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Yes Dear, I'm down here working on your craft room!! - Page 25

post #721 of 772
Brad, small point but I'd consider swinging the entrance door the other way so that it opens towards the screen. That way folks can enter and walk to the rear seats easier.

- Paul.
post #722 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopefulFred View Post

Looks good to me. smile.gif

Could you recap the advice and decision process that leads you to sealed subs?

"Decision Process" implies a cognitive series of events facilitating the application of knowledge,rolleyes.gif My thoughts are typically like a ping pong match, so view my comments more as random thoughts in no particular order.

I should be clear that there were no specific recommendations "against" an IB, and based on my personnel experience I absolutely, undoubtedly, definitely, really, really loved my last one.. Really!! The visceral, tactile, chest hitting, and wind blowing your hair back (real or imagined) pressurizing effect of the IB was phenomenal. So how could I make the decision not to go with another IB setup?

I didn't necessarily come down to the performance merits of one approach over the other .I believe the same / equal performance can be had with either an IB or a sealed sub if you compare apples to apples or in this case displacement to displacement. With my last IB I really didn't have a baseline for comparison, it was the first time I had experienced 4-18" subs in the front of a sealed room. Was I overwhelmed by the IB or was it just the fact that there were 4-18" drivers pumping air at me. Can I get the same visceral and tactile impact from 4-18's in smaller boxes .. I hope so.. and this is where the people with more experience and knowledge have given assurances.

The sealed subs will require more $$ for equipment and an investment in the local power company to get the same effect, So the amount of displacement per $$ was solidly on the side of the DIY IB. The real trade off for me was space, most of us find ourselves fighting for every inch we can get in a room. I could have pushed everything back ~ 3 feet to fit the chamber, but that starts putting the second row too close to the back wall and also limiting the depth of the treatment space in the back.

I believe that the effects of the room response will rule over any difference between sealed system and an IB, and without the IB chamber i have a lot more depth for bass traps/low pass/ diffusion, whatever on the back wall which can be utilized to help tame the room. IE "more" flexibility to address response issues instead of limiting options down the road.

My last theater was a room in room, and the chamber and baffle wall were built like a fortress. Maybe unfounded but I have a nagging feeling about tying everything to clips and channel this time and what effect it may or may not have.

Lastly and maybe a moot point for many is the additional time, however limited it may be, that it would take to construct the chamber/manifolds etc vs writing a check for subs... I really don't want to spend ~3 years building this theater.

I purposely avoided the typical rhetoric of box coloration/effortless bass/ placement flexibility etc in my comments, because Im not convinced one is better than the other, Each has its advantages and disadvantages, so what is best for one may not be for someone else- for me it was a trade off $$$ vs time and space.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Nice plans. I like the stepped design you have going on for the walls and ceiling like KBlaw2010's and Dennis' Caribbean builds.

By the way...good luck staying cool this weekend. I heard it was going to be 117-119 degrees during the day and in the low 90s at night!! eek.gifeek.gif

They say that Imitation is the best form wink.gif

I have a slight aversion to the "A" typical column to hide the speakers etc.. the stepped side walls will fit very well with the same type of panel approach I used in the last theater.. Due to the limited width of the room the steps will be close to the same size as below ~ 4" but i hope with the ceiling step down they will appear slightly more exaggerated.

photo DSC05834.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moggie View Post

Brad, small point but I'd consider swinging the entrance door the other way so that it opens towards the screen. That way folks can enter and walk to the rear seats easier.

- Paul.

Good Point Paul.. At least I didn't buy the door yet...cool.gif but I do have the Zero door seals I got from Ted that I never installed last time around.. hauled em 2000 miles, knowing that one day I'd use em smile.gif



hope its not lame that I post pics of my old theater?... I didn't really post many finished pics and I found a few higher res ones left on the camera that I never posted before ......

I ended up going with control 4 system .. Probably do the same in this theater....
photo 034-1.jpg

photo 047.jpg

photo 052_02-1.jpg

photo 025.jpg

Pictures of "New" progress soon

Brad
post #723 of 772
Very excited to see you making some plans and thoughts together. Like the way the drawing looks so far. If your first effort is any indication then v2.0 should be no less fantastic. I did notice in the new theater you have planned for seven where you only had four in the other theater. I think that is a good move as well. I am very interested to see how the sealed subs work and what your thought is with them vs. the IB set up. Having experience your IB set up personally that is a high benchmark to reach.

If you can survive the ungodly heatwave this weekend looking forward to seeing some updated photographs.

Regards,

RTROSE
post #724 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post


photo 025.jpg

Pictures of "New" progress soon

Brad

Love how it looks behind the screen with the lights !.. How did you position the lights? What kind of lights?
post #725 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post

Love how it looks behind the screen with the lights !.. How did you position the lights? What kind of lights?

It was a track light bar mounted to the bottom rail of the screen frame.
===========================================================================================

Progress Pics

HVAC in

2 supplies and returns in the theater room. I'll pull the supplies to the front/returns to rear. I just had them leave enough flex to position them where ever I wanted:

Also put radiant barrier on the bottom of the deck.. Had I planned ahead, I could have bought the sheeting with it laminated to it already and saved a few $$.
photo DSC00613.jpg
- Passed rough in inspection.

Biggest door I ever hung... 8'0 x 12'0 ... took me six hours.. even read the assembly instructions rolleyes.gif

photo DSC00616.jpg

- Drywall hung on everything except the theater room.

The little door on the right is the Equipment closet. I'll put an exterior door with seals on the shop side. this will give me access to the back of the rack.

photo DSC00626.jpg

-Hook up from Ted and John

photo DSC00628.jpg

Nearly a 1000 feet of Hat Channel -

photo DSC00622.jpg

I think I have most of everything to start on the walls in the theater...

On a side note... Great Stuff Foam, one of the stickiest substances known to man, does not stick or foam up above ~ 115 degrees... it just drips off and makes this funky little puddle. Thier fire foam (the orange) seems to do a little better.. but not much

photo DSC00619.jpg

Only supposed to hit 104 today, so I'm going out to enjoy the cool weather cool.gif

Brad
post #726 of 772
Moving right along - very cool!

The weather there...I would melt. redface.gif
post #727 of 772
Read though the whole thread and was sad to see you moved away from your first. But, excited to see the next one for sure!
post #728 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBenji View Post

Moving right along - very cool!

The weather there...I would melt. redface.gif


I feel ya Ben.. The last couple days of June it hit 119. Not uncommon to go through 4-5 bottles of poweraide in a day..

So I've been thinking about calling this "The Divine Comedy Build" !!!

On the upside, I've lost 8 lbs since starting the build, the wife's said I'm looking "Trim" WOO HOO!!!! wink.gif

I'm only a couple weeks off from firing up the AC now, then I can switch back to beer.. so things are looking up biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mleclair View Post

Read though the whole thread and was sad to see you moved away from your first. But, excited to see the next one for sure!

I only get sad every time I see an advertisement for a new movie.... one of the kids inevitably says "Oh.. that would have been great in the Theater". Then, and when I spend $60 to take the family to a multiplex now. mad.gif

Its one of those "You don't know what your missing" kinda of deals... Spent most of my adult life wanting a real theater room(like many of us)... I was nearly 50 before that was accomplished... now after having one, and really "experiencing" the movies at a different level, its almost becoming an obsession to get this one built.

The wife's and kids are even 100% behind this one, Not that they help.. but 100% behind it none the less...rolleyes.gif


Brad
post #729 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

I'm only a couple weeks off from firing up the AC now, then I can switch back to beer.. so things are looking up biggrin.gif
Brad

THAT'S a great milestone! biggrin.gif
post #730 of 772
Watching this...
post #731 of 772
Thread Starter 
Shipment from Monoprice:

photo DSC00633.jpg

Most of LV supplies in hand. DVI/HDMI/12 Ga CL/cat 5/6 etc..etc....

Need advice on XLR...

Up walls + across ceiling+ down walls+ ~10ft upfront, + ~20 ft in EQ room = ~ 75ft needed.

Monoprice sells this 75 footer for ~ $35 they say is balanced (anyone have experience with the monoprice XLR cables)
Running the Canare L-4E6S/ and DIYing the Neutrik will run ~ $50 for the same length (+trial and error with a solder gun rolleyes.gif )

(I cant find where either cable states its CL rated. anyone know?)

Or is there another option I'm Missing?

Also, is there a point/need in running additional RG6 or 59 to the screen wall if I run the XLR and speaker wire for the Subs. (still haven't bottomed out on the specific sub yet)

Thanks
Brad
post #732 of 772
Brad,

Looking forward to this new build unfolding.
(hey on one of your photos I think I even see that same truck that someone might have backed into during build 1?) :-)


As for your comments above:
- Somewhere on another thread I seemed to recall someone saying that: although Monoprice is usually excellent - their XLR cables sometimes need to be reworked (connector wiring issue) ?
- For your front end wiring ; I would certainly add a pair of the coax runs for maximum flexibility with future Subs(s)
post #733 of 772
Regarding the balanced wire - the option with the Canare wire and Neutrik connectors is about the best you can get. The connectors are very easy to solder reliably, so no worries there.

If you have the XLR cable run I would not bother running any coax for other signal wire. If you end up needing an RCA termination vs. XLR, inexpensive adapter cables are readily available.
post #734 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

(hey on one of your photos I think I even see that same truck that someone might have backed into during build 1?) :-)

Same but different, traded the last one in 3 days after the body guys fixed it.. Got the same black crew cab .. only newer... she didnt say a word... smile.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

Regarding the balanced wire - the option with the Canare wire and Neutrik connectors is about the best you can get. The connectors are very easy to solder reliably, so no worries there.

If you have the XLR cable run I would not bother running any coax for other signal wire. If you end up needing an RCA termination vs. XLR, inexpensive adapter cables are readily available.

Thank you .. I'll run a couple XLR then..
Found these pre-assembled .. 75 ft. for $55 (only a few $ more than the wire and connectors)
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/929241-REG/canare_caxmxf75brn_l4e6s_starquad_xlrm.html




While searching i did see a huge variation in the price of cables... but this was a Jaw dropper I just had to share eek.gifeek.gif
Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 7 XLR Balanaced Audio Interconnects Pair 6.0 Meter - $16,000 (not a typo)

http://www.amazon.com/Wireworld-Platinum-Eclipse-Biwired-Speaker/dp/B00CHSRKJW/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1373923288&sr=1-1

and these:

Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 7 Biwired Speaker Cable 6.0 Meters X 2 Cables New 7 Series - $48,500

http://www.amazon.com/Wireworld-Platinum-Eclipse-Biwired-Speaker/dp/B00CHSRKJW/ref=sr_1_1?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1373923288&sr=1-1

Dunno.. maybe their made from virgins rolleyes.gif
post #735 of 772
And here I thought gold was more valuable than copper !
Unless it's "virgin's copper" smile.gif
post #736 of 772
So I pulled up your one link above for the $48,500 wire and under the "Recommended For You" there was a Velodyne in-wall subwoofer for $919.7 BILLION dollars. I'd get free shipping, so not a bad deal! rolleyes.gif

http://www.amazon.com/CHRYSALIS-VELODYNE-IA-IWS1-6-5-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B003HKQFCC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_MI_4

I guess my browser cookies on Amazon must have "sucker" written all over them once you start looking at $50,000 sets of wire....
post #737 of 772
Hey man, great to see you not melting AND making progress. Lots of goodies from all over to help keep you making progress. I bet that Arizona weather has you missing the relatively cool Indiana summers. Bet you don't miss the 80-90% humidity though.

Maybe you have hit on a workout plans as well as construction if you can build your theater and loose weight as well. Nice that the wife notices!

Regards,

RTROSE
post #738 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

there was a Velodyne in-wall subwoofer for $919.7 BILLION dollars.
Don't forget to read the reviews. http://www.amazon.com/CHRYSALIS-VELODYNE-IA-IWS1-6-5-Inch-Subwoofer/product-reviews/B003HKQFCC/ref=olp_pr_see_all_top?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1
post #739 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

there was a Velodyne in-wall subwoofer for $919.7 BILLION dollars. .

OOPS!!!...... note to self: Disable "ONE CLICK BUYING"
post #740 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMcG View Post

So I pulled up your one link above for the $48,500 wire and under the "Recommended For You" there was a Velodyne in-wall subwoofer for $919.7 BILLION dollars. I'd get free shipping, so not a bad deal! rolleyes.gif

http://www.amazon.com/CHRYSALIS-VELODYNE-IA-IWS1-6-5-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B003HKQFCC/ref=pd_sim_sbs_MI_4

I guess my browser cookies on Amazon must have "sucker" written all over them once you start looking at $50,000 sets of wire....

After checking out what else that seller has for sale, the subwoofer is a very...um, out of place product.
post #741 of 772
Thread Starter 
Anyone else ever say: "WOW! That took longer than I thought it would"

Finished the outside of the "Box"; that's what my kids have been calling it anyway....

While talking to the inspector about what was going in the building I found he was an old audiophile so everything went fairly smooth.. smile.gif I only got knocked down one time for a couple of things on the electrical rough in...

photo DSC00673.jpg

photo DSC00664.jpg

Happy with the way it blended, My goal was to make it "NOT LOOK LIKE" an add on..

photo DSC00642.jpg

Couple of things to wrap up inside this weekend.. before I can start moving tools etc. into the shop portion...

Then I'll start building the Home Theater "in" the BOX... wink.gif

Its gonna be Soooooo nice not having to haul 1.6 million pounds of "Stuff" down stairs into a basement this time... that... and the A/C's working like a champ in there .. LIFE IS GOOD.......biggrin.gif

Stay tuned... Same Bat channel..

Brad
post #742 of 772
Looks classy! I like it. I agree that it ties into the existing house well.
post #743 of 772
I missed the 1st build so I am excited to follow along on the 2nd one. I know it will be stunning!
post #744 of 772
How's it going Brad? Hope you enjoyed the holidays! Any new progress for us here?
post #745 of 772
Thread Starter 
Happy New Year to ya Ben, thanks for the nudge.

I've been remiss with my updates, Its amazing how fast time can get away,, so over the last 3-4 months..... I have:

had epoxy put on the floor in the shop before I moved everything in(always wanted it, but always had too much crap in the previous shops to move out) and installed ~ 12 ft of unfinished cabinets from home depot.. (they will probably remain unfinished the rest of their existence)
photo DSC00702.jpg

Had one of these rolling work tables in the last house and wished I'd had 2, (because one was always full of crap) so a built a couple this time. They are exactly the same height so will slide together as one large work surface, which should be handy when it comes to frabic frames etc, ...

photo DSC00690.jpg

As far as actual theater progress.. I built 10 backer boxes for the 6 surrounds and 4 balancing subs but Im only going to use 2 balancing subs now . These were mounted with the DC04

photo DSC00700.jpg

received my 169$ drywall lift off of amazon.
Got the Clips and channel up.. ceiling was on a 16"x24" grid for the clips to handle the weight of the step ceiling.
Heres a picture from before the holidays, I managed to get all the OSB up during the couple of weeks I had off at Christmas..

photo DSC00722.jpg

But due tot he fact that I am the "Best" Worst planner.. I have to take several sheets back down to run a power bridge for the 2 20 amp outlets on the front wall (for the sub amps) so Im refusing to take pictures of negative progress:rolleyes:

and these showed up to provide some additional motivation..rolleyes.gif

photo DSC00717.jpg

all in all not great progress but moving in the right direction... Whats been different from this build and the last one is that the boys are both old enough to help.. trips to HD and lowes.. carry lumber, screw in osb..etc.. nothing better than watching the fruit of your loins unload 15 sheets of OSB for you.. biggrin.gif

Need Help /Advice

I've been planning to use control 4 again, but lately don't think I want to get tied into anything I must rely on a dealer for... so since I have to take down several sheets of OSB to run the power bridges, I'm going to change directions and can add more control wiring etc if needed...

Warning: I can wire a house top to bottom per code, but I know nothing about automation.. which is why I went control 4 in the first place.

I have been reading the automation threads and I think I have it boiled down to either Crestron or Insteon. and both approaches seem to have their good and bad points.

The way I figure i would need 2 grafix eye (like 3106's) if i went that route because Im already at 7 Zones and ~ 1800 watts before anything is done with the LED strips (which Ill need to do about 150Ft). and quite honestly the crestron stuff is a little intimidating for an old guy like me...
So that has me looking at building a system around the insteon products (which seem to have a simpler implementation)
I am willing to take the best path recommended by the forum and am open to other suggestions and thoughts.. and I appreciate all Input..

Brad
post #746 of 772
I'm a little confused. You said you don't want to have to rely on a dealer but then you listed Crestron as a possible choice. I was under the impression that they were the most dealer-centric of the automation programs, or at least they relied heavily on specialized programmers. Do they have a more simplified version nowadays?
post #747 of 772
Thread Starter 
I'm probably using bad terminology.. I was equating the Grafik Eye to Crestron.. from what I understand this has been the go to for most of the DIY group over the years..
post #748 of 772
Are you just looking for lighting control then and not component/environmental control as well?

And just wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

photo DSC00717.jpg
post #749 of 772
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BllDo View Post

Are you just looking for lighting control then and not component/environmental control as well?

And just wow.

I'm looking for lighting and component control in the theater.. no immediate plans to extend beyond the theater at this time.

Last theater I ran everything and wired switches as usual..had cat 5 in all the right locations.. and just wrote a check to the control 4 guy who hooked up the controllers replaced the switches with the Zigbee? wireless switches and set up the IR for the component control through their interface, (the IR stuff I don't think I have an issue with with one of the advanced remotes). I got software that let me set scenes and make adjustments etc.. some of the component IR commands through control 4 interface were flaky though.. for example on the slide volume on the Ipad if you touched it, it went to full volume.. really really scary.. they couldn't fix it so they had to disable that function on their interface. it would sometimes "lock up" and then 30 seconds later execute all the commands... Mostly what i did not like about it was that I had to call a control 4 rep every time i wanted to add something. So Id like to avoid this situation on this go around..
post #750 of 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by KNKKNK View Post

I'm looking for lighting and component control in the theater.. no immediate plans to extend beyond the theater at this time.

Last theater I ran everything and wired switches as usual..had cat 5 in all the right locations.. and just wrote a check to the control 4 guy who hooked up the controllers replaced the switches with the Zigbee? wireless switches and set up the IR for the component control through their interface, (the IR stuff I don't think I have an issue with with one of the advanced remotes). I got software that let me set scenes and make adjustments etc.. some of the component IR commands through control 4 interface were flaky though.. for example on the slide volume on the Ipad if you touched it, it went to full volume.. really really scary.. they couldn't fix it so they had to disable that function on their interface. it would sometimes "lock up" and then 30 seconds later execute all the commands... Mostly what i did not like about it was that I had to call a control 4 rep every time i wanted to add something. So Id like to avoid this situation on this go around..
Maybe iRule is what you'll need then.
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