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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 126

post #3751 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by TapOrSnap View Post

This maybe a stupid question but here it goes...

Set-up one:
A cheap DVD Player and a cheap Blu-ray player with the video run though a DVDO Edge and audio run though a good AV receiver that's capable of decoding all the new audio formats.

Set-up two:
The BDP-83 hooked up to an average AV receiver.

Would you notice any difference in picture quality or audio quality between the two different set-ups? Both are using the ABT chip and both are capable of decoded the newest audio?

There are other ways a cheap SD-DVD player can screw things up than just scaling.

For example, most cheap SD-DVD players are incapable of HDMI 480i output, which means you have to suffer through their poor implementation of de-interlacing of the SD-DVD content. There are also common ways for a cheap SD-DVD player to screw up the image decoding before the Edge (in your hypothetical) gets its hands on it. And once damaged you can't fix it. All you can do is blur things to conceal it.

Cheap Blu-Ray players, on the other hand, are likely to be slow performers and to have problems playing new discs as they come out.

You need to get the core functionality right in both the DVD and Blu-Ray side of things. You can certainly do that with separate players, but generally that doesn't go with "cheap".
--Bob
post #3752 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Neuro won't be able to answer this question now due to the NDA. Allow me to unofficially answer for Neuro. Oppo have announced the DVD-A feature for the second EAP round, which will ship towards the end of the week or Monday because they're busy updating the firmware on the units prior to shipping.

Of course the beta testers have been running the DVD-Audio firmware for some time now. Oppo's not going to just release it into the wild without proper beta testing.

The assumptions made by the forum are quite interesting to us testers....
post #3753 of 39282
If you're looking for a "cheap," yet reliable Blu-ray player, I would go with one of the new models for Panasonic...if they provide the same performance as the BD35/55, you will be happy.

If you want a better overall experience with DVD, BD, and the ability to play SACDs and soon DVD-A discs, then the Oppo is the only choice. It's also much "faster" than the Panasonic's, unless they've been sped up a lot with this years models (I haven't tested them yet.)
post #3754 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

I respectfully request that all talk about Blu-ray Interest List and Early Adoption Program numbers be dropped. All we have heard from OPPO is that their Blu-ray Interest List has some 25,000 entries. Any additional numbers talked about are completely speculation, FUD, and inconsequential to the intended purpose of this thread.

This is an Owner's Thread. We are here to talk about the Hardware and Software of the OPPO Digital BDP-83.

post #3755 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Vaughn View Post

If you're looking for a "cheap," yet reliable Blu-ray player, I would go with one of the new models for Panasonic...if they provide the same performance as the BD35/55, you will be happy.

If you want a better overall experience with DVD, BD, and the ability to play SACDs and soon DVD-A discs, then the Oppo is the only choice. It's also much "faster" than the Panasonic's, unless they've been sped up a lot with this years models (I haven't tested them yet.)

The reason for my question is that a friend of mine has basically set-up number one. I was telling him about the OPPO BDP-83 and he didn't think it would make any difference (because of the DVDO Edge and his new Denon receiver).

As for me I ordered the BDP-83 on Monday.
post #3756 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by TapOrSnap View Post

This maybe a stupid question but here it goes...

Set-up one:
A cheap DVD Player and a cheap Blu-ray player with the video run though a DVDO Edge and audio run though a good AV receiver that's capable of decoding all the new audio formats.

Set-up two:
The BDP-83 hooked up to an average AV receiver.

Would you notice any difference in picture quality or audio quality between the two different set-ups? Both are using the ABT chip and both are capable of decoding the newest audio?

Your hypothetical set-ups lack some specifics on details. For instance, what are the capabilities of the cheap DVD player. Here's my take with relative grading.

Set-up 1:
PQ = B to A (assuming output is 480i on HDMI to DVDO Edge and relative to quality of 480i output)
SQ = B (note: AVR capable of decoding all the new audio formats does not make it good)

Set-up 2:
PQ = A (BDP-83 HDMI directly to HDTV or if going to AVR, bypassing all video processing)
SQ = C (even if the audio on the BDP-83 is good, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link, i.e. the AVR is average = the audio will be average)

Hope it helps...
post #3757 of 39282
+1
post #3758 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Spackman View Post

The assumptions made by the forum are quite interesting to us testers....

I'm sure they are Jon.
But, you beta testers are the ones in the know and the ones having the most fun as well as the last laugh.
post #3759 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by sremick View Post

I wasn't referring to the sell price of the PS3. I was referring to how much it actually costs: http://www.isuppli.com/NewsDetail.aspx?ID=19842

Hence my qualifying it that Sony sells it at a loss. OPPO cannot sell its products at a loss.

So how well do you think a +$100 price increase and a 2-3 month delay w/ the BDP-83 would go over to cover development and testing for a non-core feature that'd only be used by a small subset of customers?

Who said anything about a delay???? I'm surprised by the resistance to streaming and I am well aware of the economics of the PS3 and writing firmware. I... and I assume the others asking for streaming aren't expecting it at launch. I'm simply saying it would be nice if it is something Oppo could consider in the future. Shot I'd even pay extra for a firmware upgrade with DLNA support.

(Damn the whole reason I posted about streaming is because I assumed Oppo monitors this thread to some degree and uses it for feedback and now I blew it by telling them to charge me extra for streaming.) Oh yea I'd like native flac support too
post #3760 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

A quick note about Network streaming: You have to make the player much more aware of other video and audio containers before this feature is actually useful.

In the current state of the BDP-83, the only advantage to network streaming would be for the playback of files which exceed the FAT16/32 file system limitation of 3.96GB. In this case, DivX/XviD-HD and some MKV files.

Yes, it would be advantageous to be able to playback your entire MP3 collection, but in the current state it is just as easy to load a thumbdrive or external HDD.

I hate to disagree with the man BUT... The first issue is relatively easy to overcome with transcoding at the server. And I beg to differ that a thumb drive is anywhere near as easy to use as a network streamer once setup...just ask my wife.

Lets see go to my big ole server full of ripped music try to pick a couple of albums drag and drop to a thumb drive... plug thumb drive into player scan the albums and listen decide that instead of Sgt Pepper I really wanted Abbey Road damn start at step one again.

With a server my entire library is there and I can jump around to my hearts content without ever getting out of my seat.
post #3761 of 39282
Per Neuro's comment:
"In the current state of the BDP-83, the only advantage to network streaming would be for the playback of files which exceed the FAT16/32 file system limitation of 3.96GB. In this case, DivX/XviD-HD and some MKV files."

I understand the file size limit via USB port. I asked awhile back if the 83 could play >4GB MKV files recorded on DVD. I may have missed it, but I didn't see a definitive answer. Has anybody tried this?
post #3762 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I hate to disagree with the man BUT... With a server my entire library is there and I can jump around to my hearts content without ever getting out of my seat.

Ditto. I'd like (NAS) access to my whole library (ripped music & movies).
post #3763 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendo70433 View Post

Operon, where did you get your numbers? From what I have read in this fire hose of a thread, the second EAP had a pool of 25000.

I like the 2350 better.

Let's call us AVS thread members the red team and all others the white team. For the first EAP, there were ~500 AVS members on the previous thread. There were 50 samples and 31 AVS winners. So, the question goes something like this: If one was to put 500 red balls into a larger population of white balls and randomly withdraw 50 balls (without replacement), what are the odds that 31 red ones would be chosen? This is what's called in the bizz a hypergeometric distribution. Princess Aurora kindly provided the equation in post 3441. So, if we vary the total population and look for for the probability maximum, we get these numbers I posted. What say you of the 25,000 number previously quoted here? Let's say that using a total population of a mere 7,000 and picking 300 balls and getting 66 red ones amounts to over a one in a quadrillion chance of getting this outcome. Picking 66 out of a population 25,000 means that you'll be running this sampling experiment over and over and over again for a long, long, long time to get this outcome; the probability approaches zero.

Now, I did make several assumptions.
1) All AVS thread members signed up for the EAP; a reasonable assumption.
2) For the second EAP though the AVS team lost 31 members since they were chosen, I assumed that another 31 or so joined the new thread. So, I kept this number at 500. (Neuromancer has the actual number of people subscribed to this thread.)

Regardless, the numbers aren't going to change much as the probability rapidly falls away from the maximum as the total population increases in size.

What I suspect is that the OPPO people said or was heard to say twenty-five thousand or some similar sounding figure when the actual number was more like twenty-five hundred, 2,500.
post #3764 of 39282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I hate to disagree with the man BUT...

My statements were not meant to be all inclusive "this is all network support is good for". I am merely saying that the inclusion of network support should take a back seat due to the current limitations of the player's design.

OPPO should first and foremost get the core disc performance of their player beyond industry standard before they deal with adding any of the "Feature Requests". This includes my persistent request for APE and FLAC support.
post #3765 of 39282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by M6450 View Post

I understand the file size limit via USB port. I asked awhile back if the 83 could play >4GB MKV files recorded on DVD. I may have missed it, but I didn't see a definitive answer. Has anybody tried this?

You can do UDF, but UDF is still restricted to the same 3.96GB individual file size limitation.

For most users their encodes should fall well below this limitation. However, it is not uncommon to come across encodes which are individually 6GB or more in size.
post #3766 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Operon View Post

What I suspect is that the OPPO people said or was heard to say twenty-five thousand or some similar sounding figure when the actual number was more like twenty-five hundred, 2,500.

Reminder: We are here to talk about the Hardware and Software of the OPPO Digital BDP-83.
post #3767 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

My statements were not meant to be all inclusive "this is all network support is good for". I am merely saying that the inclusion of network support should take back seat do to the current limitations of the player's design.

OPPO should first and foremost get the core disc performance of their player beyond industry standard before they deal with adding any of the "Feature Requests". This includes my persistent request for APE and FLAC support.

Agreed...

A back seat would be fine--it would be nice, though, to see ethernet streaming on the Feature Request list.
post #3768 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

With a server my entire library is there and I can jump around to my hearts content without ever getting out of my seat.

I don't know about other folks, but I always have a large external HDD that I use to back up all of my data, including my CD music collection (which happens to be encoded in high-bitrate MP3). So at least for me, accommodating the BDP-83 will be a simple matter of connecting this HDD to it (might as well get some real use out of a device previously used just for backup). Does anybody else maintain backups, or am I some kind of anachronistic freak?
post #3769 of 39282
Per Neuro:"You can do UDF, but UDF is still restricted to the same 3.96GB individual file size limitation."

I'm pretty sure that UDF 2.50 can exceed the 3.96GB limitation. Will the 83 read a file >4GB DVD written in UDF 2.5?
post #3770 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

My statements were not meant to be all inclusive "this is all network support is good for". I am merely saying that the inclusion of network support should take back seat do to the current limitations of the player's design.

OPPO should first and foremost get the core disc performance of their player beyond industry standard before they deal with adding any of the "Feature Requests". This includes my persistent request for APE and FLAC support.

Agreed... and I think I made in clear earlier these wishlist items should take a backseat to any current functions. I'm right there with you on the FLAC support brother.
post #3771 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

I don't know about other folks, but I always have a large external HDD that I use to back up all of my data, including my CD music collection (which happens to be encoded in high-bitrate mp3). So at least for me, accommodating the BDP-83 will be a simple matter of connecting this HDD to it (might as well get some real use out of a device previously used just for backup). Does anybody else maintain backups, or am I some kind of anachronistic freak?

It would have to be formatted FAT or FAT32.

Adding at least NTFS would be much appreciated by many.

-Bill
post #3772 of 39282
+1 on NTFS
post #3773 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

I don't know about other folks, but I always have a large external HDD that I use to back up all of my data, including my CD music collection (which happens to be encoded in high-bitrate mp3). So at least for me, accommodating the BDP-83 will be a simple matter of connecting this HDD to it (might as well get some real use out of a device previously used just for backup). Does anybody else maintain backups, or am I some kind of anachronistic freak?

I do in fact have backups but in my world they are no longer backups if they are connected and online. I agree though that is a viable solution, unfortunately I rip to FLAC and MP3 but have no desire to have the MP3s on the Oppo system since I encode those at a relatively low VBR.

I read Bill's excellent FAQ and I know it has been discussed earlier but am I correct in that none of the supported audio media formats are lossless?
post #3774 of 39282
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by elementBike View Post

A back seat would be fine--it would be nice, though, to see ethernet streaming on the Feature Request list.

Refresh the first post. I added it earlier this afternoon.
post #3775 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

Refresh the first post. I added it earlier this afternoon.

Wow...

Thanks!
post #3776 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by obie_fl View Post

I do in fact have backups but in my world they are no longer backups if they are connected and online. I agree though that is a viable solution, unfortunately I rip to FLAC and MP3 but have no desire to have the MP3s on the Oppo system since I encode those at a relatively low VBR.

I read Bill's excellent FAQ and I know it has been discussed earlier but am I correct in that none of the supported audio media formats are lossless?

These are the only audio codecs I've discovered so far: What are the supported media file audio codecs?

Quote:

* AC3 (Dolby Digital)
* DTS (Digital Theater System)
* LPCM (Linear pulse code modulation)
* MP2 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer II)
* MP3 (MPEG-1 Audio Layer 3)
* WMA (Windows Media Audio) (not WMA PRO)

LPCM is lossless but not compressed (right?)

-Bill
post #3777 of 39282
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

It would have to be formatted FAT or FAT32.

Good point. In my case, the HDD came from the factory with a FAT32 format, and I left it that way specifically for potential compatibility reasons. That's also the reason I used the MP3 format. It's funny how I used to ultra-optimize absolutely everything years ago, got sick of dealing with compatibility and interoperability issues, and then went ultra-conservative with everything, but I digress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Adding at least NTFS would be much appreciated by many.

That would be nice, too. I'm sure that OPPO would have their own ideas, but how would most of us prioritize the media player features being discussed of late? I would place support for the FLAC, APE, and WAV formats first, followed by network file/streaming support, followed by additional lossy audio formats and common video formats, followed by NTFS support. Supporting ripped DVD images just as though they were actual DVDs would be nice, but probably too much to ask for (I'm surprised that there is support for VOB files at all).
post #3778 of 39282
For those feeling left out, there is indeed still hope as some percentage of people have definitely been declining their EAP invites - I just received an invite a few minutes ago. Though I've indicated that I will want the RS232 option (for my home theater system), I've decided that I'm going to purchase a 2nd BDP-83 for my office system which will have no use for the RS232 option. So the first one will go into my home theater system until I'm able to purchase one with the RS232 option. In the very unlikely event that I'm not satisfied with the sound quality of the analog outputs, I'll return the EAP player (or investigate sending it back to have the RS232 option added) but given the feedback so far, I'd be shocked if that happens.
post #3779 of 39282
Have none of the six bugs listed on page one been fixed yet?
post #3780 of 39282
Guys, check your e-mails because I just turned down paticipation in EAP 2, so one of you may be the lucky fill in. I will probably be purchasing an official release version, I just wasn't ready to purchase at this time. Below is Oppo's response to my email, turning down their invite. Vincent,
We have updated your entry to show that you will not be accepting the Early Adoption Program invitation. We will e-mail the next randomly selected candidate.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
2629B Terminal Blvd.
Mountain View, CA 94043
Service@oppodigital.com
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
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