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Saga of the "Old Vic"

post #1 of 1144
Thread Starter 

Updated (index added, original post follows):

Project: DIY HT, approx 15'x26'x10' in basement dug under existing house, IB sub, absorption/diffusion acoustic design, motorized hidden entrance, star ceiling, room within room construction, CIH curved screen, three rows.

Current Status:









Enjoying the theater and still working on the entrance

The starting point (a distant memory):


Thread Index:
1. Basement dig! start / complete
2. Adjacent Garage Remodel: start / complete
3. Framing: start / complete
4. HVAC
5. Skinning the room with OSB
6. Drywall: start / complete
7. IB Sub: start / complete
8. Riser
9. Stage
10. Soffits
11. Star Ceiling: start / complete
12. Design Details & Color
13. Acoustic Treatment: Front / Sides
14. QRD Diffusor Panels: start / complete
15. Quiet Extraction Fan
16. Hardwood Trim: Soffits start Soffits complete
17. Soffit lights: start
18. Carpet & hardwood Floor
19. Seats are in!
20. Walnut wall trim
21. Triggered Outlets
22. 2.4:1 Curved Screen/Masking start / completed (separate thread)
23. Columns start finish
24. Hushbox and A-lens build calibration
25. Media Library
26. Backlight Poster Boxes

Gear:
Subs: Front: DIY IB design with 4x18" Fi drivers

         Rear: 2x Klipsch KW120-THX
Speakers: Klipsch THX Ultra 2 (wired for 11.2 with 9.2 active)
Amps: 2x Berhinger EP4000 (IB sub/rear sub/buttkicker)

         1x Outlaw Model 7700 (7 channel)

         1x Outlaw Model 7500 (5 channels)
Pre/Pro: Integra DHC-80.1
Sub EQ: Berhinger DCX2496 (for 3 channel sub EQ)
Source Player: Oppo BDP-83
Projector: JVC RS40 / Prismasonic HD-6000R cylindrical anamorphic lens
Screen: DIY 130" CIH (2.4:1) w/ automated masking
Media Server: Dune Smart H1

Media Vault: QNAP TS-859+ (16Tb)
Other: Sonos wireless music distribution

          ButtKicker LFE

          Google ChromeCast

UPS: APC J15 (AV equipment)

       APC Smart-UPS (NAS, network)

Rack: Middle Atlantic sliding rack with custom faceplates

  

===================== Original Post =====================

Hi All,

So my dedicated home theater tale begins and I've no idea when it's going to end...

First a thanks for the fantastic goldmine of collective expertise on this forum and the wealth of inspiration. It's been nearly 10 years since the HT bug infected me, about 1 year of reading this forum and thus far about 8 weeks of construction.

The Details:
Approx 30' x 15'4" x 10' space created by converting a under house crawl space into a basement.
Emphasis on acoustic isolation: built as a room within a room, independent ceiling joists, isolated subfloor, DD or TD & GG, communicating door entry, etc
Approx 11' curved CIH AT screen, stage, raised seating
Two rows of three chairs and bar seating at the rear
"Sealed Box" construction - soffits, electrical, etc will all be run inside of the drywall shell
Named "The Old Vic"

I think the most unusual aspect is the starting point. I don't live in the mid-west where everybody has huge basements yet I really wanted an isolated space (well actually the WAF mandated it ;-). So I came up with the idea of excavating out one of my crawl space areas under the house and retrofitting a basement! I'm doing just about all the work myself except for the excavation... I know when I'm beat.

Here is the design so far. It does not show any acoustic treatment/basetraps although these are planned but rather concentrates on the use of space and audio isolation from the rest of the house. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts...

The theater layout:


Floor & Ceiling Construction:
 


Edited by Moggie - 11/18/13 at 6:58am
post #2 of 1144
Thread Starter 
The starting point (original crawl space):


A complete mess of HVAC ductwork that is in the way.


Adjacent crawl space where water heater / HVAC systems are to be moved:
post #3 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Job #1 - Clearing pipes/wires/ductwork from Theater space:




Job #2 - Water Heater / HVAC relocation in adjacent crawl space:





Job #3 - Garage Subpanel and new stairs to theater. I have 4 dedicated 20A circuits and 1 15A circuit. Is that enough?
post #4 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Job #4 - The Great Escape (aka Excavation):






My wife is not happy about the dust ... how does it get though the floor into the room above?
post #5 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Ok, that's it for now. Most of the concrete work has been completed but I haven't sorted the photos yet.

Cheers.

- Paul.
post #6 of 1144
Looks like a cool build! Similar to the one in Electronic House a few issues back. Can't wait to see more!
post #7 of 1144


What is holding up that mass of concrete? It makes me nervous just looking at it.
post #8 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

What is holding that mass of concrete up? It makes me nervous just looking at it.

It makes me even more nervous living over it I have confidence in the team performing this work. The ground is very solid and they are using a line of "pipe-jacks" to hold up the existing foundation whilst they create a new one underneath. Still, I'll be happy when the concrete is 100% done ... it's very close now.
post #9 of 1144
What is the acoustic foam in the floor? I have never seen that.

Did you consider acoustikmat which is occasionally recommended here by the guru's?

Awesome build.

Did you consider adding a half bath?
post #10 of 1144
This will be pretty sweet when its all done I wish I would have had that extra 6' for a bar setup. my room is 14'.4 x 24' and I love my big screen I know you will too
post #11 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_pilgrim View Post

What is the acoustic foam in the floor? I have never seen that.

Did you consider acoustikmat which is occasionally recommended here by the guru's?

Awesome build.

Did you consider adding a half bath?

Half bath? Is that a sarcastic comment that you expect my theater to fill with water

The floor foam I have I bought from a friend who remodeled his apartment using QuietWood. The foam is what they sell for floating a floor. It doesn't have much mass but will at least decouple the floor. Well that's the theory. I'll check out acoustikmat since I'm still a couple of weeks away from the starting the interior framing.
post #12 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by W00lly View Post

This will be pretty sweet when its all done I wish I would have had that extra 6' for a bar setup. my room is 14'.4 x 24' and I love my big screen I know you will too

Thanks, I'm really excited about a big CIH setup. I was reading your build just the other day -- you don't need bar seating, you have a fabulous bar outside the theater!
post #13 of 1144
Any build that uses a mini bobcat definately gets instant wow factor, very cool. Your project looks great. I also question the layers you have for the flooring though. Do you think you need the dricore with the other 2 layers above. I suppose you want the 1/4 inch air gap but from what I've seen on Holmes on Homes he attaches foam directly to the cement floor. What ever you do, good luck. Nice work so far.
post #14 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

It makes me even more nervous living over it I have confidence in the team performing this work. The ground is very solid and they are using a line of "pipe-jacks" to hold up the existing foundation whilst they create a new one underneath. Still, I'll be happy when the concrete is 100% done ... it's very close now.

- Paul

I didn't know about this technique.... interesting. I would feel weird walking around above that!
post #15 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by oman321 View Post

Any build that uses a mini bobcat definately gets instant wow factor, very cool. Your project looks great. I also question the layers you have for the flooring though. Do you think you need the dricore with the other 2 layers above. I suppose you want the 1/4 inch air gap but from what I've seen on Holmes on Homes he attaches foam directly to the cement floor. What ever you do, good luck. Nice work so far.

Well I'm no expert, just reading, learning and applying some common sense. I started another thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1116502 about isolation and Dennis Erskine asked about the floor so I thought I'd start this construction thread to get some advice. In my situation I need to be careful about moisture. I've already identified a few problem areas that can be addressed with external drainage and fixing a badly designed roof run off. Still, I'm being cautious and assuming that some moisture will make it's way into the basement. The dricore idea was simply to allow the floor to breath. I could have built directly on that but in an attempt to isolate the room I added the floating false floor. The choice of foam was simply that I got it for free and I *assume* it will do the job -- its called QuietFoam from Quiet Solutions. But, if wrong, I'm hoping the forum experts will set me straight.
post #16 of 1144
I used the quiet foam but didn't use dricore because of the cost I used delta FL then foam then 3/4 OSB

http://www.spycor.com/Cosella_Dorken...FQFvGgodSVoB1g
post #17 of 1144
Moggie,

The foam is a standard 3/8" closed cell cross linked polyethylene. It's 3/8" packing foam, but acoustically tested in a floor assembly.

You are looking to acoustically isolate the floor or is the foam for cushion?
post #18 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Hi Ted,

I'm looking to acoustically isolate the floor. The cushioning effect and extra thermal benefits are nice but not the primary focus. Are there better solutions that QuietFoam?
post #19 of 1144
Hey ted, Im waiting for your responce. My thought is why he would worry about sound transfer through a concrete floor? Seems to me a 4 inch concrete floor is 10 times more sound proof than 10 layers of sheetrock/GG. Thanx to you and John in minneapolis for all your knowledge. Chris
post #20 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by mndentguy View Post

My thought is why he would worry about sound transfer through a concrete floor? Seems to me a 4 inch concrete floor is 10 times more sound proof than 10 layers of sheetrock/GG. Thanx to you and John in minneapolis for all your knowledge. Chris


While concrete is good at providing mass once it starts vibrating (impact) it is a pretty good conductor of sound. Ever been in a building when they are using a jackhammer to break up some concrete? you can hear it several floors away. keeping vibrations from the concrete is a good strategy, pouring the concrete floor with gaps to adjoining foundation elements could also help. I've seen construction where they used rubber gaskets to isolate one floor slab from another.
post #21 of 1144
wow. what a treat going down those stairs to this new area will be.
post #22 of 1144
The 3/8 inch foam will not provide sound isolation. It will get compressed a little, and therefore provide some spring effect to create resonance. But the resonant frequency will be high. It needs to be very low, below the lowest frequency you want to isolate.

- Terry
post #23 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Montlick View Post

The 3/8 inch foam will not provide sound isolation. It will get compressed a little, and therefore provide some spring effect to create resonance. But the resonant frequency will be high. It needs to be very low, below the lowest frequency you want to isolate.

- Terry

And that's not going to happen without an air gap and a lot of decoupled mass on the raised floor. Tall order for floors without sacrificing height.
post #24 of 1144
In that case would the experts say Moggie should either do the dricore or do the delta and t&g and forgo the foam?
post #25 of 1144
He already owns the foam, it can't hurt, so what the heck
post #26 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the feedback. I think the consensus is that because this is the only room at this grade (other than the garage) and there is a lot of concrete and mass and distance to the rest of the house it is futile trying to improve the isolation of the floor since it will be good enough in a HT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

While concrete is good at providing mass once it starts vibrating (impact) it is a pretty good conductor of sound. Ever been in a building when they are using a jackhammer to break up some concrete? you can hear it several floors away. keeping vibrations from the concrete is a good strategy, pouring the concrete floor with gaps to adjoining foundation elements could also help. I've seen construction where they used rubber gaskets to isolate one floor slab from another.

Funny you should mention this. The jackhammers have been chipping away and I've been feeling in in the second floor. But the frequency is very very low, right?. I've also seen a recording studio being built with a rubber isolated concrete pad but that construction seem tricky in a basement and probably very expensive.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hmmm5 View Post

wow. what a treat going down those stairs to this new area will be.

Thanks! I'm half done with some 3D models and have just begun to "feel" what it will be like.

One thing occurred to me which I need to figure out a solution: if I'm locked away in a basement soundproof box I need a way to monitor my young daughter at night 2 stories above me. Probably a motion detector wired to the theater, but I'm curious what novel solutions people have come up with.

Cheers,
post #27 of 1144
Also plan a hard wired smoke detector connected to those upstairs so that you can escape the bunker in time.
post #28 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

One thing occurred to me which I need to figure out a solution: if I'm locked away in a basement soundproof box I need a way to monitor my young daughter at night 2 stories above me. Probably a motion detector wired to the theater, but I'm curious what novel solutions people have come up with.

Cheers,

- Paul.

First, very intriguing build! Regarding your question, the solution is simple and may not cost you a dime if you still have your baby monitor. When going down in the basement to catch a movie, I put on the monitor in the room where the kids are sleeping and plug in the receiver piece on the end of my stage area. I just have an audio one with red flashing lights so when they start to "dance" I pause and run up the two flights. If you want to really keep an eye out you could spring for a video baby monitor. It is quite rare that we get through an entire movie without interruption.

And don't worry, YOU will enjoy the movie just fine because it's always the mom who goes running!
post #29 of 1144
I sincerely hope you have a licensed (PE) structural engineer involved in this and have an approved permit from your county or city.

Under cutting those footing is very dangerous. Not impossible to do but it requires a lot of engineering work.

Where are you located - I hope it isn't in on the California coast.
post #30 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC View Post

Also plan a hard wired smoke detector connected to those upstairs so that you can escape the bunker in time.

Good point. It wasn't on my wiring list, but is now. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by queendvd2 View Post

First, very intriguing build! Regarding your question, the solution is simple and may not cost you a dime if you still have your baby monitor. When going down in the basement to catch a movie, I put on the monitor in the room where the kids are sleeping and plug in the receiver piece on the end of my stage area.

I was thinking of something a little more integrated but this would be a quick and easy approach if we still have the baby monitor... and you are right, that's the wife's job Luckily she hates computers so won't be reading this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

I sincerely hope you have a licensed (PE) structural engineer involved in this

Two actually Seriously I was a little hesitant at first and explored a number of companies/techniques/plans to perform this work. When I got past the contractors that "think" they can do it to those that "know" how to do it it turned out to be a relatively straightforward process and certainly far simpler than other projects they routinely do. Although it is not obvious in the photos there is a lot of temporary bracing and reinforcement that has been put into place. The end result is much stronger than the original foundation (in the words of the inspector). As soon as they clean up and I get my space back I'll take some more photos.
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