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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 662

post #19831 of 38737
8/21/09 at 10:09am
lol, fair enough. Ive flipped them all back and forth sooo manny times in a row now that they all just look exactly the same. I just gotta pick one and leave it.
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post #19832 of 38737
8/21/09 at 10:13am
Could anyone tell me if a new model is on the horizon for this player that will support media streaming over a network (WiFi or ethernet)?

This would be a great feature since this player supports MKV.
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post #19833 of 38737
8/21/09 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertazimmerman View Post

Oy vey!!

Thanks, Sharkshark. Yeah...I have absolutely no interest in Audessey processors. As long as I get lossless audio from my source, I don't really care what the pretty lights read. In fact, I usually turn off the displays on all of my equipment. As I mentioned in the past, I don't consider HT audio to be hi-end stuff, whether it's coming from an Integra 9.9, a Denon 5308 or an Arcam AVR600. I just want a simple solution that can accommodate my 980, an 83 and sundry other toys.

Time for one of those "Honey, can we talk for a moment....this won't take too long...." talks.

R

Haha..have fun with that. Just to throw in my two cents worth, Denon makes some amazingly capable receivers that are in the same price range as the switchers you've considered. Something like that would solve all these setup problems in one fell swoop.
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post #19834 of 38737
8/21/09 at 10:17am
^^^

since it was just released, it's unlikely there's a "new model" on the horizon any time soon...

the question of streaming has come up before... the answer was non-committal...
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post #19835 of 38737
8/21/09 at 10:25am
This is mostly intended to help Roberta, but may be useful to others. I have a Samsung BD-UP5000 that I need for HD-DVDs, plus my New Oppo BDP-83. My old Yamaha 5460 AVR only has analog 5.1 capability for one unit, but I need to input both analog sources. I bought a $30 mechanical component switcher at Walmart that can actually switch 4 different inputs (each with 6 channels) to one output. Works great! Sure, you have to get up to push a button, but you have to get up to load a disc anyway! It's not hi tech, but that's all you need unless you have a 7.1 system. Also Roberta, you may not even need your Oppo 980 for SACD. My 83 works fine - I have never heard ANY Rice Krispies sounds on my SACD or DVD-A discs.
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post #19836 of 38737
8/21/09 at 11:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertazimmerman View Post

Oy vey!!

Time for one of those "Honey, can we talk for a moment....this won't take too long...." talks.

R

What's wrong with this picture.. you have to justify new AV equipment with your husband?
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post #19837 of 38737
8/21/09 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yarrumc View Post

What's wrong with this picture.. you have to justify new AV equipment with your husband?

It's our money. I wouldn't want him buying an expensive item without first chatting about it.

R
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post #19838 of 38737
8/21/09 at 12:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by degroof View Post

Also Roberta, you may not even need your Oppo 980 for SACD. My 83 works fine - I have never heard ANY Rice Krispies sounds on my SACD or DVD-A discs.

I'm keeping the 980 in the loop because it can play MLP files from hard drives. If the 83 can one day handle MLP or FLAC files, I'll move the 980 elsewhere in the house.

R
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post #19839 of 38737
8/21/09 at 12:26pm
Never knew there was an HAF at all. Very interesting, though
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post #19840 of 38737
8/21/09 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertazimmerman View Post

It's our money. I wouldn't want him buying an expensive item without first chatting about it.

R

I meant this to be a joke, as most guys are AV freaks and I don't see it being a hard sell.. but yes, if you want to go the serious route, money is always an issue.
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post #19841 of 38737
8/21/09 at 12:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Never knew there was an HAF at all. Very interesting, though

The politically correct, gender neutral, alternative lifestyle inclusive term is SAF (spousal approval factor), but I have to admit, this is the first case of HAF that I've heard of.
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post #19842 of 38737
8/21/09 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertazimmerman View Post

It's our money. I wouldn't want him buying an expensive item without first chatting about it.

R

Or you could say "Honey, why don't we ...................................until the wee hours of the morning." And then chat about it!!!!!!

Voila!! Roberta get's her new piece of audio equipment.
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post #19843 of 38737
8/21/09 at 1:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

The choice between YCbCr 4:4:4 and YCbCr 4:2:2 (or even RGB Video Level for that matter) is often due to bugs in your display or AVR as to how they handle one or the other. Which means there's no one recommendation that will be best for everyone.

YCbCr 4:4:4 is the default data format for HDMI to HDMI connections and that's the one I recommend people start with. For most folks, this is just what you'll get if you use the Auto setting in the Oppo. Get familiar with how that looks (after your video levels are set properly -- the "Spears & Munsil" disc is your friend!) and only then start experimenting -- changing one thing at a time to see if you can get a better result.

For some tutorial info on what's going on with these different data formats, see this older post from another thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9445345

Note that this older write up was specific to 24 bit video (no "Deep Color"). 24-bit 4:4:4 has 8 bits each for the 3 components. 36-bit 4:4:4 has 12 bits each for the 3 components. In both cases, all 3 components are transmitted each "pixel time". 24 bit 4:2:2 has 12 bits each for the 3 components, only 2 of which are transmitted each "pixel time". Thus 24 bit 4:2:2 sends the same data quality as 36 bit 4:4:4, but at the expense of only sending color info half as often horizontally as gray scale info.

Also note that what the Oppo calls RGB Video Level is what the write up calls Studio RGB. What the Oppo calls RGB PC Level (which is almost never the right choice for home theater use) is what the write up calls Extended RGB.

Finally, keep in mind that the data actually coming off the disc -- whether SD-DVD or Blu-Ray -- is ONLY 8 BITS PER COMPONENT, and YCbCr 4:2:0 at that (see the write up), meaning color info is only recorded half as often both horizontally and vertically as gray scale info. So all this discussion of extra bits of output from the player has to do with image processing -- rounding bits derived from that original data recorded on the disc. So any image improvement resulting from the extra bits is going to be modest. It's not like you are throwing away a bunch of info from the disc if you only use 24 bit video from the player.
--Bob


bearing in mind that some of this is dependent on the specific capabilities or limitations of your own display, I was kinda trying to find out exactly what my own personal display was capable of itself, and I'm just wondering are the stats on the "digital chroma decoder" what I would be looking for in determining what my own set can display?
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post #19844 of 38737
8/21/09 at 1:52pm
I was reading Josh Zyber's weekly column which had some interesting things to say about deep color:

"There are some Blu-ray players that offer the ability to upsample the color channel to a higher bit-depth, which may slightly reduce the appearance of banding artifacts. If your plasma is Deep Color or x.v.Color compatible, it probably offers a similar feature internally anyway. You don't necessarily need to perform that action in the Blu-ray player. In any case, this is not likely to be offer a dramatic improvement in picture quality. Any change will be subtle."

Here's the link
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post #19845 of 38737
8/21/09 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Makaveli Tha Don View Post

bearing in mind that some of this is dependent on the specific capabilities or limitations of your own display, I was kinda trying to find out exactly what my own personal display was capable of itself, and I'm just wondering are the stats on the "digital chroma decoder" what I would be looking for in determining what my own set can display?

It would be pretty unusual for any manufacture published stats to discuss this stuff. They know it just confuses the heck out of folks, and anyway they'd rather have their customers jump to the conclusion the TV must do everything. Perfectly. That somewhere inside it is a little black box labeled, "Part No: 0112011023 -- A Miracle Occurs".

Last time I checked, it was pretty hard to find any definitive information on what goes on inside any of the popular displays. All you can be sure of is what the set accepts as input formats and what the result looks like on screen after proper calibration (and even that is subject to tester skill and various forms of bias).

Also please keep in mind that if there ARE bugs or poor design choices in your display, that they may only crop up with certain combos of input format and user setting choices. For example, you may find that some "picture mode" settings don't work well with certain input formats, even though there's no logical reason for them to be sensitive to the input format.

And if you like to use Source Direct from the player, keep in mind that some displays may have bugs that are peculiar to HDMI 480i input (as from SD-DVDs). For example, they may not properly convert SD color space to HD color space when fed YCbCr, but have no problem when fed RGB. Really, TVs (and AVRs) are pretty complex systems, and the marvel is that there are not MORE bugs in them. You just have to keep checking stuff until you are confident you know what works correctly in your particular hardware they way you, particularly, are trying to use it.

By the way, this is one of the reasons professional (ISF) calibration techs get the big bucks.
--Bob
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post #19846 of 38737
8/21/09 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

Roll-off, HP filter... sorry, screwed up the nomenclature.

I like the sound of direct better on my (fab) 9.8 without Audessy engaged, when playing through my Oppo BD-83. I'll just leave it at that...

Oh. I understand and that's why I have EQ'ed it flat with AudysseyPro.
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post #19847 of 38737
8/21/09 at 5:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightbox View Post

The politically correct, gender neutral, alternative lifestyle inclusive term is SAF (spousal approval factor), but I have to admit, this is the first case of HAF that I've heard of.

You're right, I never ask my husband. Oppo BDP-83 delivered today.

Thanks for the great explanation of color space. My "cable" box (actually it's Verizon FiOS) supports either RGB or YCC 4:4:4. On my prior display, it looked much better with RGB, the explanation being that it didn't clip the whites as much as YCC 4:4:4. With my new Samsung plasma (PN63B550), I can't tell the difference.

Now, I get the Oppo and I set it color space to Auto. My Samsung's color space is also set to Auto (vs. "Native"). I hope they negotiate whatever color space is "best". I have no way to know.

This Samsung will do 1080p/24 fps, so I set 1080p24 Output to "On", DVD 24p Conversion to "On". In a previous post, DVD 24p conversion is shown to be "Off". Is there any reason to leave it Off with my display?

My previous DVD player was a Denon 2200. This is my first HDMI up-converting player. I'm using optical digital / 6 analog outputs to feed a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver (Dolby 5.1 speaker configuration). Digital output set to "Bitstream", bit rate = 192 KHz, all OK.
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post #19848 of 38737
8/21/09 at 5:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avliner View Post

Never knew there was an HAF at all. Very interesting, though


You mean you never saw that Bogie movie:
"To Haf and Haf not?"
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post #19849 of 38737
8/21/09 at 6:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

This Samsung will do 1080p/24 fps, so I set 1080p24 Output to "On", DVD 24p Conversion to "On". In a previous post, DVD 24p conversion is shown to be "Off". Is there any reason to leave it Off with my display?

There's good reason to leave DVD/24 OFF with *ANY* display. There are quite a few DVDs out there that can not be converted cleanly to /24 due to the way they were prepped as /60 before being put on the disc.

So you should leave DVD/24 OFF by default. If you are playing a newer, high quality DVD movie, and have a display that accepts /24 as input and "does the right thing" with it, you can try DVD/24 with that disc. And if you don't see stuttering of the imaging then fine. But at the first sign of stuttering, go back in and turn DVD/24 back OFF for the balance of that DVD.

There are no such issues with Blu-Ray discs. You can use 1080p/24 Auto with confidence when playing Blu-Ray discs.
--Bob
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post #19850 of 38737
8/21/09 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hodges69 View Post

You mean you never saw that Bogie movie:
"To Haf and Haf not?"

You know the old saying, "Better SAF than sorry!"
--Bob
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post #19851 of 38737
8/21/09 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

You're right, I never ask my husband. Oppo BDP-83 delivered today.

Thanks for the great explanation of color space. My "cable" box (actually it's Verizon FiOS) supports either RGB or YCC 4:4:4. On my prior display, it looked much better with RGB, the explanation being that it didn't clip the whites as much as YCC 4:4:4. With my new Samsung plasma (PN63B550), I can't tell the difference.

Now, I get the Oppo and I set it color space to Auto. My Samsung's color space is also set to Auto (vs. "Native"). I hope they negotiate whatever color space is "best". I have no way to know.

This Samsung will do 1080p/24 fps, so I set 1080p24 Output to "On", DVD 24p Conversion to "On". In a previous post, DVD 24p conversion is shown to be "Off". Is there any reason to leave it Off with my display?

My previous DVD player was a Denon 2200. This is my first HDMI up-converting player. I'm using optical digital / 6 analog outputs to feed a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver (Dolby 5.1 speaker configuration). Digital output set to "Bitstream", bit rate = 192 KHz, all OK.

I would verify that your Samsung does a 5:5 pulldown and if not leave the 24p off. My Sammy LED DLP accepts 24fps but converts it back to 60hz. Sony and Pioneer do a real 5:5.
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post #19852 of 38737
8/21/09 at 6:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

There's good reason to leave DVD/24 OFF with *ANY* display. There are quite a few DVDs out there that can not be converted cleanly to /24 due to the way they were prepped as /60 before being put on the disc.

So you should leave DVD/24 OFF by default. If you are playing a newer, high quality DVD movie, and have a display that accepts /24 as input and "does the right thing" with it, you can try DVD/24 with that disc. And if you don't see stuttering of the imaging then fine. But at the first sign of stuttering, go back in and turn DVD/24 back OFF for the balance of that DVD.

You know such more about this than I, Bob; I've learned much from you for several yrs now.

Yet, I leave dvd/24 'on' by default, since most dvd's that I've played have done it very, very well; and it's really nice to see those silky smooth credits roll by! When it does fail (and I've had this only once), it's so obvious that you can't miss it; in my one case I thus just turned it off. So in my experience, it's been better to have it 'on' many more times that it was needed to have it 'off'.
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post #19853 of 38737
8/21/09 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill View Post

You know such more about this than I, Bob; I've learned much from you for several yrs now.

Yet, I leave dvd/24 'on' by default, since most dvd's that I've played have done it very, very well; and it's really nice to see those silky smooth credits roll by! When it does fail (and I've had this only once), it's so obvious that you can't miss it; in my one case I thus just turned it off. So in my experience, it's been better to have it 'on' many more times that it was needed to have it 'off'.

Apparently your taste in movies runs to SD-DVDs that have good transfers!

It's no big deal whether you leave it on or off by default, just so you know to turn it off at the first sign of trouble from any given SD-DVD.
--Bob
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post #19854 of 38737
8/21/09 at 7:09pm
Thanks all. My manual is as clear as mud. There's no spec on pulldown. The "Film Mode" is either "Off" for "basic video image processing applied and No auto-detection for film-based programs", or, "Auto" which "Automatically adjusts for the best image quality between film and video programs."

Sounds like I need to set my Sammy's Film Mode to "Auto", Oppo 1080p 24 Output "On", DVD/24 conversion "Off". Hopefully, the Sammy won't change anything that's 24 fps from the Oppo and handle anything else itself.

The "SAF" (Spouse Approval Factor) to stop and change modes in the middle of a DVD would be seriously close to zero.
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post #19855 of 38737
8/21/09 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeekGirl View Post

Thanks all. My manual is as clear as mud. There's no spec on pulldown. The "Film Mode" is either "Off" for "basic video image processing applied and No auto-detection for film-based programs", or, "Auto" which "Automatically adjusts for the best image quality between film and video programs."

Sounds like I need to set my Sammy's Film Mode to "Auto", Oppo 1080p 24 Output "On", DVD/24 conversion "Off". Hopefully, the Sammy won't change anything that's 24 fps from the Oppo and handle anything else itself.

The "HAF" to stop and change modes in the middle of a DVD would be seriously close to zero.

In your display, Film Mode should be left on Auto. The "OFF' mode is for some rare cases of shows that Auto mode doesn't handle properly. Odds are you will NEVER need it.

And all of that has do with how video gets "de-interlaced", so if you are sending 1080p from the Oppo to the display the film mode setting doesn't apply anyway since the Oppo has already done the de-interlacing for you. There's a similar setting in the Oppo which is "Auto" by factory default, and thats just what you want.
--Bob
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post #19856 of 38737
8/21/09 at 7:29pm
Thanks. I'll double-check everything. One concern I had was the S+M cal disc "Jaggies" clip showed stairsteps when the lines were rotating. Clean at horizontal and vertical. Would these adjustments change anything here, or is this an incredibly difficult test that needs additional processing / customization?

My Sammy doesn't is a "basic" model - it doesn't have any of the "Cinema Smooth" or extra processing of the higher-end models. This is the first day with the Oppo, I may be confusing some concepts here. I just need some time to do a LOT more reading.
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post #19857 of 38737
8/21/09 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Oh. I understand and that's why I have EQ'ed it flat with AudysseyPro.

...and that's why it's annoying I can't do that myself, without buying pro...

Anybody in Toronto with Pro that I can borrow for 10 minutes to make the change?

Roberta, hillarious you were watching Twister, of all things... There's an AVSer here (I won't 'out' him) who lives 150ft or so away from where the twister landed, and he's got one of these Oppos in his setup. So, for the record, the F2-class Tornado that hit Toronto last night avoided, to the best of our knowledge, the BD-83, and instead decided to destroy lesser homes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTxTWc0ShAg

Kudos, mother nature. Kudos.
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post #19858 of 38737
8/21/09 at 7:42pm
If the Oppo settings are correct (hint, Factory Default settings are your friend), and you are outputting a "p" (progressive = already de-interlaced) video resolution from the Oppo -- such as 1080p -- then the Spears & Munsil de-interlacing tests will look just fine. The Oppo is doing the job and your display needs to do no work.

If you are outputting 480i or 1080i from the Oppo, then your display is doing the de-interlacing, and may need to have its settings adjusted. Those tests check whichever device is doing the de-interlacing.

The point is, if you have the Oppo set to do the job, and your Oppo settings are correct, then the de-interlacing tests should look clean. If you see problems, then something is wrong in your setup.
--Bob
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post #19859 of 38737
8/21/09 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

So, for the record, the F2-class Tornado that hit Toronto last night avoided, to the best of our knowledge, the BD-83, and instead decided to destroy lesser homes.

Kudos, mother nature. Kudos.

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean this the way it came across, but I'd GLADLY allow my Oppo to be destroyed if it meant saving just one person's house from being demolished by a tornado. It would only cost $500 to get another one - even a much lesser home would cost a lot more than $500 to replace (and insurance can't replace everything)...
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post #19860 of 38737
8/21/09 at 9:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

Man, I can't believe Roberta you're still looking for reasons not to buy this player...!

As you are now, I think, the person who has been in this thread the longest without buying the damn thing already, I encourage you to do so...

Ummm... I'm not so sure about that. I've been waiting to buy this player since the first day it was released for Beta. But like Roberta, I too am waiting for all the SACD/DVD-A issues to be completely resolved.

My entire music collection consists of SACD/DVD-A disks so flawless playback is paramount. I too am currently using the 980 as my sole means of SACD/DVD-A playback. And until all the bugs are resolved with 983 I probably won't take the plunge.

Like several others in this forum I also have the Integra 9.8 as my processor so I have no doubt that I will most likely experience some of the same "Rice Krispies" problems that many others have experienced.

But, on top of all that I am in the middle of a major kitchen/dinning room remodel so the funds just aren't there to purchase the 983. But it has been on my must have list since day one.
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