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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1042

post #31231 of 38730
5/5/10 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

dpoirier -- If your display is only HDMI 1.2/1.2a compatable, you may not have lip-sync capability. You need HDMI 1.3 and up for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

Great post Claus! Either I've never known that, or I just forgot, but it sure could be an eplanation for a lot of things discussed tonight.

[sorry about the tardy response]
Except that the A/V synchronization supported by 1.3 almost certainly isn't doing what you think. It's simply an option for a sink device to send a typical delay value to a source that can adjust for that delay. If there are multiple sources of delay or if the delay is atypical or if the delay is in the disc itself 1.3 won't help even if all the bits support the option.
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post #31232 of 38730
5/5/10 at 10:32am
A general observation about lip-sync from someone who has to check for it and correct it from time to time for my job: Once you start obsessing about lip-sync errors, you tend to see them everywhere, even when they don't actually exist.

And realistically, it has to be off by a good chunk for a human who's not paying attention to really notice it.

Just try not to think about it (easier to do if you select good movies to watch ) and you might find the problem goes away by itself.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth. I have already donned my asbestos long-johns ......
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post #31233 of 38730
5/5/10 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Yes rd.
I am not 100% convinced that there is absolutely no difference in regard to where DSD is decoded, as DSD sounds slightly but distinctly better decoded in my Denon 2809 compared to sending PCM from the Oppo. I myself do not have the technical knowledge base, but Denon tech support stated they recommend sending DSD from the Oppo to the Denon for this very reason. Of course they are not always correct in their advice, either. And, there are a lot of variables to control in such listening tests (I may be making an error in set up despite trying to control for listening levels, etc). So you may be right on that issue, but in any case the OP will be able to enjoy the great Oppo SQ of PCM off SACDs with Audyssey nonetheless.

We know there is a big difference in volume when DSD is decoded by the player vs. in the processor. I also prefer allowing my Integra DTC 80.1 to do the decoding. It sounds slightly better to me based on a few quick listens, although it is difficult to match levels exactly and that may play a role. Onkyo/Integra recommends transmitting PCM from the player, incidentally.
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post #31234 of 38730
5/5/10 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundofMind View Post

Well, again I am the limits of my knowledge but Audyssey has verified that it is not their issue, their portion of the chip treats everything you throw at it the same way.

Except high-res LPCM, which most applications of Audyssey cannot handle. The most common limitation is 24/96. Obviously an AVR should not allow that to happen, but if you fed the DSP chip some high-res PCM that it could not handle, gobbledygook might be the result. If you fed it DSD, the result might be hash. Any AVR that feeds the DSP chip something it can't handle would be considered buggy.

FWIW, the Yamaha models all convert any digital input (DSD included) to 24/192 for DSP. So they handle high-res inputs very nicely.
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post #31235 of 38730
5/5/10 at 12:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

FWIW, the Yamaha models all convert any digital input (DSD included) to 24/192 for DSP. So they handle high-res inputs very nicely.

I think the Yamaha specs are misleading, except maybe for the RX-Z11 which has four DSPs. Most models can only do basic stuff at 96kHz (like EQ and PLIIx), and they downsample to 48kHz if you turn on the fancy DSP processing (which I never use any way). So I'm pretty sure I'm listening to DSD converted to PCM at 96kHz with my Yamaha RX-V1800.
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post #31236 of 38730
5/5/10 at 12:38pm
Our 2809 Denons will do 7.1 at 24/192, so that is not a factor in that model, however, I am not sure what the limitations are to the OP's 2808. There was probably a processor update between model years.
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post #31237 of 38730
5/5/10 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Our 2809 Denons will do 7.1 at 24/192, so that is not a factor in that model, however, I am not sure what the limitations are to the OP's 2808. There was probably a processor update between model years.

My Denon 3808 has always handled decoding of DCD at 24/192 and has never had an update since purchase (Feb 2008).

I don't think it is a Denon spec issue. Mine has always done it with no issue. Also they know it is going to be feed this info because of the Denon Link.

Ta

Dono
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post #31238 of 38730
5/5/10 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

I think the Yamaha specs are misleading, except maybe for the RX-Z11 which has four DSPs. Most models can only do basic stuff at 96kHz (like EQ and PLIIx), and they downsample to 48kHz if you turn on the fancy DSP processing (which I never use any way). So I'm pretty sure I'm listening to DSD converted to PCM at 96kHz with my Yamaha RX-V1800.

This is incorrect. It's been a while since the Yamaha white paper was posted around here, but all inputs are converted to 24/192 except M-ch analog. It's been that way for several model years.
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post #31239 of 38730
5/5/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badas View Post

My Denon 3808 has always handled decoding of DCD at 24/192....

Maybe you read too fast...we were referring to the 2808. I just downloaded the 2808 manual, and it also can decode 7.1 24/192, so any LPCM the OP wants to throw at it will work. Still don't understand the decoding problem for DSD input though.
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post #31240 of 38730
5/5/10 at 3:22pm
Thread Starter 
Release date: May 5, 2010.
Category: Latest Official Release

Main Version: BDP83-50-0424
Loader Version: BE2710 or BT0410
Sub Version: MCU83-27-0326

1. Traditional splash screen. When there is no disc playing, the player shows the OPPO background screen instead of the "Home Menu". The "Home Menu" can be accessed by pressing the "Home" button on the remote control.

2. Improvement to MKV compatibility. Some MKV files do not play or play with severe video artifacts when using previous firmware. This version improves the playback of such files.

3. Fix for the SACD pops/crackles issue. Some users have reported hearing pops or crackles between SACD tracks. This issue happens to certain discs that have data frames that are not aligned with track boundaries. This version removes such pops or crackles.

4. Revision of the RS-232 control protocol. If the player is equipped with the RS-232 wired control option, the new protocol adds three verbose modes to enable command echo back, automatic status update and automatic program counter update. For a complete list of RS-232 protocols please refer to the OPPO BDP-83 RS-232 Control Protocol V2 document.

5. Improved volume control function for the analog audio output. Volume control was previously implemented using the DSP (Digital Signal Processor). This version utilizes the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) chips to perform volume control. This change brings the following benefits:
* Fix for the subwoofer hum that happens when the player's volume is set to less than 100 while outputting SACD in DSD format over HDMI;
* Volume control in DSD mode for SACD. Previously volume control does not work for DSD mode. With this version, all analog audio outputs of the BDP-83SE and the dedicated stereo output of the BDP-83 can apply volume control in DSD mode.

6. Fix for a compatibility issue with Sherwood Newcastle R774 A/V receiver. The issue was no audio signal over HDMI when playing a CD.

7. Other general disc compatibility improvement based on recent and upcoming Blu-ray releases as well as user-submitted disc samples.

8. Minor changes to BD-Live and BD-Java behavior. Erasing the persistent storage from the setup menu now erases both downloaded BD-Live contents and Java-based bookmarks. BD-Live access is set to off after resetting factory default settings. If you prefer to have BD-Live access, please turn it on from the setup menu.
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post #31241 of 38730
5/5/10 at 3:38pm
^^^ Be there or be square!
--Bob
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post #31242 of 38730
5/5/10 at 3:49pm
do we need to factory reset after this update?
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post #31243 of 38730
5/5/10 at 3:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post

do we need to factory reset after this update?

Yes.
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post #31244 of 38730
5/5/10 at 3:53pm
^^^Yes. See the installation instructions here:

http://oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-8...e-50-0424.aspx

Note also that depending on what firmware you currently have installed, you may need to repeat the install process more than once to get all three pieces installed. Just rinse and repeat until your 3 version numbers match the ones shown in that link.
--Bob
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post #31245 of 38730
5/5/10 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Maybe you read too fast...we were referring to the 2808. I just downloaded the 2808 manual, and it also can decode 7.1 24/192, so any LPCM the OP wants to throw at it will work. Still don't understand the decoding problem for DSD input though.

My point was, My Amp is an older model than yours and mine can do it. So your 2809 should also.

Ta

Dono
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post #31246 of 38730
5/5/10 at 4:25pm
Official BDP83-50-0424 Firmware Released
Release date: May 5, 2010.
Category: Latest Official Release

Yay! I had been holding off in installing beta firmware updates, hoping for an official release. Now we have it! Given the time to get things right, this one should keep me for a while; perhaps it will be my last.

Kevin
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post #31247 of 38730
5/5/10 at 4:35pm
bodosom -- Thanks for the clarification.

narkspud -- I've noticed small lip-sync delays on some TV programs. I noticed that if I ignored it, it went away. As soon as I thought about it, it came back. It's a mind trick.
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post #31248 of 38730
5/5/10 at 4:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin McCarthy View Post

Official BDP83-50-0424 Firmware Released
Release date: May 5, 2010.
Category: Latest Official Release

Yay! I had been holding off in installing beta firmware updates, hoping for an official release. Now we have it! Given the time to get things right, this one should keep me for a while; perhaps it will be my last.

Kevin

The way Blu-Ray works, you should NEVER think of any given firmware release as the last you'll ever need to install.

Bugs aside, the studios are still experimenting with what they want to do with this format. In addition, new encryption license keys are distributed via firmware updates. So if you don't update, you will, sooner or later, find new discs that just won't play.
--Bob
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post #31249 of 38730
5/5/10 at 4:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

Except high-res LPCM, which most applications of Audyssey cannot handle. The most common limitation is 24/96. Obviously an AVR should not allow that to happen, but if you fed the DSP chip some high-res PCM that it could not handle, gobbledygook might be the result. If you fed it DSD, the result might be hash. Any AVR that feeds the DSP chip something it can't handle would be considered buggy.

FWIW, the Yamaha models all convert any digital input (DSD included) to 24/192 for DSP. So they handle high-res inputs very nicely.

I upgraded from an Integra 9.8, which was limited to 96K with Audyssey, to an 80.1 prepro which handles 192K with full Audyssey support.
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post #31250 of 38730
5/5/10 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Release date: May 5, 2010.
Category: Latest Official Release

Main Version: BDP83-50-0424
Loader Version: BE2710 or BT0410
Sub Version: MCU83-27-0326

1. Traditional splash screen. When there is no disc playing, the player shows the OPPO background screen instead of the "Home Menu". The "Home Menu" can be accessed by pressing the "Home" button on the remote control.

2. Improvement to MKV compatibility. Some MKV files do not play or play with severe video artifacts when using previous firmware. This version improves the playback of such files.

3. Fix for the SACD pops/crackles issue. Some users have reported hearing pops or crackles between SACD tracks. This issue happens to certain discs that have data frames that are not aligned with track boundaries. This version removes such pops or crackles.

4. Revision of the RS-232 control protocol. If the player is equipped with the RS-232 wired control option, the new protocol adds three verbose modes to enable command echo back, automatic status update and automatic program counter update. For a complete list of RS-232 protocols please refer to the OPPO BDP-83 RS-232 Control Protocol V2 document.

5. Improved volume control function for the analog audio output. Volume control was previously implemented using the DSP (Digital Signal Processor). This version utilizes the DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) chips to perform volume control. This change brings the following benefits:
* Fix for the subwoofer hum that happens when the player's volume is set to less than 100 while outputting SACD in DSD format over HDMI;
* Volume control in DSD mode for SACD. Previously volume control does not work for DSD mode. With this version, all analog audio outputs of the BDP-83SE and the dedicated stereo output of the BDP-83 can apply volume control in DSD mode.

6. Fix for a compatibility issue with Sherwood Newcastle R774 A/V receiver. The issue was no audio signal over HDMI when playing a CD.

7. Other general disc compatibility improvement based on recent and upcoming Blu-ray releases as well as user-submitted disc samples.

8. Minor changes to BD-Live and BD-Java behavior. Erasing the persistent storage from the setup menu now erases both downloaded BD-Live contents and Java-based bookmarks. BD-Live access is set to off after resetting factory default settings. If you prefer to have BD-Live access, please turn it on from the setup menu.

Very nice
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post #31251 of 38730
5/5/10 at 6:03pm
SOM

Denon CS has suggested that the 2808 simply cannot process DSD and apply Audyssey due to processor limitations (unlike the 2809 and other higher models), which I think unlikely, but apparently there are no 988/2808 Oppo owners on the threads here to confirm.

Did you contact Denon regarding this issue? Is the statement above what they told you? I sent Denon CS a detailed description of my problem and have not heard back from them yet. If sounds like from your post that Denon does not believe that DSD and Audyssey will work together on the 2808. At least I will know that there is not a problem with my receiver and if I want this feature I will just have to get another higher model Denon. Thanks for checking.
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post #31252 of 38730
5/5/10 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcarnut View Post

SOM

Denon CS has suggested that the 2808 simply cannot process DSD and apply Audyssey due to processor limitations (unlike the 2809 and other higher models), which I think unlikely, but apparently there are no 988/2808 Oppo owners on the threads here to confirm.

Did you contact Denon regarding this issue? Is the statement above what they told you? I sent Denon CS a detailed description of my problem and have not heard back from them yet. If sounds like from your post that Denon does not believe that DSD and Audyssey will work together on the 2808. At least I will know that there is not a problem with my receiver and if I want this feature I will just have to get another higher model Denon. Thanks for checking.

I had suspected that. There are other AVRs with similar limitations.
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post #31253 of 38730
5/5/10 at 6:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnc View Post

Thank you...I should rec'v replacement tmrw according to my acct...I'll chk and disable bd live and dump memory storage. Bummer if that was/is the case. I loaded/played Sherlock Holmes with no problem...weird to me. I don't do the interactive stuff...just watch movies. Btw...is there a way to chk the storage capacity and empty it from time to time...just how does this work...? everytime a br is loaded/played there is some info stored on the 83? Thanks again.

Well...I just don't get it. Doctor Parnassus film...same issue with this br. It will load, play a gazillion previews, and get to film top menu it says on front of 83 display...that's it. The music/theme loops but neither my harmony nor the 83 remote will command it to play or do setup...nothing. I can skip through while previews are being shown and pause them etc...but when it gets to menu...poop. All other discs have played properly. It gives me the red circle with slash thru it as to say bad command or not allowable. Weird as hell and annoying. Honestly dislike issues with anything but this is a pisser. Any ideas.
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post #31254 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnc View Post

Well...I just don't get it. Doctor Parnassus film...same issue with this br. It will load, play a gazillion previews, and get to film top menu it says on front of 83 display...that's it. The music/theme loops but neither my harmony nor the 83 remote will command it to play or do setup...nothing. All other discs have played properly. It gives me the red circle with slash thru it as to say bad command or not allowable. Weird as hell. Any ideas.

I played that retail disc a few days ago with no problem.
Try updating to today's latest firmware update and see if maybe that fixes it.
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post #31255 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

... It's been a while since the Yamaha white paper was posted around here, but all inputs are converted to 24/192 except M-ch analog. It's been that way for several model years.

We should continue this in a Yamaha thread or via PM, as I'd like to get the facts straight. But there were some actual measurements of an RX-V1800 showing that two channel analog input is digitized at 96kHz and processed at either 96 or 48kHz depending on the selected DSP mode (here and several followup posts).

Some receivers just refuse to allow certain types of processing if the input rate is too high, while others let you select anything but quietly downsample if they have to. It's not always easy to find out what's really happening.
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post #31256 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnc View Post

Well...I just don't get it. Doctor Parnassus film...same issue with this br. It will load, play a gazillion previews, and get to film top menu it says on front of 83 display...that's it. The music/theme loops but neither my harmony nor the 83 remote will command it to play or do setup...nothing. I can skip through while previews are being shown and pause them etc...but when it gets to menu...poop. All other discs have played properly. It gives me the red circle with slash thru it as to say bad command or not allowable. Weird as hell and annoying. Honestly dislike issues with anything but this is a pisser. Any ideas.

It is possible you have a defective copy of that disc. It happens.

You should try today's firmware update, but if that doesn't fix it for you, consider that the disc itself might be defective. Some defects, e.g., scratches, are visible, but others are not. Often you can get a replacement disc either from the store or from the studio.

(Imaginarium of Dr. Parnussus, Blu-Ray plays fine on my 83 with today's (0424) firmware.)
--Bob
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post #31257 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcarnut View Post

SOM

Denon CS has suggested that the 2808 simply cannot process DSD and apply Audyssey due to processor limitations (unlike the 2809 and other higher models), which I think unlikely, but apparently there are no 988/2808 Oppo owners on the threads here to confirm.

Did you contact Denon regarding this issue? Is the statement above what they told you? I sent Denon CS a detailed description of my problem and have not heard back from them yet.

NOooo. I was quoting your post here from the 2808 thread in which I thought you were reporting Denon CS's response. Sorry, apparently I misunderstood. Have you done the reset yet?
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post #31258 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnc View Post

...but neither my harmony nor the 83 remote will command it to play or do setup...nothing....

Are you hitting 'play' on the remotes? You may want to hit 'ok' on the navigation set to get it to accept the command. I found this is true in the Universal stuff.
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post #31259 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:56pm
I have successfully downloaded and installed several previous firmware upgrades. I just did this for the May 05 release, and my 8 GB flash drive has nothing on it but the UPG folder with the five files, but this time, the player doesn't automatically recognize the firmware upgrade, and several attempts (including both the front and back panel USB connectors, the remote SETUP/Firmware Upgrade, and power cycling with the USB drive in place failed to start the process. When I used the Setup menu, it indicated that it had failed to find the firmware upgrade. Is the fact that my flash drive is NTFS the problem? Does it need to be FAT32?

Kevin
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post #31260 of 38730
5/5/10 at 7:58pm
Yep... needs to be FAT16 / FAT32
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