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Planar 8150 follow up impressions - Page 23

post #661 of 773
A Planar pj was finally delivered to my office today. I happened to be outside when the UPS truck pulled up and cheerfully greeted the driver. I watched with anticipation as he unloaded a large box with the Planar name emblazoned on it's sides. I happily signed for it and thanked the driver who proceeded to quickly drive away.

As I reached down to pick up the box, my eyes landed on some small numbers....8130. What was this? An 8130? That can't be right, I thought to myself as I quickly looked over the box for the numbers 8150 but they were nowhere to be found. I had just signed for a pj I didn't order.

After a couple of calls to AVS and speaking with Jason, everything seems to have been straightened out. Apparently, Planar had mistakenly sent an 8130 in their last shipment of 8150's to AVS and it was in turn, shipped out to me.
Jason said a call tag will be issued from Planar for the 8130 and since it was a mistake made by Planar and there are no more 8150's to be had, I will be receiving a Runco LS-5 instead. A shipment from Runco is expected by AVS next week and if all goes well, I should receive one of those the following week.
post #662 of 773
Quote:


A Planar pj was finally delivered to my office today. I happened to be outside when the UPS truck pulled up and cheerfully greeted the driver. I watched with anticipation as he unloaded a large box with the Planar name emblazoned on it's sides. I happily signed for it and thanked the driver who proceeded to quickly drive away.

As I reached down to pick up the box, my eyes landed on some small numbers....8130. What was this? An 8130? That can't be right, I thought to myself as I quickly looked over the box for the numbers 8150 but they were nowhere to be found. I had just signed for a pj I didn't order.

After a couple of calls to AVS and speaking with Jason, everything seems to have been straightened out. Apparently, Planar had mistakenly sent an 8130 in their last shipment of 8150's to AVS and it was in turn, shipped out to me.
Jason said a call tag will be issued from Planar for the 8130 and since it was a mistake made by Planar and there are no more 8150's to be had, I will be receiving a Runco LS-5 instead. A shipment from Runco is expected by AVS next week and if all goes well, I should receive one of those the following week.

I am anxious to hear how you like your Runco LS-5. I ordered a Planar 8150 also but my dealer got the order in too late so I am also set to receive an LS-5 and have the rest of my theater done by the end of the month. The projector is the same as the Planar but I think you and I will be the first to receive one.
post #663 of 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

It's just an allen/hex "key" with the ball type end on it. Instead of the standard strait end.

Really... It's supposed to be the semi-exotic ball-end?

Jason lost my key, and Planar never got back to my request for the key (they seemed very confused by the whole notion of me not getting the key in the first place), so I've been using a regular, non-ball end allen metric key since day one... (Fortunately I have a full set of metric tools since I lived in Europe).
post #664 of 773
I just read Kris Deering's post on the sharpness of the RS-35 compared to the Planar, Sony and Samsung. When Greg Rogers reviewed the Planar he mentioned that it was very difficult for him to get the sharpness dialed in across the whole screen. Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect. Just wondering as I am going to be getting my Runco LS-5 soon and want to know if there are any secrets about getting the focus right.

Thanks
post #665 of 773
I own the 8150. Sharp like hell.
post #666 of 773
multiblitz, are you using sharp control in simple or advance mode?

Federico
post #667 of 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post

I just read Kris Deering's post on the sharpness of the RS-35 compared to the Planar, Sony and Samsung. When Greg Rogers reviewed the Planar he mentioned that it was very difficult for him to get the sharpness dialed in across the whole screen. Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect. Just wondering as I am going to be getting my Runco LS-5 soon and want to know if there are any secrets about getting the focus right.

Thanks

yes this was my experience with both 8150 units I had.
post #668 of 773
Quote:
Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect.

For me it was a piece of cake. I am meticulous in making sure that the projector lens is properly centered and exactly perpendicular to the screen so that geometry is perfect and focus is as consistent as possible everywhere on the screen. Since the focus is manual, you have much greater control (in my opinion) than you do with motorized focus, but the problem is that you need to be up close to the screen to focus properly, while you have to move the focus ring at the projector. The solution is simple...just use a pair of binoculars. As far as the physical action of the focus ring, I find it to be very smooth and easy to control, making proper focus a breeze.

Other than employing a solid, well thought out installation, there are really no other "tricks" that I know of to properly focus ANY projector. I believe in getting the most optical sharpness possible, and I don't use the "sharpness" control at all as I feel that electronically enhancing the sharpness produces artifacts of its own.
post #669 of 773
Yeah, can't say I've noticed any focus uniformity problems, at least none that can be attributed to the Planar as opposed to my screen (which I need to re-tighten). The one thing I can think of that might make it "tricky" is the lens shift, that would add a couple more variables to the alignment equation, but nothing you can't overcome.
post #670 of 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay5298 View Post

When Greg Rogers reviewed the Planar he mentioned that it was very difficult for him to get the sharpness dialed in across the whole screen. Do other owners of the Planar find the sharpness or focus hard to get perfect. Just wondering as I am going to be getting my Runco LS-5 soon and want to know if there are any secrets about getting the focus right.

FWIW, here's the full text of what I said about focussing the 8150:

"There was very little chromatic aberration (color fringing), but there was significant focus non-uniformity in the upper half of the screen (table mounted projector) with maximum vertical lens shift. With the lens positioned at the edge of the screen I still had to adjust the focus very carefully to optimize sharpness over the entire screen area. If I were permanently mounting the projector I would have tried to locate the lens a little closer to the vertical center of the screen. Single-pixel black and white lines in a 1080p burst were fully resolved, but lines and edges were not as sharp as those displayed by the best lenses of more expensive projectors."
post #671 of 773
Yeah, my 8150 is mounted pretty much "dead nuts center" (that's technical jargon... ) both vertically and horizontally to the screen, so focus variation due to lens shift is not an issue.
post #672 of 773
I thought I read a post from the Planar rep that the neutral position(before any shift is used) of the lens was placing the pj so that the center of the lens was even with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or the bottom of the screen if placed on a table top. Is this not the case?


Edit - From page 32 of the owners manual:

Quote:


Ideally, the projector should be positioned perpendicular to the screen and in such a way that the lens center is aligned with either the top or bottom edge of the screen area, and centered horizontally. See Figure 3-3.
post #673 of 773
Quote:


I thought I read a post from the Planar rep that the neutral position(before any shift is used) of the lens was placing the pj so that the center of the lens was even with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or the bottom of the screen if placed on a table top. Is this not the case?

Yes, you are correct, but when I designed my room, the shelf for the projector was built "dead nuts center" to the screen, as I had to make a decision where to build the shelf, and my thoughts were that most any projector with lens shift should look pretty good at that position, regardless of what projector I installed. It is a compromise decision, like many other decisions regarding HT design, but it seems to be a pretty good all around choice. It may not be the perfect choice for the 8150, but I have not run into any focus issues with that particular choice.
post #674 of 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithfarmer View Post

I thought I read a post from the Planar rep that the neutral position(before any shift is used) of the lens was placing the pj so that the center of the lens was even with the top of the screen when ceiling mounted or the bottom of the screen if placed on a table top.

He/Planar might have said that, but I don't see how asymmetric projection can rightfully be called neutral in an optical sense; that would be everything centered.
post #675 of 773
The phrase "neutral position" may have never been posted. It was my simple recollection of the gist of what I had read and why I edited my post to reflect what the owners manual actually states:


Quote:
Ideally, the projector should be positioned perpendicular to the screen and in such a way that the lens center is aligned with either the top or bottom edge of the screen area, and centered horizontally. See Figure 3-3.
post #676 of 773
Sorry Gregr, it was a while ago when I read the review. I guess I need to make sure and get the projector as center to the top of the screen as possible.
post #677 of 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by multiblitz View Post

I own the 8150. Sharp like hell.

Multiblitz, is your projector really that bad, or do you mean sharp as hell.
post #678 of 773
I've had my Runco LS-5 for a few months now and have been meaning to post my thoughts on it. Due to a change in jobs and lifes other commitments, I haven't really had a lot of spare time on my hands.

I have the pj ceiling mounted and centered precisely with the screen. The projector is level, vertically and horizontally. Distance from the lens to a 120" diagonal screen is 18' 3" (2.1 throw ratio). The top of the screen is 14.25" from the ceiling, as is the center of the LS-5 lens.

My room is 23'L x 15'W x 9'H and has off white ceilings and carpeting but very dark burgandy walls and black velvet curtains. Lighting is provided by 4 can lights (60W each), 2 in the middle and 2 in the back of the room. Even turned all the way up, it's still pretty dark up behind the pj so I was slightly disappointed to find that the led on the back of the pj that is supposed to provide some extra light didn't work. The LS-5 differs in looks from the 8150. The glossy black case has been changed to one with a matte black finish.

When I first fired up the pj, I was shocked to hear that it was as loud as my old Infocus 7210 that I run in economy mode. After using some vertical lens shift to lower the image quite a bit, a quick look at the menus and I saw that the LS-5 was in standard lamp mode. I quickly switched to economy mode and after a brief moment, the fan dropped to a much lower speed and I was thankfull for the practically silent purr that ensued. The sound eminating from the pj was barely audible now and that made me quite happy indeed.

It was time to align the image with my screen and I have to say again that I was disappointed. I've read that the mechanism used for shifting the lens was nice and tight and I found it to be just the opposite. I found quite a bit of slop in the gearing. Go in one direction too far up or down and you have to turn the allen wrench almost 3/4's of a turn in the other direction before the image starts to shift.

When using the horizontal shift I found that the lens would also move up and down as I applied or released any torque on the allen wrench. Needless to say but it took me a good hour of going back and forth before I was completely satisfied. My 7210 which has no lens shift (I use a Premeire Mount that provides easy yaw, pitch and roll adjustments) took maybe 30 minutes to get it right.

The pj's menu structure remains essentially the same but the names for Brilliant Color and Dynamic Black have been changed to SatCo and ConstantContrast. I leave BrilliantColor and Adaptive Contrast off and Dynamic Black on.

My screen is a SilverStar, around 3 gain depending on reviews. With my 7210 I used a Hoya HMC ND2 filter to get better black levels but it was optional and I could easily have gone without it. With the LS-5 it's mandatory. The image is so bright that it's fatiguing to watch otherwise. Using the LS-5 with an ND2 filter is a different story though and makes for quite an enjoyable image to my eyes. The image is bright but not overly so and even though the pj easily fails the hand puppet test in my setup, black looks black enough during actual film content. The added benefit to using the filter is when I hit around 1000 hours, I can remove it and it'll be like putting in a new bulb.

I have about 70 hours on the projector and have only noticed the iris working a few times on rolling credits at the end of a movie. I've looked for it in quite a few places that people have mentioned trips up other pj's dynamic irises and since I've yet to see it working during actual film content on the LS-5, I've basically stopped looking for it.

The image seems a good bit sharper than my 7210 but I'm sure the higher resolution has a little something to do with this perception of additional clarity. The 7210 was noted for good colors and skin tones and I find the LS-5 to be just as good. The LS-5 may be technically more accurate in this regard but I can't really see it and I'm totally fine with that. I was more than satisfied with the 7210 for color accuracy and as long as the LS-5 was at least as good as it was, I knew I'd be happy and I am.

I really like the LS-5 and find it a worthy upgrade to my 7210 but I do have some issues with this particular pj and think I have a faulty unit. I have some shading errors and think it may be due to a bad processor of some kind. The left side of the image is darker than the right. When changing resolutions, the menus or internal test patterns the leftt side of the image goes gray/green for a few seconds and lags behind the left side and remains slightly darker.

Also, I have a few diagonal streaks radiating from the upper right hand side of the image towards the center of the screen. At first I thought it was my screen but it's not. The streaks move with the image if I tilt the pj up or down or side to side.

I bought the pj from AVS and they stand behind what they sell so I know I won't have a problem and this will be made right. Before I give Jason a call, I was just curious if anyone else has ever seen this?
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post #679 of 773
A few more shots:
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post #680 of 773
I have a Runco LS-5 also and am very happy with it. No problems with my unit. here are a couple of reviews for anyone who cares.http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/proje...r.html?start=2.http://www.hometheatermag.com/frontp...or/index1.html
post #681 of 773
smithfarmer,

I just got an LS-5 and do not see any shading or lines on my unit as yours shows. From your photos I'd agree that there is definitely a problem. Did you notice the issues from the beginning or did they develop over time?

Hard to tell from the photos if the light/dark is split precisely down the middle -- if so you might check that you don't have the PIP Split Screen mode active. I understand that this applies User Memory 2 settings (those related to the image processor) to the left half of the image. While this could cause light/dark sides, I don't see how it'd be the source of the radial lines that you are seeing.

When installing, I did have the same experience as you regarding the lens shift -- horizontal and vertical are not completely independent. Good thing is that the lens seems to remain stable once set.

I've only put on a few hours, but I'm extremely pleased with what I see thus far. Big improvement over my Samsung H710 in terms of sharpness, contrast, and black level. The only downside I see so far is a slight light leakage that appears on very dark scenes (mainly dark test patterns) where there is a dim ring of light that shows outside the projection area. It's not noticeable in most normal content, but it does stand out occasionally with dark images after the eye adjusts. I have a white wall behind my screen, so the light is more noticeable than it otherwise would be, although I never noticed anything similar with the Samsung.
post #682 of 773
Quote:


The LS-5 differs in looks from the 8150. The glossy black case has been changed to one with a matte black finish.

Cool! The less reflective surfaces anywhere in the room, the better, even though it never mattered in my particular installation.
Quote:


I've read that the mechanism used for shifting the lens was nice and tight and I found it to be just the opposite. I found quite a bit of slop in the gearing. Go in one direction too far up or down and you have to turn the allen wrench almost 3/4's of a turn in the other direction before the image starts to shift.

Yup, I agree, the mechanism is sloppy, but even with the slop I got everything lined up perfectly in less than a half hour. It's no big deal anyway, as once it is done it stays lined up until you move the PJ.
Quote:


I leave BrilliantColor and Adaptive Contrast off and Dynamic Black on.

That's the way I ran mine also, though admittedly I would turn on BC and/or AC just for variety and to attempt to compensate for less than pristine transfers.
Quote:


The image is bright but not overly so and even though the pj easily fails the hand puppet test in my setup, black looks black enough during actual film content.

Don't fret...even my RS-35 fails the hand puppet test miserably, just a shade less miserably than the LS-5...
Quote:


I have about 70 hours on the projector and have only noticed the iris working a few times on rolling credits at the end of a movie. I've looked for it in quite a few places that people have mentioned trips up other pj's dynamic irises and since I've yet to see it working during actual film content on the LS-5, I've basically stopped looking for it.

Though I don't watch credits, my experience was the same. The only time I saw the iris in action out of 388 hours of viewing was during a switch from a 100% white field to a 0% black field test pattern (and similar other patterns). The DI was never an issue in any way during normal viewing.
Quote:


The image seems a good bit sharper than my 7210 but I'm sure the higher resolution has a little something to do with this perception of additional clarity. The 7210 was noted for good colors and skin tones and I find the LS-5 to be just as good. The LS-5 may be technically more accurate in this regard but I can't really see it and I'm totally fine with that. I was more than satisfied with the 7210 for color accuracy and as long as the LS-5 was at least as good as it was, I knew I'd be happy and I am.

As expected. Bob Williams was the same lead engineer that developed both projectors...
Quote:


I really like the LS-5 and find it a worthy upgrade to my 7210 but I do have some issues with this particular pj and think I have a faulty unit. I have some shading errors and think it may be due to a bad processor of some kind. The left side of the image is darker than the right. When changing resolutions, the menus or internal test patterns the leftt side of the image goes gray/green for a few seconds and lags behind the left side and remains slightly darker.

Also, I have a few diagonal streaks radiating from the upper right hand side of the image towards the center of the screen. At first I thought it was my screen but it's not. The streaks move with the image if I tilt the pj up or down or side to side.

You DEFINITELY have a problem. My unit's shading was as perfect as I could expect and showed none of the artifacts you are seeing. What input are you using? If I remember correctly, Kris Deering had a similar looking problem with HDMI input 2 on his first unit.
post #683 of 773
Jay5298, glad to hear that you are enjoying your pj. I have a subscription to HT Mag so I 've already read their review but haven't been to the Secrets site in quite a while so that review is new to me. Thanks for the links.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rawise View Post

Did you notice the issues from the beginning or did they develop over time?

I honestly can't say if it was there at the beginning. I didn't notice it at first as I only played a few BluRay and HD DVD discs and watched some cable programming. A friend had borrowed my Spears and Munsil disc and didn't return it until I had around 20 hours on the pj. When I got the disc back and began to set my brightness and contrast levels is when I first noticed it.


Quote:


Hard to tell from the photos if the light/dark is split precisely down the middle -- if so you might check that you don't have the PIP Split Screen mode active. I understand that this applies User Memory 2 settings (those related to the image processor) to the left half of the image. While this could cause light/dark sides, I don't see how it'd be the source of the radial lines that you are seeing.

It's pretty close to being right down the middle. I'll check my PIP settings just to be sure but I have never touched any PIP settings and unless the default setting is active, it should be off. Even if it was on, I also don't see how it could cause the shaded radial lines.


Quote:


When installing, I did have the same experience as you regarding the lens shift -- horizontal and vertical are not completely independent. Good thing is that the lens seems to remain stable once set.

It was a bit of a pain in the a.. but once it was set it hasn't moved at all.


Quote:


I've only put on a few hours, but I'm extremely pleased with what I see thus far. Big improvement over my Samsung H710 in terms of sharpness, contrast, and black level.

I pretty much feel the same way but it would defintely have been more enjoyable if my mine didn't have the issues it does. Nothing takes the shine off of a new toy quicker than having a problem arise and having to send it in for service.


Quote:


The only downside I see so far is a slight light leakage that appears on very dark scenes (mainly dark test patterns) where there is a dim ring of light that shows outside the projection area. It's not noticeable in most normal content, but it does stand out occasionally with dark images after the eye adjusts. I have a white wall behind my screen, so the light is more noticeable than it otherwise would be, although I never noticed anything similar with the Samsung.

That's one thing that I haven't seen with mine and all I can say is that it's time to paint that wall. You'll appreciate the difference it makes. Even more so if you paint the whole room.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Sorel View Post

Cool! The less reflective surfaces anywhere in the room, the better, even though it never mattered in my particular installation.

Yeah, I was pretty happy to see the matte black finish myself.


Quote:


Yup, I agree, the mechanism is sloppy, but even with the slop I got everything lined up perfectly in less than a half hour. It's no big deal anyway, as once it is done it stays lined up until you move the PJ.

Less than 30 minutes... That's because you go through so many pj's that you have mastered the art of installing them.


Quote:


That's the way I ran mine also, though admittedly I would turn on BC and/or AC just for variety and to attempt to compensate for less than pristine transfers.

I'm sure I'll play around with BC and AC in the future just to see how it affects the image but for now I just haven't felt the need to.


Quote:


Don't fret...even my RS-35 fails the hand puppet test miserably, just a shade less miserably than the LS-5...



Even though the black level could be better, I'm quite happy with it and will easily remain content for a few years.


Quote:


Though I don't watch credits, my experience was the same. The only time I saw the iris in action out of 388 hours of viewing was during a switch from a 100% white field to a 0% black field test pattern (and similar other patterns). The DI was never an issue in any way during normal viewing.

I really don't forsee it ever being an issue for me either.


Quote:


As expected. Bob Williams was the same lead engineer that developed both projectors...

I'll be curious to see what he's able to do with LED DLP tech about 3 years from now.


Quote:


You DEFINITELY have a problem. My unit's shading was as perfect as I could expect and showed none of the artifacts you are seeing. What input are you using? If I remember correctly, Kris Deering had a similar looking problem with HDMI input 2 on his first unit.

I agree it's definitely a problem. Funny, the one thing I never worried about when getting a dlp pj was shading uniformity. It's on all inputs, the pj's internal test patterns and the Runco logo screen that comes up when you first turn on the pj.
post #684 of 773
Greetings,
Love this forum and all the great info people post.

Was curious if anyone is using the LS-5 with a anamorphic lens and scope setup, and if so, what their thoughts and setups were.

I'm looking at possibly getting the LS-5 coupled with a Prismasonic lens and a Da-lite HP screen for my semi light controlled, but non bat cave living room.
Thinking of using around a 100" or 104" wide scope screen.
Throw ratio about 2.4
Seating distance about 3x screen height at 11' or so.
Would mount projector on shelf behind seating at about 60" height.

I'm also looking at the Epson 9500 / 8500 and Vivitek 5080

Torn like a sweater......

Thanks Big Nick
post #685 of 773
I have The Runco LS-5 with Panamorph UH-480 lens. My screen is 54" high by 129.5 " wide 2.40:1. I sit about 14.5 feet back 1st row and it's almost to big for me, but I usually sit in the middle or back when I go to movies. I have become more accustomed to the large screen, but it was hard to get use to at first. My room is totally light controlled and I have a Stewart Firehawk G3 screen. I keep the projector on standard lamp power, but could actually use the economy but I don't because the review from hometheaterhifi said the economy lamp mode distorts the colors a bit, hard to really notice though. I love the picture this projector puts out, and would recommend it to anyone. For the price I don't think you can find a better DLP projector.
post #686 of 773
I had my first issue with my Planar 8150 this weekend. My wife and I were watching "Nine" and 45 minutes into the film, the image turned to black. I looked up to see what I think was alternate red and green flashing...but it seemed to turn into just red flashing. The projector fan stayed in cool down mode. After about five minutes, I tried turning off the projector completely, but it wouldn't turn off either by remote or manual. I unplugged the unit and waited another 5 mins or so. I turned the projector back on and it played fine for 90 mins until we were done using it. I watched another 2 hours on Sunday and no issues.

I reviewed the manual and depending on the flashing all red or alternative red/green...it would either be an overheating situation (projector is suspended and neither air way is impeded) or a bulb burning out situation (the door could be ajar...but I've not touched it since owning the projector). I ran a search and couldn't find any other members reporting a similar issue. What say you AVS community? Since I bought this from AVS-I know I'm covered.

Thanks for any help!

Ron

PS: The one and only original bulb has less than 950 hours total (econ. mode).
post #687 of 773
You are always covered with a Runco or Planar. They have an advanced replacement policy.
post #688 of 773
Unplugging for 5 mins. the IF 7200, 7205, 7210 resolved every problem I ever had. Haven't had to do it yet with my Planars. NOTE: This does not work for dead bulbs
post #689 of 773
Thanks to both for your responses. I plan on running the projector over the next couple of nights to see if it happens again. I won't be able to watch any movies next week, so if I have to send in the unit...I'd rather have the downtime when I would miss it less.

Thanks again and take care

Ron
post #690 of 773
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Whitehead View Post

Unplugging for 5 mins. the IF 7200, 7205, 7210 resolved every problem I ever had. Haven't had to do it yet with my Planars. NOTE: This does not work for dead bulbs

Here I was planning to do it next time my bulb died...thanks for nothing
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