or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Any word from Denon about the 2009 - 2010 AVRs?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Any word from Denon about the 2009 - 2010 AVRs? - Page 32

post #931 of 1065
you can learn a lot just by comparing the product sheets and the rear panel photos.

2310CI product sheet: http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR-2310CI_Lit608.pdf
3310CI product sheet: http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR-3310CI_Lit629.pdf

product comparison at Denon site (a few typos but mostly OK):
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDeta...mageField.y=23

this is what I found just checking out the spec sheets and product sheets...

3310CI gets you the following over 2310CI:

- bigger chassis, 4 lbs heaver
- better amp section (more watts, lower THD rating)
- DDSC-HD and "discrete mono amp construction"
- AL24+ processing on FL/FR channels
- Burr-Brown ADC's (and possibly better DAC's as well, unconfirmed)
- "Clock Jitter Reducer" for digital inputs
- Ethernet port for network functions (e.g. web browser control, Rhapsody, HD radio, internet radio, media streaming, etc.)
- Full pre-outs for all 7.1 channels
- Significantly better legacy video support (3rd component video input, higher component video bandwidth, lots of composite and s-video inputs)
- A 3rd coaxial digital audio input
- Digital to analog conversion for multizone / rec out
- 3-Zone/3-Source capabilities
- Video output to Zone 2
- A second 12V trigger out
- Front panel USB input
post #932 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you can learn a lot just by comparing the product sheets and the rear panel photos.

2310CI product sheet: http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR-2310CI_Lit608.pdf
3310CI product sheet: http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR-3310CI_Lit629.pdf

product comparison at Denon site (a few typos but mostly OK):
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDeta...mageField.y=23

this is what I found just checking out the spec sheets and product sheets...

3310CI gets you the following over 2310CI:

- bigger chassis, 4 lbs heaver
- better amp section (more watts, lower THD rating)
- DDSC-HD and "discrete mono amp construction"
- AL24+ processing on FL/FR channels
- Burr-Brown DAC's and ADC's
- "Clock Jitter Reducer" for digital inputs
- Ethernet port for network functions (e.g. web browser control, Rhapsody, HD radio, internet radio, media streaming, etc.)
- Full pre-outs for all 7.1 channels
- Significantly better legacy video support (3rd component video input, higher component video bandwidth, lots of composite and s-video inputs)
- A 3rd coaxial digital audio input
- Digital to analog conversion for multizone / rec out
- 3-Zone/3-Source capabilities
- Video output to Zone 2
- A second 12V trigger out
- Front panel USB input

I can't find anywhere that says Burr Brown DACs only ADC's. Do we know that for sure?
post #933 of 1065
The 4810 looks enticing and my very reliable 4802 is a bit "long in the tooth" with no HDMI or lossless codec support. (Running the BDP-83 via Multichannel in - LFE/SW config a bit of a challenge but sounds pretty spectacluar).

Have not really liked some of the feedback on the 4308 (especially all of the firmware update hassles) and not sure if the 4810 will be any better.

The $3 grand price tag is a bit intimidating as well but since AVR upgrades (for me at least) are few and far between (time wise) then this may be the candidate to jump to.

Hopefully more info will continue to leak out before the Sept release and the sooner the manual becomes available the better.....
post #934 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitting Bull View Post

That is terrific RodK! The 989s are at $999 at FS here in Calgary, though I suppose you might talk them down like you did, since they need to get rid of them now that the 990s are on the way

Yes, it was FS here in Winnipeg that I got it from. they also threw in their 3 year warranty at no charge as it was an open box.
post #935 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

Yes, it was FS here in Winnipeg that I got it from. they also threw in their 3 year warranty at no charge as it was an open box.

Wow, you got an excellent deal RodK

Also to get a 3 year warranty at that price is extra yummy. And who cares if the box was open, I say

When I was at a local FS here in Cowtown about a month ago, the guy was ordering in the last of their warehouse supply of 989s, 22 units, and then that was the end of their stock. That was the Northland Mall location. So there are likely to be some decent deals around these parts for interested parties, but I don't know if they'll part with them for only $799, like you got
post #936 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by PolarOso View Post

So the 4810 will be able to convert digital sources into analog for zone 2 & 3? Interesting...

I'm pretty sure it's not allowed under HDMI copy protection rules for HDMI to be transcoded into analog component. Not sure about a non-HD signal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digitally challe View Post

I see the 4810 will be HDMI 1.4 capable. Just curious as to whether it will possess USB 3.0 capabilities. -Bill

Can anyone expand on HDMI 1.4? I've heard of 1.3b- not sure what that adds either.
post #937 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post

I'm pretty sure it's not allowed under HDMI copy protection rules for HDMI to be transcoded into analog component. Not sure about a non-HD signal.



Can anyone expand on HDMI 1.4? I've heard of 1.3b- not sure what that adds either.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_1_4/index.aspx
post #938 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sitting Bull View Post

When I was at a local FS here in Cowtown about a month ago, the guy was ordering in the last of their warehouse supply of 989s, 22 units, and then that was the end of their stock. That was the Northland Mall location. So there are likely to be some decent deals around these parts for interested parties, but I don't know if they'll part with them for only $799, like you got

If you can be patient, you can get the same deal. It was the last 989 at that FS store and the 2nd last 989 at any FS in Winnipeg. The only thing mine was missing was the manual, but i just downloaded and printed it ( not that it was much help, thanks Batpig!!).
post #939 of 1065
I have a HTPC that sends a HDMI Out (Carrying only video) and an Optical Out separately for Audio. If I plugged these both into the Denon 4310 would the Denon be able to combine these signals so that the HDMI out to my Second Bedroom TV would be carrying both the Video & Audio signal through HDMI allowing me to use the speakers built into the Bedroom TV?

Thanks for any clarification anyone can provide.
post #940 of 1065
no, there is no audio "upconversion". the only audio that can come out of the HDMI OUT is what came in via HDMI.
post #941 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

no, there is no audio "upconversion". the only audio that can come out of the HDMI OUT is what came in via HDMI.

Thanks for the information, do you know of a device that will be able to accomplish this? Combine a HDMI Video IN and an Optical Video IN and Output via HDMI Out?

Thanks again.
post #942 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by diet butcher View Post

I have a HTPC that sends a HDMI Out (Carrying only video) and an Optical Out separately for Audio. If I plugged these both into the Denon 4310 would the Denon be able to combine these signals so that the HDMI out to my Second Bedroom TV would be carrying both the Video & Audio signal through HDMI allowing me to use the speakers built into the Bedroom TV?

Thanks for any clarification anyone can provide.

Don't know if this might help your particular setup...

Several years ago, I recall seeing a [PC] video card [IIRC, PCIe of some kind] which accepted an optical audio input [i.e., output from the PC's sound card] and [I believe] injected corresponding audio frames into the video HDMI output. I think it was an Intel product.
post #943 of 1065
I'm new to Denon AVRs. I'm building a home theater system from scratch. Mostly what I need in video processing is real HDMI 1.3a 1080/24p pass through. What up converting gets done will be done before it gets to the AVR by my Panasonic DMP-BD60 Blu-ray player. What broadcast TV watching I do is typically sports using my rooftop antenna (no cable). There's an ancient VCR to be up converted but that's probably so old and the resolution so low that no amount of up converting can save it; not a big loss.

So what I mostly need from an AVR is SQ. I also don't need a ton of power -- anything above 100 W/ch is mostly overkill. But I do want good processing of the lossless bitsream from Blu-ray disks; both Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA are a must. I do need bi-amping for the front speakers.

Given all that, I'm trying to figure out the biggest bang for the buck from the Denon line. I've got less than $1K to spend on this project. I'm seeing closeouts on the 3808 that will stretch my budget to the limit. Closeouts of the 2809 are like $200 less. If I'm going with either one it would seem like now is the time to act.

OTOH, I'm not in that much of a hurry. I could wait until the pre-Xmas sales (with this economy I expect the sales in Nov/Dec to be pretty good) and look at... a 3310 maybe?

Y'all have much more experience at this than I. And I can't hope to track down all the options and try to listen to them all in an environment that makes any aural sense at all, especially in the time frame allotted by the current line's closeouts. So any words of wisdom gratefully received!
post #944 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

There's an ancient VCR to be up converted...So what I mostly need from an AVR is SQ...But I do want good processing of the lossless bitsream from Blu-ray disks; both Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA are a must. I do need bi-amping for the front speakers...I've got less than $1K to spend on this project. I'm seeing closeouts on the 3808 that will stretch my budget to the limit. Closeouts of the 2809 are like $200 less. If I'm going with either one it would seem like now is the time to act...

Bruce, it looks like you have been doing your homework and analyzing things pretty well. The 2809 and 3808 Faroudja chip actually works well for VCR. You didn't mention your exact speakers or why you biamp. For the most critical listening on expensive (>1000 ea) speakers the 3808 offers some AQ improvement but unless the networking and upgradability matter, the 2809 is a very good performer Sq wise, an excellent value and within your budget. The 3310 is not worth your waiting, it seems to offer you little and is a definite SQ downgrade from the 09 models we are discussing. My advice: yes, strike while the iron is hot.
post #945 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Bruce, it looks like you have been doing your homework and analyzing things pretty well. The 2809 and 3808 Faroudja chip actually works well for VCR. You didn't mention your exact speakers or why you biamp. For the most critical listening on expensive (>1000 ea) speakers the 3808 offers some AQ improvement but unless the networking and upgradability matter, the 2809 is a very good performer Sq wise, an excellent value and within your budget. The 3310 is not worth your waiting, it seems to offer you little and is a definite SQ downgrade from the 09 models we are discussing. My advice: yes, strike while the iron is hot.

That's what I was thinking, so good to know I'm not completely out in left field. Front speakers are and old set Vandersteen 4s BTW. Got 'em for a steal from a guy who wanted to get rid of 'em years ago. And they really want to be bi-amped.

Question about speaker wires. It looks like neither the 3808 nor the 2809 can be used with double banana plugs. I can't really tell, but the pictures of the back panels make it look like the spacing is too big for that. Will they accept spade lugs? Single banana plugs?

And both the 3808 and 2809 look like they have pre-amp outs. True? Handy at least for the sub, and for using external amps if needed.
post #946 of 1065
One more question about the 3808s and 2809s. Anyone know where I can land a good closeout deal? Any place I should avoid?

I seem to remember that Denon enforces something with dealers and warranties. Should I be looking for an "authorized dealer" or some such certification? I want the warranty to be valid because I'm thinking, particularly with the stock of 3808s being low, that I won't be able to exchange for a new one if the one I get experiences some kind of early failure.
post #947 of 1065
Quote:


Question about speaker wires. It looks like neither the 3808 nor the 2809 can be used with double banana plugs. I can't really tell, but the pictures of the back panels make it look like the spacing is too big for that. Will they accept spade lugs? Single banana plugs?

yes, Denon's binding post spacing does not work with standard double bananas. I would go with single bananas, spades would be a bit of a pain to wedge in there, it's pretty crowded.

Quote:


And both the 3808 and 2809 look like they have pre-amp outs. True?

yes, true

Quote:


Should I be looking for an "authorized dealer" or some such certification?

if you want a full 2-yr mfgr's warranty, you must buy from an authorized dealer. If you are looking for a good deal, I would first try prowling your local Best Buy / Fry's type stores and see if you can snag a nice open box deal or something (which would have full warranty). Otherwise, just keep monitoring internet threads esp. at deals sites like slickdeals or fatwallet.
post #948 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post

One more question about the 3808s and 2809s. Anyone know where I can land a good closeout deal? Any place I should avoid?

Bruce, both batpig and SOM know more than I can ever hope to about AVR's but strictly from a pricing perspective remember to consider that if you go for the 3808 you'll probably also end up spending another $100 to get the "Feature Upgrade" package that includes DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume. That package was being offered for free on purchases before the end of April (and some folks were able to hack/steal it after that...) but there is only a small chance that any 3808 you find at retail will already have these upgrades. And I've learned enough from batpig and my own experience that DynamicEQ/Vol are DEFINITELY features you'll want to have. Also, of all of the authorized online Denon dealers only two or three actually have any inventory left (Abt, J&R and Electronics Expo, I think) so if you do want one the iron is indeed probably very hot. If you want a GUI overlaid on HD sources, you will need to get the 3808 as opposed to the 2809.
post #949 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckMule View Post

Bruce, ....of all of the authorized online Denon dealers only two or three actually have any [3808] inventory left (Abt, J&R and Electronics Expo, I think) so if you do want one the iron is indeed probably very hot....

Act, act, act.... J&R recently ran out of the 3808 (along with Amazon, Crutchfield, Listen Up, Sixth Av., Vann's, etc., all whom ran out within the last month). Abt seems to have reacted to this supply vs. demand issue, though Electronics Expo not as much (if you get might drift).... Dakmart still seems to have refurbished units too.
post #950 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

Act, act, act.... J&R recently ran out of the 3808 (along with Amazon, Crutchfield, Listen Up, Sixth Av., Vann's, etc., all whom ran out within the last month). Abt seems to have reacted to this supply vs. demand issue, though Electronics Expo not as much (if you get might drift).... Dakmart still seems to have refurbished units too.

The same can be said about the 2809's. Very few places have them left in stock. As should be expected it seems that they're clearing out inventory to make room for the XX10's.
post #951 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

Act, act, act.... J&R recently ran out of the 3808 (along with Amazon, Crutchfield, Listen Up, Sixth Av., Vann's, etc., all whom ran out within the last month). Abt seems to have reacted to this supply vs. demand issue, though Electronics Expo not as much (if you get might drift).... Dakmart still seems to have refurbished units too.

Just got off the phone with Electronics Expo -- two new units left. Sadly, above my budget. But I'm sure no one here would have any experience with wanting something they can't afford.

So next up -- used units. Maybe I can latch hold of one when someone else decides to upgrade. I'm already monitoring the AVS "Audio Gear for Sale" forum. And of course feeBay. Anyone have any suggestions of where else to look for a used 3808?
post #952 of 1065
You can always check with the Denon authorized refurbished vendors such as Dakmart.com which gets fair reviews.
post #953 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You can always check with the Denon authorized refurbished vendors such as Dakmart.com which gets fair reviews.

While I can't talk prices, the cost of a refurbished 3808 from Dakmart (the others listed by Denon don't have any) much less than that from Electronics Expo when you add in their s/h, especially since you lose Denon's warranty. OTOH, Bruce - since you're talking about "used" I guess the warranty isn't an issue; if so, Amazon is listing a refurbished one for a much better price than Dakmart (though I don't know how "much" less is needed to meet your budget...). Other than that you may get lucky at eBay (though I've seen few deals there), but goin' fishin' for a used one via the myriad of choices is probably the only way to hit much lower price point...good luck!
post #954 of 1065
For those of you who are deciding between the 2310 and the 3310, note that for $101 more than the 3310's street, you can get 2 2310's (street).

If you absolutely need/want the added features of the 3310, then it's a must-have for you. Otherwise, I suggest that you do as I did, and purchase a 2310 from a dealer with a no-restocking fee policy first.

I'm 95% sure that the 2310 will work for me (I have a 2307 now), but if it doesn't, I'll just pay $30/$40 shipping to return it and then (and only then) upgrade to a 3310/4310.

By all means, buy a Denon, but you should think twice before spending your hard earned money (in this economy) on features you don't REALLY need, IMO.

P.S.
While CYA is ok if your truly serious about a product, don't be an a**hole by ordering a product knowing full well that your going to return it beforehand.

Of course, no AVSer would ever do that......right ???
post #955 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

.... especially since you lose Denon's warranty.

The warranty is reduced from 2 years to 1 year at Dakmart, although any problem likely to occur will generally do so within the first 90 days which is the warranty offered by the other refurbished vendors.
post #956 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The warranty is reduced from 2 years to 1 year at Dakmart, although any problem likely to occur will generally do so within the first 90 days which is the warranty offered by the other refurbished vendors.

My understanding is that the warranty is with Dakmart only (i.e., you can't contact Denon for any support) - that's what I meant by "losing the Denon warranty", but maybe I have the details of this wrong.
post #957 of 1065
Dakmart is an authorized reseller, you shouldn't lose the Denon warranty. It is just shorter because they're selling factory refurbished units.
post #958 of 1065
Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

My understanding is that the warranty is with Dakmart only (i.e., you can't contact Denon for any support) - that's what I meant by "losing the Denon warranty", but maybe I have the details of this wrong.

Even if the "refurbished" vendor warranties are with the vendors themselves, where do you think they'll have you send a unit for repair? .... an "authorized" Denon repair facility. Bottom, line is you're still covered if there are problems, and if any problems do occur, they would most likely occur in the first 90 days.
post #959 of 1065
The UPS guy just delivered a spankin' new 3310 from ABT. Probably won't have a chance to set it up until tomorrow night, but I'll post some impressions once I do. Right now all I can tell you is that it looks and smells nice
post #960 of 1065
UPS also just delivered my 3310. Woo and Hoo! Now I just gotta wait until I get home tonight to start playing around with it.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Receivers, Amps, and Processors
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Receivers, Amps, and Processors › Any word from Denon about the 2009 - 2010 AVRs?