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Parasound Owners Thread - Page 66

post #1951 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

There is a bit more than just better separation of dual JC1s over the A21...400w > 8Ω compared to 250w > 8Ω.
One can bridge the A21 for 750w > 8Ω, but can not use bridge mode for 4Ω load.
But with either, they are fine amps.

Indeed wink.gif
post #1952 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

You're right...It's been a while since I had the P7 so my memory is a little hazy. Thanks for the correction. smile.gif

I had a second AVR with digital inputs so I could hook up my Dish Network DVR. I ran that through the P7 and used the volume on the first one, with the P7 set to bypass.

I sold the P7 because I wanted to have just one pre-pro in the system.

Point I was trying to make is stratoholic should use the Oppo directly to the P7 and not use bypass, and see how that sounds compared to his Anthem.

Point taken and thanks to everyone for all of input. My Oppo is now going analog 7.1 direct to the P7 and I'm able to control the volume with the P7. Can't say that there's much of a difference but it's nice to have one less component in the rack. Anyone interested in an Anthem AVR 20? smile.gif I guess that I'm not clear on why the need for a HT bypass on the P7 and how it would be used but I'm happy with the results in my system. Parasound rocks! I just played The Milk Carton Kids CD and the voices and guitars sound very real....outstanding.
post #1953 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoholic View Post

Point taken and thanks to everyone for all of input. My Oppo is now going analog 7.1 direct to the P7 and I'm able to control the volume with the P7. Can't say that there's much of a difference but it's nice to have one less component in the rack. Anyone interested in an Anthem AVR 20? smile.gif I guess that I'm not clear on why the need for a HT bypass on the P7 and how it would be used but I'm happy with the results in my system. Parasound rocks! I just played The Milk Carton Kids CD and the voices and guitars sound very real....outstanding.

Why not have the by-pass? The P7 analogue out is only good for disc playback. For the likes of HBO, Showtime and all the rest of cable, sat channels you need the DD decorder to process the audio.
post #1954 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Why not have the by-pass? The P7 analogue out is only good for disc playback. For the likes of HBO, Showtime and all the rest of cable, sat channels you need the DD decorder to process the audio.

I understand. In my case I have my Oppo bdp-105 going into the P7 via analog 7.1. Because I use my Oppo for all playback, stereo and muti-channel (I have my Tivo Premier going into my Oppo that does the processing), it's the only connection to the P7 that I have right now. When I play a 2 channel recording or file, the Oppo plays it in 2 channel. When I watch a movie or Tivo, the Oppo does the necessary multi-channel processing. I'm not using the HT bypass on the P7.
post #1955 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoholic View Post

I understand. In my case I have my Oppo bdp-105 going into the P7 via analog 7.1. Because I use my Oppo for all playback, stereo and muti-channel (I have my Tivo Premier going into my Oppo that does the processing), it's the only connection to the P7 that I have right now. When I play a 2 channel recording or file, the Oppo plays it in 2 channel. When I watch a movie or Tivo, the Oppo does the necessary multi-channel processing. I'm not using the HT bypass on the P7.

As for BD, I'm behind the times. Still using my Denon DVD-A/SACD player. Which I use as a cd player as well.
But for online video, I need to decode stereo sound into 5.1. thus the HK AVR with L7.
The only times I use my HK AVR is to watch movies/tv shows online, or if I want to listen to the dts tracks on DVD-A discs. We do have cable and Sat. down here, but I have not bothered to subscribe.
Edited by 4DHD - 6/4/13 at 3:21pm
post #1956 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

The A21 like the JC1 are the direct offspring of John Curl and the spec's should give you a clue as to will happen when its applied to sound wink.gif does it sound better ? depends on your listening habits ! I listen to a lot of 2/ch and if not going JC1's for that last bit of separation its the reason the A21 exist in the lineup and is more of a purist amp with all the guts and design geared for such, including running higher is class A !
Just curious.........aren't the A-21, A-31 and A-51 almost if not totally identical, sonically speaking?
post #1957 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Mark View Post

I have the A51 and bundled 3 A23's with it for an 11.1 setup. The A23's are keeping up with the big brother. So far totally happy, I was worried about them not having enough power.... they do. biggrin.gif

I've found that to be the same for me and my A23 for my rear speakers.
post #1958 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

[/B]

I certainly understood that point you were making.

Although, I don't quite understand about the two AVR situation. Or the need to sell off the P7.
I see you used digital connections from the Dish Net DVR to one AVR. But then you had the P7 connected to that AVR or the other one?




Sorry for the confusion. Too many generic pronouns... smile.gif

The dish DVR was connected to a NuForce AVP17 by its optical output. (The only one available for muti-channel audio.) That signal was then routed to the P7 through one of its HT bypass inputs. It worked fine until the NuForce crapped out. All the volume and setup for TV viewing was done through the NuForce. Worked, but unnecessarily complex.


When the NuForce died, I decided to just go with a high enf prepro that did analog and digital, thus my decision to sell the P7. In an analog only setup or dedicated movie theater, it would be fine, but for my multi purpose setup, I liked the idea of one pre-pro vs two.
post #1959 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

There is a bit more than just better separation of dual JC1s over the A21...400w > 8Ω compared to 250w > 8Ω.
One can bridge the A21 for 750w > 8Ω, but can not use bridge mode for 4Ω load.
But with either, they are fine amps.

Not to mention the separation of your wallet and an extra six thousand dollars. eek.gif
post #1960 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratoholic View Post

I understand. In my case I have my Oppo bdp-105 going into the P7 via analog 7.1. Because I use my Oppo for all playback, stereo and muti-channel (I have my Tivo Premier going into my Oppo that does the processing), it's the only connection to the P7 that I have right now. When I play a 2 channel recording or file, the Oppo plays it in 2 channel. When I watch a movie or Tivo, the Oppo does the necessary multi-channel processing. I'm not using the HT bypass on the P7.

That's pretty cool, if I understood you correctly.. So, your Tivo feeds the Oppo, which feeds the P7?

So, my question is, what source feeds the Tivo, and does it get you original multi-channel audio? i.e. not up sampled?

What kind of connection?
post #1961 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Not to mention the separation of your wallet and an extra six thousand dollars. eek.gif
But if a person had a pair of Revel Salon2, that extra $6k would have been well spent. The Salons are power hungry.
So it comes down to, if you need it you buy it.
post #1962 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

But if a person had a pair of Revel Salon2, that extra $6k would have been well spent. The Salons are power hungry.
So it comes down to, if you need it you buy it.

Amen to that, Brother!
post #1963 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

But if a person had a pair of Revel Salon2, that extra $6k would have been well spent. The Salons are power hungry.
So it comes down to, if you need it you buy it.

Power aside you may just want them because they just happen to sound good eek.gif
post #1964 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Power aside you may just want them because they just happen to sound good eek.gif
The sound quality of the JC1 was already a given. But $9k for a pair of mono blocks is really steep, especially if ones speakers don't require 400w to make them sound good. So then the A21 steps in.
But if running speakers only rated @ 86.4db, like the Salon2, they just need more power than most.
post #1965 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Sorry for the confusion. Too many generic pronouns... smile.gif

The dish DVR was connected to a NuForce AVP17 by its optical output. (The only one available for muti-channel audio.) That signal was then routed to the P7 through one of its HT bypass inputs. It worked fine until the NuForce crapped out. All the volume and setup for TV viewing was done through the NuForce. Worked, but unnecessarily complex.


When the NuForce died, I decided to just go with a high enf prepro that did analog and digital, thus my decision to sell the P7. In an analog only setup or dedicated movie theater, it would be fine, but for my multi purpose setup, I liked the idea of one pre-pro vs two.

I've got 3 HK units, one being a power amp. And the AVR and stereo receiver sound damn good. And if the sound quality of those units is equal to the P7, I would still rather run the P7 for its simplicity of use. Especially compared to the AVR.
Some recordings are just off a bit. Maybe in the balance or bass. With the P7 its just 2 or 3 clicks to get it right. With the AVR 3600 I have to go deep into a menu just to change the balance.
Although one advantage of the HK AVR, if I want to listen to stereo source in MC, the L7 music is great, or dts neo-6.

But in regard to either using a player or an AVR to decode a soundtrack, there is some debate as to which would do a better job.
From what I've read over the years, the Oppo players have a great analogue output for stereo sources. But is its Dolby or DTS output as good as that of an AVR?
That would be my question as to running soundtracks through a P7 instead of an AVR or pre/pro.
post #1966 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

But if a person had a pair of Revel Salon2, that extra $6k would have been well spent. The Salons are power hungry.
So it comes down to, if you need it you buy it.

As the owner of the lowly Salons, they are not as power hungry as reported.
Every once and a while, a correction is need when they embark on a quest for world dominance. tongue.gif

I am driving them quite well with the A51.
I have also had an Outlaw 7500 and ATI 3005. The A51 falls right in the middle of these two amps.
All of them can shake the walls of my 4500 cu foot room. We are talking about a less than 2 DB difference between these 200 to 300WPC amps.

Since all these amps produce lots of current into 4 ohm loads, they do a great job driving the bass.
My Outlaw is out for repair but when it returns my friend and I intend to do a bit of compression testings.

My completely un-scientific, subjective view is that the bass production is similar but the upper end is sweeter in the A51.
I am really happy with this amp.

From a heat and space point of view, I think the JC-1's are over kill.
If there were a more affordable Parasound 2 channel powerhouse 350/500 watt range amp, I would take a hard look.

- Rich
post #1967 of 3344
There was a guy in NoCal who had bought a pair of Salon2. And after setting them up, he was not happy at all with their sound.
I don't know what amp he had, but he then called his dealer about the problem. The dealer responded by bringing out a pair of JC1s and the guy was in complete bliss with the Salon2/JC1 combo. As to if he would have been as happy with the A21, A31, A51, no way of knowing.
post #1968 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

I've got 3 HK units, one being a power amp. And the AVR and stereo receiver sound damn good. And if the sound quality of those units is equal to the P7, I would still rather run the P7 for its simplicity of use. Especially compared to the AVR.
Some recordings are just off a bit. Maybe in the balance or bass. With the P7 its just 2 or 3 clicks to get it right. With the AVR 3600 I have to go deep into a menu just to change the balance.
Although one advantage of the HK AVR, if I want to listen to stereo source in MC, the L7 music is great, or dts neo-6.

But in regard to either using a player or an AVR to decode a soundtrack, there is some debate as to which would do a better job.
From what I've read over the years, the Oppo players have a great analogue output for stereo sources. But is its Dolby or DTS output as good as that of an AVR?
That would be my question as to running soundtracks through a P7 instead of an AVR or pre/pro.


Agreed on the simplicity--and the sweet sound-- of the P7. Except there was no way to play a surround sound TV show through it without the second pre-pro, which sort of blew the whole simplicity thing.

I ended up with a Bryston SP3 which does analog and digital, and with which I am quite satisfied.

It sounds great through my A51. biggrin.gif
post #1969 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

The sound quality of the JC1 was already a given. But $9k for a pair of mono blocks is really steep, especially if ones speakers don't require 400w to make them sound good. So then the A21 steps in.
But if running speakers only rated @ 86.4db, like the Salon2, they just need more power than most.

They are steep indeed , my big Bostons are 8 ohm @ 89db with a recommended 15-400 watts and respond to good or bad changes and allow me to hear differences in components ( the better the gear the better the end result) and yes the A21 can make them sing and the only way to better that in my upgrade path is the JC1's and in all honesty it's for the higher class A output rating and the next up level of refinement from the Halo lineup the extra power is a plus as well. I do a lot of late night low level listening and can tell when that transition from class A to class A/B happens wink.gif These are just beautiful sounding amps and all things being equal in the market the JC1's are a screaming deal!
post #1970 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Agreed on the simplicity--and the sweet sound-- of the P7. Except there was no way to play a surround sound TV show through it without the second pre-pro, which sort of blew the whole simplicity thing.

I ended up with a Bryston SP3 which does analog and digital, and with which I am quite satisfied.

It sounds great through my A51. biggrin.gif

Having the HK AVR connected to the P7, as all other gear is, certainly is not a complicated thing.
Its only a matter of turning on the AVR and clicking the P7 theater by-pass input to output digital surround sound.
And the SP3, like the HK 3600, does not have a phono stage input....something I need for my Marantz TT, that the P7 has. And a very good one at that.
But it comes down to whatever works for any given need, and quality desired.
post #1971 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

That's pretty cool, if I understood you correctly.. So, your Tivo feeds the Oppo, which feeds the P7?

So, my question is, what source feeds the Tivo, and does it get you original multi-channel audio? i.e. not up sampled?

What kind of connection?

Tivo is a DVR for my cable TV, movies, and is connected to the Oppo via HDMI. Everything feeds into the Oppo, not just the Tivo. For multi-channel music the Oppo plays all sorts of discs, DVD-A, SACD, etc. I have a Western Digital HD going into the USB port on the Oppo and have all of my music files at my disposal through the Oppo. I can also connect my computer into the Oppo for both audio and video. The Oppo is the real workhorse of my system and the audio side of it is really outstanding IMO.
post #1972 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

Having the HK AVR connected to the P7, as all other gear is, certainly is not a complicated thing.
Its only a matter of turning on the AVR and clicking the P7 theater by-pass input to output digital surround sound.
And the SP3, like the HK 3600, does not have a phono stage input....something I need for my Marantz TT, that the P7 has. And a very good one at that.
But it comes down to whatever works for any given need, and quality desired.


Well, I would never presume to suggest that my way is any better than anyone else's. smile.gif

Part of what I mean by "simplicity" is also "rack space." Also I don't do vinyl, just not interested. In fact, the only round things I play are Blurays, I listen to two channel music through a digital player, from USB sticks or solid state hard drive.

Sounds like we both have what we want pretty well figured out.

For now..... biggrin.gif
post #1973 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

There was a guy in NoCal who had bought a pair of Salon2. And after setting them up, he was not happy at all with their sound.
I don't know what amp he had, but he then called his dealer about the problem. The dealer responded by bringing out a pair of JC1s and the guy was in complete bliss with the Salon2/JC1 combo. As to if he would have been as happy with the A21, A31, A51, no way of knowing.

I wouldn't turn down a pair of black JC 1's but something in between would be nice wink.gif
I don't doubt they were well received smile.gif

- Rich
post #1974 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

They are steep indeed , my big Bostons are 8 ohm @ 89db with a recommended 15-400 watts and respond to good or bad changes and allow me to hear differences in components ( the better the gear the better the end result) and yes the A21 can make them sing and the only way to better that in my upgrade path is the JC1's and in all honesty it's for the higher class A output rating and the next up level of refinement from the Halo lineup the extra power is a plus as well. I do a lot of late night low level listening and can tell when that transition from class A to class A/B happens wink.gif These are just beautiful sounding amps and all things being equal in the market the JC1's are a screaming deal!
Are you sure about that? Reason I ask is that the A-21' A-class goes all the way up to 7 amps IIRC. That's allot of power for "low level listening".
post #1975 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Are you sure about that? Reason I ask is that the A-21' A-class goes all the way up to 7 amps IIRC. That's allot of power for "low level listening".

Hello Torqdog-That's 7 watts, classA, not 7 amps.
post #1976 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Well, I would never presume to suggest that my way is any better than anyone else's. smile.gif

Part of what I mean by "simplicity" is also "rack space." Also I don't do vinyl, just not interested. In fact, the only round things I play are Blurays, I listen to two channel music through a digital player, from USB sticks or solid state hard drive.

Sounds like we both have what we want pretty well figured out.

For now..... biggrin.gif

I'm running everything from LP ~ 96/24, with the exception of BD.
My Macbook is doing the iTunes and 96/24 downloads.
With the Denon 1930 doing MCM and CDs.
Although I need to pick up either a Dragon Fly or HRT usb DAC. Maybe both.
post #1977 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordf250 View Post

Hello Torqdog-That's 7 watts, classA, not 7 amps.
Oops, you're right. I realized that shortly after I hit the submit button. That's still allot of power for a speaker rated at 89db
post #1978 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Oops, you're right. I realized that shortly after I hit the submit button. That's still allot of power for a speaker rated at 89db
But the JC1s go up to 25w Class A, set to high bias.
post #1979 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

But the JC1s go up to 25w Class A, set to high bias.

Yep! and that's why I want them biggrin.gif
post #1980 of 3344
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Oops, you're right. I realized that shortly after I hit the submit button. That's still allot of power for a speaker rated at 89db

Nothing wrong with that is it? I listen to a lot of classical that have very powerful transients and the dynamics during crescendos when the orchestra hits full tilt can get very complex whilst trying to maintain good separation of instruments and good hall decay wink.gif sure that's where the switch to class A/B pays off but the longer I can put that switch off the better! and as for the reproduction of class A/B on these Halo's , they shine and sound great while doing it!
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