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[UK] The Prisoner - Complete Series (1967) Coming to Blu-Ray April 27th- - Page 3

post #61 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinema Squid View Post

Fixed URL:...

Thanks!
Doug
post #62 of 149
I went ahead and ordered the UK Network set. It comes out earlier, it has better box art, it may have an extra disc of something (or more space devoted per episode), and I'm pretty sure it won't have a worse transfer than the US set.

I don't really care about region code since I have a region free Oppo. Should be nice!
post #63 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuther View Post

I thought I had read that myself, have no source to point too however.

Wasn't Night of the Living Dead shot in 16mm?

Quote:


Available here for the first time is the complete series, digitally restored in High Definition from the original 35mm film elements, presented at a quality level never previously seen.

From the networkdvd listing...

The listing also has:

Quote:


Exclusive book on the making of the series by Andrew Pixley.
‘Don’t Knock Yourself Out’ - this exclusive, feature-length documentary is the definitive look at the production of ‘The Prisoner’, with contributions from those involved in its creation

If those are really exclusive, they won't be in the A&E set...
post #64 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

I went ahead and ordered the UK Network set. It comes out earlier, it has better box art, it may have an extra disc of something (or more space devoted per episode), and I'm pretty sure it won't have a worse transfer than the US set.

I don't really care about region code since I have a region free Oppo. Should be nice!


If the picture of the UK release is judged better, I'll get the Oppo for Christmas if not sooner.
post #65 of 149
I'd like confirmation on that region code, myself. And how big the book is...
post #66 of 149
I decided to cancel my order for the Network set, but it does look much nicer.

I can't afford to buy 2 new BD players right now (because I'd want to watch the episodes on my main system when the wife is away, but in the basement system otherwise), so I'll settle for the A&E set. Unless we find out that the Network set is not Region B locked...

Doug
post #67 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

Unless we find out that the Network set is not Region B locked...

Doug

Unless you find out sooner, I will post my findings here as soon as I receive it. Amazon UK is supposed to ship me my copy on September 21, so I should receive it about a week later.
post #68 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Unless you find out sooner, I will post my findings here as soon as I receive it. Amazon UK is supposed to ship me my copy on September 21, so I should receive it about a week later.

Thanks, my trigger finger is ready to click-order the UK release but I'd rather not do it if it is Region B locked just from a device flexibility perspective. Seems less like a double-dip as an import from a different distributor...
post #69 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Unless you find out sooner, I will post my findings here as soon as I receive it. Amazon UK is supposed to ship me my copy on September 21, so I should receive it about a week later.

Thanks, Franchot. I'm looking forward to your comments.

Doug
post #70 of 149
I'm a longtime Prisoner fan and decided to take the plunge on the UK set (and a region mod kit for my Oppo). I've been looking at a lot of UK releases lately, and this one finally convinced me to dive in. Even if the transfer is the same as the US release, I like the extras and nicer packaging UK releases tend to get.

I'll post my impressions once I have it in hand.
post #71 of 149
Looks like the US version will be the same as the Network UK release, with all the same specials except for the book and the packaging.
post #72 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Looks like the US version will be the same as the Network UK release, with all the same specials except for the book and the packaging.

Really? Where can I read about this? Did you find an early review?

I certainly don't need some fancy over-sized packaging that won't fit on my shelf. The standard Network DVD (which I own) has a 288 page "Production Guide" included. I wonder if this is just the same book repackaged again? The standard DVD also has the special "Don't Knock Yourself Out." This is probably just recycled, also. And not in high-def.

I'd rather buy the US version if A&E acquired the same Blu-ray masters. But being burned by A&E on past "Prisoner" releases, I'd like to see some proof first.
post #73 of 149
From the back of the Network Standard DVD release:

Quote:


SPECIAL FEATURES INCLUDE:

• Limited edition special packaging
• ‘Don’t Knock Yourself Out’ - this exclusive, feature-length documentary is the definitive look at the production of ‘The Prisoner’, with contributions from those involved in its creation
• Newly restored original edit of ‘Arrival’ with an optional music-only soundtrack featuring Wilfred Josephs’ complete and abandoned score
• newly created 5.1 audio soundtracks for each show, plus the original mono soundtrack
• Production crew audio commentaries on seven episodes
• Trailers for all episodes
• Archive textless material, including the title sequence with clean themes by Ron Grainer, Wilfred Josephs and Robert Farnon
• Commercial Break Bumpers
• Behind-the-scenes footage, including much previously unseen
• Script and Production Documentation PDFs
• Image Galleries with Music Suites
• Exclusive book on the making of the series by Andrew Pixley
• And much, much more

The Network Blu-ray version looks to be exactly the same except for the discs being remastered to the Blu-ray standard. I'm two seconds away from canceling my Amazon UK order if A&E comes through...
post #74 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Really? Where can I read about this? Did you find an early review?

I certainly don't need some fancy over-sized packaging that won't fit on my shelf. The standard Network DVD (which I own) has a 288 page "Production Guide" included. I wonder if this is just the same book repackaged again? The standard DVD also has the special "Don't Knock Yourself Out." This is probably just recycled, also. And not in high-def.

I'd rather buy the US version if A&E acquired the same Blu-ray masters. But being burned by A&E on past "Prisoner" releases, I'd like to see some proof first.

http://tvshowsondvd.com/news/Prisone...-Blu-ray/12681

Says A&E has partnered with Network DVD to deliver the completely restored series. All the same extras as the UK set (minus the book).

The US set even appears to have one item the UK set doesn't have, a preview of A&E's new Prisoner mini-series.
post #75 of 149
Cool! Thanks for the link. (And saving me a few bucks/pounds. .)

Taking a second look...

Network release has 6 discs.
A&E release has 5 discs.

Hmmm. Not ready to bail out on my UK pre-order just yet.
post #76 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

Cool! Thanks for the link. (And saving me a few bucks/pounds. .)

Taking a second look...

Network release has 6 discs.
A&E release has 5 discs.

Hmmm. Not ready to bail out on my UK pre-order just yet.

Well, to counter you, the US set says it has a runtime of 884 minutes + extras. The UK sets lists a runtime of 850 minutes + extras.

So the UK set is posting the time with PAL speed up. Hopefully the UK set doesn't turn out to be like the European releases of Basic Instinct that had the 4% speedup problem and made everyone's voice higher pitched!
post #77 of 149
So conceivably the UK version could be putting the extras on a separate disc while the US version has the extras added to a disc or discs? Seems plausible.

Since this is being released in UK next week, hopefully a few early reviews will trickle in.
post #78 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franchot View Post

So conceivably the UK version could be putting the extras on a separate disc while the US version has the extras added to a disc or discs? Seems plausible.

Since this is being released in UK next week, hopefully a few early reviews will trickle in.

My real concern is with the PAL speedup. The UK DVD's have always had the speedup because they are 50 Hz. What if Network decided on the Blu-ray set, to keep 25 fps because that is what everyone is used to, instead of switching to 24 fps.
post #79 of 149
I know this was shot on 35mm film, but would that have been at 24fps or 25fps?

If it was the former, I presume it was speeded up for the original UK TV broadcast. If so, was it 'tampered' with (pitch shift, etc) to make it sound 'normal'?

Steve W
post #80 of 149
I have some more second hand details about both the Network and A&E releases. I am trying to get confirmation from A&E or Network, but I haven't heard anything yet.

Anyway, what I was told was: both versions are the Network transfer. Both are 1080p/24. Both have a runtime of 884 minutes for the episodes (Network's website is in error). The extras on both are nearly identical, and were provided by Network to A&E.

The Network release is 6 BD25 discs and the A&E release is 4 BD25 discs and one BD50 disc. On the UK version, discs 1-4 each have 4 episodes. Disc 5 has one episode + extras. Disc 6 is all extras. Some extras (commentaries, etc.) are spread across all discs.

The first 4 discs of the A&E release have identical content as the Network discs. Disc 5 has one episode, the A&E preview of the new mini-series, and all the extras.

There is a different look to the menu system on each release (A&E did their own menus, but used Networks transfers and audio).

So the only real difference in the releases is that the Network version has an exclusive book. The A&E version has the exclusive mini-series preview. The rest of the content is the same between sets.

No info on region coding.
post #81 of 149
Wnorris, can you find out if the audio is lossless? The Network website states DD5.1 and mono. It would be nice if the mono at least were lossless (my preference), or even better if both were lossless.

Thanks,
Doug
post #82 of 149
Wnorris,

Thanks again for some great information. Got the book already so I'll cancel my UK order and wait for the A&E set.
post #83 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Anyway, what I was told was: both versions are the Network transfer. Both are 1080p/24. Both have a runtime of 884 minutes for the episodes (Network's website is in error). The extras on both are nearly identical, and were provided by Network to A&E.

The Network release is 6 BD25 discs and the A&E release is 4 BD25 discs and one BD50 disc. On the UK version, discs 1-4 each have 4 episodes. Disc 5 has one episode + extras. Disc 6 is all extras. Some extras (commentaries, etc.) are spread across all discs.

Those are brutal numbers if true and does not bode well for the compression encode on the sets. Over 200-minutes of 1080p/24 material each on a BD-25, means extremely low video bitrates on every BD. They really went the cheapest way possible by not using more BD-50 discs. Sadly, this is likely the only release the show will see on Blu-ray.
post #84 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

Those are brutal numbers if true and does not bode well for the compression encode on the sets. Over 200-minutes of 1080p/24 material each on a BD-25, means extremely low video bitrates on every BD. They really went the cheapest way possible by not using more BD-50 discs. Sadly, this is likely the only release the show will see on Blu-ray.

This is just something I was told by a Sony DADC employee, and I would like to confirm it with either A&E or Network, which I am trying to do.

Keep in mind the show is 1.33:1, which won't require as much of a bitrate as other movies. The closest comparison I can think of is the Star Trek TOS. The Blu-ray for ST averaged 16 Mbs for video and 4 Mbs for lossless audio (so 20 Mbs total).

Now, TOS used BD50's and put 4-5 episodes per disc. However, it is more ocmplicated, because each episode has has seamless branching to let you show footage with old or new effects. So much of each episode is actually on the disc twice. And the extras for the set are smattered across all the discs, with some kind of interview features (usually more than one) on each disc, some in HD.

When you consider that every episode is on a disc ~1.5 times, plus features, you could probably get 6-8 episodes of Trek per BD50 without extras or branching. Or somewhere between 6-8 GB per episode.

So if the Prisoner doesn't have lossless audio (I didn't even think to ask, because I don't really care in this case), the space needed could be ~1/5 less than TOS (so 5-7 GB per episode). If all the features other than audio commentaries on on separate discs, you don't have that to deal with. So it is conceivable that you could get 4 episodes on a BD25 disc, at the same quality as the Star Trek TOS episodes. It's in the realm of possibility.

I'd be happy with that.
post #85 of 149
Again I'd return to the days of HD DVD and films like Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire.

157 minutes - Dolby TruHD lossless audio + 3 DD soundtracks - plenty of extras - Picture-in-Picture material - close to reference PQ & SQ.

All on a 30gb disc.

Steve W
post #86 of 149
Wnorris, everything you wrote above about the Trek set makes sense, with one small caveat:
The branching parts of each episode were fairly small, and included only the opening credits and a minute or two of effects shots. I'd estimate each episode at about 1.1 times the normal episode, not 1.5.

I'm curious: why aren't you interested in lossless audio on this set? Lossless audio should always be better, depending upon the quality of the source tapes, of course. When I watch the HD-DVD of Casablanca, the audio strikes me as sounding slightly muffled, even compared to other older films (e.g. The Third Man) which do have lossless audio. I know that might not be a fair comparison...

Doug
post #87 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by dougotte View Post

Wnorris, everything you wrote above about the Trek set makes sense, with one small caveat:
The branching parts of each episode were fairly small, and included only the opening credits and a minute or two of effects shots. I'd estimate each episode at about 1.1 times the normal episode, not 1.5.

I'm curious: why aren't you interested in lossless audio on this set? Lossless audio should always be better, depending upon the quality of the source tapes, of course. When I watch the HD-DVD of Casablanca, the audio strikes me as sounding slightly muffled, even compared to other older films (e.g. The Third Man) which do have lossless audio. I know that might not be a fair comparison...

Doug

Well, I'll diasagree. The entire opening sequence (2-3 minutes in itself) was branched, plus numerouse effects shots. Every return from commercial break has the Captains log narrated while the Enterprise orbits, so 3 breaks per episode. Any phaser fire, many shots where background can be seen through windows, painted backdrops were replaced with CGI backdrops. So often when on a planets surface, the entire segment (15-20 minutes) will have a new background. Then every space shot was redone, viewports, and any scene with a transport, etc. Any scene that that has the bridge's main screen has new effects, even if you don't notice. All around, I think there are about 60 new effects shots per episode. There is much more new effects than you realize, and the branch doesn't just happen immediately when the new effects shots occurs. Most branches occur several seconds before the effects shot, and a few even occur several minutes before at scene transitions.

Maybe it is a little less than 1.5X, but it is definately more than 1.1X.

EDIT: After some poking around, I found that the average size per episode of TOS, including the branching footage, subtitles, lossless audio track, and mono audio track is 8.75 GB per episode.

So if the Prisoner had all of that , you would have to compress more heavily to fit it on a BD25. But I'm not sure it will have the lossless audio (which would save about 1.5 GB there by itself). It also won't have branching material.

So even if TOS is only 10% branching and you remove lossless audio, it makes it 6.5 GB per episode. Close enough that I could easily see the Prisoner having 4 episodes with very high quality transfers on a BD25.

It isn't all doom and gloom.
post #88 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitchen_space View Post

Yeah, I saw it as a kid and was blown away.

I saw it as a kid when it was first shown in the US and between this and The Avangers, I was convinced that the British were far cooler and far hipper than anyone I knew. I saw it many years later and it seemed like pretentious, pseudo-intellectual tripe. I remember watching some professor-type with a tweed jacket and leather elbow patches going on excitedly about all the metaphors, all the satire and parody and all the references to the government of the time and I thought, this man still lives in his mother's basement, doesn't he?

It reminds me of watching the Blu-Ray discs of the remastered Star Trek: The Original Series, a show that I also watched as a kid when it was originally aired. I went on to watch and enjoy all the other Star Trek series (even Voyager and Enterprise) plus the movies. Then I watched these discs. They looked and sounded incredibly good and I though the re-done special effects really added rather than took away (which they could easily have done). And yet... The writing, direction and the acting are so often just plain awful!

Sometimes, it's best to leave your childhood memories as memories and not try to relive them as an adult. Some things are WAY better as exagerated memories than as disappointing realities.
post #89 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryElbow View Post

The writing, direction and the acting are so often just plain awful!

Oh, come now... Shatner a bad actor?? I beg to differ. He's one of the greatest talent this generation has ever seen!
post #90 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Well, I'll diasagree...

Maybe it is a little less than 1.5X, but it is definately more than 1.1X.

EDIT: After some poking around, I found that the average size per episode of TOS, including the branching footage, subtitles, lossless audio track, and mono audio track is 8.75 GB per episode.

So if the Prisoner had all of that , you would have to compress more heavily to fit it on a BD25. But I'm not sure it will have the lossless audio (which would save about 1.5 GB there by itself). It also won't have branching material.

So even if TOS is only 10% branching and you remove lossless audio, it makes it 6.5 GB per episode. Close enough that I could easily see the Prisoner having 4 episodes with very high quality transfers on a BD25.

It isn't all doom and gloom.

[Agent86]Would you believe...1.3?[/Agent86]

We reach...you're no Herbert.

BCNU,
Doug
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