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NHT Speaker Clone Project: VR-3 - Page 2

post #31 of 81
Great job!!!

I went the lazy route and Im getting Nik over on PE forums to build my VR-3 boxes for me. I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks though

I will be veneering my VR-3s with cherry veneer stained to a African Mahogany finish to match my family room floors.
post #32 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Yup, first time. The box construction isn't too hard. But if I had to build the crossovers, it would have made this job very difficult for me. I know as much about building crossovers as your typical 10 year old! So it would've been a major learning curve.

And honestly, after seeing these, I'd be a bit worried about trying to build something like that in a future project.

lmao, so true
post #33 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Great job!!!

I went the lazy route and Im getting Nik over on PE forums to build my VR-3 boxes for me. I have to wait 3 to 4 weeks though

I will be veneering my VR-3s with cherry veneer stained to a African Mahogany finish to match my family room floors.

If you don't mind me asking what is it costing you to have someone else build the boxes? I am really interested in doing this but I know I don't have the box building skills to get it done like the OP.
post #34 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by ProblemHouston View Post

If you don't mind me asking what is it costing you to have someone else build the boxes? I am really interested in doing this but I know I don't have the box building skills to get it done like the OP.

I do not think its fair to Nik Brewer to post any of his quotes. I will PM you his info.
post #35 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I do not think its fair to Nik Brewer to post any of his quotes. I will PM you his info.

Got it thanks...
post #36 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I will be veneering my VR-3s with cherry veneer stained to a African Mahogany finish to match my family room floors.

PLEASE post pics of those!

African Mahogany finish on Cherry veneer will look as breath-taking as they will sound!

Now you got me impatient for you to get your speakers!
post #37 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by PassingInterest View Post

PLEASE post pics of those!

African Mahogany finish on Cherry veneer will look as breath-taking as they will sound!

Now you got me impatient for you to get your speakers!

Im going to try the stain/veener option out on one of my RB kits first...its a work in progress to get the right stain!

I will have a thread on those RBs soon, the boxes from Nik are done and in my garage for those. I couldn't have done it myself better or cheaper then he did.
post #38 of 81
Thread Starter 
I should point something out that's pretty important with this build. It's certainly not a design flaw, but this may make it a little easier.

The cutout for the terminal cup should be moved up a little bit for the mains. After you build the basic part of the enclosure you'll need to drill the holes for the crossover inside the box. It's done prior to installing the inner chamber.

The drawing pretty much has the crossover butted up on the bottom wall. The problem is that it will be hard to drill the screw holes for the crossover in that position, unless you have a drill bit extension. Without an extension, you can't drill a hole 1/4" out from a corner, your drill won't fit. It would also be harder to install the screws as well.

So if you move the crossover away from the bottom piece of mdf about 1", you can easily get everything lined up. Here's the problem with that, by moving the crossover up, it will be too close to the termianl cup cutout that you'll make on the back.


Here's a photo showing what I mean:



That's the center channel, and that's about where the crossover sits inside the box (1" away from the sides is 2" away on the outside of the box).

It's not too big of a deal for the center channel because the terminal cup is positioned differently.

But as you can see, if you are building one of the mains, you need to turn the terminals length wise, which would not fit properly. So you basically need to move the terminal cup UP on the box about an inch I believe. I'll double check my measurements, but I believe I moved the crossover up 1", so I needed to shift the terminals up that far.

The good thing is that you will still have access to the rear of the tweeter heatsink if you only move it about 1".

It's not a huge deal, but I could see it ruining someone's day if them missed that. Luckily, I looked a few steps ahead as I was building, so I didn't have an issue. And as mentioned, it really isn't a design problem because a drill bit extension could be used to drill the holes and install the screws.
post #39 of 81
Thanks Eric, good to know if/when I send the specs off for a build.
post #40 of 81
Thread Starter 
I've got a better picture showing one of the mains:

The top of my terminal cup is 7.5" from the top of the enclosure. I'm talking about the outside edge of the terminal cup, not the actual hole cutout. And if you look even closer, you can see some fresh bananas on my countertop. Those aren't really needed with this build. They're roughly 3' 6" from the inside edge of the corner, and they appear to be butted up against the wall as well. If anyone needs exact measurements down to the millimeter, just let me know!

post #41 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Luckily, I looked a few steps ahead as I was building, so I didn't have an issue.

Good catch. I'm glad you looked ahead and caught that.

I'm juggling other things right now, but as soon as I see some daylight I will begin building mine. Thanks for blazing the trail for us on this one.
post #42 of 81
Those are turning out really nice!
post #43 of 81
Erich,

This issue was covered in the supplied construction document. Did you forget to read it
post #44 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

Erich,

This issue was covered in the supplied construction document. Did you forget to read it

Comeon he's a man. Who reads instructions anyways????
post #45 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

Erich,

This issue was covered in the supplied construction document. Did you forget to read it

I may have read the *original* document, not the upgraded version #2!

My directions just say 'during cabinet assembly, lay the crossover down....to mark the holes.' So I figured many would put the top/bottom/sides together, next install the rear panel, THEN lay the crossover in the box and mark the holes. Seems logical anyway.

I wouldn't consider it a bad issue and certainly not a flaw. Just a heads up for those that may put the back on prior to drilling the holes for the crossover. I'm betting a few people would do it. Then they'd just assume they could move the crossover to make the drill fit.....later cut the terminal hole not even thinking of where that crossover was going to be laying.....then get mad and start smashing things!

As mentioned though, a drill bit extension would even solve that issue.



But hey, I'm good to go on this one anyway.


Jack, you're the professional, so let me ask a question: for a first time build using your design, would I get a passing grade so far? Maybe a C+? B-?
post #46 of 81
VERY nice build Erich!!! Can't wait to see the final product and to get your comments on the sound. Subscribed!!!
post #47 of 81
Awesome thread!
post #48 of 81
Thread Starter 
Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments.

Can anyone recommend a certain type of primer? I've seen some that say they're for automobiles, but I'm not sure what the difference would be. Does it have any type of filler mixed in?
post #49 of 81
Erich,

The primers for automobiles usually have fillers that increase elasticity. Most likely not necessary for your speakers.

Ray
post #50 of 81
You can also buy a high build primer which is a little like spray on filler (bondo).
post #51 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments.

Can anyone recommend a certain type of primer? I've seen some that say they're for automobiles, but I'm not sure what the difference would be. Does it have any type of filler mixed in?

I used a sandable filler primer on most of my Linkwitz Orions; probably the duplicolor one (that was nearly six years ago).

http://www.duplicolor.com/products/primer.html

You can't tell a difference between the MDF face and end grain.
post #52 of 81
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the information. I primed them once with the white primer I had. It didn't have any filler. That seemed to go okay, but I had a few very small areas where the primer didn't seem to want to adhere. I sanded them down last night and will go back over them again with primer/filler to see how it goes.
post #53 of 81
Thread Starter 
I bought some of the filler primer and that made things much easier. I ended up using one coat of regular primer and 2 coats of the filler stuff.

As for painting, my idea about putting the blue coat on first, then the hammered black, would have actually worked and looked good. But it was my fault that it didn't. I haven't done much spray painting, so I was a little nervous about ruining the whole project.

Here's what I did. I painted the speakers with a nice bright blue. I figured the brigher the better, because it had to shine through the thin black areas. I didn't go nuts, just a real quick coat as you'll see.

Then after it dried, I started in with the hammered Rustoleum. As I was going along, I noticed the blue showing through in some portions (like it was suppose to). But I wasn't seeing that look over the whole baffle. Well, I started worrying about my coverage, so I put it on a little thicker......don't worry, I didn't have any paint runs. But, the extra coverage pretty much covered up the blue that was trying to peek through. Bummer. I suppose I had a bit of a panic attack worrying about the end result, and laid it on thicker!

So I guess I messed up my neat idea a bit. I'll tell ya though, by my 3rd box, I saw that it would have looked really nice. But at that point, I had to keep them all the same.

I saw one thing that would have looked even better. I went back to buy 2 more cans of the hammered stuff and noticed another finish that was basically the same. But it had a bit more of a wet swirl look to it, which would have shown more of my blue color. I'll have to experiment with that some day.


Either way, here are my photos. Keep in mind, these aren't real good pictures. I'll get closeups of the final finish later.

Quick blue coat (it wasn't quite as bright as this looks):




And the final coat which was pretty much an entire can on each enclosure.

post #54 of 81
Thread Starter 
Can anyone recommend a clear coat? Or do I actually need it with this type of paint. I used some on metal once and it seemed to be pretty strong without anything else.

But should I apply some it anyway?




I just had a thought. The blue coat probably wasn't 100% dry. It was on for at least an hour or two, but maybe that wasn't long enough. So that could have been another reason why the Rustoleum couldn't seperate itself like it was suppose to. Just a guess.
post #55 of 81
Those are going to turn out great. Keep up the good work.
post #56 of 81
Its funny that NTH calls these satellite speakers The VT-3 must have been monsters!!!

My kits are sitting in the garage....descisions to build boxes or pay someone.....hmmmm. I think I have to build now because I just spend $650 on a new pre/pro I couldnt pass up the Onkyo 885p deal. Top end pre/pro with all the bells/whistles and XLR outputs for $600 yes!!
post #57 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Its funny that NTH calls these satellite speakers The VT-3 must have been monsters!!!

My kits are sitting in the garage....descisions to build boxes or pay someone.....hmmmm. I think I have to build now because I just spend $650 on a new pre/pro I couldnt pass up the Onkyo 885p deal. Top end pre/pro with all the bells/whistles and XLR outputs for $600 yes!!



They were a bit on the large size!


NHT VT-3 speaker link
post #58 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Its funny that NTH calls these satellite speakers The VT-3 must have been monsters!!!

My kits are sitting in the garage....descisions to build boxes or pay someone.....hmmmm. I think I have to build now because I just spend $650 on a new pre/pro I couldnt pass up the Onkyo 885p deal. Top end pre/pro with all the bells/whistles and XLR outputs for $600 yes!!

Yeh, these will weigh in over 45 pounds each I think. The originals were around 40, but they used the 3/4" mdf.

Penngray, as long as you take your time with the router, you should be okay. You just have to really pay attention to details.


I do have some good news, I looked at my center channel today and some of the blue did make it through. It's enough to give it a slight hint of color if you look close enough.

Here's the thing, I bought one can of the hammered stuff from Lowes just for trials first. It had an unusual type of trigger, sort of like a bottle of Windex window cleaner. On my mains I bought 2 seperate cans, I used the same color/brand, but with the normal style trigger.

The normal trigger put it on just like you would think. But when I did my center channel with the other style can, it threw out some bigger droplets. The color is identical, but it let a bit of the blue come through and the finish is slightly different. It looks thicker with a bit more shine.

Good thing I used the same exact can on the mains. But honestly, from a couple feet away, the center looks identical. And I think if I put a clear coat on them, it won't matter anyway.




Quick Question: Can anyone give a recommendation about the clear coat? Do I need it? Should I use it no matter what anyway? Do they make something that isn't extremely glossy?
post #59 of 81
This speaker seems like a conceptual brother to the NHT T6 that was rated class-A by Stereophile. They had the same WMTW configuration, the same chambered design, the same tweeter heatsink -- just about identical. However, the T6 L/C/R speakers were the same (the satellite version was the M6), with the tweeter not being offset for L/R vertical placement.

If Jack is reading, I'd be curious about which design came first.
post #60 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by chim_chim View Post

This speaker seems like a conceptual brother to the NHT T6 that was rated class-A by Stereophile. They had the same WMTW configuration, the same chambered design, the same tweeter heatsink -- just about identical. However, the T6 L/C/R speakers were the same (the satellite version was the M6), with the tweeter not being offset for L/R vertical placement.

If Jack is reading, I'd be curious about which design came first.


I had asked Jack about M6 in a previous thread. Ill paste his reply here as it was very informative and may answer your question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Hidley View Post

The M6 was designed as sort of an updated VR-3. We used exactly the same 6.5" Peerless woofer, but a smaller midrange (Peerless 4" versus 5.25"). One of the main goals of the M6 was to keep as much of the performance of the VR-3, but reduce the size as much as possible. The VR-3 has significantly more bass extension, but since most people high pass the satellite speaker at 80Hz, we shrunk the box in the M6 and gave up the bass extension.

The frequency response of the M6 is a little smoother due to the readii on the cabinet edges. One of the big differences is the boundary switch on the M6. It really does help the speaker have the correct bass/low midrange balance no matter where it is placed. With the VR-3 you had one location where the speaker sounded best, but this is no different than virtually any other speaker made.

The VR-3 had a small problem with a standing wave in the midrange chamber due to its size. This required using fiberglass to stop. Not a good thing to deal with in production. In the M6 and M5, we used a smaller midrange chamber that was molded and had all nonparallel walls so there were absolutely no standing wave problems.

Since the woofer to midrange crossover frequency in the M6 is higher than the VR-3 and the woofers are in a smaller box, the M6 can play somewhat louder. We also toed in the main radiation in the midrange a lot more with the M6 than we did with the VR-3. To see what I am talking about, go to the NHT website, find the Evolution manual under the service center section, and read the section in the back on VFIG.

I have plenty of drivers and crossovers to make kits for the M5 and M6, but there are some problems. Both speakers use molded midrange chambers. You could duplicate something in wood that is close enough. We don't have heatsinks for the tweeters. I would have to have those machined. The main problem is that it would probably take 20 hours for me to turn it all into a kit like to VR-3/VC-3 kit. That is how long it took me to do it for the VR-3/VC-3. Without some preorders, I'm not inclined to invest the time or money right now.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the M6 kits. I should have jumped on the VRs.
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