TVGOS ( TV Guide On Screen ) Devices - Page 47

Thanks Trip. I agree with your comments. My Sony TV can get its 24hr guide from the internet, but I never use it. The "discontinue" ad is also different.

I value the table and would like to see it stay current, but I don't want to make extra work for anyone. Also, I'm cable only so I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I do wonder if loss of listings means loss of the time. I don't know enough to even begin to speculate. When, in the near future, my cable feed is told it will not get more listings, I wonder if I can get the boss there to leave the inserter running to see what happens. I gues I'll just wait.

From what I understand, it is the inserters that are being pulled. I presume once the last inserter is removed, the TVGOS data that was serving all those inserters will be shut off. I really doubt that they would leave any inserters in place, since that is apparently part of the expense they are trying to reduce.

Mark

Or add a warning that stations will discontinue TVGOS service sometime before next April, or whenever it is. I can attest from personal experience that WNTV-29 (Greenville SC), WNEH-38 (Greenwood SC) and WRET-49 (Spartanburg SC), all part of South Carolina ETV, have discontinued TVGOS. The last data was for Monday 11/12, presumably sent out a week earlier.

I now have a TiVo Premiere up and running, and I was pleased to find that it gives me data for not only Greenville SC (my "home" DMA), but also the neighboring Columbia SC and Charlotte NC DMAs (presumably based on my ZIP code), and I can actually tune those stations even though I did the initial channel scan with my antenna pointed towards Greenville. It looks like TiVo sends the RF <--> virtual channel mapping along with the guide data for your ZIP code, regardless of whether you can actually receive the station at that time.
Edited by jtbell - 11/18/12 at 2:51pm

No longer able to use TV Guide On Screen® system
Solution


The TV Guide On Screen syetem is a 3rd party service currently provided by the Rovi® Corporation and is available on some Sony TVs and digital recording products.

Currently the data for the Guide is sent by way of over-the-air and cable broadcast transmissions, as well as by way of Internet connection to compatible devices.

Starting on November 1, 2012 the Rovi Corporation will start discontinuing the broadcast transmission of data from all US locations and will complete that process by April, 2013 . Once the broadcast transmission ends in a location, the TV Guide On Screen service will only be available to devices that are Internet update capable, and are connected to an active network connection.

NOTES:

Not all Sony® products are supplied with the ability to receive TV Guide On Screen updates through an active Internet connection. To see if your product has the ability to receive TV Guide On Screen updates through an active Internet connection, check the specifications, which are available through the Manuals/Specs/Warranty link on this page.
There is no technical fix to re-enable the TV Guide On Screen service for the products that are not capable of reciving updates via the Internet, the change is as a result of the decision of the Rovi Corporation to discontinue the over-the-air and cable broadcast transmission and not a service issue with the product itself.

This is what Sony sent me when I inquired about my XBR6, only 4yrs old
I guess when they send me a questionnaire about their products and if will I be buying in the future:

My third party supports says no buying of Sony products ever, period.

What do you think they meant by cable broadcast?

The message on my EX700 from internet-based TVGOS is slightly different, but does say that "Bravia based" guides may not be affected. I have no idea what they are talking about on that, but if you read the posts starting Nov 1 here, on the DTVPal DVR and Sony DHG threads you will learn a lot.

I have several units which utilize TVGOS via OTA broadcast as I live in a rural fringe area w/o cable or satellite -- 1) an analog-tuner Panasonic DMR-E85H which is now fed by a DISH DTVPal digital converter box and 2) a Channel Master CM-7000Pal DVR. I believe the DTVPal was actually manufactured by Channel Master who sold the same device under their own brand with slightly different external markings. Consequently, I have submitted the following support request with those same links above to Channel Master and will report back to this forum what information is provided in response. Under the circumstances, however, I may just be SOL.

"Reason for Tech Support Request: Rovi Corp. has announced they will discontinue the broadcast transmission of TV Guide On Screen information throughout North America and will completely cease everywhere by April 13, 2013. In some areas where users are still able to receive full program listing information via their units, an announcement has been presented in the on-screen message listings to this effect. I learned about this through the links provided below, but my question to Channelmaster in regards to this is simple: will the units I've noted above in use with my equipment cease functioning -- particularly with respect to the automatic time-setting reference -- when Rovi discontinues the TV Guide information via broadcast? I live in a rural area and receive only OTA broadcast television signals, and do not have Internet service or access within my house where the television, DVR and converter are located (though I do have wireless broadband service in an outbuilding where my office computers are located). If the equipment will still receive the coordinated time-setting reference information, then I may still utilize the equipment on a manual-recording basis but if the time-setting function(s) will also be discontinued, the Channel Master equipment functionality will be greatly marginalized."

Manual clock setting is your best solution, but you will probably get one of the previously posted canned answers in a few days.

I don't have an E85H, but I have an E95H, and I can disable the TVGOS on it, and then I have the ability to set the time manually. I presume the E85H will work the same, so it should be a non-issue. The CM-7000 Pal can get the time, and less detailed guide listings from PSIP, so it should also be a non-issue. I also have a DTVPal, and a Sony DHG that both use TVGOS as well. I have already disabled the TVGOS on the DTVPal, so I can get used to being without the extended listings. No issues at all so far, but I'll miss the Sony when TVGOS is gone.

Mark

From my cable company:

Copyright © 2012 Rovi Corporation
Discontinuing Rovi Broadcast Data
Rovi Broadcast Data Update and FAQ
Rovi is discontinuing its over-the-air transmission of television listings in North America. The shut-off has already begun, and is planned to be complete by April 2013. Consumer electronic devices in North America that do not use an internet connection to receive guide data will be impacted by this change. These devices will no longer have access to guide data; as such the guides on these devices will no longer be functional. Guides that use the Internet to receive guide data will not be affected.
The decision to discontinue this type of data service is a result of the discontinuance of services from other third party vendors and the changing technology environment. We regret any inconvenience.
Rovi Guides receiving data via an Internet connection, such as an internet connected TV will not be affected with this shut-off.
Frequently Asked Questions
Q: Why is Rovi discontinuing its broadcast data service?
The current market is undergoing a transition to digital data service delivered through the Internet. To deliver the data broadcast service Rovi has relied on over-the-air traditional broadcast data service providers. The agreements with these service providers are in the process of ending as a result of the market change. Additionally, cable television systems are beginning to encrypt their signals which will disrupt the transmission of the data through broadcast services.
These factors are in addition to the fact that the consumer electronics ecosystem in general, is undergoing a transition to digital data services delivered through the Internet which has resulted in a decline of broadcast data usage.
Q: What will happen to my guide?
After the guide stops receiving the broadcast data, it will normally retain the lineup but display “No Listings” for a few weeks. At some point, or after resetting the guide, a “No Data For this Screen” or similar message will display on the screen when the guide is accessed.
Q: What products are affected?
All guides in TVs, DTVs and CE DVRs, including the Rovi Guide Plus+ and TV Guide on Screen products, that receive broadcast data via an antenna or a cable television connection in the US and Canada will be affected. Rovi Guides that receive their data via the Internet will not be affected.
Q: Will I be able to get guide data elsewhere?
Rovi will continue to provide this data over the Internet for internet capable Guides, including Rovi Guides and MediaGuides found in select models of Internet-connected TV’s.

The technical boss for my headend passed this on to me.

I wonder how difficult it would be for an electrical engineer to take the TVGOS internet feed and insert the data into the CATV feed on the backs of our now-outdated DVR's?

Probably not very, but (1) unless there's something in it for the engineer and the station, it's not going to happen, and (2) there may be legal entanglements as well.

So I think J-Alan's question is academic.  Easy or difficult, it is extremely improbable.

I get the internet feed on my TV. It's only 24 hours and does set the clock. Other that that it's not useful for me since my cable company strips the PSIP and the TV has no cable card ability.

Joe,

My 2006 Panasonic PlasmaTV TH50PX500U uses a cable card which SECTV remapped with analog to get the TVGOS, could I still get the feed if they could insert it directly. They just updated some equipment a few minths ago and it is discussed in this forum. Why would they go through all that and just unplug it? What ever happened to the minimum of 10 years MFG support they used to have on US products, some legal thing I remember, guess someone forgot about that. My Pana should have MFG.Technical Support until 2016! I guess this is where the BBB comes in!! Lets not fall into there game, buy buy buy! Rovi should be required to make a way for us to get TVGOS. How can they walk and say it's the market, BS!!

The more I thinks about all this, it is huge, all the devices that have a TVGUIDE kind of system, what will replace TVGOS? Does the newer WiFi capable TV's and BluRay players have a Guide? I don't believe I have seen one yet!! If so which one would be worth the upgrade. I just replaced old Sony tube TV in the bedroom with a Samsung Widescreen, it is not a smart TV, they cost 200 - 300 more.

The newer TV sets rely on PSIP data, which we don't have. There are many Sony, Panasonic, Mitsubishi, CM7000 and DTVPal DVR units that are affected. All of us feel screwed by Rovi. My efforts have been centered on what will I do when the data stops flowing. I have asked my headend tech boss to email me when/if he gets the word to ship back my inserter. That might not matter if SE drops analog first or if Rovi stops the feed first. I'm speculating that the clock and listings don't depend on each other. My other work has been making VHS tapes of the data stream. My DVR is on a UPS and can rebuild everything from a VCR. There is one move I have made that makes this not a great problem: I bought a TiVo. I also have two Magnavox DVDR units that can hold 100 hours each in SD from a clear QAM signal. They do a great job of 1080p upconversion. No guide needed either. I got my money's worth from the DHG and nothing lasts forever. To date I have only heard that PBS OTA stations have lost their inserters. One day at a time. I'm hoping to keep the feed until 3/10 so I can capture DST data.

More data:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/344797/roanoke-va-bluefield-wv-hdtv/5910#post_22587110
Edited by JoeKustra - 12/6/12 at 11:40am

 

Any one with a browser, so you can go directly to Titan TV or Zap2It.

 

I noticed you've said that on more than one occasion lately. If I may ask, what size is your TV screen?

Edited by Rammitinski - 12/6/12 at 12:06pm

Small. Sony 32EX700. Smaller screens usually are more forgiving of flaws and poorer pictures. My viewing space is only 12x14 also, so a larger screen would be a tight fit. I think my speakers take up more space.

Also, the channels & shows I view are usually HD at their origination. The Mag is usually fed 480i that started as 1080i or 720p and everything is HDMI. I never have a reason to watch analog. The TiVo has a cable card and gets all 1080i and usually 5.1 but sometimes stereo gets sent. Cable companies never make 5.1 from 2.0 to my knowledge. My DHG units and TV don't have cable cards.

An upconverted picture is not the same as a picture that stays 1080 from source to destination, but for $200 to $300, its a nice reliable machine with few quirks.

A very important fact that gets lost in this argument is Macrovision (now Rovi) bought Gemstar for the massive TVGuide database and not for TVGOS. Selling access to the TVGuide database is where they are going to make their money as the database has been built up since the beginning of the TVGuide magazine, which is in th early 1950s.

Toshiba has some TV out now that have the new Rovi Guide in them:
http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/support/manuals/userguides/su3380324/GMA300007012_L6200-L7200_12Apr30.pdf
The set up of it begins on page 51 and the use of the Media Guide is on page 153. It is possible that this guide can contol the Sony DHG through the use of the IR Blaster. The Media Guide will treat it as a like on old VCR. I like the warning that is given on page 155:

❖ Third party Internet services are not provided by Toshiba, may
change or be discontinued at any time and may be subject to
Internet service provider restrictions. Toshiba makes no
warranties, representations, or assurances about the content,
availability or functionality of third-party content or services. Use
of third party Internet services may require the creation of a
separate account through a computer with Internet access and/or
payment of one-time and/or recurring charges and membership.
Not all third party services may be available on or compatible
with this product. In order to experience the full suggested
capabilities of this product, fully-compatible devices may be
required.
❖ Service Information may not be displayed or there may be little
service information displayed depending on the area or the kind
of broadcast.
❖ The MediaGuide can only be used when your TV is connected to
the Internet.
❖ Starting and operation of this service may take several minutes.
❖ Software updates may be needed in order to use this service.
❖ During use of the MediaGuide, usage information will be notified
to the Rovi server to ensure continued efficient operation of the
guide.
❖ In order to experience the full suggested capabilities of this
product, fully-compatible devices may be required. This feature
is not available in Mexico, and certain features may not be
available in all countries.

JoeKustra and mabuttra -- thanks for the responses, which are completely in line with what Channel Master Tech Support provided:

Thank you for your email. That is a very good question. When the Rovi TV Guide goes out the CM-7000pal will still receive the guide and time information via something called PSIP. However it will be limited and won't be the best it will still give you what you need to run the CM-7000pal. Thank you and have a great day.

I've posted a follow-up question to the tech who responded about whether the DTVpal will also utilize PSIP, as it is mostly the time reference function I would like both of them to retain although the TVGOS information is also handy.

You on this thread, that are in major TV markets, should contact your state representatives about this Flim-Flam. Large numbers of complaints from major market consumers might get the attention of a lawmaker, try a liberal one first. Use something like the following in your protest.

When the FCC, representing the American public, first granted HD frequency’s to OTA, Cable and Steatite companies they ruled that no extra fees could be charge for HD content. Because the American public owns the Radio/TV frequencies, CE manufactures and Cable Co’s were required to provide CableCard for and on DCR (digital cable ready) TV’s and CableCard was born. A Guide was required in the FCC ruling, thus TVGOS was created. But the wording in the Guide rule was loosely constructed and within a few years just ignore by most in the TV industry.

We’ve been watching the slow killing of TVGOS by the TV industries monopolist Corporations working illegally to fix and increased prices for HD content.
Getting the free Guide out of the way has been done, watch your TV and internet prices rise.

Has anyone ever seen an ad for TVGOS on the tube, even at the time of its creation? Surprise, Surprise…

I think you are confusing the TVGOS guide (created by Rovi), with the PSIP guide (mandated by the FCC). The PSIP guide is the only "required" guide. TVGOS was just icing on the cake. Sorry, but we aren't losing the FCC mandated guide when TVGOs goes away. I'm hoping that these people going off the deep end and contacting Rovi, or their senators, or whoever will listen have half a clue what they are talking about. I have seen a lot of misinformation about this stuff being spouted as "fact".

Mark

But part of the problem is that so few stations are meeting the FCC requirements and actually giving out useful (if any) guide info over PSIP.  If all stations complied with the mandate from the FCC, the loss of TVGOS would be a much smaller issue.

We won't get Rovi to extend the provision of TVGOS over the air; it's a business decision and they've determined that it's unprofitable.  But it certainly would be nice to get the TV stations to do their job and give proper and adequate guide info in their PSIP signals.

The FCC only requires 12 hours of guide data. Most stations I've seen are providing at least that much, the ones that are required to at least (LPTVs are not required to provide any guide data at all).

- Trip

They aren't?  What about Class-A stations?

Class A stations are bound by the same rules as full power stations, so they are supposed to provide 12 hours as well.

- Trip

Thank you.  I can never remember which of the non-full-power stations here are Class A and which are LP.  (That's what your site is for, yes.)  Still, I'm pretty dang sure that not all the Class A's here are living up to it, WOCK being one of them.  A PSIP guide that says nothing but equal lengths of "regular programming" or "DTV" shouldn't be acceptable.

Hmm; according to your lists at rabbitears.info, WPVN is also -CD, and it has zero PSIP guide info.  I thought WWME was Class A, and it does give guide info for a few hours, but you have it down as an -LD.
Edited by dattier - 12/8/12 at 9:58am

WWME's analog is class A, the digital is currently not. At some point, they'll transfer the protection over, but Class A stations can only have one or the other protected at a given time.

- Trip

Thank you for that as well.  It puzzles me why analogs that just simulcast content that is also available by ATSC remain on the air, especially a case like WWME-CA, whose content is available on a full-power digital station that had to drop analog 3 1/2 years ago.

^^^^^^
Same post in several threads. Guess that's one way to get exposure.