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pretty simple question... i think

post #1 of 20
Thread Starter 
hey all,

im getting ready to upgrade almost every piece of my HT system. im looking at Towers or larger bookshelf speakers for the fronts.

my receiver will most likely be a Denon AVR589 or 689, which are rated at 75 and 80 watts a channel.

one of the speakers im looking at for the front is the Jamo S606, which can be bi-wired and are rated at 130W and a 210W peak. if i choose to bi-wire, which would be either 150W or 160W, i should be ok as long as i dont crank them all the way up, correct? im in an apartment, so i wont be going super loud. plus, my living/dining room area, is only about 12X19

thanks in advance for any and all input!
post #2 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile View Post

hey all,

im getting ready to upgrade almost every piece of my HT system. im looking at Towers or larger bookshelf speakers for the fronts.

my receiver will most likely be a Denon AVR589 or 689, which are rated at 75 and 80 watts a channel.

one of the speakers im looking at for the front is the Jamo S606, which can be bi-wired and are rated at 130W and a 210W peak. if i choose to bi-wire, which would be either 150W or 160W, i should be ok as long as i dont crank them all the way up, correct? im in an apartment, so i wont be going super loud. plus, my living/dining room area, is only about 12X19

thanks in advance for any and all input!

Biwiring will NOT increase the wattage fed to your speakers. It will remain the same as what the receiver is capable of outputting using single wire.
post #3 of 20
Thread Starter 
yeah but if i have 75W per channel, and im using to seperate channels to power EACH front speaker, how does that not make more watts powering the speaker?

...am i missing something here?
post #4 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile View Post

yeah but if i have 75w per channel, and im using to seperate channels to power each front speaker, how does that not make more watts powering the speaker?

...am i missing something here?

+1
post #5 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile View Post

yeah but if i have 75W per channel, and im using to seperate channels to power EACH front speaker, how does that not make more watts powering the speaker?

...am i missing something here?

Bi-wiring is probably one of the most discussed topic here. Do a quick search and you will know what I'm talking about.

Some people call it buy-wiring. I wonder why?
post #6 of 20
You're talking about bi-amping, using two separate channels to drive the woofer and tweeter. This does not double the power to the speakers, it's simply giving each driver it's own amplifier. In theory it allows the amplifier to better work with the impedance of the single driver/crossover, which people say helps a ton. I've never tried it myself so I can't say what kind of difference it makes definitively.

As far as bi-wiring goes, which is completely different, you're using two cables from one amplifier. This is what's widely debated, as most claim it's just using double the wire for pretty much nothing. From what I've gathered, there is an impedance change when you do this however, so there a difference. Whether it's an audible difference or not I do not know, I have tried it and thought there was a slight difference in imaging but it could be in my head.
post #7 of 20
Look at the attached pic. Maybe it would help.

#1 is bi-wire
#2 is also bi-wire
#3 is single
LL
post #8 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by boulderdashcci View Post

You're talking about bi-amping, using two separate channels to drive the woofer and tweeter. This does not double the power to the speakers, it's simply giving each driver it's own amplifier. In theory it allows the amplifier to better work with the impedance of the single driver/crossover, which people say helps a ton. I've never tried it myself so I can't say what kind of difference it makes definitively.

.

This is what I was thinking he was refering to.....the individual that set my sytem up did this with my 3808 & SVS towers on my 5.1 set-up....
post #9 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam McFarland View Post

This is what I was thinking he was refering to.....the individual that set my sytem up did this with my 3808 & SVS towers on my 5.1 set-up....

Then why did you agree with him on bi-wiring?
post #10 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile View Post

hey all,

im getting ready to upgrade almost every piece of my HT system. im looking at Towers or larger bookshelf speakers for the fronts.

my receiver will most likely be a Denon AVR589 or 689, which are rated at 75 and 80 watts a channel.

one of the speakers im looking at for the front is the Jamo S606, which can be bi-wired and are rated at 130W and a 210W peak. if i choose to bi-wire, which would be either 150W or 160W, i should be ok as long as i dont crank them all the way up, correct? im in an apartment, so i wont be going super loud. plus, my living/dining room area, is only about 12X19

thanks in advance for any and all input!

If you are talking about b-wiring, then, as stated, there will be no benefit in terms of additional wattage to your speakers. You *might* get a slightly better signal to your speakers, especially if you use cheap, small-gauge wire, but it's unlikely you'll hear any difference.

If you are talking about bi-amping using the "leftover" amp channels in a 7.1 receiver, it's doubtful you'll realize much difference either. Receiver's power outputs are limited by the power supply. No matter how many channels are running, the power supply can only supply a limited amount of current. Adding two more amps to the power supply will only cause you to hit the limits of the power supply earlier.

The *correct* way to bi-amplify is to remove the crossover from the speaker. Then take the pre-amp outputs and run them to an active crossover, which will divide the frequency spectrum *before* the power amps. Then run the separate signals to separate power amps, each with their own power supplies; one power amp to drive the tweeter(s) and one power amp to driver the woofer(s). This is an expensive and complicated design to accomplish, but it is the only way to appropriately "bi-amplify".

The speakers you are considering have a separate, powered woofer in the base. You can *effectively* bi-amplify your system by using the Bass Management in the receiver to cross the upper speakers over. You would then be using the receiver's power amps to drive the speakers and the powered woofer's amps to driver the woofers. However, you would give up the ability to have true, subwoofers in the system.

IMO, you would be better off forgetting about either bi-wiring or bi-amping, and about getting speakers with built-in powered "woofers" for an HT system. Get speakers to handle the frequencies from 80 Hz or so on up. Get subwoofer(s) to handle the frequencies from 80 Hz down. Use Bass Management to divide the frequency spectrums accordingly. Use one, good quality speaker cable per speaker, (note that "good quality" doesn't necessarily mean "expensive".) Then look to get as much amp power as possible within your budget to drive the speakers.

Craig
post #11 of 20
Using the official specs, the speakers are 6 ohm and 89dB sens. The AVR will put out more power into a 6 ohm load. Either amp will put out over 100 watts/channel in 6 ohms.

I would just hook them up straight. Don't bother with all that other crap that you would hardly notice if you did at all.
post #12 of 20
Thread Starter 
ok.... mor info but not quite as clear. haha sorry, doing my best to keep up

here, ill attach a few pics and explain what i thought all along. hopefully were saying the same thing but two different ways

im looking at getting a Denon receiver and Jamo speakers. the jamo have two sets of inputs. there is the little gold 'binding post' i think its called which connects the two. it is my understanding that with were i to only connect one set to my receiver, and NOT use the binding post, my sound quality would suffer severely. so, my question is, if my receiver has front speakers "A" and "B", and i choose to run each set into the speaker, without the binding post, will that be an improvement in sound quality over one set and using the post? and also, isnt that powering the speaker with twice as many watts?

heres an aweful drawing in paint. sorry, im not at work, and i dont have AutoCAD at home ...yet

thanks for the input so far everyone
LL
LL
post #13 of 20
Be sure to get at least 18 guage wire, but, don't worry about the bi-wiring, its just doubling the guage of the wire.
post #14 of 20
Just leave everything the way it is. No bi-wire or bi-amp. craig john pretty much covered everything. Get high quality speaker wires (no smaller than AWG 14) and quality interconnect (not expensive) and enjoy.
post #15 of 20
Thread Starter 
oops. two more things i should probably mention.

1) in the Jamo pic, i should crossed out the binding post. i believe you should remove that when bi-amping, right?
2) those jamos have an extra, non-powered, side mounted woofer. i would think that one of those would just go to the woofer, right?

you can see the woofer here:
http://jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=5922...roductID=17849

also, i was reading an owners manual for a set of Linn speakers (i like to dream, sue me ) and they had a diagram on not using the binding posts and multi-amping. i think they had five sets.... quint-amping????
post #16 of 20
Same as my above post #14.
post #17 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile View Post

ok.... mor info but not quite as clear. haha sorry, doing my best to keep up

here, ill attach a few pics and explain what i thought all along. hopefully were saying the same thing but two different ways

im looking at getting a Denon receiver and Jamo speakers. the jamo have two sets of inputs. there is the little gold 'binding post' i think its called which connects the two. it is my understanding that with were i to only connect one set to my receiver, and NOT use the binding post, my sound quality would suffer severely. so, my question is, if my receiver has front speakers "A" and "B", and i choose to run each set into the speaker, without the binding post, will that be an improvement in sound quality over one set and using the post? and also, isnt that powering the speaker with twice as many watts?

The Denon AVR 589 is a 5.1 receiver. It doesn't even have an extra set of amps to use for bi-amping. Also, if you want to use the A & B speaker outputs simultaneously, this is *not* bi-amping. This receiver is using the *same* amp to drive the A and B speakers simultaneously. If you want to do this, the manual says to use 12 to 16 ohm speakers. The Jamo S606's are 6 Ohm speakers. It could be suicidal to the receiver to run them with the A + B speaker terminals. More importantly, it absolutely will *not* double the power to the speakers.
http://www.usa.denon.com/AVR-589-OM-E_006.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaphile View Post

oops. two more things i should probably mention.

1) in the Jamo pic, i should crossed out the binding post. i believe you should remove that when bi-amping, right?
2) those jamos have an extra, non-powered, side mounted woofer. i would think that one of those would just go to the woofer, right?

you can see the woofer here:
http://jamo.com/Default.aspx?ID=5922...roductID=17849

You are correct, the S606's have *non-powered* woofers. I was mistaken above. Therefore you could not run the theoretical bi-amped system I described.

If I were designing a system using the Jamo Studio series, I would use the S-604's, three of them across the front. Then I would use two or four of the 602's in the surround positions (depending on whether the system is 5.1 or 7.1.), and I would use at least 2 of the Sub 250 powered subwoofers. Then I would use the Bass Management in the receiver to re-route all the bass to the subwoofer(s).

I would run ONE, decent quality speaker cable to each speaker. Bi-amping is off the table.

Craig
post #18 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysay View Post

Then why did you agree with him on bi-wiring?

Because I thought he was talking about bi-amping as I stated.....I was mistaken....I thought I made that clear....
post #19 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam McFarland View Post

Because I thought he was talking about bi-amping as I stated.....I was mistaken....I thought I made that clear....

Either way, it still not going to double the amp output like what the OP is led to believe.
post #20 of 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysay View Post

Either way, it still not going to double the amp output like what the OP is led to believe.

Thank you.....
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