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Parasound Owners Thread - Page 51

post #1501 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Your assumption is correct. It did help a little but the hum is still quite prevalent..

My HT is in a dedicated detached garage and I have full control over what is and isn't plugged in. I do have a small fridge and Wine fridge hooked up on another circuit and when unplugged, it did nothing to alleviate the noise.

I am gonna have another separate, dedicated circuit using 10awg wire and a 20 amp breaker installed. Whoever built this room installed 14awg wire yet still installed 20 amp breakers. Everyone I have spoken with who is knowledgable on this subject says it's a real stretch having those 20 amp breakers on substandard wire.

I am assuming the garage is running off a sub-panel which is connected to your main breaker on your house. If so, ground loop can still exist as it could be coming through from anywhere on the connected main breaker anywhere in your house because they all share the same ground. All the ground wires are grouped together in the main panel box via a ground buss and that ground buss is supposed to be attached to a wire which connects to a ground bar buried deeply in the ground (IE, not connected to a water pipe or anything like that).

You might be able to isolate the ground in the garage by running your own ground bar to the garage; However, that may not be per code - you would need to check with an electrician and definitely have an electrician do the work for you if it was possible.

And yes, 14 gauge wire on a 20 amp breaker is a no-no. It should be 12 gauge. You should immediately replace the breaker with a 15 amp. Not sure about the 10 gauge wire - that would be really hard to work with in a residential configuration. 12 gauge is bad enough to work with in a single gang box. And you might require an even larger breaker than 20 amp to meet code for a 10 gauge wire.
post #1502 of 3357
Thanks Willy, very useful info.

However, one thing I'm at a loss to explain is why the A-31 runs dead quiet while the A-51 is "hummin" along. Both are plugged into the same outlet. Both are using the same interconnects that follow the same path from the C-2 controller to the amps.

I just don't get it unless the A-31 has some sort of improved, noise cancelling circuitry not present in the A-51. As I mentioned earlier, it seems odd that the amp with the ground lift switch is the one makin the noise.
post #1503 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Eliminate the ground wire and the hum goes away. Which is why some of the Halo models have a ground lift switch. Or use the adapters shown earlier.

I just tried the adapter with ground lift enabled and the issue remains. It should be noted that the hum only occurs with Ch1 and Ch2, but worse on Ch1.

Edit: This issue could not be recreated in a different house or at the local authorized repair shop. Likely caused by bad electrical wiring or no earth ground in the 1960's built house I live in.
Edited by gregcss - 4/4/13 at 11:17am
post #1504 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Your assumption is correct. It did help a little but the hum is still quite prevalent.

Do you have hum on all channels? See my post above.
post #1505 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Your assumption is correct. It did help a little but the hum is still quite prevalent..

My HT is in a dedicated detached garage and I have full control over what is and isn't plugged in. I do have a small fridge and Wine fridge hooked up on another circuit and when unplugged, it did nothing to alleviate the noise.

I am gonna have another separate, dedicated circuit using 10awg wire and a 20 amp breaker installed. Whoever built this room installed 14awg wire yet still installed 20 amp breakers. Everyone I have spoken with who is knowledgable on this subject says it's a real stretch having those 20 amp breakers on substandard wire.

Yeah, that is totally wrong. All the houses I've owned, built all used 12 ga/20 amp for all outlets. Only the ceiling light circuits used 14ga/15 amp. That is what I had in my 600^2 addition, which was mostly the LR/HT. Only the ceiling lights/fans were 15 amp. the single wall circuit in that room only had 5 outlets and 20 amp breaker. And two outlets were used for the A/V after I sold off that one sub that had caused the original ground loop. The fan for the free standing gas FP was the only other electric draw on that circuit.
post #1506 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Thanks Willy, very useful info.

However, one thing I'm at a loss to explain is why the A-31 runs dead quiet while the A-51 is "hummin" along. Both are plugged into the same outlet. Both are using the same interconnects that follow the same path from the C-2 controller to the amps.

I just don't get it unless the A-31 has some sort of improved, noise cancelling circuitry not present in the A-51. As I mentioned earlier, it seems odd that the amp with the ground lift switch is the one makin the noise.

There is obviously a somewhat different circuitry between those two amps, besides the GL switches.
Or maybe that is the only difference. I've never had an amp with a GL. Just this Casa that has no ground wires at all.
post #1507 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by gregcss View Post

Do you have hum on all channels? See my post above.
Equal hum in all channels although this morning it seems to be about half as loud as usual. The A-51 is being used for side and rear surround duties only.
post #1508 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Equal hum in all channels although this morning it seems to be about half as loud as usual. The A-51 is being used for side and rear surround duties only.

Just for curiosity, have you tried just using the A51 for all channels? The A31 temp disconnected.
post #1509 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Just for curiosity, have you tried just using the A51 for all channels? The A31 temp disconnected.
No, not yet. It's kind of a PITA to access the backside of my equipment rack.

Another test I plan that might even prove more revealing is to hook up one of the surround channels to the A-31 and see if that eliminates the noise in that channel.

Later today I plan to make access to my equipment rack as not only is this noise factor bugging me but the newly acquired A-51 is considerably bigger than the HCA1205 it replaced and I need to completely re-work my fan arrays to accomodate.
post #1510 of 3357
^^^^My thought process was that being nothing else worked that you have tried, my thoughts run to maybe, for some odd reason, the A51 wants all its channels used.

You might have to punt, an call Richard and ask what they think at the shop.
post #1511 of 3357
^^^^ Well I tried switching the left surround previously hooked to the A-51 with the F/L on the A-31. Interesting........ the left surround still exhibits a bit of hum, though not near as loud now coming from the A-31 and the L/F is also now exhibiting a bit of hum hooked to the A-51 as well. I'm headed to BB to try out some of their overpriced XLRs to see if it is indeed an issue with the single ended Blue Jeans' in my system. I'll report back later today.
post #1512 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

^^^^ Well I tried switching the left surround previously hooked to the A-51 with the F/L on the A-31. Interesting........ the left surround still exhibits a bit of hum, though not near as loud now coming from the A-31 and the L/F is also now exhibiting a bit of hum hooked to the A-51 as well. I'm headed to BB to try out some of their overpriced XLRs to see if it is indeed an issue with the single ended Blue Jeans' in my system. I'll report back later today.
Ah yes, the BB on Topsy Lane. It really irritated me when they only got one shipment of DVD-A/SACDs and each time I looked, the available selection was less than the time before. To bad you sent back the BJC XLRs too soon.
post #1513 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Ah yes, the BB on Topsy Lane. It really irritated me when they only got one shipment of DVD-A/SACDs and each time I looked, the available selection was less than the time before. To bad you sent back the BJC XLRs too soon.
Yeah, that place is a joke. 1st off, they don't even stock XLRs in their magnolia room because they don't stock any pre-pros that accomodate XLRs. The salesdude who was quite knowledgable and nice directed me to the other side of the store where they do have XLRs for DJ purposes. I figured since this is a test with the cables going back one way or the other, what do I have to lose. Funny thing is that these are Monster cables and they were only 24.95 for a pair of 6 footers. I'm sure that if they were in the Magonlia room, the same re-packaged cables probably would have cost well over a hundie.

Yeah, I might have been a bit hasty in returnin those Blue Jeans cables but such is life, eh. lol
post #1514 of 3357
Well, I switched out the RCAs and installed the BB Monster DJ XLRs and am happy to report that ;
THE NOISY HUM BE GONE!!! YAAAAAAY!
It's the first time since I put this mess together that I've been able to make that claim. I guess in my case the acquisition of the A-51 has given me two benefits. One of course is the improvement in sound but the other is having the ability to use XLRs in connecting the amp to the C-2 and thus eliminating ALL noise that was stubbornly present using RCAs. smile.gif
post #1515 of 3357
Glad you got that squared away.
post #1516 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Well, I switched out the RCAs and installed the BB Monster DJ XLRs and am happy to report that ;
THE NOISY HUM BE GONE!!! YAAAAAAY!
It's the first time since I put this mess together that I've been able to make that claim. I guess in my case the acquisition of the A-51 has given me two benefits. One of course is the improvement in sound but the other is having the ability to use XLRs in connecting the amp to the C-2 and thus eliminating ALL noise that was stubbornly present using RCAs. smile.gif

And yet your original thoughts on the BJC XLRs were not good. But glad you finally got it right.
post #1517 of 3357
I like the whole XLR 's only benefit if your using long run's etc etc..rolleyes.gif

Congrats! smile.gif
post #1518 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

And yet your original thoughts on the BJC XLRs were not good. But glad you finally got it right.
Yeah, for the fronts they just weren't quite as nice sounding as the RCAs. But I wasn't fighting a noise problem, just curious as to whether they offered up some sonic benefits which in my situation, they didn't. But for the surrounds which aren't quite as critical in achieving the purest of pure sound, they are perfect when taking the noise elimination factor into consideration.

Getting back to the Magnolia dude....... in my conversation with him he indicated that there's a good chance they are going to start bringing in some new, high end gear. He mentioned that he had heard that Marantz was on the short list to which I asked if that would include their flagship stuff like the 8801 AVR to which he answered yes. Now if they start carrying Parasound, I'm not sure if that would be good or bad. I just can't imagine Parasound gear in a high volume, box store.
post #1519 of 3357
i thought best buy pretty much shutting down and making a change to almost strictly cell phone plans
post #1520 of 3357
The Magnolia here in San Diego has McIntosh and B&W 800 series speakers. They carry Marantz, but the 8801 is order only. These things are all sold at MSRP too. They don't stock amps or pre-pros.
post #1521 of 3357
Has anyone here upgraded from a C1/C2 to either the Integra 80.3 or Marantz 8801? I have a C1 that has been collecting dust for years now (been using a Yamaha 663 for a processor feeding my Halo A51/A21 combo), and should probably go ahead and sell both to make room for something new.

I'm ready to upgrade, but not sure which of those two units plays better with the Halo amps. I'm open for suggestions too if there is something else in that general price range that works. I'm more 95 Movies and 5 music if that helps.

Thanks!
post #1522 of 3357
hi guys and gals,

so I finally did get back the non operating 2205A that was being repaired by Parasound. It arrived safe and sound and I got it hooked up. Turned out the 12 volt trigger cable was the opposite set up. The white jacket goes to the ground and the black jacket does into the 12 volt trigger slot. All is well, and boy, does it have a nice sound!

quick question on the cross over set up; don't know if anyone has had this dilemma. Currently, I use Pioneer SC-05 as processor and of course the parasound as an amp. I have a decent size front speakers, but I am crossing all 5 at 80hz. Does this mean for 2 channel playback, I am also crossing my fronts at 80hz?

My subwoofer came with instructions on hooking the sub up via 2 channel along with multichannel mode via line in connection. It said that hooking the sub up this way, will allow processor to handle bass management via multichannel, and relinquish control of low pass filter to the sub when running 2 channel mode. Bu,t it had stated in the instruction, that if your processor has one set of outputs (which SC-05 has 1 set for front right and left, for pre amp out), you need to obtain y adapter for hook up. I am guessing that it meant single male to 2 female RCA y adapter cable.

My question is; is this a common practice? any downside of using a Y adapter, that it would affect sound quality or "signal" drop? are there some of you out there that are actually doing this, and can offer some feedback? Thanks in advance, as I'd definitely like to have the crossover at a lower point in 2 channel playback.
post #1523 of 3357
^^^^ I think the store here in Carson City is kinda low on their list of priority locations. It just isn't a big enough market to warrant bringing the "good stuff" here though we do also draw from the Lake Tahoe region which is a pretty high end market, albeit small when compared to markets in large metropoleis like San Diego.
post #1524 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie b View Post

The Magnolia here in San Diego has McIntosh and B&W 800 series speakers. They carry Marantz, but the 8801 is order only. These things are all sold at MSRP too. They don't stock amps or pre-pros.

Making Magnolia something much less than a high end store.
In fact a few years back, in LA, a member of AVS made an arraignment with the manager of the BB/Mag. to allow him to bring in a pair of his speakers to do a direct comparison with any speaker in Magnolia room that the manager wanted to use for the side/side test. And if the guy thought that the speakers Magnolia had were better, the guy would buy them on the spot.

The speakers brought in were the JBL Performance Series PT800, a 3-way, all Ti speaker. Not one brand that manager threw into the mix came close to the PT800. One of the salesmen there made the comment that maybe they should start selling the Performance Series. But that was never going to happen do to the owner of Magnolia having a beef against Harman.

And I can say, having those same speakers, I never heard any brand in Magnolia, I ever thought were as good, much less better.
post #1525 of 3357
The Magnolias that carry the high end McIntoshs and B&W 800 series speakers are called Magnolia Design Centers. They also carry Sonus Faber, Arcam and Marantz Reference components. They are in a few select Best Buys throughout the country. In my area, we have 6 Mini-Magnolias (Pio Elite, B&W 600 series, Marantz AV stuff, etc) and two Design Centers with some true high end gear.

In this MP3/IPOD era and demise of the B&M store making it almost impossible to audition high end equipment, I welcome Best Buy/Magnolias experiment to make this level of equipment avaiable. I wish them well in their endeavor and encourage people to support them and just don't use them as an audition outlet. Sure they sell at MSRP - so does your local B&M HiFi shop. That doesn't mean they won't deal. Make them an offer and negotiate a price. They might say yes - many Mini-Mags do. Thats how I bought my Vienna Acoustics front three speakers after lengthy auditions. Also, they offer interest free financing if you use their Best Buy cards and play it smart with your payments. I have no aversion to using free money whether it be for a car or 2K plus audio purchases. So whats wrong with them carrying Parasound gear too? Is there some sort of stigma attached because I bought a Parasound amp from Magolia instead of having to outlay actual cash to a dealer or use my Amex card at Audio Advisor? I wonder if Sonus Faber or McIntosh is worried about this as long as they sell more units in the US market?

The way I see it, if they fail along with Best Buy, what will we really be left with as an outlet to audition gear? In my area, we once had 11 independently owned HiFi shops. We are now down to 3. Thats why I never bash Best Buy.
Edited by Paraneer - 2/18/13 at 9:14am
post #1526 of 3357
^^^^ Good points Paraneer. Do you think that maybe one of the reasons you went from elevn Hi-fi shops to three could have something to do with the two Magnolia Design centers in your locale? Kinda the same effect Walmart has on Mom & Pop grocery stores when they open a supercenter in the area.
post #1527 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

The Magnolias that carry the high end McIntoshs and B&W 800 series speakers are called Magnolia Design Centers. They also carry Sonus Faber, Arcam and Marantz Reference components. They are in a few select Best Buys throughout the country. In my area, we have 6 Mini-Magnolias (Pio Elite, B&W 600 series, Marantz AV stuff, etc) and two Design Centers with some true high end gear.

The way I see it, if they fail along with Best Buy, what will we really be left with as an outlet to audition gear? In my area, we once had 11 independently owned HiFi shops. We are now down to 3. Thats why I never bash Best Buy.

The Reno Mag corner had VA, but the Carson Valley store never did. And neither had power amps as best as I can recall.
With the exception of the large metro areas, like NY, LA, Chicago, Atlanta, most electronic/speaker buyers already do not have a local store to audition. Left to buy off the internet and evaluate what they bought at home.
Where I used to live in NW Nevada, after the housing industry's demise, I can count at least three A/V HT stores that closed up.
post #1528 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

^^^^ Good points Paraneer. Do you think that maybe one of the reasons you went from elevn Hi-fi shops to three could have something to do with the two Magnolia Design centers in your locale? Kinda the same effect Walmart has on Mom & Pop grocery stores when they open a supercenter in the area.


The Mag Design Centers opened about 6 months ago. The 8 HiFi shops that are nolonger here went out of business 6-10 years ago. No Walmart effect in HiFi - simply no interest in our hobby. And I wouldn't equate Best But as being the Walmart. Its more like Amazon is the Walmart driving Best Buy out of business!
post #1529 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

The Mag Design Centers opened about 6 months ago. The 8 HiFi shops that are nolonger here went out of business 6-10 years ago. No Walmart effect in HiFi - simply no interest in our hobby. And I wouldn't equate Best But as being the Walmart. Its more like Amazon is the Walmart driving Best Buy out of business!
Yeah, you're probably right about that. 99.9% of the populace that would even consider a home theater system are enthralled with the HTIB concept and don't have a clue as to what "true" high end gear has to offer. Some of my friends who have such systems will come over for a movie or concert blu and are totally blown away by my system until we start discussing the costs involved.

Also, then there's the age old battle of WAF which comes in the form of the Chief Financial Officer or the in house Interior Designer. eek.gif
Edited by Torqdog - 2/18/13 at 10:37am
post #1530 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody888 View Post

My question is; is this a common practice? any downside of using a Y adapter, that it would affect sound quality or "signal" drop? are there some of you out there that are actually doing this, and can offer some feedback? Thanks in advance, as I'd definitely like to have the crossover at a lower point in 2 channel playback.

Recommend you wire your subs from your sub pre-out for bass management simplicity. The y adpater would not affect the subs if splitting the sub pre-out into 2 or more subs.

I used one for years but I would suggest you buy a high quality adapter (not one of those cheap ones at Radio Shack or the like). Blue Jeans Cables sells one I think for about $8 plus postage but you probably can get a decent Monster adapter from Amazon for less. (I normally don't recommend Monster cables due to that horrid turbine connector which is way too tight but for a y adapter you should be OK).
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