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BIC America F12 sub anyone ? - Page 12

post #331 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by defriend View Post

Anybody have any coupons for BeachAudio?

Just bought a AVR yesterday and any savings on this sub will help..

Regards
Nick

You can use microsoft's cashback program. It won't be much, but every little bit helps. I think it's 4% now for Beach Audio.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

YAY! BIC is going to replace my damaged grille even though their warranty specifically states it does not cover damage incurred during shipping.

Here is the email I got from them today:

Sir:

We can replace the damaged F-12 grille for you.

Please remove the damaged grille and wrap it in a couple of layers of bubble-wrap. Pack it securely in a sturdy carton, but don't seal the carton yet.

Put in the carton a note with your name, address, telephone number and a brief explanation of the circumstances that broke off the plastic mounting tab and dented the corner. Also, put in a copy of your dated e-mailed internet invoice and a copy of this correspondence including the subject line above. These are essential.

Seal the carton and send it to:
[BIC's address]

What a good company to replace my grille rather than have me deal with Provantage or the shipping company. I like BIC.

That's great news Posh. Very cool of BIC to do that. I hope I never need to use their warranty service, but if I do, I know I will be able to count on them.

A big reason I bought the BIC.
post #332 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by defriend View Post

Well... I am getting very impatient with Amazon.com. Can you recommend another sub similar to BIC F-12 and similar price range / performance?

My details:

Current equipment:
1. 52" Sharp LCD
2. Pioneer VSX-D608 .. replacing with Onkyo TX-SR607 this weekend.. got a wonderful deal on this
3. Bose Acoustimas 5.1 (.1 being the "un-powered" sub). I know I need to change this.. its on my list.
4. Sony 1080p upscaling DVD player
5. Dish n/w DVR with HDMI
6. PS3 - Play to add
7. Additional sub. Had a KSW-10 (it died), have ordered a BIC F-12 (thanks AVS forums..)

Room:
- 16' x 20' with 20' ceiling
- Carpet
- living room open up to a 2 story foyer on the back and kitchen on the left

Main purpose:
- Movies and TV 65%
- Music 35%

Regards
Nick

Ok.. cancelled my order at Amazon and order the sub from Beachaudio for $197 on Wed, got the sub on Thu!! That was fast.

I set up the sub with the Onkyo TX-SR607 (using audessy). The Sub is terrific for movies. But when listening to music (Ipod with RCA/analog inputs for CD slot), the sub seemed either weak, or "boomy" when I cranked up the volume. Am I doing something wrong? Can anybody recommend the "ideal" settings for my system (specs above)?

Really would like to get his sub working well for music.

PS: I played the same music that I used to play when I had the KSW-10 (to compare). KSW-10 seemed a bit tighter (in retrospect).

Regards
Nick
post #333 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by defriend View Post

Ok.. cancelled my order at Amazon and order the sub from Beachaudio for $197 on Wed, got the sub on Thu!! That was fast.

I set up the sub with the Onkyo TX-SR607 (using audessy). The Sub is terrific for movies.

I told you guys Beach Audio was awesome.

And yes, this thing rocks for movies.

Don't know what to say about the music thing. It is known that this sub is not tight enough to accurately produce some aspects of music, but you are instead mentioning the boominess problem. You could tinker with settings (volume, phase, distance in the AVR, etc), but what may have more effect is placement. As is commonly known, a sub in the corner or against the wall can seem too boomy and one too far from the wall can seem too week. Play around with placement (I know, I know, it's a pain) and see if it has an effect. Don't forget to rerun Audyssey each time you make an adjustment (or at least manually adjust the distance in the AVR). You also might want to look into the subdude or one of the DYI options (mentioned in the subdude thread here).

Oh, one more thing. You could also get decent front speakers (towers from instance), which would make music sound better even without the sub, assuming you play the music in direct stereo mode.

Sorry I can't be of more help, but as I stated before, I bought this sub for 100% home theater (which somehow makes sense even though movies *have* music in them!).

Good luck!
post #334 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by defriend View Post

Ok.. cancelled my order at Amazon and order the sub from Beachaudio for $197 on Wed, got the sub on Thu!! That was fast.

I set up the sub with the Onkyo TX-SR607 (using audessy). The Sub is terrific for movies. But when listening to music (Ipod with RCA/analog inputs for CD slot), the sub seemed either weak, or "boomy" when I cranked up the volume. Am I doing something wrong? Can anybody recommend the "ideal" settings for my system (specs above)?

Really would like to get his sub working well for music.

PS: I played the same music that I used to play when I had the KSW-10 (to compare). KSW-10 seemed a bit tighter (in retrospect).

Regards
Nick

Now that's quick shipping ehh? I got mine from Beach also..but it took 3 days, but I was happy with that.

Sounds like you might have an issue with your setup? What does Audyssey have your sub volume set at? Did you "dial in the sub" before running a full 6 position mic setup?

Like Posh states you also need to move the sub around for the best sound quality to be obtained.
post #335 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by defriend View Post

But when listening to music (Ipod with RCA/analog inputs for CD slot), the sub seemed either weak, or "boomy" when I cranked up the volume. Am I doing something wrong?

Since you're listening to compressed music from an mp3 player using a stereo connection why are you expecting that a great result is possible in the first place??
post #336 of 2834
correct me if I'm wrong, but the F-12 comes with a black piano top finish?
post #337 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by samsurd2 View Post

Since you're listening to compressed music from an mp3 player using a stereo connection why are you expecting that a great result is possible in the first place??

Yup. The better your system, the worse all those MP3s are gonna sound...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangosalsa View Post

correct me if I'm wrong, but the F-12 comes with a black piano top finish?

No way. The F12 looks like crap. It's just made out of some cheap MDF quickly painted matte black. You can kinda see wood grain, but even that ain't pretty. It has nothing going for it in the looks department at all. It's just a big black ugly box with practically zero WAF.
post #338 of 2834
right, that's one major difference between the older H-100 and the newer F12. they got rid of the gloss black caps.... that's now restricted to the step-up VK-12, I guess to create some more product differentiation.
post #339 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

right, that's one major difference between the older H-100 and the newer F12. they got rid of the gloss black caps.... that's now restricted to the step-up VK-12, I guess to create some more product differentiation.

I don't think the F12 was meant as the replacement model for the older H-100 although they are similar size and specs. I think it was meant more to be a lower cost solution with similar performance.

The gloss tops can be found on several other models also including the PL-200, PA-120 and PA-10W and as said the VK-12, plus the H-100 can still be found.
post #340 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

Yup. The better your system, the worse all those MP3s are gonna sound...



No way. The F12 looks like crap. It's just made out of some cheap MDF quickly painted matte black. You can kinda see wood grain, but even that ain't pretty. It has nothing going for it in the looks department at all. It's just a big black ugly box with practically zero WAF.

I must say I disagree. It's not painted, it's veneer, and it's not matte at all. I don't think it's ugly at all, it's a decent looking sub, it's not entering a beauty contest! If you're looking for a girlfreind then the F12 aint for you.

I use my IPhone all the time for music and it sounds pretty good. I tried the CD version via BluRay player and IPhone version of the same tunes a few times and there is almost no difference. May depend on the AVR...
post #341 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

I must say I disagree. It's not painted, it's veneer, and it's not matte at all. I don't think it's ugly at all, it's a decent looking sub, it's not entering a beauty contest! If you're looking for a girlfreind then the F12 aint for you.

I use my IPhone all the time for music and it sounds pretty good. I tried the CD version via BluRay player and IPhone version of the same tunes a few times and there is almost no difference. May depend on the AVR...

Well, if the "MP3"s are of the same quality (bitrate, etc) as "CD" music, then yeah, sure it will sound the same. But there's no way that will compare to the quality of a DTS-MA-HD soundtrack on a BluRay. All I was saying is that higher quality speakers will reveal the difference, between say CDs and DTS-MA-HD, whereas if you have inferior speakers, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between those two.

Painted, veneer, whatever. The point is, the thing is the ugliest thing in my house, no doubt (and it certainly doesn't look anything like a piano). By "matte" I just meant it is by no means shiny. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just giving my opinion. I don't regret buying it at all... I knew what I was getting into. I was buying it for the sound and moreover, the price. I'm pleased with it's performance within the sub $200 price range, but wanted to make sure potential buyers understood what they are getting into in the aesthetics department.

Bottom line, it looks only slightly worse than my Energy C series speakers' veneer finish, but it is so huge and cubish that it makes it much less attractive than them.
I will try to remember to post a picture of the sub next to an Energy C100 and an Energy Take Classic satellite speaker, which does have a shiny finish so everyone can see the difference.
post #342 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

I don't think the F12 was meant as the replacement model for the older H-100 although they are similar size and specs. I think it was meant more to be a lower cost solution with similar performance.

The gloss tops can be found on several other models also including the PL-200, PA-120 and PA-10W and as said the VK-12, plus the H-100 can still be found.

The PA subs are not made by BIC and are irrelevant.

The H-100 is an older, discontinued model (though you can still find stock) which has "split" as BIC looks to be differentiating their line. This is the best sense I can make of it:

1. F12 = lowest cost solution, doesn't have the gloss black caps ($200-ish street price)

2. VK12 = upgrade, same "body" as the H-100 with gloss black caps but upgraded amp and woofer material ($300-ish street price)

3. PL-200 = brand new model, slightly bigger/heavier cabinet, more powerful amp (same as VK-12), etc. Ebay pricing looks like the same as the VK12, so perhaps it's the "new" top end model?
post #343 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The PA subs are not made by BIC and are irrelevant.

According to Mike Embers at Acousticsounddesign they are. At any rate whether they are or aren't they are is still relevant to the topic of models with the Piano gloss top with similar price and performance.
post #344 of 2834
PA and BIC are not the same company; perhaps you are confusing the fact that they both outsource to the same factory in China? I guess it's relevant if you expand the scope of the argument beyond my original response, but whatever...

anyway, this is a silly discussion. The F12 doesn't have gloss black caps and the other models do, we can all agree
post #345 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

PA and BIC are not the same company; perhaps you are confusing the fact that they both outsource to the same factory in China? I guess it's relevant if you expand the scope of the argument beyond my original response, but whatever...

anyway, this is a silly discussion. The F12 doesn't have gloss black caps and the other models do, we can all agree

Agreed on all aspects, lol. I was just going by what Mike told me, no confusion in what he said, right or wrong.
post #346 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

Well, if the "MP3"s are of the same quality (bitrate, etc) as "CD" music, then yeah, sure it will sound the same. But there's no way that will compare to the quality of a DTS-MA-HD soundtrack on a BluRay. All I was saying is that higher quality speakers will reveal the difference, between say CDs and DTS-MA-HD, whereas if you have inferior speakers, you probably wouldn't notice a difference between those two.

Painted, veneer, whatever. The point is, the thing is the ugliest thing in my house, no doubt (and it certainly doesn't look anything like a piano). By "matte" I just meant it is by no means shiny. I'm not complaining about it, I'm just giving my opinion. I don't regret buying it at all... I knew what I was getting into. I was buying it for the sound and moreover, the price. I'm pleased with it's performance within the sub $200 price range, but wanted to make sure potential buyers understood what they are getting into in the aesthetics department.

Bottom line, it looks only slightly worse than my Energy C series speakers' veneer finish, but it is so huge and cubish that it makes it much less attractive than them.
I will try to remember to post a picture of the sub next to an Energy C100 and an Energy Take Classic satellite speaker, which does have a shiny finish so everyone can see the difference.

Absolutely, any of the movies I've played with DTS MA HD are increadible!! My speakers are old but are still of pretty good quality and some of the movies I've watched since setting everything up with the F12 are mind blowing.
I guess I have mine tucked far enough in the corner and not out in the open I don't see it so much. When I've removed the front cover, some house guests have actually pointed it out and said how cool they thought it looked, nobody said ugly and some have asked for details on how they can get one after they saw and heard it! So far 1 of my friends have ordered one online and one went to HD in Oakville and picked one up.
post #347 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound Master BIC View Post

When I've removed the front cover, some house guests have actually pointed it out and said how cool they thought it looked, nobody said ugly...

Ah, perhaps that's my problem. I'm running with the grille on!
Well, soon enough I'll be running with the grille off for a while anyway, because I have to send it in for a replacement (as noted earlier in the thread). I think all my speakers look better with naked drivers, but that's just me.
However, I'd like to try to keep out dust (and my kitty cat, although I'd imagine she'd be more inclined to mess with the grille, than the driver... the grille probably looks like a scratching post to her ).
post #348 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoshFrosh View Post

Ah, perhaps that's my problem. I'm running with the grille on!
Well, soon enough I'll be running with the grille off for a while anyway, because I have to send it in for a replacement (as noted earlier in the thread). I think all my speakers look better with naked drivers, but that's just me.
However, I'd like to try to keep out dust (and my kitty cat, although I'd imagine she'd be more inclined to mess with the grille, than the driver... the grille probably looks like a scratching post to her ).


I agree, it would be nice to leave the cover off full time but they are dust magnets. No cats here but kids love to poke their fingers in everything.
post #349 of 2834
For those of you who have experience with subs, if you had the choice between a BIC F12 for $200/shipped, or a Polk Audio PSW110 for $200+shipping, which would you go with? Are the BIC's just as good as Polks?
post #350 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctevans1 View Post

For those of you who have experience with subs, if you had the choice between a BIC F12 for $200/shipped, or a Polk Audio PSW110 for $200+shipping, which would you go with? Are the BIC's just as good as Polks?

The F12 no question. Larger Driver, Lower Frequency Extension and more powerful BASH designed amp and overall higher output capability. No contest.
post #351 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakeman02 View Post

The F12 no question. Larger Driver, Lower Frequency Extension and more powerful BASH designed amp and overall higher output capability. No contest.

That's what I was hoping I would hear
Even though I have never had any Polk speakers, I at least know about the brand. Until today I wasn't aware of BIC America, but all the good things I was reading in this thread really got me interested, and after what you said, I think I'll be buying an F12 really soon!

Thanks!
post #352 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctevans1 View Post

For those of you who have experience with subs, if you had the choice between a BIC F12 for $200/shipped, or a Polk Audio PSW110 for $200+shipping, which would you go with? Are the BIC's just as good as Polks?

The BIC F12 without any question. I previously bought a PSW 110 and returned it after 2 weeks. It was horrible for movies, for music it was good.

I love my F12, it brings my DVDs to life.
post #353 of 2834
Polk Audio makes some fine speakers (I run them as the "5" in my 5.1 set-up). Subs don't seem to be their strength, however. FWIW, I run a BIC H-100 as the ".1" in my system.
post #354 of 2834
After reading the previous page, I cancelled the order I just placed with Provantage and reordered through Beach Audio. However, I have a feeling they are coming from the same distributor as both websites show 11 units in stock. Probably should have left the original order alone, it was cheaper through Provantage.
post #355 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaee View Post

The BIC F12 without any question. I previously bought a PSW 110 and returned it after 2 weeks. It was horrible for movies, for music it was good.

I love my F12, it brings my DVDs to life.

How bad is the PSW110 for movies. I mostly listen to music and can get one for $162 total. My other options are the Bic F12, or H-100, or PL200(if I really stretch my budget), but I'm worried about how they handle music. I'm building a 5.1 system and currently own Monitor 60 fronts and have an Onkyo 607 on the way. Monitor 30 surrounds and a CS10 center are planned.
post #356 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctevans1 View Post

For those of you who have experience with subs, if you had the choice between a BIC F12 for $200/shipped, or a Polk Audio PSW110 for $200+shipping, which would you go with? Are the BIC's just as good as Polks?

As already mentioned, the F12 for SURE! No contest, different league.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaee View Post

The BIC F12 without any question. I previously bought a PSW 110 and returned it after 2 weeks. It was horrible for movies, for music it was good.

I love my F12, it brings my DVDs to life.

I have to agree, I'm watching 3 or 4 bluray movies a week now, even older DVD's are better than ever. It's also brought new life to music I haven't listened to in years as well!
post #357 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erickat600 View Post

How bad is the PSW110 for movies. I mostly listen to music and can get one for $162 total. My other options are the Bic F12, or H-100, or PL200(if I really stretch my budget), but I'm worried about how they handle music. I'm building a 5.1 system and currently own Monitor 60 fronts and have an Onkyo 607 on the way. Monitor 30 surrounds and a CS10 center are planned.

the Polk misses the low end frequencies, explosions, gun shots, etc are not felt .
post #358 of 2834
Thanks for all your input, guys. That's what I love about this forum, no BS, no flaming, just helpful people with helpful answers.

I ordered my F12 from Beach Audio and should have it on June 1st. Then, seeing as how I've never used a sub before, I'm sure I'll be bugging you all for suggestions on settings and placement
post #359 of 2834
BIC F12 - Rubber surrounds or Foam surrounds?
The material around the F12 speaker, is it made of rubber or foam or else?
post #360 of 2834
Quote:
Originally Posted by t2436 View Post

BIC F12 - Rubber surrounds or Foam surrounds?
The material around the F12 speaker, is it made of rubber or foam or else?

It's foam. Not sure if it's butyl rubber/foam or pure foam, pretty sure just foam.
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