has to work (i.e. struggle to produce bass) and your receiver is the weak link here. Also, your speakers only have 5.25" woofers. I wouldn't recommend anything lower than 80Hz.

Totally agree!
post #2553 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxis View Post

Alright. Appreciate the help, people.

I would think a new AVR is the next thing on your wish list!?
post #2554 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I would think a new AVR is the next thing on your wish list!?

Definitely. I think I want to get a nice Denon AVR-2112, but first I have to save up some money. I'm glad I got the sub first, though. This thing is amazing.

Speaking of receivers... I have a couple more questions.

Using my current configuration (POS receiver with no LFE out) my configuration should be with the selector switch set to "Pro Logic Receiver" correct? That means my subwoofer will handle the crossover?

Once I upgrade my receiver (to say, a Denon 2112 that has an LFE out), I will have to switch this to "Digital 5.1..." correct? This means that the new, more capable receiver will handle the crossover, which is, from what I've read, the most desired configuration?

EDIT: One more question.

Is there really a difference between connecting only one speaker to the sub vs. connecting both of them? Right now I only have the Left Speaker connected through the sub and not the right one. It still sounds great. Will it sound better with both connected? I don't have enough wire at the moment to connect both.
Edited by Coxis - 10/17/12 at 7:43pm
post #2555 of 2834
Would love some help with my queries! smile.gif
post #2556 of 2834
Looking to get this sub week after next, so I'm going to be subless for awhile, my new Denon AVR comes tomorrow I figure this is the best sub for around $200?
post #2557 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusMagnus View Post



but I've owned a Z-5500 set for years and the 10", 33Hz sub in that unit NEVER made me think I needed something more powerful. I'm only upgrading because I'm getting a real receiver for HDMI switching. For me, a 12" driver that goes down to 23-25Hz is going to keep me satisfied for years to come.

I'm upgrading from a Z-680 I have a Denon AVR coming in and I would just need the sub next going from an 8" woofer to 12" I wonder how much more I will notice as far as 25 Hz vs 33 Hz
post #2558 of 2834
If I leave my sub on 24/7 will it have any bad effects to the long term life expectancy of the amp? When I put it on auto I have to turn it up somewhat loud to get it to turn on. I live in an apt and rarely turn my music up very loud but the sub sounds great with music down low too. I am probably wearing out the switch and just wonder how critical it is to turn it off every time I turn the receiver off. I have the crossover set at 90 and have tried it higher and lower but it wont come on with volume down low. I have a Yamaha RX-V671 receiver ad the sub usually kicks on at about -45db. That is pretty loud for just ambient music when I am reading or trying to get to sleep with the timer set. It really makes a big difference even at -60db though and thats why I like to keep it on. I have Klipsch VF-36 towers that have decent bass but they need even more volume to show it. Everything sounds fantastic if I turn it up but I like to listen to good full sound music down low most of the time.
post #2559 of 2834
Odd that the F12 auto on doesn't work at low level. I don't think I'd leave it on 24/7. Just my opinion. HTH
post #2560 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coxis View Post

Definitely. I think I want to get a nice Denon AVR-2112, but first I have to save up some money. I'm glad I got the sub first, though. This thing is amazing.
Speaking of receivers... I have a couple more questions.
Using my current configuration (POS receiver with no LFE out) my configuration should be with the selector switch set to "Pro Logic Receiver" correct? That means my subwoofer will handle the crossover?
Once I upgrade my receiver (to say, a Denon 2112 that has an LFE out), I will have to switch this to "Digital 5.1..." correct? This means that the new, more capable receiver will handle the crossover, which is, from what I've read, the most desired configuration?
EDIT: One more question.
Is there really a difference between connecting only one speaker to the sub vs. connecting both of them? Right now I only have the Left Speaker connected through the sub and not the right one. It still sounds great. Will it sound better with both connected? I don't have enough wire at the moment to connect both.
You are correct about the selector switch setting. I dont connect speakers to my sub.
post #2561 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post


Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I recall reading somewhere that the amp was designed by the same person who designed the BASH amp? All the descriptions say "BASH designed amp" rather than "BASH amp" and as you say, no logo on the back, as there is on, say, an SVS. So I think it's BASH-like.
What class is the F12 amp (ex.A,B,C or D). I have searched this forum pretty well and see no mention of it. I dont really care who supposedly designed it but which class means a lot. Kinda fishy that BIC makes it so difficult to find out. Its not even on their website.
post #2562 of 2834
hey guys my 2 year old nephew came over today and well, i caught that little ******** close to the back of the f12 perhaps doing mischief. i do not know if he did anything but for some reason i seem to have lost some bass from the f12. i tried dif movies like the olyphant scene in lotr return of the king, knowing airplane crash scene etc. the bass is there but it doesnt thump or shake the room like previously.

the sub is def on. i took the cover off and the woofer does move. i checked phase, still set to 0, i checked the crossover freq and its up all the way so i dont know what happened. the volume knob i think seems the same as it was when i ran audyssey.

i also checked the receiver making sure the 5.0 speakers set to small, crossover at 80 etc.

what are my options? ill change the sub cable tomorrow. if that doesnt work i will rerun audyssey.

but if those dont work any other ideas?
Edited by bradymartin - 10/30/12 at 8:19pm
post #2563 of 2834
Sounds like the little darling may have adjusted your gain...maybe it's just your imagination. Rerun setup and find out.
post #2564 of 2834
How does this sub compare to Premier Acoustic PA-150? Anyone. I am thinking of buying a new 3.1 system and possibly a receiver since they wife appears to be okay with it for XMAS wink.gif.
post #2565 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

How does this sub compare to Premier Acoustic PA-150? Anyone. I am thinking of buying a new 3.1 system and possibly a receiver since they wife appears to be okay with it for XMAS wink.gif.

The F12 is more comparable to the smaller PA-120. If you do a search on the forum, generally the PA-150 is considered to be a little better than the BIC PL-200, the next model up BIC.
post #2566 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The F12 is more comparable to the smaller PA-120. If you do a search on the forum, generally the PA-150 is considered to be a little better than the BIC PL-200, the next model up BIC.

Thanks. I'm leaning towards the PA-150. I just have to convince the wife that huge sub will blend in lol.
post #2567 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The F12 is more comparable to the smaller PA-120. If you do a search on the forum, generally the PA-150 is considered to be a little better than the BIC PL-200, the next model up BIC.
None of these subwoofer owner/experts know what class amplifier the F12 has? hmmm
post #2568 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

The F12 is more comparable to the smaller PA-120. If you do a search on the forum, generally the PA-150 is considered to be a little better than the BIC PL-200, the next model up BIC.
None of these subwoofer owner/experts know what class amplifier the F12 has? hmmm

I believe it's a BASH amp, which is a hybrid.
post #2569 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I believe it's a BASH amp, which is a hybrid.
It is not a BASH amp and it is not a hybrid. But that has nothing to do with what class it is. Thanks anyway.
post #2570 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

It is not a BASH amp and it is not a hybrid. But that has nothing to do with what class it is. Thanks anyway.

BIC says the F12 amp is designed by BASH.
post #2571 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

BIC says the F12 amp is designed by BASH.
I am well aware of that. BASH is a company, not a class of amplifier. That would be like me asking you what class did you fly and you respond "American Airlines".
post #2572 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

It is not a BASH amp and it is not a hybrid. But that has nothing to do with what class it is. Thanks anyway.

BIC says the F12 amp is designed by BASH.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

BIC says the F12 amp is designed by BASH.
I am well aware of that. BASH is a company, not a class of amplifier. That would be like me asking you what class did you fly and you respond "American Airlines".

Look, you're the genius who bought when you didn't know what you were buying. Believe I've seen BASH amps are a hybrid of A/B and D....
post #2573 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

I am well aware of that. BASH is a company, not a class of amplifier. That would be like me asking you what class did you fly and you respond "American Airlines".

No. That just means you don't know what a BASH subwoofer amplifier is. If I'm not mistaken, they are generally a hybrid class AB and D amplifier.

But I don't understand what difference it makes. The BIC F12 is a very good sub for the price, one of the best. Why does the amplifier class change that? It either performs well for the price, or it doesn't. Seems like the overwhelming verdict is that it does perform well.
post #2574 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Look, you're the genius who bought when you didn't know what you were buying. Believe I've seen BASH amps are a hybrid of A/B and D....

Darn! I walked away from the computer before finishing posting, and you beat me to it. smile.gif
post #2575 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Look, you're the genius who bought when you didn't know what you were buying. Believe I've seen BASH amps are a hybrid of A/B and D....

Darn! I walked away from the computer before finishing posting, and you beat me to it. smile.gif

Yeah but between us hopefully he can get the point here.
post #2576 of 2834
My original question was would it hurt to leave the sub on all the time. No one here answered but in a different forum I was told that if it was a class D then it would not hurt but any other type amp would degrade over time because of the heat. None of these responses really answers the question. "I believe" and "If I'm not mistaken" says to me "I dont know". Thanks anyway. I sent an email to BIC 2 weeks ago and they have not responded. If they do, I will post so that everyone will know.
Edited by Bond 007 - 11/1/12 at 2:40am
post #2577 of 2834
Think about it bit. The manufacturer built a standby mode in to the device. Use that instead of leaving it completely on.
post #2578 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My original question was would it hurt to leave the sub on all the time. No one here answered but in a different forum I was told that if it was a class D then it would not hurt but any other type amp would degrade over time because of the heat. None of these responses really answers the question. "I believe" and "If I'm not mistaken" says to me "I dont know". Thanks anyway. I sent an email to BIC 2 weeks ago and they have not responded. If they do, I will post so that everyone will know.

1) BIC is likely the best one to answer your question. On the other the other hand, they are likely to say "turn it off" rather than risk that it might damage the amp, if the person answering emails doesn't know for sure.
2) Let your sub run for 12 hours on, then check to see if it's putting out any heat. If it's cool to the touch, then the concern about heat damage would seem to be null.
3) Auto On/Off features on subs often fail to function when the sub is incorrectly calibrated with the system with the gain (volume) set too high on the back of the sub. Is your sub calibrated such that the receiver's room correction software determines a subwoofer channel level right around 0 db? That optimizes the gain sensitivity with the audio signal of the receiver. If not, there is probably not a problem with your subwoofer. You would just need to adjust the gain and rerun the room correction software multiple times until you get the right calibration.
4) The worst way to seek help on an Internet forum is to reply with snarky comments about the lack of helpfulness of other people's suggestions. Most often people are trying to help, even if it doesn't work out that way, but the resulting discussion may eventually lead to a solution. Giving attitude discourages others from trying to help you.
post #2579 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

My original question was would it hurt to leave the sub on all the time. No one here answered but in a different forum I was told that if it was a class D then it would not hurt but any other type amp would degrade over time because of the heat. None of these responses really answers the question. "I believe" and "If I'm not mistaken" says to me "I dont know". Thanks anyway. I sent an email to BIC 2 weeks ago and they have not responded. If they do, I will post so that everyone will know.

When I'm not sure, as when am not seeing definitive information (and couldn't find it for BIC or BASH), then I'll make a conditional statement. It's your question, answer it if it's so important to you, no one owes you an explanation. Emails to companies often go unanswered, give them a call and be persistent if it's important to you. Personally I use standby mode on four subs (three brands, none BIC, three different models), one for about 3 years now, one for 2 years, and two for several months. No issues. They come on no problem when I have sound through the system but they're all properly set up, too. Like someone else says, if they're running very warm in standby, then you might have an issue. I'd worry more about the longevity of a low end sub from just general quality of components installed...rather than trying to judge it by amp class.
post #2580 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

When I'm not sure, as when am not seeing definitive information (and couldn't find it for BIC or BASH), then I'll make a conditional statement. It's your question, answer it if it's so important to you, no one owes you an explanation. Emails to companies often go unanswered, give them a call and be persistent if it's important to you. Personally I use standby mode on four subs (three brands, none BIC, three different models), one for about 3 years now, one for 2 years, and two for several months. No issues. They come on no problem when I have sound through the system but they're all properly set up, too. Like someone else says, if they're running very warm in standby, then you might have an issue. I'd worry more about the longevity of a low end sub from just general quality of components installed...rather than trying to judge it by amp class.
You say they come on when you have sound through the system because they are properly calibrated. Do they come on immediately when you power on the receiver even at very low volume? And if so does it stay on if you listen at low volume for a while? This is the point at which a subtle noticeable difference is made by the sub to make up for lack of very low end by the other speakers but it is not punching yet. This is very useful for listening to quality ambient music at low volume as I stated in my original post which it still seems as if no one has read. My sub does not get hot and sounds fine at volume but will not turn on or stay on at very low volume but when I turn it on manually it fills in the lows that are lacking. It becomes tiresome turning it on and off. As far as I am oncerned if I can hear the sub however subtle when I turn it on then that should be enough volume for it to switch on. Perhaps I am expecting too much but I dont think I should have to listen to music loud to get the sub to stay on. If you can tell me that yours truly come on as long as you "have sound through the system" then that would be helpful in my evaluation.
Edited by Bond 007 - 11/1/12 at 3:32pm
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