Do you like the Aiming System in Killzone 2? - Page 9

Wow. This sounds like some sort college campus inspired left wing zealotry; you are only tolerant of other points of view as long as they agree with yours. Anyway, as I've stated a few times, I think the acceleration is turned up too high which makes it a bit difficult to hit moving objects.

However, I have not noticed the input lag that you mention. If it is there, it is not significant enough to ruin the game for me, as I've played both SP and MP extensively. Obviously you don't like the controls, which is fine, but don't try to incessantly push your point of view on everyone else.

I'm sure they will get the picture when they find out how many people return the game( not that they care they already got the money) MP keeps you playing...if it is flawed people will likely return it because single player is good but not that good. Even if 25% of people don't like the aiming that's a lot of word of mouth to their friends who want to buy it.

Based on your responses thus far, you are either ignorant yourself or simply a troll. why is it so hard to accept a differing opinion? Most of the posters in this thread have adopted a mature stance on this topic and are debating their opinions, not arguing that every one who likes the control scheme is dead wrong. you go on and sell your game and leave the thread, let the grown ups talk.

HAHA. Pwn3d.

The input lag is not an opinion, and yes I realize that sounds like left wing, the "science is settled" zealotry. If you pull the pistol out and do what I've mentioned multiple times, honestly it is UNDENABLE that serious lag exists between when you press the button and when the game responds by firing the gun. I guess I will have to youtube it since people can't seem to figure it out.

I can understand the dissapointment in the controls. It does seem like a weak statement by the developers to claim that they want the game to "feel" different, but I can respect it.

Something simply feels "off". Whether it be input lag or whatever you want to call it. I am getting used to it but still wish it was tighter.

Still, it is a good game and the MP honestly feels like nothing I have ever played before in terms of sheer size and war chaos happening. Very cool.

So, either respect the decision the developers made and play it or dont play it. Not buying the game or returning it is more of a message than jumping on forums and berating those who dont agree with you.

I am a man of science, I rely heavily on observation for a scientific study, and on my game, I observe little to no input lag (yes I have watched the videos on youtube) NOTHING on the order of what some of you claim is there. I have had no problem as with a good many others, so just because YOU think the controls are broken does not make that fact. take you BROKEN control game and get rid of it if it is that big of a problem. My friends that I have talked to don't notice the BROKEN controller scheme you are hellbent on ranting about and making sure we all know your OPINION about it. Accept it, not every one agrees with you, just like not every one will agree with me.

Yea I don't think a YouTube is going to change anyones mind. I'm sure some genuinely do like the controls, some are the usual apologists, but in the end all you can do is play it or sell it. GG has apparently made their bed and aren't changing it. I wish it was more responsive but it doesn't stop me from enjoying it despite the flaws.

What would you estimate the lag to be? 50ms, 100ms, 200ms? Maybe the game has some amount of lag that imperceptible to most people (<50ms?) and your TV exacerbates the problem by adding another 50ms, to create a total delay of 100ms or more. There has to be a reason that you sense the lag and many others don't. I know you're convinced that the reason for this disagreement is that the rest of us are complete dolts, but I can assure you that is not the case.

Doubtful. Seems rather ironic that after 3 years of owning 360 and 2+ owning PS3, that the first time I would have noticed such serious lag in my TV (that I've owned since April of 07) is when the MAJORITY of KZ2 players say there is something wrong.

The difference in response time between KZ2 and ALL OTHER SHOOTERS I OWN is clear as day.

hey now, let's keep politics outta the discussion.

there's zealots on both sides, in politics and gaming





See, I know you think you're claiming to speak for the Majority, but really how do you know? Unscientific polls where similar people seek out on the internet? Even here, we've had N00bs sign up to bitch about them, for that reason alone. Whats to say the majority are sitting around actually playing and enjoying the game?

It's like the whole 60GB LOD crap all over. Just because a small minority has a pedestal to shot from doesn't mean it's the majority that isn't wasting it's time with arguing dreck.

This obviously wasn't an issue in the closed beta testing, nor the online limited beta testing. If it was, it must have been a minority opinion. We would have heard about it.

My suggestion for people having trouble is to stop trying to play with the COD ALT2 controls and just take a breather and learn it.

As for the lag, something does sound wrong. I'll check again when I get home, but I haven't experienced this. My thoughts is it could be caused by how K2 renders and upscale, and fooling with some settings might alleviate some problems.

Don't know a whole ton on your TV, but it does seem to have a "Game Mode", which would suggest that it does have some inherent lag. Have you tried tuning game Mode on? Have you noticed any difference?

Ok, so the "deadzone" complaint is different than the input lag complaint. Tonight I'll pay close attention and see if I can notice it. But when I was playing this weekend, I never noticed it(the delay in firing). Not saying its not there, just that I did not notice it.

Look, I'm going to still try to "adapt" since GG has told the majority of their customers to screw off, because as I've said, the game is truly amazing. The MP structure is VERY cool. I'm just stunned people are ok with or don't see AND hear this lag and try to pass it off as it doesn't matter or say it's just my TV when NO OTHER games have caused me this issue on this TV in 2 years.

*I'm playing with standard 1 controls. Too hard to hold crouch and aim and move all with the left hand at the same time. So much easier to just click the right stick to zoom.

there's three separate complains from what I've seen.

1. Larger dead zone then most titles
2. acceleration / deceleration
3. Input lag

I haven't noticed the lag, but if it is there and causing trouble for some people, that should be patched. The other two I'm fine with, and it's really just part of the learning curve.


I know the feeling, but in this day and age of differences in Tech, I never am

My guess is there might be a small input lag due to how this game is rendering and it being 30FPS. Some TV's will exacerbate the problem, thus some see it, some don't. I could easily see how the acceleration, deceleration and dead zones would also exacerbate it.

If there's a 50ms lag that most people can't notice, your TV ups this to 100ms, then the game has a large dead zone / acceleration / deceleration; there you go. You might be overcompensating for the lag due to the way the controls work. In a game that relys on you learning the acceleration / deceleration, the lag would really screw up your ability to react based on what your eyes are seeing.

Like I said, not sure if your TV has game mode, but it appears it does. If you've never used it, it'll turn off some processing stuff your TV normally does to allow the video to be processed faster, and it might help. I'd be interested if it shows any improvement while being turned on / off, so please report back you findings.

I'm running a SXRD XBR2, which has very little lag if any, and haven't noticed input lag like some of the youtubes I've seen.

That could be a legitimate issue for GG to take notice of.

I have no problem with the input lag. It's on par with Halo 3 and other shooters. It's the deadzone I don't like.

These attacks on GG are kinda harsh IMO.... they are in a tough spot right now, as the game was beta tested, decisions where made at that time, and to quickly ignore the info that was acquired during the extensive beta testing because of internet chatter might be premature. Just something to think about...

It has it. To be honest I forgot it does because I've never had to consider turning it on before even for VERY response time oriented games such as Rock Band, Geometry Wars 2, or any other FPS, etc. I will definitley try it tonight and pray it helps.

I'm also fine with the deadzone and acceleration (I actually like the feel the acceleration gives the guns).

Will,

I just saw your gamer tag and lol'd.

There's a disconnect between your opinion here and that gamertag

It's been mentioned before but I'm sure it could stand to be said again.. Why on earth wouldn't game designers offer a higher level of user configuration regarding the control set ups?

What is the benefit of restricting these options? I refuse to believe that in this day and age it would be even slightly inconvenient for a game developer to allow me to bind whatever button I like to fire, move etc.. it's been available on PCs since the dawn of time.

.. and while they're offering me a configurable set up, let me change dead-zone and acceleration settings as well as sensitivity.

Honestly. I just don't see why these options aren't already widely available. Instead of providing me with 6 different controller set up options, just let me create my own already for crying out loud.

I really hope I can muster the patience to try to adapt to the sloppy feeling controls because the game itself is excellent. I tried a session on the multiplayer last night and it felt like my character was seriously inebriated.

Right now it's just so bloody frustrating and counterintuitive I feel seriously conflicted over my desire to play it.

I'm with you matt. I find Standard 1 to actually be the easiest, though it's not perfect.

So am I reading correctly that some of you are claiming to have zero input lag? As in, you touch the button, and it immediately responds? There is a definite input lag for me with every button, in the menus, the left trigger for aiming, the firing. I can adapt to different dead zones but the input lag is really what is driving me bananas.....

I think we should further qualify by asking how if you have a problem with the aiming AND you play MP or SP. I can understand how the aiming would be ok in single player, where u can take all the time u need to line up shots and you're not shooting across the entire map at people running...MP is a diff story.

Im guessing that the people saying aiming is ok, are the ones playing SP primarily.

Exactly. I used a Halo scenario earlier. Do you think of Halo 4 came out with these controls people would complain? Omg yes, they would whine like there was no tomorrow!! And yes, it would be considered an epic fail for Bungie/Microsoft.

But because of the hardcore PS3 fanboys (not hardcore gamers) here that defend a broken system, we probably won't see a fix. Thanks guys, really appreciate it.

Two very simple reasons:

1) FPS design is a tricky business. One thing designers are concerned about is giving players an unfair advantage through user configuration. Limiting the configuration options helps keep everyone on even footing.

2) FPS designers are game designers. On consoles, a major part of the overall design is button mapping. As it is, you'd be hard-pressed to find many console FPSs or games in other genres that offer as much configuration as KZ2. It's only when you compare it to PC shooters that it looks too rigid.

Also, FYI, I'm getting no noticeable lag. Can't say I've scientifically measured it or anything, but as far as my brain is concerned, it hasn't noticed any lag whatsoever. Press a button, get an on-screen response. Yes, the game controls "heavy," but not "laggy."

I would just add that, in my mind anyway, if this many people are unhappy with the controls then you probably got it wrong. If the controls had been more akin to almost all the other shooters available, do we think we'd have seen this much dissent?
How many people would have complained that the controls are just too darn familiar?
The control scheme shouldn't be something that one struggles with. It should facilitate your interaction with the game, not hinder it. Games with good controls can almost make you forget you're holding the controller. In my humble opinion I don't think I'll ever have this moment of epiphany with Killzone2 in its current state.

These are my impressions after several hours of game play.

+1. I don't mind the accel/decel or the dead zone, but add input lag and it becomes a mess.

Neither of these points is valid in my eyes. How can I gain an unfair advantage via my user configuration? If everyone has access to exactly the same set of controls and the same configurations - where's the advantage?

Your second point doesn't really make sense if you read it through. My point is that maybe console games should be as configurable as PC games, not that KZ2 is not as configurable as other console games. How hard can it be?

Claiming that the lag is imperceptible is different than claiming there is zero lag. There might be 50ms of lag, but I don't notice it. Maybe I am so accustomed to playing to COD4 and other laggy games online, that I have become less sensitive to lag.

Matt, I'm all with you there about allowing any configuration, and more specifically KB/M support in console games.

But as explained, even games like HALO and COD4 tweak their controls to influence gameplay, style, ect.

I don't see these options becoming available anytime soon, as it's one thing Developers tote over PC's. Console FPS are slowed down, the controls are made easier, and it opens FPS up to a much larger market then the PC.

Some FPS PC games are downright unforgiving when you play them, and you need to be very good after hours of training. They're also played very differently (earlier someone made a point of straf aiming, which is not prevalent in console FPS').

Consoles FPS are more a pick up and play genre to a point, with subtle differences in pacing and design to differentiate them.

you just keep losing more and more credibility.....not that you had much to start with. how about adding something constructive for a change.