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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 94

post #2791 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

So you weren't here when Warner announced they were going Blu-ray exclusively?

Yeah, I was, but pretty much ignored most of those threads/posts due to the overbearing emotional content. I take it those threads beat this one out by a long shot?

Wonder if this one sets a record for a hardware related thread?
post #2792 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Suggested or proved? There is a major difference between the two.

Shawn Fogg did the suggesting, based on the photos, and he says there are not enough data lines. He has a business modifying players to provide multichannel digital outputs and usually knows what he is talking about. Here is what he said: "The BD83 doesn't do this though, it always feeds PCM to the DACs. I know the original info about the BD83 said otherwise but they have changed this. If you look at the connections feeding the analog board there simply aren't enough data lines for DSD to be fed to the board."

Looking at the posted photo, on the board I think I see traces running to all of the DSD inputs of the multichannel DAC, but I can't trace them back to discrete input pins on the connector from the main board.
post #2793 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Alaska, Hawaii, and Canada are excluded, so are other countries (due to region differences).

Even if they had accidentally chose someone who was from Alaska, Hawaii, or Canada, the order would be waved because it is against their Terms and Conditions for the Early Adoption Program.

"Due to time and logistics limitations, the Early Adoption Program is open to customers within the 48 contiguous U.S. states. "

Ah well... was hoping they'd change their stance on who they'd send out units to. Luckily I have a fair amount of patience. I can hold out til the official release.
post #2794 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by k2_1971 View Post

Ah well... was hoping they'd change their stance on who they'd send out units to. Luckily I have a fair amount of patience. I can hold out til the official release.

Dude, ya live on the North Shore. Go outside!
post #2795 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Shawn Fogg did the suggesting, based on the photos, and he says there are not enough data lines.

Basing the suggestion on photos alone is not sufficient. My original post remains unaltered.
post #2796 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geof View Post

If they randomly select IP addresses it seems like it accomplishes the task - random locations and random participants.

No, selection is based off of your location on the Blu-ray Interest List. They may weed out incompatible applicants due to e-mail address, country code, IP address or other means before actually running the numbers through Random.org.
post #2797 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

No, selection is based off of your location on the Blu-ray Interest List. They may weed out incompatible applicants due to e-mail address, country code, IP address or other means before actually running the numbers through Random.org.

Location on the blu ray list was limited to country i believe:
http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-8...-Register.aspx
post #2798 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Basing the suggestion on photos alone is not sufficient. My original post remains unaltered.

Other of his posts may suggest he has hands on experience, too, and was suggesting to others to look at the connectors to confirm what he said.
post #2799 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Location on the blu ray list was limited to country i believe:

Yes it was, but that doesn't mean you had not lied. Hell, when I was younger, I would get into porn sites by stating I was 18 (when I was not).
post #2800 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Shawn Fogg did the suggesting, based on the photos, and he says there are not enough data lines. He has a business modifying players to provide multichannel digital outputs and usually knows what he is talking about. Here is what he said: "The BD83 doesn't do this though, it always feeds PCM to the DACs. I know the original info about the BD83 said otherwise but they have changed this. If you look at the connections feeding the analog board there simply aren't enough data lines for DSD to be fed to the board."

Looking at the posted photo, on the board I think I see traces running to all of the DSD inputs of the multichannel DAC, but I can't trace them back to discrete input pins on the connector from the main board.

So what does this mean? Will audio quality suffer?
post #2801 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Other of his posts may suggest he has hands on experience, too, and was suggesting to others to look at the connectors to confirm what he said.

Looking at photos and determining what it can and can't do is not verifiable proof. Unless he has tried to perform a mod, or used the player and can replicate a sequence which shows a DSD to PCM conversion has occurred over analog, there is no proof.

Until someone can direct proof bu using the actual product, there will be no alteration of the First Post.
post #2802 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

So what does this mean? Will audio quality suffer?

It would mean that the player always converts DSD to PCM over the analog outputs. That is, there is no native SACD DSD streaming over the analog outputs.
post #2803 of 39280
How is the remote?
post #2804 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Petrus View Post

Dude, ya live on the North Shore. Go outside!

I'm sunburned man... crispy. I am takin' a break! Heh
post #2805 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sasser204 View Post

How is the remote?

Fully backlit; well layed out. One of the best remotes I have seen bundled with a player.
post #2806 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTWMike View Post

From the manual's Audio Setup wizard section (PG-23):
If you connect the player to a receiver supporting HDMI 1.3 and high bit rate audio formats, selecting the Advanced setting is recommended. Menu click sound and Secondary Audio Program are turned off by default to preserve the original quality of the main audio content.

So it appears that if your setup meets the qualification's noted, you can defeat the menu click sounds.

MC

Nope. The disc over-rides those settings if you are using LPCM audio over HDMI.
post #2807 of 39280
Where can I find an image of the remote?
post #2808 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

I've noticed that since switching the player to HDMI-LPCM, I have been hearing a lot of the annoying menu button sounds. I expect this is a "benefit" too.

What nitwit decided that button sounds was a good idea? Hmmmm? Prolly the same one that chose BD-JAVA programming.

In defense of the button sounds, with how slow the first generation players were in response to button commands (both red and blue), button sounds were an absolute necessity to prevent machine lockups and unintended responses to multiple button pushes.
post #2809 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

It would mean that the player always converts DSD to PCM over the analog outputs. That is, there is no native SACD DSD streaming over the analog outputs.

Is this what is in dispute?
(From the BDP-83 manual)
DSD – SACD DSD data is output over HDMI without any conversion. For the analog audio
outputs, DSD data is converted into analog signal directly by the internal DAC. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI, or you prefer the sound quality of straight DSD to analog, please select this option.
post #2810 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by avsinkhole View Post

Is this what is in dispute?
(From the BDP-83 manual)
DSD - SACD DSD data is output over HDMI without any conversion. For the analog audio
outputs, DSD data is converted into analog signal directly by the internal DAC. If you use a receiver that supports HDMI v1.2a with DSD over HDMI, or you prefer the sound quality of straight DSD to analog, please select this option.

Yes, someone claims to have looked at the actual circuit board and determined that the manual is wrong as regards DSD -> Analog without any intermediate conversion to LPCM.

*reaches for tin-foil hat kept handy for just such occasions*

--Bob
post #2811 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Goff View Post

Shawn Fogg did the suggesting, based on the photos, and he says there are not enough data lines. He has a business modifying players to provide multichannel digital outputs and usually knows what he is talking about. Here is what he said: "The BD83 doesn't do this though, it always feeds PCM to the DACs. I know the original info about the BD83 said otherwise but they have changed this. If you look at the connections feeding the analog board there simply aren't enough data lines for DSD to be fed to the board."

Looking at the posted photo, on the board I think I see traces running to all of the DSD inputs of the multichannel DAC, but I can't trace them back to discrete input pins on the connector from the main board.

On the CS4382 for PCM Audio for 8 channels you have

Master Clock Pin 6
L/R Clock on pin 7
SDIN1 Pin 8 (PCM serial data for 2 channels)
SDIN2 Pin 11 (PCM serial data for 2 channels)
SDIN3 Pin 13 (PCM serial data for 2 channels)
SDIN4 Pin 4 (PCM serial data for 2 channels)
Bit Clock Pin 9


For DSD at the DAC you have
DSD-Serial Clock Pin 42
DSDA1 Pin3 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDB1 Pin2 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDA2 Pin1 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDB2 Pin48 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDA3 Pin47 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDB3 Pin46 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDA4 Pin45 (DSD serial data 1 channel)
DSDB4 Pin44 (DSD serial data 1 channel)

NOTE: The CS4382 does not share any pins between DSD and PCM input. It is 9 totally different pins into the DAC for 8 channels of DSD.

To control the CS4382 you also need two lines:

SCL Pin 15 serial control port clock
SDA Pin 16 Serial Control Data

Now look at the ribbon cable feeding the audio board.

+5v
DGND (Digital Ground)
SACLK (Master Clock)
S3CK (bit clock)
SLRCK (LR-Clock)
DGND (ground)
DATA0 (PCM Serial Data for 2 channels)
DATA1 (PCM Serial Data for 2 channels)
DATA2 (PCM Serial Data for 2 channels)
DATA3 (PCM Serial Data for 2 channels)
DGND (ground)
SDIN (PCM Serial Data for 2 channels, 2 channel downmix DAC)
DGND (ground)
SCL (Serial control port clock)
SDA (Serial control data)
DGND (ground)
DGND (ground)
DGND (ground)
DGND (ground)
RST (Reset)
????
DGND (ground)

Shawn
LL
post #2812 of 39280
BTW, anyone that wants to try and 'scope this... play a SACD (with HDMI set to DSD) and then look at pin 7 and Pin 42 on the CS4382.

If you see a clock on pin 7 the DAC is receiving PCM. If you see a clock on pin 42 it is receiving DSD.

If it is PCM the frequency of the clock on pin 7 is the sampling rate of the data being fed to the DAC.

Shawn
post #2813 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

So you weren't here when Warner announced they were going Blu-ray exclusively?


ah, good times... *sniff*
post #2814 of 39280
Well this should take us in some interesting directions no matter which way it turns out!

I wonder whether we'll be able to get a response from any of the EE's at Oppo over the weekend?
--Bob
post #2815 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Fully backlit; well layed out. One of the best remotes I have seen bundled with a player.

Agreed 100%. This is on par with the remote that ships with DVDO's Edge, which is excellent. I still use a Universal remote, but the BD83 remote is the best I've seen on a Blu-ray player, and I've reviewed a lot of them.
post #2816 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by sfogg View Post

On the CS4382 for PCM Audio for 8 channels you have...


for the record (and I know this is the subject of debate) such incredibly techy posts like this make me supremely happy... I mean, so much is just rambling back and forth, it's nice to see someone with far more Electronics experience than I show a way formally of testing assumptions rather than basing it on hunch (or a manual that's undergoing changes).

It's the upping-the-ante of the nerd level that I find amusing.

Neuro is of course right not to change the first post based on this theory, but it's undeniable that the evidence is compelling. Now, whether or not this is a deal breaker for some is certainly up for debate (being able to -hear- the difference would be up for grabs, certainly). Still, if there is an error/misreprentation, there's clearly enough from your post to at least verify with Oppo engineers just what's going on here...
post #2817 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Yes it was, but that doesn't mean you did not lied. Hell, when I was younger, I would get into porn sites by stating I was 18 (when I was not).

Without question, this is the best post in the entire thread!

post #2818 of 39280
yeah, worries me that Neuro had the internet when he was 18... man, I feel old... The worst thing I was doing at that age was lying in order to play Leisure Suit Larry....and that was by answering questions about the Beatles correctly!
post #2819 of 39280
Damm! I never knew that you could lie on the internet!
post #2820 of 39280
Finally, we get some pizazz to this thread. Bring it on!
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