When did Kimber Heros get so expensive??? - Page 3

Is it any wonder why the cable mongers exist? There's not a 'something' that exists where you won't find some enterprising group of people looking to pull one over on the consumer. Learned instituions like Harvard will have their alternative medicine programs so long as there's green to be made. Drug stores will sell their homeopathic preparations and magnetic insoles for the same reason.

I dont know what anyones opinion would be on the gear I use with it all. I found a $2000 (modified Anthem) tube pre worked well with $5000 mono block amps (Classe) and $12,000 speakers (VMPS). I run a $3500 CDP and a $4000 vinyl rig.
I didnt buy the cables, my father bought them all for me or gave them to me as he moved up the chain. I run the Hero's, Audioquest Mont Blanc speaker cables, Niagra connects and Discovery cables. I did have my tone arm rewired with Discovery cable aswell.
To me atleast measurments dont make sense in that we all hear differenty.
Just like food, we for the most part all love steak, pizza or chocolate. You can put 10 guys in a room and feed them the same thing, some will notice a taste they dont like, some will love it to death. The steaks or whatever all "measure" the same yet for some reason this guy or that guy doesnt like something about it, while another will love it for some reason others also dont understand. Why is it so hard to believe thats possible with how we hear? Wine or beer can be the same, just like some taste certain "notes" in a recipe or formula, some can hear subtle things about what a cable is doing to a system......just cause you cant hear it doesnt give you the right to say it doesnt exist but the arrogance factor will never let that go I am quite certain of that.
The measurement guys, cable crappers, hifi amp bashers all have some agenda that compells them to wag their finger at those they dont agree with and its actually sort of sad. Surely there is a better way to spend time and effort then to crap on others for something they do that harms noone in no way, and this "saving thw world" arguement I have seen play out here and elsewhere is a bit of arrogance gone to extremes, seriously who the hell do these people think they are?
Anyone who listens to me or another guy who has an opposite view is an idiot, listen for yourself and see what happens once your system is capable of resolving something like a cable change. If you gear, room, rack, setup and position has not been dealt with or treated then dont come to me and say "duhhhhhhh I didnt hear a thing" cause your not in a position to say anything on the matter.
Ok so let the cable turrets syndrome folks flame away, I know you cant help yourselves but I wish you well in your recovery.

ehh decided not to get into cable discussions in this forum.

Is that what you think is happening? Challenging people's likes and enjoyments???
Or, is it about challenging testable claims made???

Perhaps because you haven't been well informed on audio engineering?


It won't be hard to believe as soon as you can present some evidence. When I say evidence, I don't mean opinion. Do you have any?


Are you certain that there is / are sound human can hear (not we think we hear) but not measurable with currently available equipments? If so, can you name some?


What are you, some audio or electronics expert?


There are other forums where you won't have to face such "flame" that you are complaining about. Unless someone is holding you hostage here, you can just pick up and move on, can't you?

Comparing the human tastebuds and the sensations they provide to different individuals does NOT in any way equate with the electrical performance of a piece of wire.

With today's technology, we cannot accurately map the human brain's complex wiring as to the effect of varying textures and flavor combinations.

That is NOT the case with a electronic components or wire. There is a vast array of very well documented information on manufactured electronic systems and various wires/cables. The ratios of frequencies and amplitudes entering an amplifier and exiting an amplifier are easily tracked, quantified and visualized.

Why does that somehow become impossible when discussing the most basic part of the circuit, namely a passive piece of wire? Is there a new energy created withing the confines of the wire that only the amp and speaker respond to? Is there no other equipment that can sense this energy?

Nobody cares if you want to point to that big wire and make up some silliness to try to impress yourself or friends. Just please refrain from making patently false claims about the physics of the circuitry.

BTW, I will also be building really cool looking amps that sound so wonderful you will orgasm from even a sampling of pink noise. They only cost 69,000.00 per mono block. Its a steal. Place your orders today as these won't last long.

BTW#2, Watches waterproof to 100 meters is great. That way when they recover your body, they will know exactly what time they found you.

Because you don't like the answers you are seeing so far???

I am not complaining about being flamed, you guys are just too predictable, and I am an expert, I know what I hear and if that bothers you then get a puppy or some distraction that will give you something better to do then the tired old meaure this, measure that arguement.
By the way if indeed "we cannot accurately map the human brain's complex wiring as to the effect of varying textures and flavor combinations." then how are you so sure it cant be possible that some hear things others dont? Oh wait I know the answer...................you cant be sure.
I know it just kills some that others get enjoyment and pleasure from their systems, I know it eats at you that many can infact hear a change from a cable, a new amp, or various others tweaks, I know somehow you cant just be happy in your own skin and adopt a live and let live outlook on life...........I know all this and for a moment it makes me kinda sad, but then I get over your bitterness.
I know some cables are just marketing, some cables are not worth close to the premium they command, I know many tweaks are complete BS but I also know some are not, some cables do affect sound in both a positve and negative way. I will never offer any measurements as I choose to enjoy my music instead of being caught up in analytical circle jerks.
I know that bothers some of you to no end........sucks for you.
Cheers

Actually I make my living in professional audio visual using equipment and cables with actual value in the hundreds of thousands to a couple million dollars and on setups that dwarf anything you can possibly imagine for very large and discerning audiences and broadcasters.

As I said, I have no doubt that you think you hear a difference between cables. Between a 18 awg 100ft speaker cable running 2,000 watts vs a 10 awg doing the same thing, yes you will and the amp will let you know it as well as the speaker.

However a 20 ft mega buck cable and a 20 ft 12 awg Home Depot cable will audibly measure the same with nothing additional in the mega buck cable. If you hear it, the amp produced and the speaker converted pure electrical energy into magnetic into kinetic . There is no part of the signal that is not measurable. If you measure it and show any of us the difference, we will gladly concede. This request has been made hundreds of times on most every forum and in public, with NO ONE taking up the challenge.

Can you state here and NOW exactly what signals are produced that cannot be detected except by the "golden ear" and explain how that is created in a piece of wire. BTW, remember that no part of the audio chain in the recording studio (mics, patch bays, processors, recording media including magnetic tape in some studios) or the amplifiers in the pre and power amp have anything even resembling this magic cable. Please tell us where this magic transformation occurs and is it ratio dependent on the length of the mega buck cable?

But you did.


Let me guess, it's the one that requires no formal training and degree.

You mean you know what you think you hear.

You are getting sad from your own imagination.


Can you post some examples of that?


You seem bothered by lack of pampering on your subjective opinion.

Trust me I am not bothered at all, just as you and your kind are so sure of your views I am just as sure as mine, as are numerous others.
What I do with my system, what I believe in and what many others also experience has zero affect on your lives but you just cant except that.
I will admit before I even touched the keyboard I knew exactly what would happen, your not doing or saying anything that has not been said by many others over and over again but its fun to poke at the sleeping beast now and then if for no other reason to be entertained by its discomfort.
I shall return to the debate and its predictable discourse after I enjoy my overpriced cables and gear for a few. Cheers

I agree, fantasies can be fun.

It sure can be but sooner or later one has to wake up.

Not at all bonehead... I certainly don't need you to tell me about changes in my set-up be it a cable or an amp or whatever. I will decide if there was a change in sound quality in my system. Period. I am the greatest scientist in regards to my set-up. I live with it daily.

It's not worth the hassle to discuss because nothing here is a discussion and isn't that clear from the posts?

Your line of thinking only applies to the subjective camp? I see logical fallacies on both sides, as I am sure you do. Can you be fair about it and point it out when objectivists use faulty logic?

At least post something about the original topic. Guys, the topic here is about cables, not individuals.

It's good to see you learning the terminology, now lets see if you understand it. I'll point out the ones from your side, you are welcome to quote the ones from the other side.

You have taken the phase "logical fallacy" and ran with it ever since I introduced you to it a couple of years ago. It's in many of your contemporary posts. At any rate, pointing out flaws on one side of a debate is hardly fair and balanced.

Anyway, do you have any practical experience with the Kimber Heros? I once considered them, but this was long ago when the price was much lower.

Tess, being a cable proponent along with the concept of cable break-in and the need for a cable to settle in after having moved it, this must be quite vexing for you when you finally get around to ordering speakers and a sub. Just moving the sub in an attempt to optimize its location will necessitate having to wait several days if not a couple of weeks to arrive at a proper subjective assessment, no?

Chadnliz, one significant reason why we all hear differently is that the process of hearing is a lossy process influenced by a host of variables. You do understand what lossy means, right?

Another claim without evidence.

You are welcome to find all my logical fallacies and quote them, with the a link to the original source.

Resorting to name calling / profanity. Sure sign of desperation.


It sure is clear from you dismissal and denial. Why did you even jump in?

Maybe he meant to call you Mr. Bonehead?

Desperation?

Not sure when you purchased all of this but what are your thoughts on a capable player like the Oppo for $500 (Hey if it's good enough for Lexicon to rebadge for $3K) $1K in a Parasound, $200 in cables.

So the price difference being at least $8K (maybe $10K?) and putting that into speakers? The amplification and source are more than decent. By any standard.


It's a poor analogy. Use what ever cable you want. I am making a point for the potential new person: That is I would take that same ~$28K budget you have and get $25K of speaker, $3K in electronics and willing to bet it's a higher resolution, better imaging system. I assume we are talking 2.0?



Funny you mention beer. I have been brewing for 7 years now. When I taste a beer I can start making guesses as to the ingredients used. Heck the same beer will vary from year to year given the differences in growing seasons.

But this variability doesn't exist for Speaker or IC wire. What are your IC's doing that Mogami, Canare, Belden, Liberty, Gepco cannot?

I will say anything can be designed to sound different and the difference marketed. Again what are your cables doing that the others mentioned are not.

I mean you/we know what your Classe does, you/we know what a Tubed pre does, same for the CDP etc... We know what cable does. What are yours doing? If a cable is doing something 'special' and it was designed that way then the manufacturer should be forthcoming about what it does to the signal.

BTW my Classe and Rotel dealer is down the street from me. Would I go and swap out Classe for my Parasound? From what I heard, no.


Yours is always one of the classic lines: That the subtle differences can't be heard on even mid-fi gear in a properly treated room. So something inert as a cable can now only make a with 'conditions' difference.

Issue is I am not the one making the claims. If you claim you can flap your arms and fly the onus is on you to flap and prove it. Opinion stated as fact, which is my real problem, is still just so much opinion.

How many cheapskates does it take to screw in a light bulb? ANSWER: None, they were to cheap to buy the light bulb.

lol. No, we hear the same. What sounds like a piano to you sounds like a piano to myself. Maybe you can hear higher frequencies than I but I assure you a calibrated earthquake measurement mic can 'hear' more than you could ever imagine...

sorry, but if the signal is unchanged then pleaae explain to me why you would hear a difference that a high tech mic can not. you ear as a transducer is far inferior.


Actually, taste would apply to the differences in music we choose to listen to, not the same waveform in the air. Trained listening and trained tasting are learnable attributes associated with the brain - not the ear or tongue. Cables do not change anything so i fail to see how your brain's perception could differ based on a wire. it is like telling me your steak tastes better when you sit on a velvet throne than when you sit at the dinner table. it is still the same steak. it doesn't matter if it's on a silver platter or in a sterilized doggie bowl


No need to listen for something no one has shown exists. I guess I should always keep my eyes out at the cemetery for zombies too? lmao. sorry, I truly believe in striving for the best possible sound reproduction. I just don't believe in the paranormal. and I especially don't believe a person should go to public institutions and lie to anyone about their paranormal experiences, unless of course they can actually prove it in which case I would be fascinated.

and ahh yes, 'there is no difference because your system and ears can't resolve it'. lol. funny how the linkwitz orion with some of the best drivers in the world and superior active crossovers is sold and demo'd with zip cord and 'pedestrian ATI amps'. I guess it cant resolve anything either hahaha. People who know how these things work don't need magic wands or lucky rabbits feet or high end cable to get it to do so.
unless they're the superstitious sort... who i do leave to their own devices so long as I'm not forced to read their unsubstantiated bs.

So in your world, literally throwing money away on 100% BS audiophool nonsense correlates to audio nirvana as opposed to actual scientific accuracy and the well understood physics of audio frequency electronics.

TYVM, but we in the world of the technically savvy will retain the use of science to develop, build and install sound systems.

BTW I guarantee you that any cables we use will deliver 100% of what the amp has to offer and the speaker can reproduce.

We are STILL waiting for any form of objective validation for the adjective ridden claims of those who have successfully mined the wallets of the uber gullible.

I'm curious why you keep making comments like this? Can you explain what you mean, what point your trying to make?

Better than having a soft dome up there Evolution treated me right with a bonehead not a soft dome.

Wrong answer. Only one is required.

the real answer is that the cheapskates will make sure to get CFL lightbulbs and get more longetivity and efficiency out. of them. ;p