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Benq w6000 - Page 68

post #2011 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjyap View Post

I had done the iris mod on the lamp module which cut the max light output to around 12ft/L and black looks acceptable to me. I want to try ND filter but most of the common ND2 filter cut half of the light. I'm looking for ND filter that cut the light around 25% but ND 1.5 filter is very expensive.

The iris mod is quite simple. Just get a aluminium foil and paint with matte black BBQ paint which is heat resistant. Then cut an oval shape and put it in front of the lamp module. A better mod that suppose to increase CR is to put the iris between the DLP chip and the lens but that would required opening up the projector.

Great stuff - thanks for that.

A few quick questions:

1. How big is the piece of foil, and how big is the hole ?

2. Do you open up the lamp compartment and just slide it in?

3. Any visible downside to doing this?
Why would placing between the chip & lens be better?

4. A camera snap would be great (but only if it's easy & quick!)

post #2012 of 2421
Does anyone know the spec for how many lumens the W6000 puts out in the normal/Eco mode? All I can find is 2500 lumens for the bright mode.
post #2013 of 2421
the mod with the aluminum foil i might try since i already have the fireplace black spray paint can. some picture instructions would be cool
post #2014 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman_451 View Post

Does anyone know the spec for how many lumens the W6000 puts out in the normal/Eco mode? All I can find is 2500 lumens for the bright mode.

Go look at the reviews from Projector Central and Projector Reviews.
post #2015 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolme View Post

I've been on the W5000 thread and noticed you posted about the CCA. My xy were correct when I finished yesterday although I didn't bother with gain yet but the results were disappointing, colors were off and the image was generally much dimmer. I'll do the measure & adjust tonight using the Gamut, Saturation, Brightness chart and see if I can get the Ys where they need to be. Do you have any tips as how to do all this and still have enough light output? This is indeed time consuming and I hope it will be worth it.

Coolme,
How do I get the CCA adjustments to "stick"? Do I have to "Apply CCA table" after each adjustment?
post #2016 of 2421
I installed a new W6000 2 days ago. The out of the box factory settings (Cinema, Dynamic & Standard) were all not very good. I changed the settings per below to improve the picture dramatically:

Brightness - 60
Contrast - 46
Color - 50
Tint - 0
Sharpness - 0
Black Level IRE - 7.5
Noise Reduction - 2
Detail Enhancement - 0
Luma - 1
Chroma - 1
Color Temp. - Normal
Gamma - 2.2
Brilliant Color - Off
Dynamic Black - On
Lamp - Economic

I started by loading the Cinema settings into User1 and then changed the settings mostly as per mjaudio (thanks mjaudio). However, the User Fine Tuning section on the menu is grayed out and not accessible to me. Am I doing something wrong? Does anyone know what I need to do to access User Fine Tuning?

I am very pleased thus far with my picture while viewing DVD's. However, when I watch high definition football or basketball on DISH, there is visible video noise which I can't seem to eliminate yet. When I am 12 feet from the 110 diagonal Stewart Studiotek 130 white screen, the visible noise is not very noticeable. However, the video noise is very obvious as you approach 6 feet from the screen. Does anyone have an idea as to what I must do to my settings to minimize this video noise?

There have been no issues with rainbows, iris problems or audio noise. I am very pleased with the W6000 with the exception that the video noise is greater than what I expected it to be.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can offer some suggestions on User Fine Tuning access or on video noise reduction.
post #2017 of 2421
brycov: Change chroma/luma to "0". One of those has a bigger impact, can't remember which one.

Edit: I think it's Luma, but try them both.
post #2018 of 2421
Sorry for the late reply. As my projector is ceilling mounted, it's hard to take down the lamp. The mod is very simple. Just take out the lamp module, cut the iris in oval shape and just put it in front of the lamp module.
LL
post #2019 of 2421
Hey guys, just got my W6000 setup to test out before I do the permanent install. Picture looks pretty awesome so far, sharpness is killer!

Do you guys have decent settings I can use as a starting point?

Should I get the Disney WOW disc? Is AVS disc just as good?

THANKS!!!
post #2020 of 2421
I redid my calibration this weekend after not being completely satisfied that I'd done my best the first time. I did a complete factory default reset prior to beginning. Found the White Balance in the Service Menu and just did the gray scale in there. It now has a pretty good gray scale in all the modes (in other words, global). Using the user modes I could then fine tune the gray scale that was done in the service menu. I still cannot figure out how to change the colors in CCA, so the colors are off. Anybody has any idea how to move the xy points around I'm all ears. I do all this with the Spider 2 and ColorHCFR.

I did match the colors using DVE, Spears and Munsel discs and the RGB filter that comes with DVE. All the colors are off, but they are all off together, if that makes sense. You do this in color management in the user mode, btw. You can change the saturation and luminance there, but not the tint or hue (xy). (I verified that by playing with the controls and watching ColorHCFR....the Y moves a great deal, but xy will not change no matter how bright or dim the color is.)

I will say my grayscale was off pretty badly prior to any gray scale calibration in all modes. The ISF modes are not too bad, but still need tweaking to get right. Generally, for me, the blue was way up and red was low in all modes. I say that because those of you that are trying to get correct PQ without adjusting the gray scale are basically hitting and missing.

I will go into the SM and write down my settings if it may help someone, although I don't think I would arbitrarily adjust mine without having some way of verifing what I was doing (with a meter.)
post #2021 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

I redid my calibration this weekend after not being completely satisfied that I'd done my best the first time. I did a complete factory default reset prior to beginning. Found the White Balance in the Service Menu and just did the gray scale in there. It now has a pretty good gray scale in all the modes (in other words, global). Using the user modes I could then fine tune the gray scale that was done in the service menu. I still cannot figure out how to change the colors in CCA, so the colors are off. Anybody has any idea how to move the xy points around I'm all ears. I do all this with the Spider 2 and ColorHCFR.

I did match the colors using DVE, Spears and Munsel discs and the RGB filter that comes with DVE. All the colors are off, but they are all off together, if that makes sense. You do this in color management in the user mode, btw. You can change the saturation and luminance there, but not the tint or hue (xy). (I verified that by playing with the controls and watching ColorHCFR....the Y moves a great deal, but xy will not change no matter how bright or dim the color is.)

I will say my grayscale was off pretty badly prior to any gray scale calibration in all modes. The ISF modes are not too bad, but still need tweaking to get right. Generally, for me, the blue was way up and red was low in all modes. I say that because those of you that are trying to get correct PQ without adjusting the gray scale are basically hitting and missing.

I will go into the SM and write down my settings if it may help someone, although I don't think I would arbitrarily adjust mine without having some way of verifing what I was doing (with a meter.)

That'd be much appreciated!

With my EyeOne awol, and having zero time to do a full calibration anyway, I wouldn't mind dialing in your settings out of interest.

Was trying to find out from your thread - What size & type is your screen, and what is your throw distance?

Cheers in advance...
post #2022 of 2421
A picture is worth a thousand words. The photo colors are not accurate, BTW. Had the camera set in tungsten lighting or something so it would be clear. Don't look at the photos and go, "Holy crap".....

First, I calibrated all the gray scales in the different modes in the service menu. (Actually I was only going to do one, then said, well why not hit them all.) It doesn't take a long time once you're rolling along. I'm not even sure if this is necessary. What it means to me though is that the PQ won't change much from setting to setting, if that makes sense. In fact, when I just went in to take these photos, somehow it was on "Cool", when it is should be on User 1 (which I renamed to BD). I didn't even notice.

So these are the "Color Temperature" settings in the Service Menu for the various modes:





Now I also calibrated the ISF gray scale: I believe I just did ISF Night and copied that the Day also (the menu is faded.....not sure why they didn't let it do that when not in an ISF mode):


You can see a few of them are very close. The ISF calibration is obviously not affected by the service menu level calibrations as similiar changes were made to each.

Now I go to the standard user menu and copied ISF Night to User 1. I rename User 1 to BD. Why don't I just use ISF Night you ask? Because with the user mode, I get the gray scale (and other settings) of ISF PLUS the ability to Fine Tune the Color Temp and also use Color Management. Using just ISF, I'd have to use CCA to make those adjustments and I DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE CCA.

So, first menu screen:


2nd screen:


And then the color temp tuning screen:


I did adjust the Color Management section also using the color filters with my eye. I realize this is not the correct way to do this, but I felt that if I couldn't get the colors right, I'd at least have them all match each other. So looking through the filters (red, blue and green) I adjusted the range and saturation of each so that it matched it's pri or sec counterpart, if that makes sense. In other words, the colors aren't right, but they are all wrong together.

Don't take any of the above as gospel. Like I said, just using those settings (with a 120" 1.1 gain screen at approx. 15') may not work for you. On a side note, I set the contrast according the the guide for dummies on the calibration forum. In order to get 10 ftlm (foot lamberts...whatever) I had to be in normal lamp mode. Eco mode only gave me about 8.5 ftl. I calibrated in normal mode and when I finished, I went back and forth, and left it in econo mode as I don't see much difference with my eye. The meter definately saw a difference.
post #2023 of 2421
i just got my w6000 last week and i love it. how do u guys get the ISF code?
post #2024 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

A picture is worth a thousand words....

First, I calibrated all the gray scales in the different modes in the service menu. (Actually I was only going to do one, then said, well why not hit them all.) It doesn't take a long time once you're rolling along. I'm not even sure if this is necessary. What it means to me though is that the PQ won't change much from setting to setting, if that makes sense. In fact, when I just went in to take these photos, somehow it was on "Cool", when it is should be on User 1 (which I renamed to BD). I didn't even notice.


Now I also calibrated the ISF gray scale: I believe I just did ISF Night and copied that the Day also (the menu is faded.....not sure why they didn't let it do that when not in an ISF mode):


You can see a few of them are very close. The ISF calibration is obviously not affected by the service menu level calibrations as similiar changes were made to each.



Thanks for that... but totally confused!

* How did you get to see and adjust the color temp settings for Warm, Cool, etc when they're not adjustable from either the SM or the regular menu?
I can't even see those settings as Color Temperature Fine Tuning / White Balance is grayed out on everything except ISF1 or ISF2.

* At any rate, if I go to ISF mode and enter your ISF White Balance settings (RED: +450 etc), it's VERY green. 450 for red and 395 for blue does seem incredibly low.


Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

Now I go to the standard user menu and copied ISF Night to User 1. I rename User 1 to BD. Why don't I just use ISF Night you ask? Because with the user mode, I get the gray scale (and other settings) of ISF PLUS the ability to Fine Tune the Color Temp and also use Color Management. Using just ISF, I'd have to use CCA to make those adjustments and I DON'T KNOW HOW TO USE CCA.

* There is no "User 1" Picture mode on the the first menu.
The only one that allows me to Load Settings is "Mid".

If I use Mid, and select "User 1" color temp and use those numbers (+44, +51, +39) again - it's very green. Those numbers do seem very severe.

* At any rate, how did you copy from ISF Night to User 1 ?

Am I missing something here?
post #2025 of 2421
Goodmorning. If those settings look way off on your setup, then obviously your (factory) grayscale is way different than mine.

In the SM, you have to go into one of the sub menus. I forget which one, but you will see those screens. You know, DLP.... etc.

Again, I'll say making any of those adjustments without a meter is hit or miss. I could never adjust that using just my eye. The meter is objective.

When you activate ISF, you only have User 1 available, as ISF Night and ISF Day took User 2 and User 3. Maybe yours is renamed Mid. I don't have a mid on mine, so not sure. Anyhow, it has the option to copy settings from any other mode. I'll post a screenshot I guess.
post #2026 of 2421
Can someone detail the ISF activation steps/process? I see the option but it's greyed out.

Any help would be appreciated.
post #2027 of 2421
A though re-reading of the User Manual (pages 29 & 30) helped me to figure out how to access the User Fine Tuning menu. When you are in the Color Temperature menu, if you select Warm, Normal or Cool, you will not be able to access User Fine Tuning (grayed out). To access User Fine Tuning, you must first select User1, User2 or User3 in the Color Temperature menu. When you do this, The User Fine Tuning menu is accessible (not grayed out).
post #2028 of 2421
in the Color temperature menu and for the mode of cool, warm, normal, lamp native and white balance how do you get the red gain, green gain, blue gain, red offset , green offset and blue offset to show? Thanks
post #2029 of 2421
^^^^
Those menus are in the Service Menu. (Info tab>Up>Down>Up> Down).

brycov,
Correct. And once you enable ISF you lose User2 and User3 because they become ISF Night and ISF Day.
post #2030 of 2421
I have exactly 13' 6" of throw space from wall to wall. I have a 106" diag. screen with a width of 92" that is almost 1 and a half inch thick. So really I only have 13' 4 1/2" throw. Factoring in the depth of the projector I think that I might have zero room for cables to stick out the back. It looks like the lens is recessed almost an inch. Can anyone take down their benq 6000 and measure from the back of the projector to the screen and tell me if I can use this projector with this throw? space for hdmi and power cable would be nice too.
post #2031 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by brycov View Post

A though re-reading of the User Manual (pages 29 & 30) helped me to figure out how to access the User Fine Tuning menu. When you are in the Color Temperature menu, if you select Warm, Normal or Cool, you will not be able to access User Fine Tuning (grayed out). To access User Fine Tuning, you must first select User1, User2 or User3 in the Color Temperature menu. When you do this, The User Fine Tuning menu is accessible (not grayed out).


Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

^^^^
Those menus are in the Service Menu. (Info tab>Up>Down>Up> Down).

brycov,
Correct. And once you enable ISF you lose User2 and User3 because they become ISF Night and ISF Day.

Much thanks!
post #2032 of 2421
Hi legierk,
I spent some time trying to understand the calibration tools with the Benq. I found relevant information in the W5000 thread with detailed explanations about the steps and procedures.
You may want to enter the ISF mode (Up/Down/Up/Down/Left/Right) and start there as all the controls are at one place, gamma, CCA, grayscale ...
Gamma is limited but I started with the CCA. In the measured fields for WRGB I used the AVS Rec 709 test patterns and measured the corresponding colors at 75% saturation for a start and for desired value I used a chart that I can post if you need it, and inputed the values for WRGB and YMC. I didn't use BC at all. After that you need to take measurements for every colors and get as close as possible to the reference values using the xy coordinates and Y for luminance in the desired values. You then do this for different saturation levels.
The grayscale can be adjusted via the gain and offsets, that's not too hard.
This is a summary, if you want me to elaborate just ask. It takes some time to understand how it works but it isn't very hard, just time consuming.
post #2033 of 2421
I just received mine this week, i will do a full calibration later on, but for the first 100+ hours, can some one point out what are the best settings to get a decent picture. Thanks
post #2034 of 2421
Coolme,
I definitely do want you to elaborate. I did search the W5000 thread, though not thoroughly I suppose, and came up empty handed.

I will actually be out of pocket for a week, but next weekend I will want to give CCA a shot. I do understand the chart:

Rec. 709
x y Y
R 0.6400 0.3300 0.2126
G 0.3000 0.6000 0.7152
B 0.1500 0.0600 0.0722
Y 0.4193 0.5053 0.9278
C 0.2246 0.3287 0.7874
M 0.3209 0.1542 0.2848
W 0.3127 0.3290 1.0000

Is that what you're talking about? So these are the desired values, right? Do you click "Apply CCA table" after you update each one? So, after you do that, do you input measured CCA values and it automatically adjusts the colors? Very confusing. I was making changes, but nothing was happening (as I watched the values in HCFR in real time).

Agreed, gray scale (white balance) is easy. I know now that black and white levels (brightness and contrast) have to be done BEFORE gray scale, and if you change them later, you have to recheck the grayscale as it will throw it off a little.

I found gamma to be very simple. 2.2, 2.4. Mine is set to 2.2 and I believe my measured gamma is 2.25 or something. Wish there was a 2.3 setting just to give some flexibility.

Any help you can provide wrt working with CCA would be appreciated.
post #2035 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post

Coolme,
I definitely do want you to elaborate. I did search the W5000 thread, though not thoroughly I suppose, and came up empty handed.

I will actually be out of pocket for a week, but next weekend I will want to give CCA a shot. I do understand the chart:

Rec. 709
x y Y
R 0.6400 0.3300 0.2126
G 0.3000 0.6000 0.7152
B 0.1500 0.0600 0.0722
Y 0.4193 0.5053 0.9278
C 0.2246 0.3287 0.7874
M 0.3209 0.1542 0.2848
W 0.3127 0.3290 1.0000

Is that what you're talking about? So these are the desired values, right? Do you click "Apply CCA table" after you update each one? So, after you do that, do you input measured CCA values and it automatically adjusts the colors? Very confusing. I was making changes, but nothing was happening (as I watched the values in HCFR in real time).

Agreed, gray scale (white balance) is easy. I know now that black and white levels (brightness and contrast) have to be done BEFORE gray scale, and if you change them later, you have to recheck the grayscale as it will throw it off a little.

I found gamma to be very simple. 2.2, 2.4. Mine is set to 2.2 and I believe my measured gamma is 2.25 or something. Wish there was a 2.3 setting just to give some flexibility.

Any help you can provide wrt working with CCA would be appreciated.

This is just a quick reply but yes these are the desired values for all colors at 100% saturation (someone recommended using 75% first). You have to input them in the desired values. For example Red would be x=640 y=330 and Y=212 (have fun inputting those number as the remote has no digits) and you press Apply CCA table. For measured values you just write down what HCFR is reporting the same way. I recommend doing the Measured values first. Once you've done this you can measure the color gamut, it will probably be off by a bit (especially green). This is where you'll have to tweak a bit. You have to correct all colors using the patterns on your disc. For each color you raise or lower the xyY values while taking continuous readings in HCFR to get as near as possible to the target value. It will take a couple of rounds to get everything right but every-time the difference gets smaller.

I will see if I can find the post from the W5000 thread as someone detailed the instructions there. There seems to be a deficit in green with those projectors that can't be corrected since you can't expand the gammut. Good luck and I'm sure things will get clearer for you.

Edit:
Forgot to say that Brightness is a relative value to the White level reference and you need a chart or calculate the value you will input for Y. Red for example should be 21.2% of the measured brightness of W. I will post the chart later as it's a real time saver since it gives you the value you need on the spot
post #2036 of 2421
Looking forward to that post. Thanks for the reply. I think, with a little hand holding, I can get this. Here's where I'm stuck:
"For each color you raise or lower the xyY values". I did this but saw no changes. Green is way off on my CIE chart. Maybe I just didn't do something right.

I understand the Y values...for example, .2126 is 21% for red, .7152 is 71% for green etc. Is that what you're talking about? I have to calculate each one based on MY measured Y value for white.

I'm off to see Clint Black here in east Texas. Look forward to more of your insight.
post #2037 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by legierk View Post
Looking forward to that post. Thanks for the reply. I think, with a little hand holding, I can get this. Here's where I'm stuck:
"For each color you raise or lower the xyY values". I did this but saw no changes. Green is way off on my CIE chart. Maybe I just didn't do something right.

I understand the Y values...for example, .2126 is 21% for red, .7152 is 71% for green etc. Is that what you're talking about? I have to calculate each one based on MY measured Y value for white.

I'm off to see Clint Black here in east Texas. Look forward to more of your insight.
The W5000 is a long thread. I think I mailed the person who did the post. I'll have to find his name first.

Every time you change one of the variables you have to press Apply CCA table and check the difference in HCFR. You do this until you're satisfied with what you see. If you read for example the coordinates of red in HCFR and you get x=0.61 and y=0.34 it means you have to raise the x value and lower the y value in the desired measured field for the appropriate color.

I uploaded the chart that will help you find your values more easily, especially for brightness. You first measure your white reference brightness in HCFR and note it in the chart (use the cd/m2 format if possible). It will tell you what the target brightness for each color is. All you have to do is lower or raise the brightness for the other colors until they match the target.
Example: My reading of White for Y at 100% brightness is 20. The chart shows a target luminance for red at 4.25 (20*21/100) If you measure your red at say 3.75 cd/m2 you increase the Y of red in the desired measure. Initially I used a desired measure of Red at 212. So you raise this number to say 250 and apply the CCA table and see where it gets you. Tweak up and down until it's close enough (Don't worry about being to precise in the beginning as when you change the coordinates for the other colors it will affect also the one you're working on, especially the brightness. It will stop fluctuating as much as you go on). Don't forget to apply the cca table every time you make a change. When you're done redo the contrast/brightness and the grayscale.

 

Gamut, Saturation, Brightness, dE Chart.zip 376.2724609375k . file
post #2038 of 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolme View Post

If you read for example the coordinates of red in HCFR and you get x=0.61 and y=0.34 it means you have to raise the x value and lower the y value in the desired measured field for the appropriate color.

I uploaded the chart that will help you find your values more easily, especially for brightness. You first measure your white reference brightness in HCFR and note it in the chart (use the cd/m2 format if possible). It will tell you what the target brightness for each color is. All you have to do is lower or raise the brightness for the other colors until they match the target.
Example: My reading of White for Y at 100% brightness is 20. The chart shows a target luminance for red at 4.25 (20*21/100) If you measure your red at say 3.75 cd/m2 you increase the Y of red in the desired measure. Initially I used a desired measure of Red at 212. So you raise this number to say 250 and apply the CCA table and see where it gets you. Don't forget to apply the cca table every time you make a change. When you're done redo the contrast/brightness and the grayscale.

Thanks a million. Involved spreadsheet, but I can make use of it with a little practice. Might be semantics here, but there are two areas within CCA...."Desired R, G, B, Y, M, C, W" and "Measured R, G, B, W". (Not sure why it doesn't have measured secondaries). To clarify, I make the changes in the "Desired" xy of each color and not "Measured"? If so, why would I change anything in measured at all? What's it for and what does it do?

Finally, the values in the fields (on the menu of the W6000) are absolute or arbitrary? What I'm asking is that if luminance for example says +125, that does not (or does) mean 125 cd/m2? Or is it just an arbitrary number that I need to lower or raise to get the desired (correct) measured reading? Hope that it not too confusing. I haven't gotten in there to play and probably won't be able to until next weekend.

Thanks for the tips thus far.
post #2039 of 2421
Anyone have a set of basic settings for those who don't want to enter the service menu? Do you guys always run sharpness at 0? I know with my Pio 5080 plasma everyone always ran sharpness as low as possible. Or is it just a preference thing? Thanks
post #2040 of 2421
It's basically preference. I set mine with tests discs. I found the Spears and Munsil (Bluray) is good for sharpness. You increase the sharpness until the thin black line begins to develop a white halo along the edge when looking at the sharpness pattern. The halo is noise. On mine, setting it to 2, the halo is almost completely gone, but raising it to 3 the halo is very noticable.

If I were watching a TV program (HD OTA) I would never see the difference (between 2 and 3 on the sharpness setting). With the BD test discs, its very apparent. All you need is a 1080p signal with straight lines over a solid background to check though. Many discs have a similiar pattern.

Making settings without a meter (which most folks don't have) or at the very least a test disc with some colored filters is kinda like being blind folded, spun around, and told to throw a ball into a bucket 20 feet away.
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