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Official OPPO BDP-83 Owner's Thread [technical talk only] - Page 135

post #4021 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

...just got off the phone with our friends at Oppo - took a bit of back and forth, but we straightened out the situation...

Long story short, another one of you (hopefully) will be receiving their own email shortly. JohnAV, please take me off the EAP list. As guessed, they sent the email to me in error (well, without the system remembering to check where I'm from), and my order is going to be canceled.

Pity, I was hoping you'd slip through the crack in their system.
I've put my name on a waiting list with both "Only Best Rated" and "Solutions A/V". Those are the only 2 Canadian resellers I know.
post #4022 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

But MLP on its own it not supported according to the Oppo 83 FAQ or the manual. It's supported through DD TrueHD and DVD-Audio though.

It's supported in all other Oppo players, and is anticipated in the -83 too. The FAQ and manual are "pre-DVD-A" versions. Home authored DVD-A with LPCM hi-res tracks should be play-able too.
post #4023 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

Hi everyine, I had a couple questions about this player. Is there a rough estimate for an official release date?

OPPO has been saying March for a long time now, and so far that hasn't changed. Some have speculated that because of what is going on now, sometime in April would be more realistic. However, once the general release begins, it may be a while before OPPO's manufacturing is able to catch up to the pent-up demand for the player. The company says that they are likely to give priority to those who expressed an explicit interest in participating in the EAP program, but my observation is that everything has been and therefore will be subject to change, so nobody should feel entitled to anything. Certainly a major factor is how feature-complete and bug-free the latest firmware update will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

Also, I read in the faq that it does not support playback of wav files but it does support lpcm as a codec. Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that wav and lpcm were basically the same thing.

They are not the same thing. WAV is an audio container format while LPCM is a method of encoding digital audio. In analogy, WAV is like a lined sheet of paper while LPCM is like the language being used. While it is true that WAV files usually contain uncompressed LPCM, which explains why the two are so closely associated, WAV files can in fact contain MP3 or other types of encoded audio data.

The BDP-83 currently does not support the WAV file format, but it should support LPCM encoding in other file formats, such as VOB (verified) or AVI (according to the Unofficial FAQ but not known to have been tested).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

Is the wma format the only lossless audio supported through media playback from a usb device? I'd appreciate any help.

MLP is currently the only audio-specific lossless format supported. WMA is currently only supported when using a lossy encoding within, not the lossless type of encoding.
post #4024 of 39277
Your situation is unfortunate.

Pick me OPPO!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

Pity, I was hoping you'd slip through the crack in their system.
I've put my name on a waiting list with both "Only Best Rated" and "Solutions A/V". Those are the only 2 Canadian resellers I know.
post #4025 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by bborzell View Post

Your question, "Your point being?" is probably more appropriate for your post. How do you differentiate between $500 as a cost and as a "price point"?

My point was that $1,200 for a standard DVD player is a lot of money, $500 for a full featured Blu-Ray player is not, in my view. Your hypothesis on OPPO's market positioning strategy is not particularly relevant, unless you devised it.

And that is exactly what you should have said in the first place. To which I wholeheartedly agree. It's just that people incorrectly use metaphor and allusion that tend to obfuscate the point that they are attempting to establish. And even if I did devise it [marketing strategy], it was only peripheral to the my main point that I was confused in what you were trying to say.
post #4026 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by jam88 View Post

I don't know what Canada you live in but actually all imports into Canada incur brokerage fees no matter what carrier is used and that includes USPS/Canada Post. See Importing Non-Commercial Goods by Mail

Jam, I live in Ontario near Toronto. I have yet to pay a brokerage fee to USPS/Canada Post and I have brought several items in that way, including an Oppo DVD player. They usually charge the PST/GST, but on a recent cables order from Monoprice they didn't even charge that.

You can quote me letter and verse of the customs act all you want - I'm telling you that I've brought in several items that way and the most I've paid is PST/GST. Not trying to smuggle anything - Canada Post is the bloody government after all.

I also hand carried in a projector that I bought from AVS and declared it with Canada Customs at Niagara Falls - again, PST/GST only.

I'm sure many other forum members here will confirm that they have brought stuff in by USPS/Canada Post without paying brokerage fees. You go ahead and use UPS and Fedex if you want - I'll use the government services and skip the fees. Anyway, this is way off-topic and not worth arguing about.
post #4027 of 39277
Does anyone know why Oppo could not send out the second batch of 300 players as is, and then update the software of ALL 350 units in the field over the internet when it was ready to go. This would have gained at least a week of testing time for the newly updated units. All 350 83s would have been used for the second evaluation in this way.
Oh yes, I know, this is to reasonable for todays convoluted thinking and makes too much sence from a buisness perspective.
post #4028 of 39277
Thread Starter 
We already answered this. But here are the quick dirty responses (click the number for the original post):

1. Gives OPPO the opportunity to test the player before it is shipped.

2. Ensures that there is no user errors when performing the upgrade.

3. Ensures that the upgrade is ported properly. Some firmware revisions will not be compatible with new firmware revisions due to prerequisites not being met.

4. Ensures that all units are on the same page (ie. no discrepancies in the firmware to bog down bug reporting and troubleshooting) and the player is out-of-box complete.
post #4029 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by baniels View Post

Your situation is unfortunate.

Pick me OPPO!!

While I'd love to have one now, it's no big deal, it'll get here soon enough.
post #4030 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by yourtoys7 View Post

I didn't get into 2nd eap, any one has pioneer 05 or 51 model?, I can't wait as I don't have any BD player at all and the pricing of 51 is almost half of oppo.

If all your interested in is Blu-ray playback and decent sd upconversion,
get the 51.

I have both and after I tested them against each other for a few days,
lets just say the Pioneer hasn't seen much use.
post #4031 of 39277
In other words Oppo does not trust the people in the field to do a software upgrade, even if they were competent to do so, and they wanted total control of the software upgrade. Well, that does make sense but was it worth waisting a week worth of very valuable time to get this thing onto the open market?
post #4032 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer View Post

We already answered this. But here are the quick dirty responses (click the number for the original post):

1. Gives OPPO the opportunity to test the player before it is shipped.

2. Ensures that there is no user errors when performing the upgrade.

3. Ensures that the upgrade is ported properly. Some firmware revisions will not be compatible with new firmware revisions due to prerequisites not being met.

4. Ensures that all units are on the same page (ie. no discrepancies in the firmware to bog down bug reporting and troubleshooting) and the player is out-of-box complete.

Perhaps there is one other possible reason for installing the firmware before shipping.

Since this is the first release of the player with decoding of DVD-Audio, and, presumably, will carry the DVD-A logo, if they shipped the players w/o the new firmware already installed it would make the player still only DVD-A capable--not truly DVD-A ready.

Just a thought.
post #4033 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D View Post

Haven't most people connected the Oppo to their LANs? It seems by far the easiest way to upgrade FW.

I have it connected and plan on doing upgrades that way.
post #4034 of 39277
Yes, you have a good point there!
post #4035 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabillyhop View Post

Jam, I live in Ontario near Toronto. I have yet to pay a brokerage fee to USPS/Canada Post and I have brought several items in that way, including an Oppo DVD player. They usually charge the PST/GST, but on a recent cables order from Monoprice they didn't even charge that.

You can quote me letter and verse of the customs act all you want - I'm telling you that I've brought in several items that way and the most I've paid is PST/GST. Not trying to smuggle anything - Canada Post is the bloody government after all.

I also hand carried in a projector that I bought from AVS and declared it with Canada Customs at Niagara Falls - again, PST/GST only.

I'm sure many other forum members here will confirm that they have brought stuff in by USPS/Canada Post without paying brokerage fees. You go ahead and use UPS and Fedex if you want - I'll use the government services and skip the fees. Anyway, this is way off-topic and not worth arguing about.

I can confirm this. Maybe 5% of the time there is a fixed $5 brokerage fee with USPS/Canada Post. Most of the time there is no fee and no PST or GST. The few times I had to use UPS there were huge fees so I don't order from the US if they only use UPS. Amazon.com has started charging "estimated" taxes, but Tower still does not. In all cases I have used them, both use USPS/Canada Post and arrive with no additional fees.
post #4036 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Cook View Post

OPPO has been saying March for a long time now, and so far that hasn't changed. Some have speculated that because of what is going on now, sometime in April would be more realistic. However, once the general release begins, it may be a while before OPPO's manufacturing is able to catch up to the pent-up demand for the player. The company says that they are likely to give priority to those who expressed an explicit interest in participating in the EAP program, but my observation is that everything has been and therefore will be subject to change, so nobody should feel entitled to anything. Certainly a major factor is how feature-complete and bug-free the latest firmware update will be.



They are not the same thing. WAV is an audio container format while LPCM is a method of encoding digital audio. In analogy, WAV is like a lined sheet of paper while LPCM is like the language being used. While it is true that WAV files usually contain uncompressed LPCM, which explains why the two are so closely associated, WAV files can in fact contain MP3 or other types of encoded audio data.

The BDP-83 currently does not support the WAV file format, but it should support LPCM encoding in other file formats, such as VOB (verified) or AVI (according to the Unofficial FAQ but not known to have been tested).



MLP is currently the only audio-specific lossless format supported. WMA is currently only supported when using a lossy encoding within, not the lossless type of encoding.

Robert, much appreciated. I do appreciate the lesson on wav and lpcm. Kinda funny, as I was reading it I remember way back (before mp3 players were common) I used to burn cd's with mp3 files as the source.
post #4037 of 39277
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorr View Post

In other words Oppo does not trust the people in the field to do a software upgrade ...

They may not trust that the person will actually perform the upgrade. Second, as gonk pointed out, we do not know what firmware revision is installed on the units OPPO will be using for the next 300 participants. Not all firmware revisions can be updated directly to the latest releases.

Quote:


... but was it worth waisting a week worth of very valuable time to get this thing onto the open market?

If it prevents units from being bricked, yes, it is well worth forfeiting a week to ensure that the next 300 units go out in full working condition.
post #4038 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anorr View Post

In other words Oppo does not trust the people in the field to do a software upgrade, even if they were competent to do so, and they wanted total control of the software upgrade. Well, that does make sense but was it worth waisting a week worth of very valuable time to get this thing onto the open market?

Only if you want to be sure that you're not chasing user software upgrade errors rather than real bugs.
post #4039 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

I have it connected and plan on doing upgrades that way.

From the FAQ:

"At this time (March 19, 2009) it is not possible to update the MCU portion of the firmware over the network; this must be done via USB or data disc."
post #4040 of 39277
We will never know which was the better option, will we! I can tell you one thing if I had been responsible for that desision, all 300 units would be on their way and the software would have been sent out over the Internet as soon as it was ready! The only way I would have held them up is if there were some hardware modifications involved on all 300 units and the other 50 would have to be recalled for those changes. On the other hand Oppo has facts that we are not aware of that made the decision not to ship until the upgrade was implemented and tested on each and every unit! Maybe they were just being extra cautious!
post #4041 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

... The FAQ and manual are "pre-DVD-A" versions. .

There's a thought. Will we get a new, final, printed manual when EAP-II concludes?
post #4042 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkshark View Post

...just got off the phone with our friends at Oppo - took a bit of back and forth, but we straightened out the situation...

Long story short, another one of you (hopefully) will be receiving their own email shortly. JohnAV, please take me off the EAP list. As guessed, they sent the email to me in error (well, without the system remembering to check where I'm from), and my order is going to be canceled.

I live in Alaska, and just went thru the same drill--got the invite, ordered the player, only to have the order canceled.

According to Oppo, their list of folks interested in the EAP doesn't include a field for state/country of residence. So they're sending out invitations randomly, and only confirming state/country of residence when the order comes in.

And no amount of cajoling or whining will change their mind about the exclusions for Canada, AK and HI. Believe me, I tried.
post #4043 of 39277
Thread Starter 
The only things required on the Blu-ray Interest List are Name, E-Mail Address, and Country/Region. The system should have not have selected any foreign entires due to the "Country/Region" requirement (though, IIRC, the initial Blu-ray Interest List registration form lacked the Country/Region requirement).

In terms of Alaska and Hawaii, with a lack of a State field, there is no way to isolate these people. So it is expected that some users from these states will be randomly selected.
post #4044 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

If all your interested in is Blu-ray playback and decent sd upconversion,
get the 51.

I have both and after I tested them against each other for a few days,
lets just say the Pioneer hasn't seen much use.

So would you say the 51 is close to the 83 in Blu-ray playback and sd upconversion?

Or is the Oppo getting all your use for other features?

I'm guessing the the vast majority of users, ( post release ) will care most about Blu-ray playback and sd upconversion.

Where would Pio-81 and PS3 fall on this scale for just Blu_ray and SD Upconversion?

Grade - Player
10 - Oppo 83
?? - Pio 51
?? - PS3
1 - Average $200 player
post #4045 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by sremick View Post

From the FAQ:

"At this time (March 19, 2009) it is not possible to update the MCU portion of the firmware over the network; this must be done via USB or data disc."

Thank you.

It will be available in the future?

USB or data disc is fine by me also.
post #4046 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by sremick View Post

From the FAQ:

"At this time (March 19, 2009) it is not possible to update the MCU portion of the firmware over the network; this must be done via USB or data disc."

MCU controls the fan (and I don't know what else). Updates should be rare.

Whether network updates of this portion will ever be enabled: I don't know.

-Bill
post #4047 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendo70433 View Post

There's a thought. Will we get a new, final, printed manual when EAP-II concludes?

I haven't heard, but I bet you will.

-Bill
post #4048 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post

Robert, much appreciated. I do appreciate the lesson on wav and lpcm. Kinda funny, as I was reading it I remember way back (before mp3 players were common) I used to burn cd's with mp3 files as the source.

In this case, if you were burning a traditional audio CD (known as "Red Book"), which can only use LPCM-encoded audio, then the software you were using to burn the CD automatically converted the MP3 encoding to its LPCM equivalent (a process that people commonly call decoding). Note that MP3 is not only the name of a certain type of lossy encoding, it also refers to the file format that typically contains MP3 encoding. So you can have, for example, WAV files that contain LPCM encoding, WAV files that contain MP3 encoding, MP3 files that contain MP3 encoding, AVI files that contain AC-3 (Dolby Digital) encoding, VOB files (DVD-specific MPEG-2 files) that contain DTS encoding, and a myriad of other combinations.

Presumably, the BDP-83 would be able to play any supported encoding format that is contained within any supported file format. This still needs to be tested for file formats other than VOB.
post #4049 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

If all your interested in is Blu-ray playback and decent sd upconversion,
get the 51.

I have both and after I tested them against each other for a few days,
lets just say the Pioneer hasn't seen much use.


Thanks, how is 2 Ch audio over RCA?
post #4050 of 39277
Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

If all your interested in is Blu-ray playback and decent sd upconversion,
get the 51.

This is fascinating, and if true, you might have just saved me $250 and made it possible for someone to take my EAP spot. I have to decide whether having a second device for SACD is a hassle (I have two around, right now). And whether I need to do the test for myself.

Quote:


I have both and after I tested them against each other for a few days, lets just say the Pioneer hasn't seen much use.

This is a non-sequeter unless you mean there is something other than video quality and audio quality that makes you prefer the Oppo?
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