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Benq w6000 - Page 11

post #301 of 2419
I got exactly the same problem as you Elkhunter.
post #302 of 2419
nightfly85 -- The BenQ W5000 and W6000 are the only lower cost DLPs that offer the lens shift feature (with "0" offset = center of the screen).

mirageburbank -- You're kidding about the W30000, right? It's supposed to be a LED PJ and is gestimated to be priced in the stratosphere (around $15K - the same neighborhood as the Vivatek LED model, at least initially). BenQ could surprise us, but I'm not holding my breath. You are right though, it will be interesting to see what that model will be like.
post #303 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

nightfly85 -- The BenQ W5000 and W6000 are the only lower cost DLPs that offer the lens shift feature (with "0" offset = center of the screen).

mirageburbank -- You're kidding about the W30000, right? It's supposed to be a LED PJ and is gestimated to be priced in the stratosphere (around $15K - the same neighborhood as the Vivatek LED model, at least initially). BenQ could surprise us, but I'm not holding my breath. You are right though, it will be interesting to see what that model will be like.

I think BenQ knows what they are doing with regards to future technologies. There are on top of things as far as I am concerned..
post #304 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

nightfly85 -- The BenQ W5000 and W6000 are the only lower cost DLPs that offer the lens shift feature (with "0" offset = center of the screen).

I don't think you can get the W5000 down to the center of the screen. You can get it within the screen boundaries a bit, but I don't think all the way to the center.

mirageburbank -- You're kidding about the W30000, right? It's supposed to be a LED PJ and is gestimated to be priced in the stratosphere...[/quote]

When did that happen, last MSRP I heard for the W30000 was ~$7k.
post #305 of 2419
Well the W6000 seems like the best current most flexible (placement-wise) DLP in the market currently to replace my Epson 800 720p LCD. I've been wanting to get back into DLP; I remember the "pop" that even my old X1 had...just couldn't hang with the RBE so I got an LCD. But the LCD is soft and the pixel/panel alignment issues really suck. So until LED-DLP pjs come down in price, I am looking for a low cost, high-speed DLP with flexible placement and somewhat short throw. This baby mostly fits that bill.

I just need the price to come down 50% and for the iris issues to be resolved.

Is there a manual iris option on this baby? Didn't read anything about manual so my guess is no.
post #306 of 2419
7K for the W30000? That would be a treat! Surely that can't be right when the only other DLP LED out there is 15k.
post #307 of 2419
I've got one of these en route...is there a particular mount that is favored for this pj?

Is there any advantage to shelf mounting so the lens sits in the center of the screen versus using an inverted mount wherein the lens would be at the top of the image?

Thanks to the thread for all the input to this point. I was thinking about the HW-15 thanks to Loganross' side by side comparison but was ultimately swayed by getting this baby for a great price and the extra horsepower.

I had read in other threads that Art's review was somewhat tepid but after reading it myself, I saw it as far more positive than some who had posted reservations based on his findings. Ultimately it seems to get down to the iris'- audible and less than stellar in execution. My viewing environment is sub-optimal for blacks- The wall that the projector resides on is light in color and a black level killer while the screen wall is black so optimizing contrast is not a priority for me.

I live in Manhattan and my apartment is on the street side so there's always noise coming in from the outside and it has never bothered me. I consider myself largely insensitive to ancillary noise so if the iris buzz gets to me, I'm certain it would be a problem for just about anyone. I will dutifully report in the next week.

Cheers,

Dino
post #308 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizwip View Post

I've got one of these en route...is there a particular mount that is favored for this pj?

Is there any advantage to shelf mounting so the lens sits in the center of the screen versus using an inverted mount wherein the lens would be at the top of the image?

Thanks to the thread for all the input to this point. I was thinking about the HW-15 thanks to Loganross' side by side comparison but was ultimately swayed by getting this baby for a great price and the extra horsepower.

I had read in other threads that Art's review was somewhat tepid but after reading it myself, I saw it as far more positive than some who had posted reservations based on his findings. Ultimately it seems to get down to the iris'- audible and less than stellar in execution. My viewing environment is sub-optimal for blacks- The wall that the projector resides on is light in color and a black level killer while the screen wall is black so optimizing contrast is not a priority for me.

I live in Manhattan and my apartment is on the street side so there's always noise coming in from the outside and it has never bothered me. I consider myself largely insensitive to ancillary noise so if the iris buzz gets to me, I'm certain it would be a problem for just about anyone. I will dutifully report in the next week.

Cheers,

Dino

Actually, it was the visible noise that killed it for me. There was such a difference in detail/clarity on film type movies (Mummy 3 for example) that the HW-15 won hands down. Glad I could be of help though.
post #309 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by loganross View Post

Actually, it was the visible noise that killed it for me. There was such a difference in detail/clarity on film type movies (Mummy 3 for example) that the HW-15 won hands down. Glad I could be of help though.

A lot of noise comes from improper setting of Sharpness. Some projectors have nigher native sharpness settings than others. Perhaps this was part of the difference. Did you try turning down the sharpness on the W6000 to see if it helped? Some PJ's are overly sharpened out of the box, which adds a lot of video noise.

Dan
post #310 of 2419
i have just replaiced my w5000 (firmware 2,01)isf calibreded wiht a sim2 d80e. I have been very pleast with this unit. I dont think there was noise in the picture. but after i got the d80e ,there are lesser noise, with more light output. More light output on the w5000 increased the image noise , in bright scenes. But still, its a killer for the price, with perfect colors
post #311 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by loganross View Post

Actually, it was the visible noise that killed it for me.

Hmm...I'll have to see how much that is an issue as well although in reading your posts I'm sure you can see why I thought it was the audible noise from the iris that was the deal breaker.

In the HW-15 thread you wrote:

"It was a tough decision, but because I can hear the Iris electronics in the W6000 and it is very very distracting to me, it is going back tomorrow."

"I still have the Benq W6000 but it is likely to go back on monday for ONE key reason - because I can hear the high pitched tone made by the iris electronics."

And earlier in this thread...

"For me the issue remains the sound of the dynamic IRIS which I may hear and others wont."

And in another thread: "My biggest issue with the W6000 is the audible noise referenced in the projector central review."

Dino
post #312 of 2419
The high pitch sound from the dynamic iris is freaking annoying! even with the volume cranked up i can clearly hear it

Anyway, i just turned the iris off and got rid of the sound, and the picture is still amazing
post #313 of 2419
dizwip,
That's quite lawyerly of you - the quotes and all

The issue is I have been posting in two threads - one for the sony and one for the W6000 - each in a different forum (under $3k and over 3k). Therefore forgive my inconsistency. Here is what I wrote after my last bout of testing - on the 27th of September - in the Sony thread:

----------------------------------->
"Did some more testing last night. I am not sure if it is the excess image noise of the W6000 - its really really noticeable, but (watching Mummy 3), the HW15 has far more detail. Shocking since Benq is known for sharpness. This difference shows itself in more complex scenes - up close scenes are not as much of an issue.

On the other hand, the W6000 picture was smoother and motion was handled better. I really enjoyed watching the W6000. It was a tough decision, but because I can hear the Iris electronics in the W6000 and it is very very distracting to me, it is going back tomorrow.

The HW-15 is not out of the woods yet, I will test it against the Infocus SP8602 shortly and my final selection will be made. The Infocus is more expensive (although less than the RS15). It also has a 5 year warranty and all infocus models seem to have a great rep.

Bottom line, the HW15 is a great machine and may very well be the one I stay with.

PS, there are enough lumens on the HW15 to watch sports with ambient light. Keep in mind that in my setup I am talking about high-hats pointing down - not giant windows opposite the screen."
--------------------------------->
post #314 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by s0ad View Post

The high pitch sound from the dynamic iris is freaking annoying! even with the volume cranked up i can clearly hear it

Anyway, i just turned the iris off and got rid of the sound, and the picture is still amazing

Tell me about it!
post #315 of 2419
So there is no confusion, the w6000 went back the day before yesterday. The reason was two fold: Image noise and IRIS audible noise. Its too bad as I really liked the lumens and lens shift joystick of the w6000
post #316 of 2419
is the same thing that plagued the W5000 before the firmware updates.

Hopefully they can fix this and the iris noise. This really seems like a great projector otherwise.

Hushbox anyone.
post #317 of 2419
Thanks for the update Logan and I was curious about the 8602 as well but got my unit for a good price and couldn't rationalize the possibility of spending twice that for IF.

Also, I hope you didn't take my quoting too seriously- I was breaking chops a bit and you seem to get that but I do apologize if you thought I was calling you out in any way. The last thing I want is any trouble with someone who's local and your feedback was instrumental in pointing out the downsides of this pj.

My unit should be there this afternoon and I can't wait to set it up...my only other consideration would have been an RS-10 but JVC is dragging their feet on releasing the handful of units they have left.

Is there a particular mount that anyone would recommend for the 6000? I could flush mount under a shelf at the top of the screen or build a shelf at screen's center.

Dino
post #318 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by dizwip View Post

Thanks for the update Logan and I was curious about the 8602 as well but got my unit for a good price and couldn't rationalize the possibility of spending twice that for IF.

Also, I hope you didn't take my quoting too seriously- I was breaking chops a bit and you seem to get that but I do apologize if you thought I was calling you out in any way. The last thing I want is any trouble with someone who's local and your feedback was instrumental in pointing out the downsides of this pj.

My unit should be there this afternoon and I can't wait to set it up...my only other consideration would have been an RS-10 but JVC is dragging their feet on releasing the handful of units they have left.

Is there a particular mount that anyone would recommend for the 6000? I could flush mount under a shelf at the top of the screen or build a shelf at screen's center.

Dino

No problem. Check with AVS, I do not believe the Infocus is near 2x the W6000
post #319 of 2419
Went to see the BenQ W6000 today. Had along my wife also to evaluate DLP vs LCD possibly DILA etc.

Very bright image on a 120" screen. Overall I was very impressed and really liked the bright picture with good depth. Black level wasn't super impressive but it didnt bother me as the picture was so natural and life like. I've discovered that I prefer a very bright imager rather than the ultimate black level.

Earlier same day I also looked at the Mitsubishi HC7000 LCD-projector on a grey screen. Very nice picture, amazing black level, however I really felt it lacked some punch and brightness especially compared to the Benq W6000 that I looked at 20 mins later in a different store.

Last week I looked at the Optoma HD20 and HD82/8200.

So in my view comparing these models:

Benq W6000: Bright very nice picture, very good contrast, however a little noise and I noticed the rainbow effect in high contrast scenes.

HD82: Very pleasing picture, overall my preference at the moment. I actually didn't notice any rainbow effect on the optoma at all. I did miss some more brightness from the optoma - wish the Benq had a faster color wheel speed because then it would be a no brainer for me.

Mits hc7000: good contrast and black level, but on the grey screen they used I felt the image was too dark.

Button line for me and my wife is, we really like the DLP picture and brightness is important. Problem is rainbows on the Benq Does anyone really know what speed color wheel they use?

Alternatively I should use a smaller screen with the HD82 but as far as I can calculate I would not get more than 16 fl on a 100" screen with a throw range of around 15-16 feet.

Anyways, thats my impression on the Benq W6000. Summing up I am actually very close to accepting the few rainbows in exchange for the super bright high contrast picture it delivers.
post #320 of 2419
How does the w6000 compare to the w20000?
post #321 of 2419
Thanks for your review.

In regards to the Benq W6000 and noise was it image or sound or both. I can't help but wonder if it is similar to the W5000 in both and if so I could live with it very easily.

Thanks
post #322 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirageburbank View Post

Thanks for your review.

In regards to the Benq W6000 and noise was it image or sound or both. I can't help but wonder if it is similar to the W5000 in both and if so I could live with it very easily.

Thanks

Image noise. I didnt notice any sound "noise" from any of the projectors mentioned really.
post #323 of 2419
I've spent about four hours watching this projector with hd-dvds- Eastern Promises, U-571, Seabiscuit and the timeless classic Blades of Glory.

Often when I've read a fair amount about a projector and then had a chance to see it, I find the criticisms to be overdone. This is not to say they are off base, rather, I just figured that I'm no videophile and simply less discerning than those who know and may notice a lot more of what to look for in an image and are more sensitive to things that could be considered problematic. Conversely, when praise is heaped on one pj versus another I often can't tell an appreciable difference between the two and usually wonder how incremental improved performance is to my eyes.

I have to say that I've everything I read on this thread regarding the image held true for me. Sure enough, it throws a very bright impressive image and if it hasn't been noted, the ansi contrast impressed me especially since my lighting control is sub-optimal i.e. light walls behind the seating and projector. I am throwing onto a Stewart Firehawk, G2 material, 16:9, 100" and the throw distance is roughly 12' for now so I'm at the closest end of the zoom.

The colors are deep and saturated, reminiscent of my Marantz 12s4 but with a lot more pop albeit less "film like" in not necessarily a bad way. The projector is razor sharp and I found the user settings to be off, giving the image a yellow sheen that I found awful.

I tweaked the standard settings to my liking and put the bulb on economy which is more than bright. I did not hear the iris, sitting four feet away from it but I disclaimed earlier that I'm not particularly susceptible to being bothered by such a thing although there was definitely no high pitched whirring coming out of my unit.

Onto the image noise- I tried dialing down the sharpness to see if it would make a difference but lowering the sharpness definitely detracted from the image once it dropped below I believe 3 while the preset had it at 4 (don't quote me on this).

As for the image noise itself- there is some no question. Most of the time I didn't notice unless I was looking for it, at other times it seemed non-existent and then, at one point in U-571 it was really noticeable for a few seconds...noise that was not of the mosquito variety you'd see on a black and white television but noise with some notable blue in it. It lasted a few seconds and they cut closer and it was gone. When they panned back again it was there but I did not see it thereafter in U-571 or any of the other films. This is by no means a deal breaker for me and overall, I'm very, very impressed with the image's "personality," and the look of a dlp.

There is impressive depth, impressive colors and the reds looked better than I've seen in awhile. I've been using a Mits 4900 for awhile- hardly a reference projector but a very sharp lcd that put out close to 700 lumens in best mode on a new bulb.

I also had a Infocus 777 that I kept in my friend's office and I found the BenQ an improvement over this which surprised me. It appeared brighter and sharper while the 777 put out a smoother image with more pop than the Marantz. The Infocus always seemed to cast this greyish sheen on the image that gave it a film like quality but I have to admit it kind of annoyed me at times. Image depth on the 777 was similar to the BenQ and far superior to the Marantz and the Mits.

This projector may be less "film like" than most because of its inherent qualities that draws prospective buyers. HD material has an etched look to it that I like, super deep and accurate colors to my eyes which I should disclaim- I'm not color blind or anything but I've got a good friend who is a veteran editor and owner of a post production company who detects color inaccuracy that I would never spot.

A couple of months ago, I went to a screening at Goldcrest which is supposed to be a reference screening room for editors. They used a barco dlp (don't know the model) and were throwing onto a Stewart AT screen and running uncompressed 1080p over component, roughly 2 terabytes worth for the 100 minute feature. The colors seemed similar to me but the whites were "hotter" on the benq but not screamy...the barco also appeared to cast a greyish hue that I would ascribe to watching film.

My post production friend ended up taking the Marantz 12S4 home with him after I got it in early '08 and this did not surprise me. It is a classy projector that throws a smooth, effortless image. As Loganross mentioned earlier regarding the HW-15 vs. the BenQ, he quoted Art at projectorreviews who said the Sony threw a more "refined" picture. I could definitely see how this would be the case although I would not construe it as a knock on the Benq per se.

I'm sure there are smoother images out there but something about this pj wows me when I turn it on. It's like a sedan with a roadster's mentality- a ton of horsepower, great acceleration but you will feel the bumps in the road now and again. I can certainly live with this but I would still love to see the Sony and the litany though I can't imagine regretting keeping this baby so long as it plays nice.

Dino
post #324 of 2419
Interested in this projector. I looked at the projector calculator on one of the sites, but it did not seem correct for this projector. My current stand/mount is about 14 to 15 ft away projecting to a 120" diag Dalite screen -- will this projector handle at this distance? I cannot go further than 15 ft

Thanks very much
post #325 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumCosmos View Post

Interested in this projector. I looked at the projector calculator on one of the sites, but it did not seem correct for this projector. My current stand/mount is about 14 to 15 ft away projecting to a 120" diag Dalite screen -- will this projector handle at this distance? I cannot go further than 15 ft

Thanks very much

For a 120" screen 14' 2" is the minimum.
post #326 of 2419
The ads and posts I have seen for the W6000 have really caught my attention to be the replacement for my now aging Optoma H76. I find many of the comments in here to be very interesting. The increase in light is just about right for the increase in lamp power alone, so it is not a big surprise. Lamp power should not directly effect contrast at all. I work in movie post as well, and I have seen the exact same projector with bulbs ranging from 3000 to 6000 watts. The peak white level and black level change directly together, maintaining the same contrast ratio. On the other hand, using a brighter lamp and closing down a well designed "cat's eye" iris will drop the black level more than the white level making greater static contrast. Using a dynamic iris can give HUGE dynamic full on to full off contrast numbers, but I am not a big fan of that technology yet, as most of the units I have seen with this show a fair amount of image pumping. If any part of the screen is bringht, the iris needs to open up, so the black level everywhere else raises as well. And that is a perfect system, if it mis tracks or over shoots, the errors can be bad. A manually adjustable fixed iris is my favorite option allowing the user to decide on the trade off of contrast versus peak light output.

I will not judge this projector until I actually see one myself, but the image noise level comments also sound interesting. There is a direct link between the display bandwidth and how much noise from the source will be visible. A projector that can display even the tiniest details will also show up every flaw in the source. I still really like the picture from my old H76, the 720P engine and oixel works scaler system give outstanding results with virtually every source I throw at it. Even full 1080P looks great, but I do know it is hiding the finest details since it has about 1/2 the pixels on screen, about 70% each way. The trade off being that standard def looks better than on most 108 pj's. It is very tempting to stack the two for the best of both worlds. My screen is 92 inch with the main seating at about 12 foot. This room was set up around the 720 P projector and works well.

My PJ started at 1000 lumens and hit 18 FL peak when new. It has 1500 hours on the bulb and is down to 8 FL now, less than 1/2 light. 2500 lumens is overkill, but should allow for a great picture still at 2000+ hours. I just may have to use an ND filter to dim it when new. It is sure easier to get rid of light than to try and make more. I struggle with getting light on D-Cinema projectors almost every week. I always spec the next bigger lamp than the charts recomend to allow some fudge factor in the specs and alignment.

I really want to see one of these in person. The complaints I have read do not sound like deal breakers. Does it let you lock the iris? in how many different positions? how well does it scale SD/720 content? Does the case leak any light? My H76 is nearly perfect light tight, this made it win big over most of the competition back when I got it. I currently have a 5X color wheel and see no rainbow issues, I think this is rated the same. Does the HDMI EDID properl report 1080P 24 to the source? My H76 can display 24P properly, but since it does not report it, both my Dish box and Blu Ray default to 1080P 60 and will not try 24P. It is a toss up whether the picture is better at 1080 or 720 from the source, the scaler in the H76 is as good as or better than the Dish box or BLu Ray I have now. I do change the Dish to 720P for sports in 720 as the true 60 fps native rez rocks. How weel does the Benq handle true 720P 60? Upscaled does not always look any better than native 720.

Sorry for the long post, this is a big purchase on my budget, and I want the best I can afford. The Benq sure looks like a huge hit for the price point.
post #327 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by GXM View Post

The ads and posts I have seen for the W6000 have really caught my attention to be the replacement for my now aging Optoma H76. I find many of the comments in here to be very interesting. The increase in light is just about right for the increase in lamp power alone, so it is not a big surprise. Lamp power should not directly effect contrast at all.

All else equal, that's true, contrast is the same. But since everything is brighter, black level is worse, sometimes appearing significantly worse. And I think people have a tendency to equate the two.

Quote:


I work in movie post as well, and I have seen the exact same projector with bulbs ranging from 3000 to 6000 watts. The peak white level and black level change directly together, maintaining the same contrast ratio. On the other hand, using a brighter lamp and closing down a well designed "cat's eye" iris will drop the black level more than the white level making greater static contrast.

Yeah, it made a pretty big difference on my W5000, can't remember if it was closer to 50 or 100% improvement.

Quote:


Using a dynamic iris can give HUGE dynamic full on to full off contrast numbers, but I am not a big fan of that technology yet, as most of the units I have seen with this show a fair amount of image pumping. If any part of the screen is bringht, the iris needs to open up, so the black level everywhere else raises as well.

Yes, that's the tricky bit. Good implementations are out there (the W5000 was pretty good, Planar's is better). But there surely are plenty of bad implementations too.

Quote:


And that is a perfect system, if it mis tracks or over shoots, the errors can be bad. A manually adjustable fixed iris is my favorite option allowing the user to decide on the trade off of contrast versus peak light output.

IMO, without native/static CRs in the 100k's or greater, you need both. The JVCs would have slaughtered everyone even more if they'd had a good DI on them.

Quote:


I will not judge this projector until I actually see one myself, but the image noise level comments also sound interesting. There is a direct link between the display bandwidth and how much noise from the source will be visible. A projector that can display even the tiniest details will also show up every flaw in the source.

I remember having similar discussions with my W5000. I had one with the original "bad" firmware, and I still think there was nothing wrong with it, I don't think it actually made noise worse, I think it just didn't hide it as much as other projectors. But the later firmware did change the sharpness control, and you had to turn sharpness up higher to get the same result with the final firmware.

Quote:


My PJ started at 1000 lumens and hit 18 FL peak when new. It has 1500 hours on the bulb and is down to 8 FL now, less than 1/2 light. 2500 lumens is overkill, but should allow for a great picture still at 2000+ hours.

Just for some perspective, you don't specify screen, but with a unity gain screen, 18ftL on that size is only 500 Lumens. 8 ftL is 220 Lumens. That's about normal for a PJ spec'd at 1000 lumens. Unless you're lighting very large and/or AT screens, 700 or so real Lumens when new is good for long life.

Quote:


I really want to see one of these in person. The complaints I have read do not sound like deal breakers. Does it let you lock the iris? in how many different positions?

AFAIK it lets you disable DynamicBlack (the dynamic iris), the adjustable iris is separate. The problem is, IMO even the W5000's black level was not acceptable in a darkened HT without DynamicBlack enabled and the manual iris set to 0. If the W6000 is exactly the same, but brighter, it would be even worse.

The W5000 struggled to hit much over 1000:1 static/native CR. I think I got mine to maybe 1500 with some less than optimal settings.

Quote:


Sorry for the long post, this is a big purchase on my budget, and I want the best I can afford. The Benq sure looks like a huge hit for the price point.

FWIW, on a 96" screen I would look for something more in the 1000 Lumen (spec) class, especially given that IMO the W5000 had plenty of light output capability for reasonably sized screens (my screen is a 110x46 1.16 gain AT screen). But that's just me.
post #328 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post


FWIW, on a 96" screen I would look for something more in the 1000 Lumen (spec) class, especially given that IMO the W5000 had plenty of light output capability for reasonably sized screens (my screen is a 110x46 1.16 gain AT screen). But that's just me.


Stranger........ what if you were trying to light up a 150" screen?
post #329 of 2419
Or a 133" Dalite Hi-Power?
post #330 of 2419
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiHoStevo View Post

Stranger........ what if you were trying to light up a 150" screen?

Well if we assume that's a 150" wide scope screen (and a lens is used ), you'd basically 1000 Lumens, so figure 1500 or so new ideally, assuming unity gain. That's well into "fun" (read quite possibly expensive) territory.

To me, that screams InFocus, like an IN83 or SP8602. Digital will disagree with me, but based on the reviews so far, I don't believe the W6000 can do that calibrated. Let me rephrase that, Digital will disagree with me on the necessity/desirability to calibrate to D65.

I've often wished I had room for a wider screen, at the same time though, I've been thankful I don't, because that would likely push me into "heavy iron" territory of Sim2, DP, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bronco70 View Post

Or a 133" Dalite Hi-Power?

It might not be obvious but 133" is actually quite a bit smaller than 150", even with unity gain that size would only "need" about 800 Lumens. But if you can get the placement right (projector close to head level) then a HP makes things relatively easy, it would basically cut that in half I believe, 400Lumens or so. AFAIK, almost all the popular projectors would handle a 133" HP without breaking a sweat.
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