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Parasound Owners Thread - Page 52

post #1531 of 3353
I have never heard of a best buy budging in price. They told me that with their stores, prices are what they are which is MSRP, unless there's a sale
post #1532 of 3353
Originally Posted by woody888

My question is; is this a common practice? any downside of using a Y adapter, that it would affect sound quality or "signal" drop? are there some of you out there that are actually doing this, and can offer some feedback? Thanks in advance, as I'd definitely like to have the crossover at a lower point in 2 channel playback.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

Recommend you wire your subs from your sub pre-out for bass management simplicity. The y adpater would not affect the subs if splitting the sub pre-out into 2 or more subs.

I used one for years but I would suggest you buy a high quality adapter (not one of those cheap ones at Radio Shack or the like). Blue Jeans Cables sells one I think for about $8 plus postage but you probably can get a decent Monster adapter from Amazon for less. (I normally don't recommend Monster cables due to that horrid turbine connector which is way too tight but for a y adapter you should be OK).
Another way of connecting multi subs is to daisy chain them, if the subs have both in/out coax connections.
What I use coax Ys for is to connect both the L & R coax inputs (and outputs, in the case of daisy chain) of my BASS amps so both halves of the amps are used.
post #1533 of 3353
4dhd, maybe you would know but i saw a class D amplifier with phono in. Would that defeat the purpose of using an analog source if the signal just gets converted to digital?
post #1534 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by bthrb4u View Post

4dhd, maybe you would know but i saw a class D amplifier with phono in. Would that defeat the purpose of using an analog source if the signal just gets converted to digital?

Its not something I would want. From my TT I want pure analog, which is why I have the P7.
The only time I have digital in my TT chain is if I convert it to MC, via L7, on the AVR.

Another question is how good is that phono pre-amp in the class D? Or does it even have one.
In any case I doubt its as good as the phono stage in the P7, and most certainly not as good as the JC3.
Six years ago I picked up a Denon stereo receiver, had to be about the worse Phono stage I've ever had.
If you are going to run a TT, that is the big question...how good is the phono stage pre?
Edited by 4DHD - 2/18/13 at 1:03pm
post #1535 of 3353
Thanks Willy and 4DHD for your reply. The problem is that I just have the one sub, and from what I read from the instructions, they indicate that I would just use Y adapter, one each for front left preout, and front right preout, at the processor/preamp jacks, and within each y adapter, one wire would run into line level in of the sub, and the other wire would run to the 2205A. and repeat that process on the other front channel preout on my receiver. So this would not affect sound quality right? Would it cause the crossover to overlap each other possibly? the manual said by doing this, it would defeat the processor crossover, and use the sub's. I just don't know how frequent it is that people do this, with a y adapter plugged into preout, one of each for the front channels.

I will look into blue jeans adapter. Thanks Willy.
post #1536 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody888 View Post

Thanks Willy and 4DHD for your reply. The problem is that I just have the one sub, and from what I read from the instructions, they indicate that I would just use Y adapter, one each for front left preout, and front right preout, at the processor/preamp jacks, and within each y adapter, one wire would run into line level in of the sub, and the other wire would run to the 2205A. and repeat that process on the other front channel preout on my receiver. So this would not affect sound quality right? Would it cause the crossover to overlap each other possibly? the manual said by doing this, it would defeat the processor crossover, and use the sub's. I just don't know how frequent it is that people do this, with a y adapter plugged into preout, one of each for the front channels.

I will look into blue jeans adapter. Thanks Willy.

I don't quite see what you are saying here.
But if you have two sub outs on the AVR...L/R, then you connect both to a coax Y, then the tail of the Y to the coax cable. Then you do the same at the other end of the cable, using a Y to connect to the L/R inputs on the sub. This config uses both sides of the sub's amp.

The sub out does not connect to the 2205A.
post #1537 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by bthrb4u View Post

I have never heard of a best buy budging in price. They told me that with their stores, prices are what they are which is MSRP, unless there's a sale

You have to ask if your serious about buying that day. Money talks. Have the salesman ask the store manager. I do it all the time and am usually successful. If not, the worst they can do is say no. If they do refuse and you really want the product, then try another store. I understand Mini-Magnolias are now matching Amazon prices. Some on AVS have commented on this. Many years ago, I once asked a salesman to price match my Pioneer Plasma TV with Costco. He went from $4500 to $3200 and I said sold! Its now in my living room. Always negotiate open box items for another 10% off too from their stated price. You would be amazed how many times they say yes - but you better be prepared to buy it when they do.

Seriously, I have never paid full price at Best Buy or Magnolia for anything I have ever bought from them except small stuff like Blu-rays, CDs and Printer Ink.
post #1538 of 3353
it's an integrated so yes it has a pre-amp stage. Tube pre-amp actually i believe. Yeah, i figured most people use tt for the analog sound and then converting it to digital seems a little bass akwards.
JK anyways. Figured i'd ask to see if my assumption was right.
post #1539 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody888 View Post

quick question on the cross over set up; don't know if anyone has had this dilemma. Currently, I use Pioneer SC-05 as processor and of course the parasound as an amp. I have a decent size front speakers, but I am crossing all 5 at 80hz. Does this mean for 2 channel playback, I am also crossing my fronts at 80hz?

My subwoofer came with instructions on hooking the sub up via 2 channel along with multichannel mode via line in connection. It said that hooking the sub up this way, will allow processor to handle bass management via multichannel, and relinquish control of low pass filter to the sub when running 2 channel mode. Bu,t it had stated in the instruction, that if your processor has one set of outputs (which SC-05 has 1 set for front right and left, for pre amp out), you need to obtain y adapter for hook up. I am guessing that it meant single male to 2 female RCA y adapter cable.

My question is; is this a common practice? any downside of using a Y adapter, that it would affect sound quality or "signal" drop? are there some of you out there that are actually doing this, and can offer some feedback? Thanks in advance, as I'd definitely like to have the crossover at a lower point in 2 channel playback.
My question is why would you not want to crossover for stereo? Does your sub high pass the front left/right? My experience, and I believe it's consistent with standard practice, is that to achieve the best integration of sub and speakers, its best to high pass your mains, just like your other speakers. Running your mains full range with your sub may not work as well as you think. Also, even if your mains are decent size towers, they are likely to perform better if they are high passed. 80 Hz is as good a high pass frequency as any and I assume that's consistent with what your processor does. Nevertheless, experimentation is the order of the day and if you're curious, I see nothing wrong with splitting your pre-outs. Just be sure you don't have two low-pass filters in the signal path.
post #1540 of 3353
Personally, when i am find a good low pass filter, i put on a movie with a deep male dialect and start the cross over high and then work my way down till i can hear the deep bassy notes in the voice through the fronts. After that i want everything going to the sub. And by a deep male voice, i mean Optimus Prime on Transformers Dark of the Moon lol
post #1541 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by davee70 View Post

My question is why would you not want to crossover for stereo? Does your sub high pass the front left/right? My experience, and I believe it's consistent with standard practice, is that to achieve the best integration of sub and speakers, its best to high pass your mains, just like your other speakers. Running your mains full range with your sub may not work as well as you think. Also, even if your mains are decent size towers, they are likely to perform better if they are high passed. 80 Hz is as good a high pass frequency as any and I assume that's consistent with what your processor does. Nevertheless, experimentation is the order of the day and if you're curious, I see nothing wrong with splitting your pre-outs. Just be sure you don't have two low-pass filters in the signal path.

Thanks for everybody's reply. It's not that I do not want any cross over for my 2 channel listening. It's just that I wanted a lower crossover point when I am doing 2 channel listening. In the sub manual, it said that it is best for 2 channel listening, to set the crossover at 70% of your mains' lowest frequency response. So for home theater viewing, it is set 80 hz all across, but for 2 channel listening, I would not mind to set the crossover at a lower point, vs 80hz, and that is what I am trying to achieve, and the manual said, in order to achieve this, I would utilize a Y adapter, if my processor only have 1 set of preout per channel, which is the case for the pioneer SC receiver.
post #1542 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I don't quite see what you are saying here.
But if you have two sub outs on the AVR...L/R, then you connect both to a coax Y, then the tail of the Y to the coax cable. Then you do the same at the other end of the cable, using a Y to connect to the L/R inputs on the sub. This config uses both sides of the sub's amp.

The sub out does not connect to the 2205A.

my processor/receiver only has 1 sub out, and the subout is connected from processor to the sub.
post #1543 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I don't quite see what you are saying here.
But if you have two sub outs on the AVR...L/R, then you connect both to a coax Y, then the tail of the Y to the coax cable. Then you do the same at the other end of the cable, using a Y to connect to the L/R inputs on the sub. This config uses both sides of the sub's amp.

The sub out does not connect to the 2205A.
That makes no sense to me or maybe I just don't follow you. If the sub has L and R line level inputs, use them directly, no Y required. The sub will combine them. It is generally not a good idea to combine outputs from a component because it lowers the effective impedance of the upstream component by half. Good impedance matching of upstream and downstream components is important for best performance and the upstream component needs to operate at it's design impedance. However, if it works for you, then you are the final judge. I just don't see the need for it.
post #1544 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by davee70 View Post

That makes no sense to me or maybe I just don't follow you. If the sub has L and R line level inputs, use them directly, no Y required. The sub will combine them. It is generally not a good idea to combine outputs from a component because it lowers the effective impedance of the upstream component by half. Good impedance matching of upstream and downstream components is important for best performance and the upstream component needs to operate at it's design impedance. However, if it works for you, then you are the final judge. I just don't see the need for it.

Bass is always mono...rarely are there any recordings with stereo bass, I've not found any. So combining the two makes no difference. Plus it saves running two coax cables to one sub. And then connecting to both inputs on the sub powers both halves of the plate amp.
post #1545 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody888 View Post

Thanks for everybody's reply. It's not that I do not want any cross over for my 2 channel listening. It's just that I wanted a lower crossover point when I am doing 2 channel listening. In the sub manual, it said that it is best for 2 channel listening, to set the crossover at 70% of your mains' lowest frequency response. So for home theater viewing, it is set 80 hz all across, but for 2 channel listening, I would not mind to set the crossover at a lower point, vs 80hz, and that is what I am trying to achieve, and the manual said, in order to achieve this, I would utilize a Y adapter, if my processor only have 1 set of preout per channel, which is the case for the pioneer SC receiver.
Can't you just go into your AVR's menu and change the x-over frequency there when you go back and forth? Also, if I am understanding you correctly and what you are trying to accomplish, your sub should have a switch that either has the subwoofer's x-over engaged or the other(LFE) setting allows the AVR to handle the x-over frequency. The latter is usually prefered because it more accurately ties in the speakers you have set to "small" with the x-over frequency of the sub. It also makes it easier to change the x-over frequency on the fly by way of your AVR's remote.

What davee 70 said is true. Running your mains at full range and then also have your sub running is not neccessarily gonna give you the best sound. I personally have my mains set to "large" which means they are running at full range. I also have the ability with my C-2 to add what's called "e-bass" which in essence turns on the sub with the mains still running at full range. On most recordings it makes the bass seem much less articulate and bloated. However, on recordings that are weak in the lower frequencies, it does help out a bit. YMMV
Edited by Torqdog - 2/18/13 at 3:06pm
post #1546 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Bass is always mono...rarely are there any recordings with stereo bass, I've not found any. So combining the two makes no difference. Plus it saves running two coax cables to one sub. And then connecting to both inputs on the sub powers both halves of the plate amp.

So you're saying your mono sub has a stereo amp in it?

Never heard of that before.
post #1547 of 3353
Have heard that utilizing a y connector from a single sub output on processor to both the left and right inputs on the sub will apply a gain. Not sure, it's 3 to 5 db.

Cheers
post #1548 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk 
So you're saying your mono sub has a stereo amp in it?

Never heard of that before
.
Not stereo, dual windings on the motor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioguy1 View Post

Have heard that utilizing a y connector from a single sub output on processor to both the left and right inputs on the sub will apply a gain. Not sure, it's 3 to 5 db.

That is right. Here is a statement from the JBL L8400P manual:

“Plug both male ends of the Y-connector into the L8400P’s line-level IN jacks. Then plug in a single separate RCA type interconnect cable (not supplied) into the Y cable. Finally, plug the other end of the single cable into your receiver’s subwoofer jack.”.

That statement was an addendum to the original manual, is also implying an AVR with only one output, which was the norm in '06.
I get the same gain on my BASS plate amps by using both L/R inputs.
post #1549 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

.
Not stereo, dual windings on the motor
That is right. Here is a statement from the JBL L8400P manual:

Wow--that's interesting. Thanks smile.gif

“Plug both male ends of the Y-connector into the L8400P’s line-level IN jacks. Then plug in a single separate RCA type interconnect cable (not supplied) into the Y cable. Finally, plug the other end of the single cable into your receiver’s subwoofer jack.”.

That statement was an addendum to the original manual, is also implying an AVR with only one output, which was the norm in '06.
I get the same gain on my BASS plate amps by using both L/R inputs.

I guess I'll run an experiment on my subs. cool.gif
post #1550 of 3353
Anybody on the fence about getting an A52 they have them on sale at Audio Advisor for a great price. After calling them they said the A52 was closing out which I had not heard before this....anyone know the scoop?
post #1551 of 3353
I was told the same thing a month ago and offered similar pricing by my local dealer....
Edited by mookie b - 2/28/13 at 7:29am
post #1552 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post

Anybody on the fence about getting an A52 they have them on sale at Audio Advisor for a great price. After calling them they said the A52 was closing out which I had not heard before this....anyone know the scoop?

Well, being closed out, I'll assume that means a new model about to come out.
But $800 off the full price for the A52 seems quite good.
Of coarse, that would mean a huge markup on the full price.
post #1553 of 3353
Well, everybody has a big mark up, that's the retail market, but I've never spent full retail on any electronics, you just have to be patient.
post #1554 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

Well, everybody has a big mark up, that's the retail market, but I've never spent full retail on any electronics, you just have to be patient.

want a big markup....try Nike shoes, $2 to make and $120 to buy.

I did buy a P7 for $500 off 3 years ago.
post #1555 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Misencik View Post

Anybody on the fence about getting an A52 they have them on sale at Audio Advisor for a great price. After calling them they said the A52 was closing out which I had not heard before this....anyone know the scoop?

Yeah, I want an A52 but in black. Thats why I have New Classic stuff. So, even though a great price, the current AA sale does me no good.

I sure hope the A52 is not going to be dropped. It's still listed on Parasounds website as a current HALO model. I've been waiting for Parasound to come out with this model but in a black finish. Frankly the A51 & A31 are just too big for my room and needs. Hope Parasound retains a more moderately powered line of multi-channel amps in the 125 wpc range like the A52.
post #1556 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

Yeah, I want an A52 but in black. Thats why I have New Classic stuff. So, even though a great price, the current AA sale does me no good.

I sure hope the A52 is not going to be dropped. It's still listed on Parasounds website as a current HALO model. I've been waiting for Parasound to come out with this model but in a black finish. Frankly the A51 & A31 are just too big for my room and needs. Hope Parasound retains a more moderately powered line of multi-channel amps in the 125 wpc range like the A52.

I doubt they will drop it. My guess is a new model, with slightly improved specs for a (much?) higher price!
post #1557 of 3353
Typically how much discount would one expect to get for the A51 from an authorized dealer? Been dreaming about getting a A51 for my Klipsch RF-7 II 5.1 and Denon 3312 setup but can't pull the trigger knowing that Emotiva and Outlaw amps with similar outputs cost significantly less. Could the sound improvement with the A51 justify paying twice as much (or more)?
post #1558 of 3353
If I were dreaming about an A51, I would keep a close eye on Audio Advisor and grab a factory refreshed unit when they become available. AA usually knocks 25% off list when selling the refreshed units. I bought two from AA at this discount and seriously could not tell the difference between refreshed and new,. Plus you get a full warranty as AA is an authorized Parasound dealer.

Just a suggestion...I know the A51 is expensive but if this is what you are dreaming about, you should do anything you can to make it happen. Buyers remorse is real and everytime you listen to the Emotivas or Outlaws, you may be asking yourself "what if". Sometimes it not a matter of whether it sounds any better or not. Its also a matter of much higher quality, better warranty and resale value. Not knocking these other brands, but they are value priced amps vs. Parasound HALO's that are premium amps. And since this is a hobby, sometimes its simply a matter of what we really want.
post #1559 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by exm View Post

I doubt they will drop it. My guess is a new model, with slightly improved specs for a (much?) higher price!

Thanks and hope your right Exm. It would seem strange that Parasound would have only one power output to choose from in their multi-channel line - 250 wpc. And not have something more moderate. But they did drop the 5125 from the New Classic line, (125 wpc) and this is why I am concerned about the A52. We'll see.
post #1560 of 3353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paraneer View Post

If I were dreaming about an A51, I would keep a close eye on Audio Advisor and grab a factory refreshed unit when they become available. AA usually knocks 25% off list when selling the refreshed units. I bought two from AA at this discount and seriously could not tell the difference between refreshed and new,. Plus you get a full warranty as AA is an authorized Parasound dealer.

Just a suggestion...I know the A51 is expensive but if this is what you are dreaming about, you should do anything you can to make it happen. Buyers remorse is real and everytime you listen to the Emotivas or Outlaws, you may be asking yourself "what if". Sometimes it not a matter of whether it sounds any better or not. Its also a matter of much higher quality, better warranty and resale value. Not knocking these other brands, but they are value priced amps vs. Parasound HALO's that are premium amps. And since this is a hobby, sometimes its simply a matter of what we really want.

Sage advice.
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