or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only]
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 1299

post #38941 of 39277
^ Thanks, I thought so. My Sony, which is newer than the Oppo and just got another firmware update, also sputters on Monsters U. Switched to PCM and all was well, as usual.

I don't know why this issue always seems to go unmentioned in the professional Blu-ray reviews.
Edited by AVfile - 11/2/13 at 9:27pm
post #38942 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

The 3D on the Oppo 83 is terrible, because the player doesn't support 3D at all smile.gif

Know what you mean biggrin.gif but strictly speaking the oppo bdp83 is capable of playing back a 3d disc derived from a frame packed one - as other 2d players can too smile.gif Requires the right conversion program though cool.gif

Gives a nice option if your happy with your 83 and have a 3d tv/projector .
post #38943 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by AVfile View Post

Have audio dropouts been reported yet with Monsters U? Bitstreaming TrueHD 7.1 of course.

same here...eek.gif
post #38944 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

same here...eek.gif

And did you try LPCM? Did that not help?

-Bill
post #38945 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

same here...eek.gif

I thought audio dropouts with TrueHD on this player were a known bug.
post #38946 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by drvais View Post

I thought audio dropouts with TrueHD on this player were a known bug.

No. There have been some troublesome discs, but otherwise no general problem that I recall.

-Bill
post #38947 of 39277
Thread Starter 
Dropouts with Bit Stream and Seamless Branching titles is a known issue, but this is not a problem with LPCM.
post #38948 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

No. There have been some troublesome discs, but otherwise no general problem that I recall.

-Bill
Why it's Oppo-83 and 93 having these problems with Monster U,But im going try it on other player and see what happens.
post #38949 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Why it's Oppo-83 and 93 having these problems with Monster U,But im going try it on other player and see what happens.

The problems are widely reported with other players. Some may show it and others not, but I recall that with BRAVE even Sony's players with having trouble with a Sony disc.

-Bill
post #38950 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The problems are widely reported with other players. Some may show it and others not, but I recall that with BRAVE even Sony's players with having trouble with a Sony disc.

-Bill
Well Bill it's sound like it's the disc,don't be surprise if they have recall on Monster U.
post #38951 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Well Bill it's sound like it's the disc,don't be surprise if they have recall on Monster U.

I doubt it. There were early reports of a replacement for TOTAL RECALL (which had some different problem) but finally the studio just told everyone to use LPCM. I don't think there were even rumors of a BRAVE recall.

-Bill
post #38952 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

Well Bill it's sound like it's the disc,don't be surprise if they have recall on Monster U.

The studios are too infatuated with their bizarre schemes for trying to foil disc copiers. Which is what's going on here. Breaking up the playlist into hundreds of tiny files has no earthly purpose EXCEPT to make life more difficult for disc copying software.

The studios really don't care that this ALSO make's for playback problems for folks who've purchased/rented "real" commercial discs. Their piracy fears trump customer satisfaction every time.

As is, since they can tell people to use LPCM output as a workaround they feel their work here is done.

Of course you could always choose not to buy/rent discs from such studios, but that would just raise their paranoia that they are losing business to piracy even more -- which means they'll try the NEXT, hair brained, anti-copying scheme that comes along, which will in all likelihood be even more bizarre.

And so it goes.
--Bob
post #38953 of 39277
Again, this is where the Blu-ray reviewers fail us. Stop giving 5 star reviews for audio when there are dropouts!

Using PCM is just a workaround, as stated, until the day comes when even the player can't decode it.
post #38954 of 39277
^^ I've seen discs with this "fancy footwork" authoring inducing dropouts in TrueHD bitstreams. Are there parallel examples with DTS-HD caused by this? Do both types of discs require player decoding to work?
post #38955 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

^^ I've seen discs with this "fancy footwork" authoring inducing dropouts in TrueHD bitstreams. Are there parallel examples with DTS-HD caused by this? Do both types of discs require player decoding to work?

The recent famous examples all seem to be Dolby. DTS: I'm not sure.

-Bill
post #38956 of 39277
Thanks, Bill.

Is this "copy protection" scheme that of a single studio? Other than the glitching audio, is there a way to find out if discs use this technique (I guess short of ripping the files)?

I want to find such "scatter" discs that use DTS-HD to see if any have reported issues.
post #38957 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Thanks, Bill.

Is this "copy protection" scheme that of a single studio? Other than the glitching audio, is there a way to find out if discs use this technique (I guess short of ripping the files)?

I want to find such "scatter" discs that use DTS-HD to see if any have reported issues.

We're not even sure it's a copy protection issue, or just some workflow in the authoring department that never got tested properly.

I tend to forget these problems as they recede in the past. BRAVE and MONSTERS UNIVERSITY are both Disney and had a similar structure of many M2TS files which seemed to cause problems at (some of?) the transitions.

TOTAL RECALL (2012) is Sony but I think it had some other issue with the audio encoding. The solution was the same: switch to LPCM in the player and avoid some mysterious interaction with the AVR when bitstreaming. Even Sony players had troubles with this Sony disc.

All this is really hard to diagnose as an outsider. People report "works for me" without saying if they are using Bitstream or LPCM. Or if they are connected directly to a TV or soundbar, which will always be LPCM regardless of the player setting. Or what version of the title they have: a lot of titles come out in variant editions which are sometimes not very visible to the consumer.

-Bill
post #38958 of 39277
PS. If you are researching this, you might look at the discussion groups of the ripping programs. They are generally aware of issues. Try: DVDFab, AnyDVD, MakeMKV.

-Bill
post #38959 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Thanks, Bill.

Is this "copy protection" scheme that of a single studio? Other than the glitching audio, is there a way to find out if discs use this technique (I guess short of ripping the files)?

I want to find such "scatter" discs that use DTS-HD to see if any have reported issues.

I don't recall ever reading a complaint on DTS 7.1 discs. By and large the Disney/Pixar discs with 7.1 DTHD have been the culprits. As for the insane seamless branching protection schemes, ripping is the only way to know for sure. They also usually include several bogus title sets that result in swapped scenes and/or warning screen video segments. In short this is specifically designed to throw a wrench into the popular ripping tools. Of course it doesn't work. If you have a tool like AnyDVD-HD, you can look at the contents of the stream folder to see how many M2TS files there are and their size. If the movie is contained in a single file it will be huge. M.U. has files that represent only a few seconds of video, the largest is maybe 1GB. Over 130 files in total. One can only hope that the disc authors bothered to locate those files in sequence on the disc.

I don't think there's ever been clear evidence that the seamless branching itself is the cause of dropouts, and some titles will cause the same issues even after the many files are stitched back into a single M2TS file. However its IS true that all the titles with this specific issue are also titles that use seamless branching. Its entirely possible that there is more than a single element causing this, and not all dropouts are the same. The best explanation we've heard to date was that Dolby has been changing some specs for decoders, and players need updates to handle titles encoded with those new specs. Of course nobody bothers to tell the decoder makers about it, but we have seen evidence that decoder updates can resolve the issues on some titles.
post #38960 of 39277
^^ Thank you, Mr. Grimes, for the superb overview of the situation. Very much appreciated. smile.gif
post #38961 of 39277
^^^
You're welcome. But I'd add that I don't think its ever been completely ruled out that AVR decoders are part of the problem. The fact that switching to LPCM output can often resolve this might be evidence of that. We do know that AVR decoders rarely get firmware updates.
post #38962 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

We're not even sure it's a copy protection issue, or just some workflow in the authoring department that never got tested properly.

I tend to forget these problems as they recede in the past. BRAVE and MONSTERS UNIVERSITY are both Disney and had a similar structure of many M2TS files which seemed to cause problems at (some of?) the transitions.

TOTAL RECALL (2012) is Sony but I think it had some other issue with the audio encoding. The solution was the same: switch to LPCM in the player and avoid some mysterious interaction with the AVR when bitstreaming. Even Sony players had troubles with this Sony disc.

All this is really hard to diagnose as an outsider. People report "works for me" without saying if they are using Bitstream or LPCM. Or if they are connected directly to a TV or soundbar, which will always be LPCM regardless of the player setting. Or what version of the title they have: a lot of titles come out in variant editions which are sometimes not very visible to the consumer.

-Bill
Thanks again, Bill. So this "disease" may have spread to Sony as well as Disney. It is just because of this sort of difficulty you describe in tracking down a culprit that I thought I should ask the experts at AVS Forum, and you and RD came through in spades. wink.gif
post #38963 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Thanks, Bill.

Is this "copy protection" scheme that of a single studio? Other than the glitching audio, is there a way to find out if discs use this technique (I guess short of ripping the files)?

I want to find such "scatter" discs that use DTS-HD to see if any have reported issues.

Roger, I suspect it is a mastering house that's touting their nifty, new, "make life difficult for disc copying programs", technique to the various studios. This particular scheme is well known for producing problems for Bitstream output in major brand players, so I've got no idea why the studios are still buying into it.

I've not tried to dig into it any further than verifying that LPCM output is a workaround, but at a guess, the branching structure looks to the AVR like the Bitstream is restarting -- meaning the AVR needs to re-validate the incoming HDMI Bitstream remains well-formed -- not digital garbage -- and can't do that fast enough to un-mute in time.

It's not clear to me whether there's really a difference in DTS for this, or whether that mastering house just happens to stick to TrueHD. You'd think Dolby would get on their case, in any event, because this is really giving TrueHD a black eye.

Basically if reports come in that the playlist has been broken up into hundreds of small flies, AND TrueHD is in use, we can pretty much bet people will start reporting problems with Bitstream output.

These authoring related issues are pretty mysterious, of course, and I could be way off base here. But that's what it looks like to me.
--Bob
post #38964 of 39277
^^ Thanks, Bob.

Sounds like the definition of "too clever by half." frown.gif
post #38965 of 39277
Speaking of the Sony version of Total Recall I just got this movie from Amazon for under $10. I tried it in my Oppo BDP 83 and I ran into the audio drop outs. In fact I tried the Directors Cut and at the 9 minute mark when they are going through the fall I had no audio at all for about 2 minutes.
Today I decided to try this on my system in the bedroom using my Pioneer BDP 320 and I had no problems at all. I tried both versions and had no issues at all. I then decided to try a Master Audio title (Jurassic Park) that had issues on the BDP 83 with popping noises in the front speakers and that title played with out incident.

My upstairs set up is a Pioneer 5010, Onkyo 7100B HTiB (Receiver is a SR 606), Pioneer BDP 320, and BlueJeans HDMI cables. My downstairs system is a Pioneer 5010, Onkyo 9400 HTiB (Receiver is a SR 609), OPPO BDP 83, and BlueJeans HDMI cables. If I am not mistaken the Pioneer BDP 320 is the same year as the OPPO BDP 83 so I really think that the issue is with the software in the OPPO, not the hardware. The Total Recall issue is also affecting the 93 and 103 series as well.

I think I may bring the Pioneer BDP 320 back downstairs with the OPPO and bring my LG BH 200 out of mothballs for the upstairs setup. I think OPPO better look into this issue since other players seem to play these titles with out issue.
post #38966 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Speaking of the Sony version of Total Recall I just got this movie from Amazon for under $10. I tried it in my Oppo BDP 83 and I ran into the audio drop outs.

Have you tried setting the player to LPCM? Sony will tell that is the solution to the problem, and it does seem to work on a variety of players where the problem occurs.

-Bill
post #38967 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

Have you tried setting the player to LPCM? Sony will tell that is the solution to the problem, and it does seem to work on a variety of players where the problem occurs.

-Bill

Yes LPCM does work but why can't the OPPO bitstream these titles with out issue while other players as old as the BDP 83 can? Even the 103 series players are having trouble. I haven't tried my BH 200 yet, which is from 2007, but if that player can play these titles without incident then it does not make OPPO look to good. I understand that the OPPOs do a lot of things but their primary duty is to spin shiny discs first and foremost.
post #38968 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jed1 View Post

Yes LPCM does work but why can't the OPPO bitstream these titles with out issue while other players as old as the BDP 83 can? Even the 103 series players are having trouble. I haven't tried my BH 200 yet, which is from 2007, but if that player can play these titles without incident then it does not make OPPO look to good. I understand that the OPPOs do a lot of things but their primary duty is to spin shiny discs first and foremost.

The issues with Bitstreaming these problem discs is poorly understood. It is an interaction with some receivers that some players have and some don't.

The studios don't have to keep fiddling with the format, or if they must, they could coordinate with the player manufacturers better.

You lose nothing by switching to LPCM.

-Bill
post #38969 of 39277
Hey, I'm going to re-lubricate the slide rail-bar things on the inside of the 83.
Can someone tell me what the best substance and application of this is?
post #38970 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcclain View Post

The issues with Bitstreaming these problem discs is poorly understood. It is an interaction with some receivers that some players have and some don't.

The studios don't have to keep fiddling with the format, or if they must, they could coordinate with the player manufacturers better.

You lose nothing by switching to LPCM.

-Bill

It seems to me it is always the core Blu ray supporters, Sony, Disney, and Fox, whom I like to call the "Usual Suspects", that always cause playback issues with the players.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Blu-ray Players
AVS › AVS Forum › Blu-ray & HD DVD › Blu-ray Players › Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only]