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BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 90

post #2671 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff6666p View Post

Should the backplate be a little warm when your not using it? It's not hot, I can keep my hand on it. I just notice it was slightly warm when I went to turn it on. it was off in standby mode for more then 18 hours
No.
post #2672 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff6666p View Post

I have had it on for a little of an hour and a half and it's still just warm, a little warmer then before but still just warm.
Try unplugging it for a couple of hours just for the heck of it. Mine barely gets warm when I'm using it unless I'm really pushing it. But when its on standby its stone cold.
post #2673 of 2724
When it's standby, is the light actually red or is it still green? If it's still green while you think you're on standby then you might have a bit of a ground loop hum that you just can't hear.

If it is actually on standby and the light is red, then it may be a deeper issue.
post #2674 of 2724
My F12 has been on for about 1 hour playing "The best of WAR". Plus repeated plays of "Low Rider" all at normal listening levels (about -35 Db on the Yamaha display). Just felt the back of the sub and it is the same temp as the rest of the cabinet, which is to say room temp (thermostat in the room reads 69F). Have the crossover set to 80 hz on the receiver. Have the sub volume control where it is not overpowering the bookshelf speakers, that is to say its playing at a moderate volume compared to the other speakers.

Hope this info is helpful. If the plate feels warmer than body temp after sitting in stand by mode for a while, my guess would be something is not right. JMHO.
post #2675 of 2724
I love this sub, so i bought 2 for my new setup. Bic inwall's 5.1 and 2 bic sub's running off a denon 1913. Subs calibrated at half volume and crossover set at 40
post #2676 of 2724
I used to run my F12 with a crossover set to 40Hz as well. Until I tried it with the crossover set to 80Hz. Setting the crossover to 80Hz increased the spl level of my sub completely.
post #2677 of 2724
Would there be much of a difference between the 150W RMS on the F12 vs 300W RMS on the PSW505? I'm just a few clicks away from ordering the F12. Sorry for being a newbie...
post #2678 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibuya View Post

Would there be much of a difference between the 150W RMS on the F12 vs 300W RMS on the PSW505? I'm just a few clicks away from ordering the F12. Sorry for being a newbie...

I didn't notice much difference in spl levels between the two. The Polk could play a bit louder, but it wasn't drastic. Very slight actually.

Unless they are both the exact same price right now, I wouldn't get the Polk.
post #2679 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

I used to run my F12 with a crossover set to 40Hz as well. Until I tried it with the crossover set to 80Hz. Setting the crossover to 80Hz increased the spl level of my sub completely.

Yes, 80Hz is generally advised.
post #2680 of 2724
Here's a question. I have pretty limited space where my F12 is. Has anyone found some kind of stand that would fit over the top of the F12 if that makes sense?

Something like an end table with legs that's high enough to clear the width and height of the F12.
post #2681 of 2724
nvmd
Edited by Elrowyn - 3/13/13 at 11:22am
post #2682 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrowyn View Post

What's the best setting for this? (before you proceed I know it varies just looking for a guideline)

maybe 80hz or less? (this dictates when the sub is called upon?)
half volume or a bit less
-6.5 on my avr 1712

Overall this is a GOOD sub for a small/med home theater living room. I have been craving more on the low end though so I'm adding a Klipsch RW12D to the system.

I did some reading of the thread and it looks like I'll try setting the gain to maybe 60 running audyssey and keep lowering the gain until audyssey auto sets it as near to 0 as possible. Right now it set it at -12 so I need to turn the gain down and try again. I'm just trying to eliminate the muddy sound while still feeling a punch. I'm sure the klipsch will help there.
I think you need to read your post and try again. It doesnt make any sense. smile.gif
post #2683 of 2724
I see I am a few years late on the forum here but found it humerous at times although most people here seem to understand the concept and are very helpful to potential buyers. Let me chime in. I actually just ordered the BIC, yeh just now. I see people with "vast and great knowledge" of car audio here and I think it should be added that cars have a natural "Boom" factor at certain frequencies, not to mention the smaller cabin space, and difference of noise floors, etc. so I wouldn't compare the knowledge of car audio to anything that involves a home sub. I was a Master Certified MECP installer of car audio over 23 years ago when there were only a few in the country. I had a shop in the 90's through '04 selling home and car audio when I sold it. When I read some of these comments I just had to put in a bit of my "findings" from over 20 years experience in both "home" and car" which is as different as "cars and boats". But one thing that remains is the "overstated power" of an amp. This is nothing new and I know this from working with companies like polk, Infinity, Proton, Deno, and pioneer. A portion of what you buy is product and the other is marketing. As a consumer, you wouldnt even be on these forums if you didnt already know you are responsible for educating yourself before buying, so don't blame the industry who has been "marketing" for over 100 years. Look at the speedometer in your car. Does your car go that fast? So why even put a 120 mph speedo in a car that tops at 98 MPH. It is based on public perception. Company's tend to market to the less informed because the informed don't believe everything in black and white anyway. It's not some scam. Pleae tell that youdidn't growing wanting something advertised on televison, a nerf boomerang or something, that wasn't as user friendly as the kids on t.v. made it look. If advertising wasnt made to focus people into purchasing both "grea"t and "inferi" products then why advertise or even stray from just making one great product of everything. If something didn't perform as well as the best on the market, he wouldnt try to sell it..


About the power ratings.

The formula for wattage is simply volts x amps= watts. just so you know, there is not a car audio company that hasnt used a boasted or peak output in over 30 years. Some even rate at over 14 volts. to make themselves seem more powerful. Have you looked at a car adio receiver? 200 watts? Never happened to this day. Proton Home amps were big in the 80's and early 90's and used "Dynamic power on demand", so did Infinity and many others. I am not concerned with the lack of power. You should not be judging by the power of the amp, more the efficiency of the woofer. a 90db sensitivty woofer does the same at 150 watts as an 87db at 300. You must double your power to gain 3 db's. So toss that spec out the window please.
The thing that I found interesting the most on the F-12 from all I have read, was the ability of the Driver to take more than what was being driven to it. I am surprised no one has used a more powerful amp to really test the speaker and enclosure. I have a CSX-12 Plate amp from Cadence that I am going to try on this (if i am not satisfied with the performance) so I would like to really test the subs limits. I have not yet seen the specs on the sub itself to know of its power handling and ratings but the CSX is pretty clean so it shouldnt be much of a factor.
All this being said, Most of the companies offer refunds so I emplore you to take everything here with a grain of salt. Companies even solicit people to write reviews to boost sales or hurt competitors. I can tell you that less than 20 percent of the people buying a sub know how to set it up properly so who knows what their opinion is worth. i will just take a chance on my purchase and after the majority of these people letting me read subjectively, I am only concerned at this point with the proper setup and any manufacturer defects which seems to be a very small percentage.
"Finding out what isn't of great quality is as important as finding out what is. Enjoy the journey, but do it responsibly!"
post #2684 of 2724
Well mor-n-4md, I too have an electronics background, years in professional sound, and know a bit about AV.

In my opinion, the F-12 is a great little sub for under $200, and you'd be hard pressed to beat it in that price range. Is it as good as a Hsu VTF-15 or a Captivator? (each of which I listen to almost daily) No. But it also doesn't cost over $1000. You get what you pay for, and with the F-12, you get a bit more than the competition, in my opinion.

Also, replacing the amp defeats the purpose of buying a sub at this price level. Re-engineering the sub is not cost effective, and is a waste of time and money. You also mentioned not having seen the specs, you can find them at www.bicamerica.com
Edited by Augerhandle - 3/29/13 at 9:37pm
post #2685 of 2724
I hope the sub is as stated by most owners. I already have the other amplifier so theres not much to do with tying it in on the sub as far as cost. Dimension wise, it can be easily made to fit the new enclosure and the Bash amp is not "spec'd" to any particular subwoofer.I just know that I have read by one pro-audio review site that the sub could be driven much harder than the BASH amp it comes with. I saw so many people who have multiple subs that they test side by side and wondered if anyone tried putting a few more watts to the speaker. I just listened to my old cadence 12 and noticed how muddy it sounds to me after 10 years. This is an old subwoofer with a new amplifier from a more recent model, the CSX 12 at 350 watts. I would rather not disassemble the cadence for parts as I have a smaller room I can probably make some use of it. As far as the earlier post, I wasn't trying to sound condescending but rather it was an extremely late response to some posts toward the beginning of the thread that seemed a bit harsh an somewhat uneducated toward an enthusiastic BIC owner. I am really looking forward to hearing this sub inits natural form before making any possible overhauls.
post #2686 of 2724
Thanks for the site info but I am more interested in seeing the parameters of the actual driver and not so much the unit as a whole. I did not see that informatioon, If you know where it is I would like to do some research. Especially in thesudwoofer drivers power handling capability. I don't think I will be overpowering it though.
post #2687 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by mor-n-4md View Post

I hope the sub is as stated by most owners. I already have the other amplifier so theres not much to do with tying it in on the sub as far as cost. Dimension wise, it can be easily made to fit the new enclosure and the Bash amp is not "spec'd" to any particular subwoofer.I just know that I have read by one pro-audio review site that the sub could be driven much harder than the BASH amp it comes with. I saw so many people who have multiple subs that they test side by side and wondered if anyone tried putting a few more watts to the speaker. I just listened to my old cadence 12 and noticed how muddy it sounds to me after 10 years. This is an old subwoofer with a new amplifier from a more recent model, the CSX 12 at 350 watts. I would rather not disassemble the cadence for parts as I have a smaller room I can probably make some use of it. As far as the earlier post, I wasn't trying to sound condescending but rather it was an extremely late response to some posts toward the beginning of the thread that seemed a bit harsh an somewhat uneducated toward an enthusiastic BIC owner. I am really looking forward to hearing this sub inits natural form before making any possible overhauls.
I think its unlikely you will be impressed out of the box no matter how well you set it up. Most of the great reviews here are from people who this is their first subwoofer. It may not be cost effective for most people but it will be interesting to see what you can achieve with modifications. There are a lot of DIY projects out there for $200 that would far outperform the F12.
post #2688 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by mor-n-4md View Post

I see I am a few years late on the forum here but found it humerous at times although most people here seem to understand the concept and are very helpful to potential buyers. Let me chime in. I actually just ordered the BIC, yeh just now. I see people with "vast and great knowledge" of car audio here and I think it should be added that cars have a natural "Boom" factor at certain frequencies, not to mention the smaller cabin space, and difference of noise floors, etc. so I wouldn't compare the knowledge of car audio to anything that involves a home sub. I was a Master Certified MECP installer of car audio over 23 years ago when there were only a few in the country. I had a shop in the 90's through '04 selling home and car audio when I sold it. When I read some of these comments I just had to put in a bit of my "findings" from over 20 years experience in both "home" and car" which is as different as "cars and boats". But one thing that remains is the "overstated power" of an amp. This is nothing new and I know this from working with companies like polk, Infinity, Proton, Deno, and pioneer. A portion of what you buy is product and the other is marketing. As a consumer, you wouldnt even be on these forums if you didnt already know you are responsible for educating yourself before buying, so don't blame the industry who has been "marketing" for over 100 years. Look at the speedometer in your car. Does your car go that fast? So why even put a 120 mph speedo in a car that tops at 98 MPH. It is based on public perception. Company's tend to market to the less informed because the informed don't believe everything in black and white anyway. It's not some scam. Pleae tell that youdidn't growing wanting something advertised on televison, a nerf boomerang or something, that wasn't as user friendly as the kids on t.v. made it look. If advertising wasnt made to focus people into purchasing both "grea"t and "inferi" products then why advertise or even stray from just making one great product of everything. If something didn't perform as well as the best on the market, he wouldnt try to sell it..


About the power ratings.

The formula for wattage is simply volts x amps= watts. just so you know, there is not a car audio company that hasnt used a boasted or peak output in over 30 years. Some even rate at over 14 volts. to make themselves seem more powerful. Have you looked at a car adio receiver? 200 watts? Never happened to this day. Proton Home amps were big in the 80's and early 90's and used "Dynamic power on demand", so did Infinity and many others. I am not concerned with the lack of power. You should not be judging by the power of the amp, more the efficiency of the woofer. a 90db sensitivty woofer does the same at 150 watts as an 87db at 300. You must double your power to gain 3 db's. So toss that spec out the window please.
The thing that I found interesting the most on the F-12 from all I have read, was the ability of the Driver to take more than what was being driven to it. I am surprised no one has used a more powerful amp to really test the speaker and enclosure. I have a CSX-12 Plate amp from Cadence that I am going to try on this (if i am not satisfied with the performance) so I would like to really test the subs limits. I have not yet seen the specs on the sub itself to know of its power handling and ratings but the CSX is pretty clean so it shouldnt be much of a factor.
All this being said, Most of the companies offer refunds so I emplore you to take everything here with a grain of salt. Companies even solicit people to write reviews to boost sales or hurt competitors. I can tell you that less than 20 percent of the people buying a sub know how to set it up properly so who knows what their opinion is worth. i will just take a chance on my purchase and after the majority of these people letting me read subjectively, I am only concerned at this point with the proper setup and any manufacturer defects which seems to be a very small percentage.
"Finding out what isn't of great quality is as important as finding out what is. Enjoy the journey, but do it responsibly!"

Rockford Fosgate power a2 series from late 1990s. They included independent and unique test results with every amps paperwork. They underrated these amps. Test outcomes were 5 to 10% higher than the marketing on the outside of the box. These were well known to be about the best amps at the time. My friend and I both bought one and they had unique peak power ratings in the box. One of them was tested a few watts higher than the other, but both were tested closer to 900 watts than the 800 rating. They were the power 800a2 amps.
post #2689 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Rockford Fosgate power a2 series from late 1990s. They included independent and unique test results with every amps paperwork. They underrated these amps. Test outcomes were 5 to 10% higher than the marketing on the outside of the box. These were well known to be about the best amps at the time. My friend and I both bought one and they had unique peak power ratings in the box. One of them was tested a few watts higher than the other, but both were tested closer to 900 watts than the 800 rating. They were the power 800a2 amps.
Are you talking about the CSX-12 Plate amp?
post #2690 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post


In my opinion, the F-12 is a great little sub for under $200, and you'd be hard pressed to beat it in that price range.

Do you own F-12 subs?
post #2691 of 2724
It is the Csx 12 plate amplifier but the woofer and enclosure are older cadence pieces so it doesn't perform like a CSX 12.. And I do remember the old amps from Rockford, Orion, U..S and others. These were built for competition to give the advantage in watt classes. Amp companies were marketing to an educated audience whether it be through the competition circuit or the few car audio magazines. It was still hard to sell a punch 45 to someone who didn't that it was underrated by over 100 watts. Also keep in mind that the internet ruined car audio retail as before ebay and other Amazon marketing was specific to regions and stereo brands were "exclusive" to a certain shops in a geographic footprint. There used to be about 30 brands to choose from then came the knock offs trying to make people think they were the equivalent. Ultimate Audio with their JL Audio w6 knock off, crunch instead of punch, USA Amps, and hundreds of others. American made was the way to go in power but to stay competetive companies starting piecing things from other countries. Soon even those great underrated amps were being test at 14.4 volts on those "power sheets". Subs were made to be 3 ohms instead of 4 while maintaining that they were still 4 ohms. This drove an amp harder making people believe they "Hit Harder". If the amp could handle the lowered inmpedence, it really seemed that way. Anyway, This can go on from me for ever but I know this is a forum for the BIC and not my pesonal walk won memory lane.
post #2692 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Augerhandle View Post


In my opinion, the F-12 is a great little sub for under $200, and you'd be hard pressed to beat it in that price range.
Do you own F-12 subs?

I own an F-12, yes.
post #2693 of 2724
Anybody wants to sell yore bic f12?
post #2694 of 2724
Anybody wants to sell youre sub? Im Willing to buy only if youre in NY area. Ty.
post #2695 of 2724
I might sell, iM in PA, but work in NYC
post #2696 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr27 View Post

I might sell, iM in PA, but work in NYC
wondering how much the shipping will cost? mad.gif
post #2697 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

wondering how much the shipping will cost? mad.gif

I'll try my best to work something out
post #2698 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

wondering how much the shipping will cost? mad.gif
Roughly $50 if he drops it off at UPS? A pick up will be more.
post #2699 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmr27 View Post

I'll try my best to work something out
any reason why selling it? any damaged or something with the sub?
post #2700 of 2724
Quote:
Originally Posted by caloyzki View Post

Anybody wants to sell youre sub? Im Willing to buy only if youre in NY area. Ty.

Why buy a used sub and pay shipping when a new sub w/free shipping is $217 right now on Amazon?
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