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Saga of the "Old Vic" - Page 24

post #691 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raZorTT View Post

You make it look WAY too easy!

Ah, you haven't seen the grey hairs this HT has given me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnbomb View Post

Can't wait to see a video showing the finished product in action. Killer!

I'll certainly post a video IF it works out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

You are in such a different league from me, it isn't even funny.

I love DIY and frankly, am impressed with anyone else who takes on a DIY HT project.

Quote:
Originally Posted by erkq View Post

BTW... haven't forgotten your kind offer. I'll PM you after the holidays.

Anytime!
post #692 of 1144
Wow Moggie, not only can you handle the wood with the highest degree of craftmanship, but your metal bending/engineering is there as welll???

Quite nice!!!
post #693 of 1144
The feelings of inadequacy can be so overwhelming while visiting certain threads
post #694 of 1144
Wow, amazing, well done... This isn't DIY its DIP (Do It Professionally)!
post #695 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys. Hopefully I can make one last update on the screen before the Christmas malaise kicks in.

FusionRX, love the term "DIP".. my wife could probably come up with another interpretation though.
post #696 of 1144
This theater (to some) may inspire but to me it makes me want to hang it up and just QUIT. I say this because the quality, elegance and sheer beauty of your work is so OVER THE TOP Amazing that it would be pointless for me to continue. You my friend are one truly skilled individual and your craftsmanship and attention to detail is like no other that I have seen. You should be very proud. While catching up on your thread I damn near came to tears over the beautiful work. Congrats and I cant wait to see more.
post #697 of 1144
I've read your whole thread. I must say I'm impressed. I'm very interested to see how the motorized masking system works out.

I wish I had the space to do a dedicated theater. My basement has ~7 foot ceilings, and is 25x10. I can barely fit a couch in there, on top of not being able to get anything down the stairs because of a narrow 90 degree turn.

The summer (retirement) home, however, is slightly more promising with a 13' width and outdoor access to bring in furniture, albeit with slightly lower ceilings.

Time to move!
post #698 of 1144
Incredible work. The numerous solutions you come up with for different problems are truly inspiring.
post #699 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iusteve View Post

This theater (to some) may inspire but to me it makes me want to hang it up and just QUIT. I say this because the quality, elegance and sheer beauty of your work is so OVER THE TOP Amazing that it would be pointless for me to continue. You my friend are one truly skilled individual and your craftsmanship and attention to detail is like no other that I have seen. You should be very proud. While catching up on your thread I damn near came to tears over the beautiful work. Congrats and I cant wait to see more.

Are you kidding? I'm not sure that I've posted in your build thread but I'm watching it closely!

You made me blush reading this but let me answer with a story. Ten years ago I had the inclination to build a HT. Only recently have I had the means, time and location to make it happen. A few years back I found and joined AVS and read build threads by BIGmouthinDC, SMX and Swithy (to name but a few) and the professionals like Dennis Erskine and was totally in awe. I felt inadequate and like you felt like giving up with my own HT. Despite this I started at the beginning and tackled each step with my own personal edict of "if someone else can do it so can I" and slowly (although already 6 months over budget) I am where I am today (still a few of months short of completion). I do admit that I am a true engineer -- software by vocation, electrical by training and mechanical by inclination as well as having a personality flaw of being a perfectionist. Although I am working on the latter. I post my progress as a way to inspire others as those original threads I read AND the myriad of brilliant current threads now inspire me.

Anyway, I'm flattered with your comment. Thank you.
post #700 of 1144
Thread Starter 
This is probably going to be my last update of 2010 (boy has it gone quickly) since I'll be enjoying a little Christmas vacation. I had really hoped to have my screen hung by now in preparation for a new projector in Jan but it looks likes my time line has slipped again.

More parts arrived today including the Somfy motors. They didn't send the darn software to program them as promised so I'm going to have to track that down. Also I found out that you need a special device ($) to perform the one time setting of the limits. I'm going to chat with customer support on this but it seems daft to have such an advanced and windows-programmable motor that requires a dedicated device to perform a one time setup task? Anyway the motors look very high quality.



I did manage to complete the screen border shaping/framing as well as creating a mechanism to allow the removable sides to accurately press into place. I thought a single dry biscuit joint would suffice but in order to keep the accuracy needed for such a minimal screen/mask distance I added two additional dry dowel guides. I was thinking of adding a magnet coupling but the sides seem to fit snugly enough that this may not be necessary. You can see the planned location of the Somfy motor. I still need to route a recess on the frame sides to give room for the rolled fabric -- I think this screen/mask will end up being only 3.5" thick! You can also see the end of the 1/8" aluminum strip that acts as a spacer under the border.



Here is a view of the 1/8" gap (that exists all around the frame) where I hope to run the mask and sled.



There is no margin for error with tolerances this tight. Fingers crossed.
post #701 of 1144
Have you thought about using constant force tension springs to maintain tension on the masking? Here's a diagram I drew up when I was designing my masking system (which I haven't had time to build yet).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16972989
post #702 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by pocoloco View Post

Have you thought about using constant force tension springs to maintain tension on the masking? Here's a diagram I drew up when I was designing my masking system (which I haven't had time to build yet).

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post16972989

Hi Pocoloco,

Thanks for the reminder! Actually I recall reading your post last year. I'm not planning on using acutal "constant force springs" but rather something that approximates to a constant spring, specifically a bungy cord! This is going to run through the t-track (and parallel channel) to the other side of the screen. In theory I can tension this when the mask is at the 4:3 position and it will still have plenty of stretch at the fully open position. The idea is that this is about as simply and as low profile a solution as possible. It might be clearer by looking at my early post which shows the channels in the screen frame.

Cheers.
post #703 of 1144
Hey Moggie,

I know you are busy working your magic on the automatic screen masking, but you wouldn't happen to have handy a list of the xantech parts you end up getting? Looks like I need to source some xantech gear.

Cheers,
Simon
post #704 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raZorTT View Post

Hey Moggie,

I know you are busy working your magic on the automatic screen masking, but you wouldn't happen to have handy a list of the xantech parts you end up getting? Looks like I need to source some xantech gear.

Cheers,
Simon

Simon, no worries, I'm actually on vacation trying to navigate the shut down British transit system..

The Xantech parts I used are:
79144 - this is a single zone (but allows multiple IR sensors) and 10 IR outputs. More than I needed but plenty of room for expansion.
781ERGPS - power supply for above
DL95 - IR sensor mounted above screen
282D - IR emitter (haven't had a need for this yet)

All my IR connections are home made direct wire connections with 3.5mm mono plugs either end except for the GE which has a IR connection terminal. The IR sensor is connected via cat6 cable.

I picked up an additonal cheap IR sensor from another brand which I can't remember off the top of my head. This can be wired in parallel with the main sensor so I can control when in my little alcove facing away from the screen.

Hope this helps.
post #705 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Whilst I'm waiting for all my screen parts to arrive I thought I'd fix the last remaining automation problem I have with my rack which is that two of the amplifiers do not have a remote trigger ability. To solve this I built a dual 20A outlet with remote triggers. The design is based on a couple of 30A relays from Omron (like this).

The problem is that these relays require 160mA to drive them so cannot be driven directly from most 12v trigger outputs on AV equipment. The solution was to build a simple buffer to allow easy connection. Whilst I was at it I added an additional 'dry contact' trigger, a way to switch both outlets from a single trigger and LED indicators. The schematic is shown below:

The components are non critical and the values shown were to work with the transistors I had at hand. I used a old wall wart to provide power. The max draw on the triggers is 1.8mA per trigger. Contact me if you are interested in more specifics.



The whole thing is built in a cast aluminum case. One thing I overlooked with the simple circuit design was the fact that the 'dry contact' jacks could not be grounded. Rather and re-engineer the circuit which was already finished, I cheated and mounted these on a plastic insert.

Nice work! I'm curious, why did you go this route instead of a commercial product? Just happened to have the components lying around?

Furman has a nice line of power relays / sequencers / triggered outlets...
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=MP-20Q
or perhaps...
http://www.furmansound.com/product.p...=01&id=PWRPORT
post #706 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Simon, no worries, I'm actually on vacation trying to navigate the shut down British transit system..

The Xantech parts I used are:
79144 - this is a single zone (but allows multiple IR sensors) and 10 IR outputs. More than I needed but plenty of room for expansion.
781ERGPS - power supply for above
DL95 - IR sensor mounted above screen
282D - IR emitter (haven't had a need for this yet)

All my IR connections are home made direct wire connections with 3.5mm mono plugs either end except for the GE which has a IR connection terminal. The IR sensor is connected via cat6 cable.

I picked up an additonal cheap IR sensor from another brand which I can't remember off the top of my head. This can be wired in parallel with the main sensor so I can control when in my little alcove facing away from the screen.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Moggie,

That's a huge help!

Hope you aren't one of the poor people I saw on the news lining up for the Eurostar! My Aunt and Uncle were stuck in Frankfurt airport for 2.5 days because they weren't able to get into Heathrow

Cheers,
Simon
post #707 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raZorTT View Post

Thanks Moggie,

That's a huge help!

Hope you aren't one of the poor people I saw on the news lining up for the Eurostar! My Aunt and Uncle were stuck in Frankfurt airport for 2.5 days because they weren't able to get into Heathrow

Cheers,
Simon

Thankfully no. I was on the second to last flight allowed into Heathrow before it closed. I only had a 3 hour delay getting my baggage (I swear there must have been one guy hand carrying two bags at time) but there was chaos everywhere and a lot of upset travellers. I'm an expat Brit and it disappoints me that a supposedly sophisticated country falls apart at 4" of snow...
post #708 of 1144
only sophisticated to man. we can fly to the moon, but can't hold a candle to nature.
post #709 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Nice work! I'm curious, why did you go this route instead of a commercial product? Just happened to have the components lying around?

Furman has a nice line of power relays / sequencers / triggered outlets...
http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=MP-20Q
or perhaps...
http://www.furmansound.com/product.p...=01&id=PWRPORT

The truth is that I didn't research commercial products in any depth. I just launched into building my own since I had all the parts other than the relays. The Furman MP-20Q would have worked fine but I would have needed two of them. So at the end of the day I saved about $140, have a little more functionality and have the satisfaction of building myself.
post #710 of 1144
Hey Moggie.. Happy New Year. Get your feet back on American soil yet?

The "Moggie-Matic-Masking" screen build is a beautiful piece of precision work..
post #711 of 1144
Been watching your thread closely. Your build is similar to what I am planning (Similar room dimensions, IB sub, and star ceiling. It looks like you even used the same color of GOM that I had in my last theater.) I've wanted an IB sub for a long time but just recently moved to a house where it is possible. I already have the drivers (4 fi IB18's) ready to go. Still have lots to do as far as planning goes, but anxious to get started. I'm not sure mine is going to be as ambitious as yours, not sure I have the patience for that.
post #712 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Once the soffit was finished I was able to install 22 of these

Moggie,

What 3" cans did you end up using. I was trying to zoom in but couldn't see the brand. Do they allow light through the top of the fixture or is there no light seapage through the enclosure? I'm hoping to do something similar and disguise it with crown moulding. Also wondering how high would I have to make the crown so you don't see the enclosures from below. I know you had to beef up yours a bit to hide them. Last question, do they fully light up the room? I'd like to get a way with as few as possible.
post #713 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcascio View Post

Moggie,

What 3" cans did you end up using. I was trying to zoom in but couldn't see the brand. Do they allow light through the top of the fixture or is there no light seapage through the enclosure? I'm hoping to do something similar and disguise it with crown moulding. Also wondering how high would I have to make the crown so you don't see the enclosures from below. I know you had to beef up yours a bit to hide them. Last question, do they fully light up the room? I'd like to get a way with as few as possible.

Hi, the cans are from Commercial Electric and were carried by my local HD store (around $12 each I recall). The cans do have various holes in the side of the can so some light does leak out. I covered a couple of holes with aluminum tape to avoid unwanted light reflections, the other holes point into my soffits and so aren't a problem (note that I added an "inverted tray" behind the regular tray). These cans carry a electrical junction box at the top of the can so they measure just under 6" in height (can + box).

I have quite a lot of cans and they do light up the room although I wouldn't call it a bright room even with all bulbs on 100% power. However, the darker and less reflective you make your room the more wattage you will need. I noticed the difference after I fitted the carpet and wall fabric. In fact I was surprised that my 1100w of lighting was about right and not the overkill I was expecting.

Hope this helps.
post #714 of 1144
What is the height from the inner side of he trim ring to the top of the can?
Thanks.
post #715 of 1144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Hi, the cans are from Commercial Electric and were carried by my local HD store (around $12 each I recall). The cans do have various holes in the side of the can so some light does leak out. I covered a couple of holes with aluminum tape to avoid unwanted light reflections, the other holes point into my soffits and so aren't a problem (note that I added an "inverted tray" behind the regular tray). These cans carry a electrical junction box at the top of the can so they measure just under 6" in height (can + box).

I have quite a lot of cans and they do light up the room although I wouldn't call it a bright room even with all bulbs on 100% power. However, the darker and less reflective you make your room the more wattage you will need. I noticed the difference after I fitted the carpet and wall fabric. In fact I was surprised that my 1100w of lighting was about right and not the overkill I was expecting.

Hope this helps.

Very helpful.

They look to be this one:
http://www.homedepot.com/Commercial-...atalogId=10053

They may be limited to installation into 5/8" max drywall.

It is good to know that even with 1100w it's still not as bright as one would think.

I'm trying to prevent having to build backer boxes for all these can lights and breaking through the sound proofing. Is there a lot of light bleeding through in cases where the light wouldn't be hidden? I'm assuming those holes are to let the light breathe so you can't cover them all.
post #716 of 1144
Thread Starter 
GRBoomer, 5 3/4" is the measurement you need.

Mario, you have the light link correct. The light spill is minimal but I had a couple of places where it reflected off the woodwork and detracted from the soffit light. I don't think the slots are for cooling. A tight fitting backer boxes would probably cause the lights to get hotter than covering some of these mounting slots.

Cheers.
post #717 of 1144
Thread Starter 
Boy am I slowing down towards the end of this build ... what with getting used to a new job and Christmas vacation I've only managed to push my screen build along a bit, but I thought I'd share the progress. At least I'm at the point where I just got out my wife's sewing machine to make the masking panels (time to learn another skill).

I fitted the aluminum t-track with epoxy glue and small wood screws. I didn't have any problem bending the track to the radius as it was secured in place. The track was routed flush with the wood but since the slider inserts stand proud 1/32" I glued some 1" UHMF tape next to the track. The idea was that this would create a low friction surface on which the masking panels would slide. You can also see that the frame has been covered with black velvet.



One problem I needed to solve was to figure out how the bungy cord springs where going to cross over with minimal friction. The solution was a combination of some guides and a tunnel for one of the runs. The guides are simply some small diameter aluminum pipe with a couple of washers:




The vertical frame members needed to be stiff (because they are only attached at the corners) and needed a surface on which the masking fabric would rub on. Because the masking mechanism is actually built into the frame they also needed to be hollowed out to provide space for the fabric as it rolls on the aluminum tube. The second picture shows a 1/2" rod embedded to provide the correct height for the fabric payout. I actually ended up using some aluminum tube for this function so it could be glued with epoxy. It was as this point that I tweaked the frame to be perfectly straight -- the aluminum rod acting as a stringer.



Now for the final assembly. First the screen material was stretched over the frame with small rubber o-rings. Then the aluminum strips where fastened through the holes punched in the face of the screen fabric. This pulled the screen perfectly curved and created the gap necessary for the masking mechanism. It turned out that my 1/8" gap was just a little overly optimistic. Everything did fit but it was a little tight for comfort so I used up the rest of my UHMF tape and increased the gap to 3/16" -- still not enough to create a shadow.



I also realized I needed to stop to prevent the slides from running off the middle of the channel during assembly.



This is the point where it starts to get hard to take photos because the Fidelio velvet is so black. The next two photos show one end of the screen with the masking roller fitted and the leading edge of the mask attached to the slides (but without the bungy cord tensioned). The frame sides press fit with a combination to two dowels and one dry biscuit joint to ensure accurate location.



The next couple of shots show the all important masking mechanism. Hopefully this is reasonably clear because it's kind of hard to describe.



This final photo clearly shows how the frame rides 3/16" off the fabric. BTW the leading edge of the masks is made from the aluminum extrusion used to hold door brush seals (McMasterCarr part # 8813T13) with the last 2" machined/filed flat to fit under the frame.



Hopefully next weekend I can fit the masking fabric...
post #718 of 1144
Thread Starter 
I'm clearing out my camera and thought these two shots might make the frame corner clearer. You can see the aluminum tube on which the fabric will ride and how the end of the t-track can be accessed.

post #719 of 1144
Insane
post #720 of 1144
...!!!

Next step is to start a screen frame/masking company?

I'll gladly volunteer to beta test .
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