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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1280

post #38371 of 39280
Grrrrr! Again, I have to say, HD-DVD would N-O-T have had this problem/error/cheap-@$$ed-buttheads-causing-us-to-buy-a-new-player-every-4-years thang!!!mad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gif
post #38372 of 39280
I talked to Oppo support today, and they are aware of the issue, and have replicated at their end. They are not sure whether it is an issue that can be fixed by firmware, or if Disney's discs are defective. He said they sent them out
for compatibility testing.

I am running a BDP-83 Bitstreamed to a Denon 3808. Everything has the latest firmware, and all other disc play fine. In fact, I only had the issue with the Brave short on the Brave disc, and the Matter shorts on the Pixar Shorts 2 disc.


Mark
post #38373 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubavs View Post

bguzman: would you please post your 83 and 707 settings/connections?
OK here we go.

Onkyo set to DD PLIIx, resolution set to through. Confirmed in OSD




Oppo set as below, bitsream, second audio off.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

The skinny is something like this: Dolby has several tiers to their encodings, and Brave, Finding Nemo, Total Recall, among others, are using the most recent tier. I'm going to call it "Dolby Digital 5" because I can't remember the technical name. The issue is that the platform that the BDP-8x of players use only support up to what I will call "Dolby Digital 4". The player's firmware will need to be upgraded to support "Dolby Digital 5". The kicker here is that due to the age of the decoder it is possible that the changes will not be made. MediaTek would need to be involved to enabled this newer Dolby Digital as this is a front-end decoder issue, and not a top level firmware issue.

Watched this a forth time before this post and I have no dropouts.
post #38374 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

You have to remember that any changes to the specifications also allows for compatibility with older standards. Just like how Dolby Digital TrueHD has a Dolby Digital Core for older digital equipment, "Dolby Digital 5" has information which allows older decoders to handle the audio. What becomes an issue is that the player can't send "Dolby Digital 5" as a Bit Stream because it is not being told to go legacy ("Dolby Digital 4") so it attempts to send a signal which is not compatible for. When the player is doing the decoding it knows to use the "Dolby Digital 4" decoding. This is why Bit Stream and LPCM have different results.
So in all reports I have seen switching to LPCM will resolve these errors. The errors only exist when the player is trying to Bit Stream the signal to your receiver.

I don't believe it's that.

To me it seems to be a possible buffering issue. The dropouts don't seem to be repeatable (experience a dropout, go back, no dropout).

The bitrate of these new encodings are huge, Brave peaks over 10Mbps for the 7.1 TrueHD track.
post #38375 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

I don't believe it's that.
To me it seems to be a possible buffering issue. The dropouts don't seem to be repeatable (experience a dropout, go back, no dropout).
The bitrate of these new encodings are huge, Brave peaks over 10Mbps for the 7.1 TrueHD track.

But is the encoded bitrate higher than the LPCM?

The purpose of encoding is to make it smaller confused.gif
post #38376 of 39280
Re: Brave dropouts

I'm also running a BDP-83 bitstreaming to a Denon 3808. I'm certain the BDP-83 has the latest firmware, and I'm fairly sure the Denon does as well. I've watched Brave twice using the 7.1 audio track. Both times, I got two dropouts, one late in the movie and one during the credits. Backing up and replaying did not show the dropout again. Haven't yet tried LPCM. Guess I need to try that, but it seems apparent that just watching a short section will not show if the problem has been eliminated or not, so I'll have to wait until I have time to see the entire movie again to verify if that helps in my setup. Hopefully this is fixable with an update. I would like a 103 (which I've heard is better for DVD than the 93 since I watch a fair amount of foreign DVD/BD), but I don't really need to spend an extra $500 just now, and to be honest, the 83 meets my needs at the present time.
post #38377 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbii View Post

Re: Brave dropouts
I would like a 103 (which I've heard is better for DVD than the 93 since I watch a fair amount of foreign DVD/BD), but I don't really need to spend an extra $500 just now, and to be honest, the 83 meets my needs at the present time.

I have an 83 and a 103. For me, I like the 83 better for dvd playback over the 103. I think the ABT chip does a much better job than the Qdeo. But that's just me. smile.gif
post #38378 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by bguzman View Post

I have watched Brave and Nemo a few times and have not had any dropouts. I have an 83 bitsreaming to an Onkyo SR707. I think it has a lot more to do with the AVRs than the players.

Watched Brave last night on my 83SE Nuforce in TrueHD 7.1 bitstreamed to my Onkyo TX NR5008 with no noticable issues. I think if it's hardware compatibility issues causing people problems then it's high time manufacurers of hardware and software put their heads together before the problems snowball out of control, costing them and us serious money. With new formats now appearing on a regular basis I don't fancy being a test dummy for companies for the forseeable future. A prime example is the new Oppo 105 and lip-sinking/streaming issues. No doubt with Oppos rep Firmware updates will come thick and fast, but it doesn't help if customers want to buy early and come to expect issues. Saying that, would I move away from Oppo? NOT A CHANCE!! The most versatile and value for money machines available in the marketplace today IMHO.
post #38379 of 39280
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTHX View Post

I don't believe it's that.

You don't have to believe me, but you should.
post #38380 of 39280
^ I'm pretty sure Peter is coming from the place of: if it's not supposed to work at all, then how comes it works 99.99% of the time (or better, say a couple instantaneous dropouts over the movie). Not that he needs me to speak for him, but I think this would be an obvious response...

I have no opinion, yet (my Brave's been in the mail for ages). I will be using a *premium* HDMI cable that costs several times the cost of the new 83. I would never buy such a cable smile.gif, but I will happily use them. JIC...for the "test".
post #38381 of 39280
Thread Starter 
if it was a buffering issue the errors would occur at the same interval every time. They do not.

If it was an incompatibility issue, the audio should produce dropouts at the same locations (they do not) or be universal to all receivers (they are not).

The player is "smart enough" to decode it internally without any problems but "dumb enough" to cause bit streaming errors. It is entirely a software issue that either needs to be addressed during the authoring or addressed in the firmware of the player.
post #38382 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by badboi View Post

I have an 83 and a 103. For me, I like the 83 better for dvd playback over the 103. I think the ABT chip does a much better job than the Qdeo. But that's just me. smile.gif
That's what I was afraid of. I guess I'll be keeping my 83 until it is completely non-serviceable. As I come across them, I replace most of my non-anamorphic DVDs as I can, but the 83 makes even those watchable, let alone stuff with other video standards that gave all my pre-ABT players fits. (I also have a 983 with ABT that I plan to keep as well.)
post #38383 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubavs View Post

Grrrrr! Again, I have to say, HD-DVD would N-O-T have had this problem/error/cheap-@$$ed-buttheads-causing-us-to-buy-a-new-player-every-4-years thang!!!mad.gifmad.gifmad.gifmad.gif

You don't really know that for sure though. Besides, that format had it's own problems as well, so all wasn't as peachy as a lot would like us to believe.

Pretty sure Disney and a few other studios are doing something different the past few months that is the cause of this problem. Like I've said, I have many TrueHD discs (both 5.1 and 7.1) and none of them have given me issues.
post #38384 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by badboi View Post

Pretty sure Disney and a few other studios are doing something different the past few months that is the cause of this problem. Like I've said, I have many TrueHD discs (both 5.1 and 7.1) and none of them have given me issues.

........Yea like concentrating on implementing Cinavia instead of focusing on what really matters. Pay attention studios!!.............rolleyes.gif
post #38385 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

if it was a buffering issue the errors would occur at the same interval every time. They do not.
If it was an incompatibility issue, the audio should produce dropouts at the same locations (they do not) or be universal to all receivers (they are not).
The player is "smart enough" to decode it internally without any problems but "dumb enough" to cause bit streaming errors. It is entirely a software issue that either needs to be addressed during the authoring or addressed in the firmware of the player.

Sounds reasonable. I was not supporting the idea that it's a buffer issue, since I have no clue, just questioning the idea of the bitstreaming incapability when it does seem "capable" to a large extent. However, I do not think buffering would necessarily always happen at the same movie time, but I don't know what algorithm they might use. Does Brave use that sorta copy protection scheme where it jumps all over the disc during playback? Can audio dropout be correlated with the jumps (if they exist)? Guess you'd need to have a BD player in your PC and some S/W to tell that, after noting dropout times with the 83. I say this because a "dumb" old player (not my beloved 83??) might be incapable of properly buffering the next sequential movie portion in advance, and there might be a little audio dropout after the "jump", in association with a slow AVR. My Denon AVR is very slow IMO in syncing with some changes in the HDMI audio stream, especially does not like interruptions, not so fussy with video changes.

BTW my (2D) Brave copy arrived since last post lol.

Edit: I do have a 93 too, but I will test Brave in the main video system with the 83 (it's there for its IMO superior ABT DVD capability, whereas the 93 is a tad better in the music system).
Edited by cfraser - 12/6/12 at 3:02pm
post #38386 of 39280
Happy with my purchase thus far. I've really put the 103 through it's paces over the last 2 weeks. I use it for CDs/SACDs/DVD-As and DVDs/Blu-Rays - incl. 3D. I much prefer the DACs in my Marantz AV7005. The only bummer with it is it does not decode DSD. For this I have to use the OPPO and send out the signal as PCM. I am however disappointed that OPPO down-samples DSD. Not sure why they do this, but maybe it's because Sony will not allow them to send out 176.4kHZ? That said, it still sounds pretty damn good. Might be ~10% less than my dedicated old Sony ES Transport, but I needed to eliminate some components in my system. No complaints on the video performance. I run it thru the Marantz (video pass-thru mode) to my Panny 65" VT30 Plasma. The signal might be better running it directly to the TV, but I haven't played around with audio over 1 HDMI and video over the other enough to figure how it works. The only time I tried, I wasn't able to get any audio at all. So I will just live with it for now since it looks awesome anyway. And as others have said, this thing is built rock-solid. I've never owned a transport that would load blu-rays so fast. It brings a smile to my face every time I load a new blu-ray smile.gif
post #38387 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Olson View Post

The only bummer with it is it does not decode DSD. For this I have to use the OPPO and send out the signal as PCM. I am however disappointed that OPPO down-samples DSD. Not sure why they do this, but maybe it's because Sony will not allow them to send out 176.4kHZ?

This is a mis-application of the term "downsample". 24/88 is a perfectly legitimate sample rate for converted DSD. There's actually no real evidence to support the idea that 176 is better, and may be credible evidence that its worse. Not really a topic for this thread though, it's discussed ad nauseum in many places. In any case its not downsampling, its a conversion.
post #38388 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

This is a mis-application of the term "downsample". 24/88 is a perfectly legitimate sample rate for converted DSD. There's actually no real evidence to support the idea that 176 is better, and may be credible evidence that its worse. Not really a topic for this thread though, it's discussed ad nauseum in many places. In any case its not downsampling, its a conversion.

Fair enough, rd. It's still a disappointment to me. And sorry for posting the above in the wrong thread! I guess it was out of habit. haha

EDIT: Could you point me to these credible articles about 88.2 vs 176.4? You can PM me please. Thank you.
Edited by Cliff Olson - 12/6/12 at 3:00pm
post #38389 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbii View Post

Re: Brave dropouts
I'm also running a BDP-83 bitstreaming to a Denon 3808. I'm certain the BDP-83 has the latest firmware, and I'm fairly sure the Denon does as well. I've watched Brave twice using the 7.1 audio track. Both times, I got two dropouts, one late in the movie and one during the credits.

Same BDP and AVR, bitstreamed TrueHD 7.1 track, 1m Audioquest something-or-other HDMI cable to AVR: no dropouts. Just got the BD so have only played it once. The only audio anomaly I noticed is apparently some distortion that started just after the dedication to Steve Jobs, it was in the higher frequencies and not in all channels, repeatable and was there at any volume level, didn't last that long but wasn't really short either.

Kudos to Disney for making such a quality disc that loads so very quickly, and has fast easy access to the menu. I know it's to be kid-friendly, but works for me too!

Edit: The other week I forgot to thank the guy who suggested lubing the loader tray rails in response to my query about my loader sometimes not wanting to stay open. Seems to have done the job. I thought it might be something more complicated due to the circumstances, which I really didn't explain. It also used to make a tiny shuddery noise when opening (didn't seem like much to me...) and now sounds quiet and slides smoothly. I did first clean off what appeared to be clumped up dried OEM lube on the tray rails, probably with a bit of dust mixed in, only really visible from the inside. Used a very light silicone grease.
Edited by cfraser - 12/7/12 at 9:54am
post #38390 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by putox1051 View Post

Just a quick thank you to whoever posted the lens cleaning procedure awhile back. I've been getting "unknown disc", "wrong disc" messages lately, so I tried the "reset" procedure (didn't help), & finally resorted to disassembly & lens cleaning, which saved my 83 from a 2nd trip back to OPPO.


Does anyone know where this cleaning procedure is posted in this thread? I searched for "cleaning procedure" but could not locate it.

Many thanks!
post #38391 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Does anyone know where this cleaning procedure is posted in this thread? I searched for "cleaning procedure" but could not locate it.
Many thanks!

Try this one: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1124287/official-oppo-bdp-83-owners-thread-technical-talk-only/37890#post_22183378
post #38392 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvp2005fan View Post

Mine did exactly the same thing. When I first power up and press the eject button on the unit, the tray doesn't open, but the "open" turns to "loading" then "no disc". Pressing the eject does nothing. I have to power cycle then maybe if I'm lucky it'll open up.
Contacted oppo tech support and got the standard message about resetting everything, but unfortunately no joy. They will service it out of warranty for $97.
How common is this: I wonder.
Perhaps I should just get the new 103.

Wow! Oppo emailed me and just told me to send in my 83 and they'd fix it since the problem was with the loader. Back in my hands in about a week--works like a charm. No charge for the repair!.

What a GREAT company--make mine OPPO! biggrin.gif
post #38393 of 39280
^ I just had an email "conversation" with OPPO service. Boy, they sure respond quickly... Anyway, I have been having continual loading/stuttering issues with some BDs (only) during the last 3 weeks. Cleaned both lenses (I thought...) about 2 weeks ago. No issues cleared. Today I did it again (99% isopropyl) with a bit more effort (I was perhaps too gentle before), and also cleaned the top/bottom hubs very well. My 83 is essentially pristine inside/outside even though I use it very heavily. All the problem BDs are now working properly. If at first you don't succeed etc... BTW it sounded as though OPPO was going to send me parts or something, but now I don't need them (yet?).
post #38394 of 39280
Maybe someone can help. I am the original owner of a BDP-83. Well I was using it last night flawless, today I wanted to watch a movie and the door would not open. The screen says open and the door appears to try to open but it does nothing. I hit the button again and it opens but then does not close. Does anyone know how I could close the door so I can box the unit and send it out for service?? Also I am out of warranty is it even worth fixing??

Thanks
post #38395 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

Maybe someone can help. I am the original owner of a BDP-83. Well I was using it last night flawless, today I wanted to watch a movie and the door would not open. The screen says open and the door appears to try to open but it does nothing. I hit the button again and it opens but then does not close. Does anyone know how I could close the door so I can box the unit and send it out for service?? Also I am out of warranty is it even worth fixing??

Thanks

Send OPPO tech support an email (they are likely monitoring email over the weekend) or call them tomorrow and they'll explain what to do.

And yes, it is worth getting the unit repaired. Unlikely many manufacturers, OPPO does not make disposable players.
--Bob
post #38396 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Pariseau View Post

Send OPPO tech support an email (they are likely monitoring email over the weekend) or call them tomorrow and they'll explain what to do.
And yes, it is worth getting the unit repaired. Unlikely many manufacturers, OPPO does not make disposable players.
--Bob

Thanks Bob, I already emailed them. I would like to box up the unit but the door is stuck open. To me it is worth repair, I love the Oppo gear I also own a 93. I just hope the cost to repair is not ridiculous.
post #38397 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

Thanks Bob, I already emailed them. I would like to box up the unit but the door is stuck open. To me it is worth repair, I love the Oppo gear I also own a 93. I just hope the cost to repair is not ridiculous.

Assuming they charge you at all, any out of warranty repair is a flat rate fee of around $60-70 plus shipping. Just contact them for an RMA.
post #38398 of 39280
I'm getting better standard DVD rendering to my JVC RS15 front projector from my PS3 rather than the Oppo 83, is this to be expected?
post #38399 of 39280
^ Absolutely not. Something is wrong in your setup for use of the OPPO into that display.
--Bob
post #38400 of 39280
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluvette View Post

Thanks Bob, I already emailed them. I would like to box up the unit but the door is stuck open. To me it is worth repair, I love the Oppo gear I also own a 93. I just hope the cost to repair is not ridiculous.

With your 83 off, try pressing the eject button on the unit (not the remote). This should power up the unit and will likely return the disk tray as well. If not, unplug the 83, turn it over so it is resting on it's top (upside down). Plug it back in and press the eject button on the unit. If the tray still does not return I would try to firmly but carefully push the tray back in manually. Good Luck!
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