Verity Fidelio/ Wilson Audio Watt Puppy 5.1/ B&W Nautilus 802N/802D/ Revel Ultima

Have you listened to these? They are have a fairly different sound from one another so it is surprising to see them as your final choices. No matter what anyone says here nothing is as import as how they sound to you.

What kind of room do you have? What kind of sound do you like? Off the top, I would say that the N802 is not a particularly good speaker, though the 802D is pretty good and better at all frequencies. All are pricey at new prices, but are much better values at used. Revels are probably the most resolving, though I do find them to be a bit clinical on the rock/pop stuff. In any case, are you going to listen to these or is this an 'audiogon' type deal?

Why do you say this?

It is between Revel and 802D.

Keith, I'd agree with rydenfan, you almost couldn't pick a different sounding set of speakers if you tried! If your room wasn't as big, I'd say go Verity, the most neutral and least fatiguing of the lot. The Studio is alright, but it has a bloated bass, having owned it in the past, I can tell you you'll be looking for something else pretty quick.

That said, the Wilsons are worse! As for the B&W, IMHO, either you hate the or love 'em. If those are the only speakers you've heard among the lot and liked them, then I'd say go for it.

i think he meant those designed with coal firing plant electricity are under power. you need nuclear generated electricity

As an B&W 800D owner I would agree that the 800 series needs a lot of power in amps. I am using Electrocompaniet Nemos AW600 and have tried other "weaker" amps as well but the difference is there and is big. I also have a Bryston 14BSST that I have not tried yet but I doubt that it can drive them anywhere close that well as the Nemos.

Sure they will play even with lesser amps but try them with big bad monoblocks and you will hear a different sound.

Just because a speaker can handle a lot of power does not mean you need a lot of power, it all depends on how loud you like to listen.

I would throw the Martin Logan Summit X into the mix if you can find a pair to listen to. They have made some big improvements compared to the highly acclaimed original Summit. The bottom end is supposed to be much tighter to go with the panel improvements evident in the Spire.

I haven't heard the Summit X but have a pair on order. The original Summit sounded great and the current Spire ($8500) sounds even better (although I would not necessarily call them full range).

As long as you do not smoke or have them in direct sun light.

If you listened to Martin Logan Speakers pre Summit (2005 or so) you may not have been entirely impressed. The Summit was a pretty dramatic improvement and the Spire and now Summit X are even better. The mesh of the cone based, low frequency drivers to the ESL panels in these speakers are very seamless.

And I agree Doug, Martin Logan is not a good speaker if you are a smoker as the panel seems to attract the smoke but then again I doubt that smoke is very good for any speaker, especially for it's resale value. And having any speaker in direct sunlight is probably not a good idea.

Required amplifier power depends on the sensitivity of the speaker (SPL), dispersion and desired listening volume. A 90dB 1W, 1m speaker will generate 90dB sound pressure at 1m using only 1Wpc.

If the listening point is 3m away, dispersion reduces the sound pressure by 9dB's to 81dB's ( still moderately loud ) using 1Wpc. If 102dB's is required 3m away, about 130Wpc would be required. This is pretty loud.

Like most domestic Hi Fi speakers, Bowers and Wilkins tend to be rated at about 90dB SPL. Unless you're listening quite far away from the speaker, or require very loud music, you should not need more than 150Wpc.

I don't think that it's for SPL that the larger B&W 800 series speakers need 'a lot' of power, but rather for the bass dynamics.

Here's what I can offer from my listening room:
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloud...5bw/index.html
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloud...302/index.html
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloud...vel/index.html

The 800 and 802 can be driven with a 50Wpc amplifier, per B&W. This will provide RMS SPL of 80dB and peak SPL of 95dB at about 4 meters.

Bass dynamics should be accommodated by peak power overhead of 15dB's. The minimum speaker impedance is about 3 ohms - compared to 8 ohms. This would be experienced with the woofer and represents a doubling in current which is roughly a four-fold increase in power, or 6dB.

The 800 can be driven with up to a 1kWpc amplifier, per B&W. This would support 4 meter RMS SPL of 93dB with peaks hitting 108dB. Alternatively, at 15 meters (such as in a small concert hall), 1kW would support RMS of 81dB and peaks of about 96dB. - 1kWpc at 15 meters is similar to 50Wpc at 4 meters.

Above 1kWpc, speaker cones probably would be damaged.

I may be out by a dB or three, but my point is that the required power level in a typical domestic environment, with speakers rated at about 90dB, is really much more modest than amplifier manufacturers might imply.