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Official Cary Cinema 11a/11v Owner's Thread - Page 64

post #1891 of 1969
CWT thanks. Here is the strange thing. My previous non-blu ray Oppo dvd (dv-98) had no problem passing pcm or DSD to the Cary from SACDs which leads me to believe the problem lies with the Oppo. The only reason this matters is I do like to convert the pcm stream to surround and you obvioulsy can't do that with the DSD stream. At least it is good to know that it only appears to be a software issue. I have until next week to return the Oppo to get a full return and I would rather not as it is otherwise excellent.

Have you upgraded your Cary to 1.4? Thanks. Jim
post #1892 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williamson View Post

CWT thanks. Here is the strange thing. My previous non-blu ray Oppo (dv-98) had no problem passing pcm or DSD to the Cary from SACDs which leads me to believe the problem lies with the Oppo. The only reason this matters is I do like to convert the pcm stream to surround and you obvioulsy can't do that with the DSD stream. At least it is good to know that it only appears to be a software issue. I have until next week to return the Oppo to get a full return and I would rather not as it is otherwise excellent.

Have you upgraded your Cary to 1.4? Thanks. Jim

You could well be right Jim ;the oppo outputs sacd lpcm at 24/88.2 not full bandwidth 24/176 or somesuch and the cary may not take that bit depth sampling rate explicitly ?? Ide contact cary to be sure . Quite a few firmwares ago they enabled 24/192 so it may be a case of that activation

No 1.4 board for me ; pops very rarely bother me after I had the new 1.3a revision hdmi board retrofitted . And the 95 with its 2 hdmi's gives even less reason
post #1893 of 1969
When I purchase an HD movie from Verizon FiOS the Cary comes up as 2.0 - hence no sub or surrounds work. How can I chang it to 3/2/1 - I can change it to 7.1 all digital but want it to come up in the 3/2.1 position - thoughts?

Thanks,
J
post #1894 of 1969
Jason if I had to guess I would say you can't do that because it is not in 5.1 to begin with but only in stereo. Thanks.
post #1895 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williamson View Post

Jason if I had to guess I would say you can't do that because it is not in 5.1 to begin with but only in stereo. Thanks.

Jim, I guess I find it difficult to believe that a HD movie is not in 5.1 - however - I can ask Verizon or do some googling on the topic.

Thanks,
Jason
post #1896 of 1969
I too have tried to set my Oppo 93 to send PCM to my 11a. I set the associated 11a HDMI input to PCM rather than bitstream in accordance with the Cary manual. The 93 displays SACD PCM, but the 11a displays DSD. Being able to link with PCM is important because, as I understand it, DSD does not carry information for bass management unless the disc has a .1 channel, whereas PCM carries that information without a separate .1 channel. Few SACDs have a .1 channel.

db
post #1897 of 1969
I copied the above post and emailed it to Cary and Oppo. I got an almost immediate reply from Oppo telling me the problem had been identified as a logic error in the C11a firmware and was being addressed. Shortly thereafter I got a reply from Cary telling me essentially the same thing, thanking Oppo for the loan of a 93 to work with, and that a future firmware release will fix the problem. I was impressed both companies were so responsive.

db
post #1898 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

I copied the above post and emailed it to Cary and Oppo. I got an almost immediate reply from Oppo telling me the problem had been identified as a logic error in the C11a firmware and was being addressed. Shortly thereafter I got a reply from Cary telling me essentially the same thing, thanking Oppo for the loan of a 93 to work with, and that a future firmware release will fix the problem. I was impressed both companies were so responsive.

db

Goodwork db ; just like oppo to go the extra mile with the loaner and to see cary hasnt given all its resources to the 12

I wonder if this means we'll be able to apply pl2x to a sacd pcm stream ?? Intrigued my War of the worlds sacd may benefit
post #1899 of 1969
I actually started this discussion with Oppo last summer and they told me they were shipping a bdp-93 to Cary to fix the problem. It is good to see that it will be resolved. I am frankly amazed at Oppo's customer service that they would go to all this trouble for someone that spent only $500 on one of their products. They have a customer for life!

What is strange is the my old Oppo (98) had no problem with the Cary so I assumed it was an Oppo issue.

Once it is fixed you will be able to use PL2x on the PCM output. As I said it worked great with the Old Oppo.
post #1900 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

I copied the above post and emailed it to Cary and Oppo. I got an almost immediate reply from Oppo telling me the problem had been identified as a logic error in the C11a firmware and was being addressed. Shortly thereafter I got a reply from Cary telling me essentially the same thing, thanking Oppo for the loan of a 93 to work with, and that a future firmware release will fix the problem. I was impressed both companies were so responsive.

db

Same type of problem with the DVDO Edge VP, however this was not entirely Cary's fault. I struggled for two years to make them play together and finally AnchorBay nailed it based on my error log files. I am now using another BDP but the C11a still struggles to lock on. As previously said, the higher equipment cost the more problems you will get. A USD 500,- AVR plays flawlessly - the whole HDMI implementation is just sad....
post #1901 of 1969
I followed up with Cary to see what the status was on the software fix to allow the Oppo to pass PCM (instead of DSD) to the 11a. Unfortunately this is the response I got:

"We still have engineering exploring this issue but at this time it does not look like this will be doable. The 88.2kHz PCM causes some other issues which we are trying work out."

Doesn't look like they intend or are able to fix.
post #1902 of 1969
Jim,

That really is a sad state of affairs. I suppose I could give up HDMI and go back to coax, but that eliminates my reason for replacing my trouble-free Proceed PAV/PDSD with the Cary 11a. When I bought the 11a, I was unaware DSD did not offer bass management absent a 0.1 channel; shame on me. But Oppo offers a work around with PCM that the 11a can't process; shame on Cary. Could it be that the depth for digital technology is just too shallow at Cary?

db
post #1903 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

Jim,

That really is a sad state of affairs. I suppose I could give up HDMI and go back to coax, but that eliminates my reason for replacing my trouble-free Proceed PAV/PDSD with the Cary 11a. When I bought the 11a, I was unaware DSD did not offer bass management absent a 0.1 channel; shame on me. But Oppo offers a work around with PCM that the 11a can't process; shame on Cary. Could it be that the depth for digital technology is just too shallow at Cary?

db

Unfortunately, yes. I love my SLP-05 tube pre-amp and keep hoping that the 11/12 processors will be as good. Unfortunately, I do not see that happening in the near future.
post #1904 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williamson View Post

"We still have engineering exploring this issue but at this time it does not look like this will be doable. The 88.2kHz PCM causes some other issues which we are trying work out."

Doesn't look like they intend or are able to fix.

The person that trusts the manual is in for a shock Jim The 12 is the same no doubt; very dissapointing..

''sample rates - 44.1 ;48;88.2;96;192khz''
post #1905 of 1969
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbphd View Post

Jim,

That really is a sad state of affairs. I suppose I could give up HDMI and go back to coax, but that eliminates my reason for replacing my trouble-free Proceed PAV/PDSD with the Cary 11a. When I bought the 11a, I was unaware DSD did not offer bass management absent a 0.1 channel; shame on me. But Oppo offers a work around with PCM that the 11a can't process; shame on Cary. Could it be that the depth for digital technology is just too shallow at Cary?

db

Unfortunately , this is par for the course for Cary in my experience with them.
post #1906 of 1969
I just switched from a BDP-83 to the BDP-93. I am now using the dual HDMI output feature of the BDP-93. I see that the Cary 11a has a setup option to disable the forwarding of audio data over HDMI. Since I now longer have an HDMI output from the Cary 11a, is there any sonic benefit to disabling the "Hdmi Audio Out" in the setup menus?
post #1907 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by merge03 View Post

I just switched from a BDP-83 to the BDP-93. I am now using the dual HDMI output feature of the BDP-93. I see that the Cary 11a has a setup option to disable the forwarding of audio data over HDMI. Since I now longer have an HDMI output from the Cary 11a, is there any sonic benefit to disabling the "Hdmi Audio Out" in the setup menus?

In the sense that it would stop any incorrect edid coming back from a secondary display telling the 93 to select a lossy instead of a lossless bitstream ; yes merge03 ;but thats not your case .

If your just feeding one display with hdmi video but theres no advantage as the cary is still receiving audio and video on that hdmi 2 [ and this is timed with the video clock in the oppo] ;its just not activating its repeater to get the displays edid

Another wrinkle is the consequence of 720p minimum being required for hdmi to send lossless audio in the blanking intervals of the video ie your oppos hdmi 2 ; any lower resolution and theres only room for lossy audio . Wonderful stuff hdmi
post #1908 of 1969
Yes, I have an extremely simplistic setup with the bdp-93 as the only source, and the panny vt30 as the display on hdmi1. So I am running in 1080p mode out of the bdp-93. The Cary 11a is the only device hanging off hdmi2.

Agree that the HDMI interface is really just a collection of compromises on what could have been a much better thought out and designed interface specification. Too many companies involved, and not enough thought on what could be....

What is "edid"?
post #1909 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by merge03 View Post

Yes, I have an extremely simplistic setup with the bdp-93 as the only source, and the panny vt30 as the display on hdmi1. So I am running in 1080p mode out of the bdp-93. The Cary 11a is the only device hanging off hdmi2.

Agree that the HDMI interface is really just a collection of compromises on what could have been a much better thought out and designed interface specification. Too many companies involved, and not enough thought on what could be....

What is "edid"?

Sorry; its short for e-edid which is the table of for example the resolutions a display can accept over hdmi . Its all part of the communications [comms] between the source and the 'sink' or display as to what is sent for compatability between the two . The cary is known as a repeater as it repeats the edid to the display though not with a direct feed as youve configured it .

If a display has a maximum input of 1080i for example the source ie the oppo on auto will send this resolution and not say 1080p because of the communication between the two . The oppo can override this thankfully if your display asks for 1080i but it happens to be able to handle say 1080p/24 but thats a hypothetical situation as your pana will take 24p no doubt
post #1910 of 1969
I read in the Cinema 12 thread that that unit has a problem with DTV / Sat HD recorders in that way that when the signal is fast forwarded or rewound it happened that the sound was not working for about 30 seconds. Even though it didn't happen every time still it was quite am annoying bug. Apperently this was already the case with the 11a unit and was never solved. Can anybody confirm that or confirm that this is not the case.
post #1911 of 1969
I've never experienced that. There is maybe 1s delay while it locks on again, but not 30.
post #1912 of 1969
Hello all,

I had a question about the output of the Cary Cinema 11v. I have the 11v and 11a connected to a Sony VPL-VW200 projector which can accept 1080p/24 video signals via HDMI.

However, the 11v's output setup has the 1080p/24 menu disabled. Why is this so? Currently I have it set to just 1080p but would like to set it to 1080p/24. Would appreciate if someone could offer some insight into this.

The source is a Denon BD Transport.
post #1913 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by NilRecurring View Post

Hello all,

I had a question about the output of the Cary Cinema 11v. I have the 11v and 11a connected to a Sony VPL-VW200 projector which can accept 1080p/24 video signals via HDMI.

However, the 11v's output setup has the 1080p/24 menu disabled. Why is this so? Currently I have it set to just 1080p but would like to set it to 1080p/24. Would appreciate if someone could offer some insight into this.

The source is a Denon BD Transport.

Only have a dvdo duo Nilrecurring but if the denon is set for 1080p/24 ie source direct the sony will say exactly what its getting [ my last sony did] . If its getting 1080p/60 switch off any 3/2 pulldown in the 11v if possible .

My vp has a input frame rate = output frame rate mode you may as well ? Hope a 11v owner helps a bit more
post #1914 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by westmd View Post

I read in the Cinema 12 thread that that unit has a problem with DTV / Sat HD recorders in that way that when the signal is fast forwarded or rewound it happened that the sound was not working for about 30 seconds. Even though it didn't happen every time still it was quite am annoying bug. Apperently this was already the case with the 11a unit and was never solved. Can anybody confirm that or confirm that this is not the case.

I have this same problem. It happens to anything that connects to the 11A through optical input. It does not happen to the HDMI inputs. I have my PC audio connected this way. The HDMI plugged to the TV for 3D use. It is quite annoying...Sometimes I even have to select another input on the remote and back to for the sound to come back.
post #1915 of 1969
My 11A was a horrid wretched mess and I thought I had the latest firmware from DVDO for the duo. It was a 2.x number. I get beta versions from my anchor bay rep. Well I was taking the final round and when I looked again the version was different than what was released. My fault for not looking close enough. With the newest version and with the DVDO there is a 2 second or so delay which I don't care about. Much better than the harsh clipping and resetting that was the norm at the beginning and switching of formats.

I am going to try out the 12 to give it a shot. Was suppose to do it this week but got way to busy. So it will have to wait till after the Montreal audio show. Keep you posted. If there is any samples you want me to test drop me a line and I will report back in the order received.

Nothing in the HDMI world is perfect. For the sound you get once it gets into the movie you can't match the bang for the buck. I have a Cary 7.250 and it is an incredible combination. Keep ya posted.
post #1916 of 1969
Quote:
Originally Posted by mandarax View Post

I am going to try out the 12 to give it a shot. Was suppose to do it this week but got way to busy. So it will have to wait till after the Montreal audio show.

Did you have a chance to test the Cinema 12 yet and compare it to the 11a? I am wondering if it still worth buying an ex Demo 11a.
post #1917 of 1969
I was suppose to get the unit but had a large installation... followed by the montreal audio show. I am going to still be doing the review but I am waiting a few more weeks before I take the unit to take it through its paces.

The issues I had with the Cary 11a seemed to be timing issues with the DVDO. The two just didnt seem to mesh very well. When I put up the last update from dvdo the issues are nearly non existent. For pure sound quality I still think that the signature sound of the Cary 11A is way beyond the price point for the product and if you can get a great price on a used 11A I wouldnt hesitate.

I actually programmed a delay for the unit while the issue existed because it was normally hdmi synch issues causing the grief.

There is plenty of items that I have seen that has way more bells and whistles but for the price i still think nothing touches it.

I am meeting up with the rep for the Cary 12 with a completely different product that is unrelated to Cary and will be taking the unit at the meeting.

Sorry about the delay.
post #1918 of 1969
If just using for movies having a 7.1 set up and having the oppo 93. Will I have any problems with the Cary. Seems a lot of the problems are with music. I will be just using it for movies and fios. Looking for new processor and saw a few on audiogon for sale. Thanks

G
post #1919 of 1969
HDMI from my DirecTV HD-DVR goes to a DVDO iScan Duo and then to the Cary 11a. HDMI-1 of my Oppo BDP-93 goes directly to the 11a. HDMI from the 11a goes to a Sony VPL-50 projector, XLR to a Proceed Amp 3 and two Amp 2s. This setup works flawlessly, and provides excellent video and audio.

My complaint about the 11a is its failure to recognize LPCM, and thus to provide bass management with SACDs. That's a flaw that extends to the 12 as well, a flaw Cary has not fixed.

db
post #1920 of 1969
Any 1:1 comparisons yet between the 12 and 11a soundwise?
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