Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 104

Originally Posted by joerod

If I had a ton of SD dvds and just a few Blu ray titles then I would have to pick the 09FD since it is still the best I have seen with SD dvd upconversion.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

Tom, be sure to check out the resources linked in the first post of this thread.

A lot of your questions have easy to find answers in the FAQ and the Manual for example.

But in brief, yes decoding to LPCM in the player works fine with the D2. As you know the D2 doesn't decode, and I didn't have a chance to do side by side between the D2 and the D2v. But using the D2v I find no difference between decoding in the Oppo and decoding in the D2v (given the latest D2v firmware which fixed a few crucial bugs).

The Oppo when set to Source Direct output will send HDMI 480i for SD-DVDs and 1080i/59.94 or 1080p/23.976 for Blu-Ray discs (according to the content on the disc). That's all automatic, and it all works just fine with the D2.

In addition the Oppo has a dedicated video resolution button on the remote which makes it trivially easy to switch from Source Direct to any explicit output resolution if you want to.

The choice of default audio track from any given disc is under the control of the studio. There is no way to change that behavior.

I have found no need to use a different setup for SD-DVD and Blu-Ray from the Oppo, so I have just the one input definition set up in the Anthem.

Yes the Oppo can output SACD audio as HDMI LPCM. That too works fine with the D2. Since DVD-Audio uses the same audio compression scheme as Dolby TrueHD, it too will decode to HDMI LPCM.
--Bob

Originally Posted by joerod

The company who should be most concerned is Denon and their new Money Monster player hitting soon.

If you are on the fence and have the Oppo-rtunity (I like that) to get one you should definitely try one out.

Originally Posted by gimp

Always decoding in the player is not the best solution. HDMI connections can introduce to LPCM signals high levels of jitter. However, compressed bitstreamed DD, DD+, TrueHD, DTS, DTS-HD, and SACD DSD are immune to jitter while in the bitstream state.

Originally Posted by joerod

The BDP-83 is going to be a strong force to deal with. The BDP-83 is a true Universal Blu ray player. The company who should be most concerned is Denon and their new Money Monster player hitting soon. If you think the differences are slight against the 2k players just wait and see how slight they could be against their $4500 (unless it has gone up since yesterday ) beast! At that price I consider the Pioneer 09FD a bargain! If you believe in pounds versus performance and aren't worried about saving extra coin for movies or another area that needs an upgrade then you could splurge for one of the big 3 or the new Denon Money Monster

Originally Posted by tngiloy

Thanks Bob (and wmcclain),
I had missed the faq's and didn't realize the manual was available. Oppo always does an exellent job of writing their manuals, and the bdp-83 manual answered most of my questions that you hadn't.
One thing does intrigue me though. In the 'lpcm rate' setting in the audio set-up section, if I understand it correctly, will I be able to send audio via hdmi at 96khz to my D2? I think that's the highest rate the D2 accepts. Did you try 96khz with the D2 or 128khz with the D2v? If so, what audio formats can you send at the higher rates (dolby-hd,dts-ma,sacd,dvd-a)?
Tom

Originally Posted by Robert Cook

While I understand how jitter can be a factor in various areas of the signal path, I don't see why LPCM would suffer more than compressed, bitstreamed encodings over HDMI specifically. Now, jitter in S/PDIF through either coaxial or TOSLINK I can definitely see, but since HDMI audio is transmitted intermittently during the video blanking intervals, then out of necessity it must be buffered in memory much like compressed audio, thereby eliminating the single greatest source of jitter, making LPCM over HDMI as "immune" to jitter as compressed audio (other sources of jitter farther down the path notwithstanding). Am I missing something here? I see no reason why the advice in the BDP-83 FAQ is in error.

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

I have some "audio only" Blu-Ray discs that are encoded at 7.1 DTS-HD MA 96KHz/24 bit. With the Oppo set to HDMI LPCM output these send 5.1 HDMI LPCM 96/24 to the D2 (the down mix is done in the Oppo) and 7.1 HDMI LPCM 96/24 to the D2v.

For example:

http://www.amazon.com/Vivaldi-Concer...7157105&sr=1-1

This disc is also interesting in that it crashes the PS3 at the end of playback whereas the Oppo correctly restarts play as intended.

By the way, the LPCM rate setting you found is only for the optical output. The HDMI output uses the lesser of the rate the track is encoded in and the highest rate the receiving device says it can handle during the HDMI handshake. You can not make the Oppo upsample HDMI LPCM to a higher rate than is on the track nor downsample to a lower rate than the receiving device's max allowed rate (if the track is also at least that high).
--Bob

Originally Posted by tngiloy

So is the 96/24 for 'audio only' BR discs?
Aren't BR movie audio tracks encoded at 96/24 or higher, or only at 48khz?
When I hit the select button on my D2 to toggle thru the different info, 48khz is the highest rate of audio input I've ever seen. I wasn't sure if that was due to a limitation in the disc, the BR player, hdmi or the D2.
Tom

Originally Posted by joerod

As many know I have had the Oppo since nearly day one last year. It has been a fun journey helping develop a player from start to finish. I would like to thank Oppo for allowing me the privilege to participate. I am going to post "my take" on my impressions of the BDP 83 unit. I will be as brief as possible and try to get right to the point. To save you from more suspense I will just come right out and say as of today's date the Oppo Blu ray player is the king of the $1000 and under market. It also comes very close to the Big 3 and quite honestly it is again like splitting hairs picking a player these days. I am being asked by many to finally post my thoughts and believe me when I say it is a very hard decision picking which player is the best. Actually, I can't pick which player is the best for everybody. What I can do is help assist in picking a player to best fit your needs and your budget. Let me get started...

What I really like about the Oppo...The menu is very simple. Picking options from color space selections to doing a firmware check is as easy as it gets. I also really like being able to pick a "deep" color bit (30 or 36) so that way you know you have it activated. No guessing or wondering. The effects of activating them though have been largely debated here at AVS. I am not looking to start another one but I will just say I like this feature being in the menu. I also really like the "tweak-ability" this player brings to the table. Just by checking out the manual you will see they have even included Detail and Edge enhancements. Those settings remind me exactly what I get from the Edge VP. Speaking of the menu I also like the vast amount of options there are for the audio side to. Being able to pick everything sure takes the wondering out of setting up a player. I wish other manufacturers would make it this easy. So how well do all these settings actually do with real world video and audio...?

I can say the Oppo Blu ray unit will not leave anyone out there disappointed. It is the real deal and will rival all the high end players that are on the market today. I will also say that with Oppo being able to achieve the performance they have at this price level the other companies will have to reconsider their pricing. The pic Q is excellent. And yes, 1080p/24 is on par with the other players. The audio is also impressive. I can say again (in case you missed my first paragraph) the Oppo BDP-83 is the absolute king of the under $1000 market. How does it compare to the Big 3?

In doing many comparisons with the Big 3 (Denon 3800, Sony S5000ES & Pioneer 09FD) the Oppo was very close. It rivaled them which to me alone is the biggest compliment I can give the Oppo Blu ray player. Especially when you consider the price differences! Is it better though? If money were no object which would I pick? I am taking that question and replacing it with a new absolute question... If I were on an island and I just happened to have a PJ, Pre/Pro, AMP, speakers and subwoofer- not to mention a bed sheet hanging between two palm trees (let alone electricity) which ONE player would I want? Well the Oppo sure does weigh less so it would be easier to carry around. Of course having dual HDMI outs (like the 09FD) does make a set up more flexible but I won't hold that against the Oppo. If I had a ton of SD dvds and just a few Blu ray titles then I would have to pick the 09FD since it is still the best I have seen with SD dvd upconversion. It is not a night and day difference though. Performance is close but the difference is noticable. For those who love my percentages -5.5% to 7.5%- better. I plan to post another mini take when the final firmware hits for the Oppo's main release. So it may not be fair at the current moment to pick one. Some could say the same against the Pioneer since for the general Public it currently does not decode DTS-HD Master. It soon will for everybody. I have purposely waited to post "my take" on the Oppo since with each new firmware it seems to improve even more. I am finally giving into the pressure of emails and PMs asking me to say something. So how about Blu ray performance? At 1080p/24 they are all very close. Just having to go back and forth a few scenes is a HUGE compliment to the Oppo against the 2k players. The biggest difference is depth of image (TheBland was right! ) but that does not make them night and day. I want everyone to understand that just because I may not pick the Oppo as my starter as of today does not mean I consider it any less a player. In fact it is quite the opposite. Actually for those keeping score in the load times stat the Oppo is the absolute king of all stand alones. Only slightly bested by the PS3. So if you are one of those inpatient folks then this may be the player for you. I meant it when I mentioned I would try and help people pick the best player for them either by needs or budget! As for audio, without getting in deep I will say it does a very good job. The build Q is not as stout as the 3800, S5000ES or 09FD but it is hard to hear the differences. Still though, with blind testing (ears included) the other units may have a slight advantage. Again though, it is like splitting hairs. The remote control is simple and lights up. The buttons are not to close or to small. It is a decent size and does not feel like it is going to fall apart in your hand...

Conclusion... So to sum up again my thoughts. The BDP-83 is going to be a strong force to deal with. Not only for sub 1k players but also for the Big 3. The BDP-83 is a true Universal Blu ray player. The only thing it doesn't seem to play is HD DVDs! The company who should be most concerned is Denon and their new Money Monster player hitting soon. If you think the differences are slight against the 2k players just wait and see how slight they could be against their $4500 (unless it has gone up since yesterday ) beast! At that price I consider the Pioneer 09FD a bargain! If you are on the fence and have the Oppo-rtunity (I like that) to get one you should definitely try one out. If you believe in pounds versus performance and aren't worried about saving extra coin for movies or another area that needs an upgrade then you could splurge for one of the big 3 or the new Denon Money Monster. Either way know this- The Oppo BDP-83 is a great player and deserves the hype.

What's next?
I am planning to do an extensive comparison bewteen the Oppo BDP-83CHT and the Big 3...

After that?
You may have guessed it. I will attempt to compare the Oppo, 09FD, S5000ES and new Denon! Just like before only now with a few new twists.

After that- after that?
Probably take a hiatus!!!

Originally Posted by prepress

Thank you for the preliminary review. I figured the Oppo would be up there. I guess that, having seen the 09, I should see the Oppo so I can judge whether the difference is worth it for me.

Originally Posted by CHAS ZOSS

Thank you I think!

Originally Posted by James W. Johnson

Thanks joerod.




I really gotta see an 09FD in action.

Originally Posted by Waboman

I'm not sure what Denon's reasoning is on their upcoming "money monster."



Great write-up, Joe. Thanks again for taking the time. I'm already looking forward to your next one.

Originally Posted by WestCoastD

thanks joe for your input! very good.............

I would emphasize that the new Denon DVD-A1UDCI should be more of a serious audiophile design. While the Oppo may stand close to the Denon in video performance (SD-DVD and BD) it may not yield as refined [analog] audio for CD, SACD/DVD-A and 5.1ch/7.1ch surround, especially when integrated into a more high-end system. The DVD-A1UDCI has 2ch balanced OUT's, AL32 (up-sampling), and more.

But, for the price, the BDP-83 sounds like it will function very well in most systems for, both, audio and video as a "universal" player.

Originally Posted by Stevetd

Excuse me if this has been asked but, this thread is moving at the speed of light and I don't have the luxury of time. Does the 83 output 2 channel analog at the same time as hi-rez over hdmi? This is a problem with the PS3 as I like to have another zone (deck) working at the same time as my HT.

Originally Posted by Styln

Here's a fact: your current 983 has SACD layer changing on the remote and the new 983 doesn't (yet). If you care about audio first and SACDs in particular, it's a deal killer. Obviously most peoples priorities for a BDP are different than mine. I know exactly what I want: SACD layer changing on the remote. Really no need for insults there little man.

Styln - Not your typical audiophile

Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau

I presume you have the Comcast, Oppo and receiver all connected via HDMI correct?


Leave the Oppo powered on and the Comcast powered off. Switch your receiver to the Comcast input and back to the Oppo. This forces a new HDMI handshake. Do you get a picture now from the Oppo?

If so then this is an HDMI handshake problem. Send the details to Oppo as suggested in the post above.

With the Oppo powered on are you seeing text or numbers in its Front Panel display? If not then you may have accidentally engaged "Pure Audio" mode which turns off the video output and the front panel. The Oppo remote has a "P" button on the upper left that toggles Pure mode.


Leave the receiver on the Oppo input. Power cycle the Oppo. Do you get a picture now? If not then check your HDMI cables (both ends) to make sure they haven't come loose in the socket perhaps due to the weight of the cable. It only takes a little shift to break the connection.
--Bob

Originally Posted by progprog

Do any B&M dealers carry Oppo so we can actually go see them (eventually)? They seem to do a lot of direct and internet sales, but I've never seen an Oppo in a store.....

Originally Posted by joerod

Your welcome, I think!

Originally Posted by x43x

Hey Joerod, if you don't already have one, you should really have a website with all of your home theater reviews. A simple blogspot page would work, so you could even keep people updated on what equipment you're demoing at the moment.

Originally Posted by Styln

Here's a fact: your current 983 has SACD layer changing on the remote and the new 983 doesn't (yet). If you care about audio first and SACDs in particular, it's a deal killer. Obviously most peoples priorities for a BDP are different than mine. I know exactly what I want: SACD layer changing on the remote.

Originally Posted by Neuromancer

This is why I am saying it is "not an issue". Your player is not working properly if it is taking 9 minutes to load The Dark Knight. Either your player is defective, or your internet connection is too low to properly send all the information back and forth between the server and the BDP-83.

I have tested The Dark Knight on multiple connections, and all of them have resolved the Warner Brothers logo after 2 minutes and 38 seconds. If it is loading longer than this, then your internet connection is either very lossy, or something is not set correctly through your firewall/router.

Try making the BDP-83 the DMZ host and try again.

Originally Posted by Robert Cook

While I understand how jitter can be a factor in various areas of the signal path, I don't see why LPCM would suffer more than compressed, bitstreamed encodings over HDMI specifically. Now, jitter in S/PDIF through either coaxial or TOSLINK I can definitely see, but since HDMI audio is transmitted intermittently during the video blanking intervals, then out of necessity it must be buffered in memory much like compressed audio, thereby eliminating the single greatest source of jitter, making LPCM over HDMI as "immune" to jitter as compressed audio (other sources of jitter farther down the path notwithstanding). Am I missing something here? I see no reason why the advice in the BDP-83 FAQ is in error.

Originally Posted by gimp

Your assertion is incorrect, as is that in the FAQ. HDMI is widely known to add jitter to LPCM signals, and this has been measured. This is why Denon is introducing DENON LINK 4th Edition in the upcoming DVD-A1UDCI and why Pioneer introduced the Precision Quartz Lock System (PQLS). To understand what you are missing, read Advanced topics in HD audio. It provides an excellent explanation by an eminent source.

Originally Posted by svphile

My hope is the 83's analog output stage wasn't an afterthought. I have no doubt it can decode fine (any decent player should). I hope it's analog output stage doesn't fall into the category of budget. I highly doubt it will. Don't get frantic on me guys. Oppo isn't in the budget buiness when it comes to quality, but how much can they put into $500. They have to cut corners someplace, ie dedicated power supplies, independant clocks, etc...

I'm sure the 83's analog will sound better than the 55k but will that be good enough?

Originally Posted by x43x

Hey Joerod, if you don't already have one, you should really have a website with all of your home theater reviews

Originally Posted by shamus

Sorry, just thinking of some options that I was curious about before I made a purchase. It appears to be worthless for improving AV. I also like the fact that the Oppo manual is pretty honest about any improvement with "deep color".

Is it too late to get into the 300 pool?