Planar 8150 follow up impressions - Page 3

Brian Carskadon
Director of Product Development
Home Theater Business
Planar and Runco wrote in answer to my question:

''We have made several, and they have been implemented since last year in both models. The latest was a SW update that some people have found to improve the 'below black' level, while others have not seen any difference, so this is a personal preference.''

Forum like this can be very usefull but also very deceptive.
It is easy to mock brainless chickens but you can be poked by those whose brains are working....
Only a kind suggestion: if you see them,please,apologise.

Right on the spot! My unit is defective.

I received a replacement from Planar today, and it does not show any of the annoying problems I had with DynamicBlack on my unit.

I talked to Brian @ Planar, and he told me that the most notable improvement they have made to the projectors is tying down cables and connectors better so that they don't come loose in shipping. (He believes this is what's wrong with my early production unit too).
Kris observation about better image might be related to improved factory calibration procedures, according to Brian. He said the optics and electronics is he same and has not undegone any changes.

So , when you have DynamicBlack active you don't see any off the flickering at all anymore?
Do you notice the DI at all , eg brightness changing?

I also have one of the earlier PD8150's and i can can sometimes see flickering even in static scenes when i have DynamicBlack activated.
I have also chosen to deactivate DynamicBlack because of this.

My dealer has told me that this is considered normal and is to be expected from a fast DI. Should i accept that answer?

Out of curiosity, does the short throw lens have any negative effect on the brightness and/or on/off CR?

Does anyone have the numbers on the short throw lens??? I have only seen 1.3:1 which I believe was the standard lens.

The optional short-throw lens is 1.56 - 1.86:1. There is no difference in brightness or contrast with this lens over the standard lens (1.85 - 2.40:1).

Thank you Brian for that information...... with the short throw lens I can actually make this projector work.

Is the short-throw lens a "normally" shipped unit or is there an upcharge for the short-throw lens?

It is sold as an extra item that you can install, like the ceiling mount.

bummer....

Check with your dealer. I heard some dealers are taking care of the lens change for you. There's also an installation manual on the Planar website for this.

Thanks to Brian for answering my brightness/cr related question.

Brian so your short throw lens is a lens converter like a barstow lens

i was interested in the Planar until I saw it had Cedia 2008 and for some reason I was not impressed with the image and looking at it gave me a headache

Theoretically the dynamic iris should increase the contrast ratio and the variable intensity lamp (I do not know if you used a Vidi system or an osram system) should help with the red part of the spectrum and decrease the dither artifacts and should produce a wonderful projector

have you made any significant changes since Cedia 2008?

I had many different pjs here in my dedicated cinema room with a big screen (4.2m wide). I prefer the Planar in terms of pure pq over JVC, Sony, Optoma. It is a very serious machine. And Brian does a super-job in supporting customers, talked with him now two times and just a great guy to deal with.

CHANGING the lens isn't the "bummer", it's the extra cost!! That is the reason I didn't get this projector, the extra ~$1500 for the short throw lens. They were talkng about creating a separate package with the short throw lens with the projector, but that obviously never happened.

Is the short-throw "option" some type of an "add-on" lens or does it replace the existing lens?

If it is simply a replacement that is substituted for the standard lens then selling it only as an optional item rather than a different squ# would be "regrettable."

I can see that an individuals needs might change over time which having a change option if your theater requirements changed would be very helpful, but to force a customer to buy a long-throw lens when they only need the short-throw is rather tacky.

Isn't the short-throw lens $799?

The list price for the short throw lens (1.56 - 1.86:1) is $799 (USD). I would still like a seperate SKU that includes the short throw lens, but for now, I only can offer it as a seperate sale.

Brian, is the lens an "add-on" style lens or a replacement?

The screen was way too big for the room at Cedia. It was a 120" wide woven SR with .95 gain. The front row was ~8' from the screen. It was not optimal and I appologize for this.

We use a UniShape lamp waveform implementation which improves color and bit depth.
Variable Plateau: The lamp brightness is changed for each segment of the color wheel. Using this method, we can achieve an almost perfect D65 color wheel using a mercury lamp without compromising the color saturation, something which was not possible before.
Low Pulse: The lamp brightness is dropped to 50% twice during each color wheel revolution. During this time the DMD is processing only that part of the image which is below 50% brightness. The DMD is gained up 200% to take advantage of the full brightness range and processes the image at its full bit depth capabilities. Using this process, 1 additional bit is added to the image, reducing dithering in dark areas by 50%.

Here are some other factoids regarding this platform:

Each projector is individually calibrated on the production line using a six axis color correction for white point and proper color gamut. Manual controls for RGB gains, offsets, and color temperature are also available.

DynamicBlack provides higher contrast and bit depth, improving total image quality.
This control's default setting is on.
When turned on, full field contrast levels are boosted approximately 3x. To do this, 3 steps occur for every frame of content:
1. The image is analyzed for brightness content
2. If the image does not use the full range of brightness, the range will be expanded to fit the range of the DMD. This is similar to an auto leveling function of photo editors like Photoshop.
3. An aperture is closed to one of more than 200 possible positions so that the peak brightness matches the original (pre-expanded) image. This means that even though light is being blocked by the aperture, the apparent brightness of the image does not appear to change.
Because the entire brightness range of the DMD is used during dark scenes, DynamicBlack can add up to 1.6 additional bits to the image. This reduces dithering artifacts substantially.
It is important to note that not all implementations of DynamicBlack (or so-called dynamic apertures) operate the same. Unlike others, the DynamicBlack subsystem in the PD8150 and PD8130 uses a very low mass actuator and operates at the incoming frame rate of the signal. It is driven by a process similar to that used for a hard drive head to make sure that the actuator position, speed, and reliability are optimal. Planar has conducted extensive design studies and validation tests to ensure that image artifacts are as few as possible.
Note that due to the dynamic nature of the optical aperture, some standard test methods for determining projector performance will not work properly. Please turn DynamicBlack off if you want to calibrate the contrast control or measure the projector gamma using individual gray level test images.

High speed color wheel reduces artifacts for some people.
The color wheel runs at a 6x multiple of the frame rate. This means for 60Hz sources that the actual projector frame rate is 360Hz and for 50Hz sources it is 300Hz. For people who are sensitive to flicker or color sequential breakup (the so-called rainbow artifact), these are greatly reduced at this frame rate. Unishape also helps reduce this effect.

High in-field contrast optical engine makes images more life-like.
The optical engine produces a typical ANSI checkerboard contrast of over 500:1. This signifies low crosstalk and stray light. A high ANSI contrast is the most important industry-recognized measure for the 3-dimensionality of an image.

Projection Lens filter thread allows for brightness optimization in small rooms.
The projection lens is equipped with threads for a 72mm standard SLR type filter. We recommend using an ND2 filter here for situations where the on-screen brightness exceeds 40 foot-lamberts at full white. Most content is not designed to be viewed at such high brightness levels, and artifacts in the source such as macroblocking can be easily seen when the image is above this brightness.
Horizontal and Vertical lens shift allow for distortion free image movement.
The projection lens can be moved vertically and horizontally (the PD8130 has vertical shift only). The range is +120% to -50% vertically, and +/-15% horizontally. This is implemented instead of the more traditional electronic keystone correction since it is purely optical and does not create the scaling artifacts that electronic correction does.

Here is a general list of features for these projectors
Stunning piano-black ID with metal-flake and multiple layers of clear coat
Oversized optics for superior image uniformity and clarity
Super low noise and light pollution cabinet design - limits stray light output to less than 50% of the brightness of projected black - Built-in sound dampeners - Shock mounted components - Angled side vent louvers to direct ventilation away from customers - Oversized fans for lowest noise level possible - Sleeve bearing color wheel for long life and silent operation and zero pure tones
Sixteen HD video timings; eight for1080p including 1080p 24Hz
Six position full HD PIP & PBP
Automatic ceiling mode detection
NegitivePulse (UniShape) lamp technology for increased color bit depth
Resize modes for 2.35:1 anamorphic lens use
Two selectable IR codes built-in, plus ability to disable IR
I/O panel illumination LED activated via remote
ISF day and night calibration memory settings
Ten individual sharpness controls
NightVision red backlighting on remote control
Lens shift controls under top mounted trap door
Threaded focus ring for adding Neutral Density filter
12v trigger(s) that can be assigned to six separate functions - lamp on/off, 4 resize modes and RS-232
Four individual noise reduction controls
Calibrated to D65 standards out-of-the-box
Selectable DLP frame rate control - Auto, 48Hz, 50Hz, 60Hz
DynamicBlack for superior frame-by-frame black level adjustment
Adaptive contrast using electronic contrast enhancement
BrilliantColor for increased color brightness
Two lamp wattage choices - 4000 hour life and 2000 hour life
Auto-power on mode when AC is detected - Wall switch compatible
Five programmable source selection keys
Three programmable image memory selection keys
Eleven Built-in test patterns
Blue-only mode for calibration
Four level translucent menu
Lamp can be replace while projector is ceiling mounted
Field upgradeable software
Intelligent service menu for advanced troubleshooting
Serial number visible while ceiling mounted and via OSD
Sealed optical system and no filters necessary
Included polishing cloth
No routine maintenance is required
Beveled cable cover for easy table-top demonstrations and a super-clean installation
Centered lens for uniform look and easier installations
Five position OSD, with 12 supported languages



Hope this helps.

Complete lens replacement. Can be done in less than 10 minutes.

Brian,
How big is the difference between 8130 and 8150? How would you describe their comparative performance?

The 8150 has V & H lens shift and two sets of component inputs (one RCA and one 75 ohm BNC) and is rated at 15:000:1 CR and the 8130 has just V lens shift, one set of component inputs (RCA) and is rated at 10,000:1 CR. Everything else is identical.

Yeah I know that much, but I was curious how much real world percieved difference does the CR rating difference translate into.

Depends on who you ask. There are people on this forum that will say that it makes a big difference. Asking me is sort of not fair....

After seeing your description of the 8150 I wish had demoed it more thoroughly instead of continued to wrangle with Sim2 your competitor over their 380 to deliver a projector which even remotely meets specification. After one year and a half 40 emails and going through 3 projectors I now have a projector that puts out 245 lumens. It has been a real horror story

Its sound like you have done every thing right to optimize the image although I would have loved to see a manual adjustable Iris

Is their a dealer in Colorado?

We have several. Give our local sales guy, Doug, a call at 970-377-2593.

Thanks,

I can only second that: I ordered the Sim2 Lumis, it got measured and failed the specs signifacmtly with the T1 lens a loss of Ansi-CR down to 450 (34000 Euro machine). Than considered the HT3000e because of its Unishade-Lamp technolgy speced at 1200 lumens, measured in reality at 770 Lumen and 2700 CR, no Dynamic Iris (16000 Euro-Machine).

Now I learned from Brian that they use the same Osram-Technolgy (Uni-Shape) as Sim2 did and when you read the cine4home-review, the specs are better than Sim2 and that at a price point of 6500 Euro.

YOu can imagine how much I would love to see a 3chip 1008p Projector from Planar at 13000 Euro. That would be a killer-product and would be a break-through as we had a break-though years ago with the ruby.

indeed. With todays economy the timing may make this impractical but it would make for a welcomed product.









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Sorry that our marketing information did not make this clear. We worked very hard on this platform to get the features such as DynamicBlack and UniShape working correctly. The lower cost 3-chip 1080p is waiting for TI to get the 0.65 DMD's working for 3-chip.

Why wouldn't you use the 3 Chip DMDs 0,95” 1080p DC4 like the Lumis ? I can see you guys are capable to produce products which are at least en par with the Sim2 stuff at a much more reasonable price, so why don't you build a "Lumis-Killer" ? Obvioulsy time to market is important in the PJ-Game...

If you wan't to go with 1-chip DLP and are sensitive to CSP , this is the one. I can only see rainbows if I provoke it.