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Parasound Owners Thread - Page 67

post #1981 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Nothing wrong with that is it? I listen to a lot of classical that have very powerful transients and the dynamics during crescendos when the orchestra hits full tilt can get very complex whilst trying to maintain good separation of instruments and good hall decay wink.gif sure that's where the switch to class A/B pays off but the longer I can put that switch off the better! and as for the reproduction of class A/B on these Halo's , they shine and sound great while doing it!
No, absolutely not.
I don't listen to allot of classical........prog rock is more my favored genre but is not the only genre I play. It too has extreme amounts of crescendo and I sometimes on rare occasions might crank it to 90 to 95db at my listening position which is 11 feet from the FL/FR. So I'm not sure how much power my halos are pushing into my 89db sensitive speakers........do you think it might exceed the 7 watt threshold? Just curious, how do you tell when it switches from class A to A/B as you eluded to in your previous post?
post #1982 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

So I'm not sure how much power my halos are pushing into my 89db sensitive speakers........do you think it might exceed the 7 watt threshold? Just curious, how do you tell when it switches from class A to A/B as you eluded to in your previous post?

Spidey sense tongue.gif


- Rich
post #1983 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

No, absolutely not.
I don't listen to allot of classical........prog rock is more my favored genre but is not the only genre I play. It too has extreme amounts of crescendo and I sometimes on rare occasions might crank it to 90 to 95db at my listening position which is 11 feet from the FL/FR. So I'm not sure how much power my halos are pushing into my 89db sensitive speakers........do you think it might exceed the 7 watt threshold? Just curious, how do you tell when it switches from class A to A/B as you eluded to in your previous post?

If I had to put it in words to describe it ! the sound is very linear more whole for a given range of volume and as the demand for more current is needed (and this my subjective opinion) its harder to find that right volume for the music being played! its just right on the A21 for the larger majority of my listening habits! but of course the pursuit of a higher fidelity beckons me to strive for that next degree! wink.gif
post #1984 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Spidey sense tongue.gif


- Rich

You do the math, backwards. If you are using a 250w amp (at full power) its just a matter of cutting that wattage in 1/2 for each -3db.
So @ -15db = 7.8125w; -18db = 3.9w
post #1985 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post

You do the math, backwards. If you are using a 250w amp (at full power) its just a matter of cutting that wattage in 1/2 for each -3db.
So @ -15db = 7.8125w; -18db = 3.9w

Using this Power Amplifier Calculator for my Revel Salons at 3 meters), to achieve 80 DB requires 5 watts.

So if you are listening to highly dynamic movies then you are going to going in and out of Class-A mode quite often.
I think it just as important is the how this amp is designed input stages, etc, which I believe attributes to its sweet sound.
Since power goes up quickly with minor volume changes, you will run out of Class-A quickly even at 25 watts.
I don't really want an amp that idles at 450 watts for a signle channel.

- Rich
post #1986 of 3357
Does anyone know the Class A specs for the older HCA 2205?
post #1987 of 3357
^^
I believe it is 25 watts but you would probably need to email Parasound for confirmation.
post #1988 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

Does anyone know the Class A specs for the older HCA 2205?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillyJ View Post

^^
I believe it is 25 watts but you would probably need to email Parasound for confirmation.

I have a 2205A myself, and it does not show it in the manual...but I seem to remember seeing it listed as 18w, somewhere.
post #1989 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Using this Power Amplifier Calculator for my Revel Salons at 3 meters), to achieve 80 DB requires 5 watts.

So if you are listening to highly dynamic movies then you are going to going in and out of Class-A mode quite often.
I think it just as important is the how this amp is designed input stages, etc, which I believe attributes to its sweet sound.
Since power goes up quickly with minor volume changes, you will run out of Class-A quickly even at 25 watts.
I don't really want an amp that idles at 450 watts for a signle channel.

- Rich

Its not as bad as tubes eek.gif and if I ever do go that route keeping them cool and on 24/6 ( a day of rest wink.gif) will just be a part of the price to play. And as Bone's would probably say " dammit Jim I'm an Audiophile , not an casual listener" tongue.gif
post #1990 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Using this Power Amplifier Calculator for my Revel Salons at 3 meters), to achieve 80 DB requires 5 watts.

So if you are listening to highly dynamic movies then you are going to going in and out of Class-A mode quite often.
I think it just as important is the how this amp is designed input stages, etc, which I believe attributes to its sweet sound.
Since power goes up quickly with minor volume changes, you will run out of Class-A quickly even at 25 watts.
I don't really want an amp that idles at 450 watts for a signle channel.

- Rich
Cool calculator Rich. One question though...........on the calculator just what is meant by amplifier headroom? I know that if you are using xx watts amount of power and your amp is rated at xxx watts power, headroom would be the difference between the two.........right?
post #1991 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Its not as bad as tubes eek.gif and if I ever do go that route keeping them cool and on 24/6 ( a day of rest wink.gif) will just be a part of the price to play. And as Bone's would probably say " dammit Jim I'm an Audiophile , not an casual listener" tongue.gif
Now THAT is funny! biggrin.gif
post #1992 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torqdog View Post

Cool calculator Rich. One question though...........on the calculator just what is meant by amplifier headroom? I know that if you are using xx watts amount of power and your amp is rated at xxx watts power, headroom would be the difference between the two.........right?

Just playing with it, I think that it basically computtes the power required for your desired listening level + headroom.
I get the same answer for 80DB + 3DB headroom as 83DB + 0DB of headroom.

So if you are listening the some dynamic source, I usually use 10DB.
Some classical can be higher.

For the purpose of this discussion I think you can go with a lower number like 3DB.
Using a Radio Skack meter which is pretty slow, I am well under 80 DB most of the time.

- Rich
post #1993 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post


I have a 2205A myself, and it does not show it in the manual...but I seem to remember seeing it listed as 18w, somewhere.
Thanks that seems to be enough for my Klipsch epic CF3 rated @100db wink.gif
post #1994 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4DHD View Post


I have a 2205A myself, and it does not show it in the manual...but I seem to remember seeing it listed as 18w, somewhere.
Really? It seems strange that the 2205 would be rated at 18 watts when the Halo A-51 is rated at 7.
post #1995 of 3357
The chief tech at Parasound said that the 2205 will put out about 2 Watts of Class A before switching over to AB operation. The A51 is virtually identical also putting out about 2 Watts Class A before switching over to AB.


chris
post #1996 of 3357
Thanks for clarifying!

n.
post #1997 of 3357
So the A21 does 7 watts in class A and the A51 does 2 watts. A possible reason to have the A21 running the left and right fronts and the A51 running the rest in a 7 channel system.
post #1998 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

The chief tech at Parasound said that the 2205 will put out about 2 Watts of Class A before switching over to AB operation. The A51 is virtually identical also putting out about 2 Watts Class A before switching over to AB.

chris

I think he needs to check with his boss tongue.gif

When I asked Richard Schram he said the A51 is 8 W/CH Class-A.
I have also read this in reviews.

- Rich
post #1999 of 3357
Ill ask them both on Monday when they get in.

smile.gif
post #2000 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

I think he needs to check with his boss tongue.gif

When I asked Richard Schram he said the A51 is 8 W/CH Class-A.
I have also read this in reviews.

- Rich
+1
I was given the same basic info from the man in charge.
post #2001 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

Ill ask them both on Monday when they get in.

smile.gif
Contact Parasound via e-mail and you'll probably have an answer before the end of the day.
post #2002 of 3357
Richard is not in his office I just looked.... biggrin.gif Like I said. Ill ask both of them when they get in on Monday.
post #2003 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

Richard is not in his office I just looked.... biggrin.gif Like I said. Ill ask both of them when they get in on Monday.

Are you a Parasound'er ?

- Rich
post #2004 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

Richard is not in his office I just looked.... biggrin.gif Like I said. Ill ask both of them when they get in on Monday.

I have an A52 so ask about that one, too, please.
post #2005 of 3357
Proudly, yes I am a Parasound'er. I however am not as knowledgeable as many of you on AVS and always learn something while reading through this and many other threads.
post #2006 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

Proudly, yes I am a Parasound'er. I however am not as knowledgeable as many of you on AVS and always learn something while reading through this and many other threads.

Welcome. you are officially an insider.
You may want to consider adding something to your signature or profile.

- Rich
post #2007 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

So the A21 does 7 watts in class A and the A51 does 2 watts. A possible reason to have the A21 running the left and right fronts and the A51 running the rest in a 7 channel system.

Now you've got it wink.gif
post #2008 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by WAFWarrior View Post

The chief tech at Parasound said that the 2205 will put out about 2 Watts of Class A before switching over to AB operation. The A51 is virtually identical also putting out about 2 Watts Class A before switching over to AB.


chris

Richard told me the A51, first 8 watts is Class A
The A 51 is biased to operate in Class-A mode for the first 8 watts, before transitioning to Class A/B as more output is required

http://www.hometheater.com/content/parasound-halo-p-7-multichannel-preamplifier-51-multichannel-amplifier-amp-jc-1-single-chann
Edited by Dr_Mark - 6/7/13 at 3:56pm
post #2009 of 3357
Quote:
Originally Posted by runnin' View Post

So the A21 does 7 watts in class A and the A51 does 2 watts. A possible reason to have the A21 running the left and right fronts and the A51 running the rest in a 7 channel system.
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

Now you've got it wink.gif


Not so fast fellas. From Home Theater's review;
Quote:
The JC 1 is the polar opposite and has real estate to spare. Each monoblock features both single-ended RCA and balanced XLR inputs. Parasound has also included dual-speaker binding posts to make biwiring easier for the user. All of the Halo amps have trigger inputs and can be turned on via a 12-volt trigger signal or, if you prefer, from automatically sensing an audio signal. Both amps are class A/AB designs, but they are said to feature higher biasing toward Class A than other amps at this price point. The A 51 is biased to operate in Class-A mode for the first 8 watts, before transitioning to Class A/B as more output is required. The JC 1 has a selectable bias switch that can run in Class-A mode at up to 10 watts in low bias or up to 25 watts in the high-bias setting. Pure Class-A amps run extremely hot, and even limiting Class-A operation to the first 25 watts, the JC 1 gets hot to the touch.

http://www.hometheater.com/content/parasound-halo-p-7-multichannel-preamplifier-51-multichannel-amplifier-amp-jc-1-single-chann

These figures for both the A-51 and JC-1 amplifiers match what I've read elsewhere and what Richard himself has said. AFAIK, all three of the larger Halo amps have in essence the same audio circuit topology with minor tweaks here and there.

ETA; ah shucks...... looks like Dr Mark beat me to it. rolleyes.gifsmile.gif
post #2010 of 3357
I'm pretty confident that it's the first 8 watts that are Class-A per a conversation I had with Richard a few months ago.
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