Here's my listening impressions...
Note. We didn't use EQ on anything, no boosting up the bottom of the sealed subs, only HPF's for the subs that needed them. No time for that level of detail. I'm sure the pro sealed guys will be all over this later. I'm going to list the price, the external size of the sub, what HPF was used if any and a quick description of each design. I'll estimate if I don't know something for sure.
One thing of interest is that we had 2 CM140's there and 2 RS meters, plus Ivan's real deal pro meter. One of the CM140's (Robert's) was close to Ivan's meter only about 1 db off, but mine was about 4db lower than Roberts consistently. The discrepencies between the CM140 and Ivan's mic grew larger as the freq's got lower, because his mic is obviously flatter down low and reads closer to the truth. for example one sub that had some of the lowest bass response and output of the day registered only 113.2 db on my CM140, but on Ivan's mic it was 121.7db I think that roberts was around 117db peak.
I'm going from my notes and memory here.
Bic H100
$250, 12" vented. Extension is listed as 25hz. 15"x 17"x 18.25" or 2.7 cu ft external.
We started the day off with this guy and I was impressed actually. It sounded good if a wee bit boomy and had more output than I expected. It didnt seem to have a whole lot below 30hz, but it didn't kill itself trying it either. We ran it pretty hard and when we hit Bass I love You it was too much for it and we dropped the level down. It was fine from there until we switched to movies and the THX trailer overloaded it again. We were just asking too much from it in that big room and since it was the first sub of the day we didn't have a real grasp on the levels yet. It overloaded fairly gracefully really. I think it's amp limited. For $250 this thing is a real winner. It looks good, sounds decent and will get pretty loud.
Outlaw LFM-1 Compact
$399, vented 10", extension listed as 25hz, 13"x 16.75" x 19" or 2.4 cu ft external.
This was the smallest sub there and it had the smallest driver too. It was the best looking, had solid fit n finish and won the WAF award easily. Compared to the BIC H100 it sounded a cleaner and more refined to me, with a bit more extension at moderate levels, but gave up some max output. Sounded nice and integrated with the mains well. Again when Bass I Love You came on (track 5) it was too much and we had to back of the level on the sub quite a bit. It was fine with the regular music tracks that are mostly above 40hz at the level we had it, but the lows at that level were asking too much from the smallest sub there. Again once the THX trailer came on we had to lower the volume further still, as there was some driver flutter and distortion. This sub is for a more reasonable sized room and levels.
ED A7S450
$860, sealed 18", extension listed as 22hz, 22.25x22.25x22.25 or 6.4cu ft external.
This was a major jump up in power and useable extension from the first 2 subs. It had a lot more upper end extension than the first subs as well. seemed a bit uncontrolled at times or muddy. We were running it fairly hard though. It seemed like there was a HPF somewhere below 16hz judging from Bass I love You, which once again caused nasty sounds and a reduction in the volume level on the sub. Probably heavy amp clipping. After we reduced the level it did ok with the rest of the music. I thought that the Outlaw had a better sound to it on music. The THX trailer started up the movies and the ED did better here and was the first sub to start to get some tactile feel to it.It's a lot of output for the price.
Shiva X
$500 (estimate including cab and amp), 12" vented, 22hz tune measured, 22" x 24"x 28" or 8.5ft external (estimate), 20hz 24db octave butterworth HPF used.
This was the first DIY of the day and it didn't disappoint. I thought that it sounded much better and smoother than the other subs so far. Just sounded clean on the music tracks. I liked it a lot. Better than the A7S 450 but maybe not as powerful. This was the first sub to not kill itself on Bass I Love You and the driver had a clean sound even though there was a healthy amount of excursion. We thought that we were finally getting close on the levels. Then the THX trailer comes on and WHAM! Stick with around 600-700w on this cab because it did not like what the 8002 dumped into it on that one. I had to dive to hit the power button on the 8002. This is with a 24db octave 20hz HPF too. We stretched the suspension on it all the way for sure. We take an intermission and adjust the level out into the amp. Turn it back on and the driver is all good. Whew... It handled the rest of the movies flawlessly with a more realistic volume setting from there and the near 20hz tune gave it some real extension. The Shiva is a very nice 12" from what I heard.
Dual TC Sounds Epic 12's
$600 (estimate including an amp), dual 12's sealed, 14x16x30 or 3.9ft external(estimate)
Having had a near death experience with the Shiva X (among others) we decided to start 'sanity checking" our levels using the THX trailer prior to running through the tracks. At about this point is where I realized that we were actually asking for near reference level or more from the subs when it cam time for the movies. How many HT enthusiasts does it take to screw in a light bulb? Anyway I thought that the Epic 12's were notably extended in the upper bass and this combined with the sharp roll off made them sound almost bright by comparison to everything else we had heard so far. They had a ton of output up high but not much below 35hz. They really needed some EQ on the lows to bring them up. I didn't think that they sounded too bad with the music tracks, they just rolled off a lot of the lows. Robert thought that they sounded terrible. they did track the upper bass notes well, but i did detect some box panel vibration or something. They were the first subs to make it through all of the tracks without a hitch. we ran them at 2ohms off of one side of an 8002 (2000w) and they ate up the power well. I'd really like to see these up against the Shiva X in a box similar to Mike's. I think they were handicapped a lot here. We ran these with no HPF though.
ED 190v2
$650 (estimate including amp and cab) vented 18", tuned to 15hz, 24x24x50 or 16.7 cu ft external (estimate), 15hz 2nd order butterworth HPF (Rane PE 17)
This was the first sub with real power and extension of the day. I hadn't really gotten a sense of anything below 20hz yet until this sub. It seemed to have some resonance issues in the box or port on the music tracks in the upper bass. A bit of one noteness in there. Having already heard a sealed one earlier I know that it's not the driver. The vented cab did add a lot on the movies over the sealed one though. there was way more low end power. At one point during Bass I Love You on the 16hz note, which is right at tune, we thought that the 8" port was chuffing and compressing badly. It turned out to be the closet door banging away. We pushed it hard too. Probably a bit too hard at times on the movie tracks. We had to turn it down a bit on the THX trailer. We were way over xmax a few times, but it held together well and we reduced the volume a bit. I don't think Brandon has ever pushed his sub like that before. It think that a new better constructed box is in order and will really make it shine.
LMS 18
$1900 (driver, beefy amp, box, hardware, cords, EQ, etc) sealed 18", 21.5 x 21.5 x 21.5", or about 6.2 cu ft external.
I won't say too much here because it's mine. No HPF was used. I pushed it up to where it was driven very hard on the THX trailer, but was still ok and then let it rip with the 8002 bridged. It ran through everything with no further adjustment needed. It was dimpling the surround a bit on Bass I Love You (16hz). Uneventful other than that. I thought it had the best pure sound of all of the subs.
XXX 18
$1900 (driver, beefy amp, box, hardware, cords, EQ, etc) sealed 18", 24.5x 24.5x 36" or about 12.5cu ft external
This one was mine as well so I won't post much. Similar to the LMS, I used the THX trailer and set it to where it was ok with that but being pushed very hard. No HPF, bridged 8002. On Bass I Love You, the excursion got out to the "outer limits" (16hz, 7hz) it ran through everything else easily. The most sub 25hz bass of the day up till then IMO. Sounded similar to the LMS (very good) on the music with a tad less punch and extension up top (music) but more reach and headroom down low (HT). Probably the highest output levels of the day up to that point.
Worx TL118SS
$3000??, vented 18", 24hz rated extension, 22.5x28x30 or 10.7 cu ft external. 25hz 24db octave Butterworth HPF used.
Ivan and myself decided on a 25hz filter due to the shape of the response curve, the cab tuning and the fact that we were really pushing all of the subs hard with the lows. We used 1 channel of Robert's IT8000 for power. I thought this sub sounded quite good on the music tracks similar to the LMS just a bit less defined. Very good though with huge punch on the kick drums and excellent note tracking.
Awesome. The Primus and Mudvayne tracks were excellent. On Bass I Love You the lowest tones were subdued or missing altogether due to the HPF but it was very clean and powerful on the 30hz and 25hz tones. The highest levels yet, higher than the LMS or XXX by a noticeable amount on the music tracks. (At this point the mains were fairly well left in the dust, we were getting close to a concert mix at this point. More kick baby!) On movies the Worx plowed through everything and sounded good and controlled doing it. The sub lows were obviously missing but I don't know if I would've noticed without having just had them there. We may have had a db or 2 left in this baby but we did push it dang hard, so it wasn't much. It was built rugged and professional as it should be. Thumbs up.
DSL CS30
$1650 (I think) single 12" quasi vented bandpass deal (ask Tom D.), rated to 27hz extension, 15x22.5x24 or about 4.7 cu ft external. 30hz 12db octave Butterworth HPF (I think. Ask Ivan)
I really was impressed with this little guy. It was the 3rd smallest sub in the group and was just a bit bigger than the H100, but the output was in a totally different league. It was very solid down to 30hz and would really punch for it's size. It also had a very smooth, clean sound that was undistorted. It was especially nice on kick drums. It did not sound boxey or one notey. The very upper end of the bass seemed to be rolled off a tad, which is not surprising from the design description. On movies it aquitted itself very well, but was of course missing the stuff below 25hz. It had a lot of punch on the Pearl harbor 50cal scene. We skipped a few scenes because it was getting late in the day and with the 30hz HPF some of the movie scenes were kind of moot anyway. The only time we saw a clip light all night was with the CS30 on music running on one channel of the 8002. we did push it hard enough to hear a bit of driver complaining noises during the Jericho missile launch. I think this scene has a lot of 25-30hz content. Of note is the fact that the night before we had a slight mishap with the CS30, some pink noise and the PL9.0
. Luckily we did not blow the driver. It must be one tuff little sucker. You could do a small size bar/club with a pair of these. Keep in mind how small this thing is for the output we are talking about and add in the fact that it's really good sounding too and it's a nice piece.
DSL THspud
$2250 (I think), dual 8" TH design, rated to 17hz, 11x45x48 or 13.75 cu ft external. Quasi 18hz HPF used consisting of 20hz 12db Butterworth plus a small EQ bump at 20hz.
I had really been waiting to hear this one. We put it flat against the wall and firing into the room. On the music tracks I was a bit disappointed. There seemed to be some resonance or other issues in the very top of the bass range that were making some notes stand out more than others. It did have a lot of output and handled 16hz note in Bass I Love You with some power. It did better with movies IMO. The extension was solid to around 16hz with real strength so it was strong through all of the movie scenes. I did detect a bit of overload on a few scenes, but like every other sub there we were really pushing the bass out. I got up and along with Vili we listened to a couple of tracks right up next to it the way it was designed to be used. It was much smoother sounding and powerful that close to it, which is no surprise. I can see where a pair under your couch firing up at the back of your head would be pretty stupid levels of output down to 15hz or so and also a nice tactile sensation as well. I think it could've benefitted from a lower 60 or 70hz x over point to clean up the top end a little and give it that deeper sound. It was a very solidly built and rugged professional quality cabinet as were the other Danley's. You could probably drop it down a flight of steps with out damaging it significantly.
DSL TH50
$3150 (I think), single 15" TH, 18hz extension rated, 25x34x45 or 22.15 cu ft external. 20hz 12db octave Butterworth HPF ( I think. Ask Ivan)
This is the one I wanted to hear most. It was run off of one channel on the PL9.0. This was the last one up and there was a lot of anticipation and expectations about it. It didn't disappoint. We ran through the movie tracks first since we were already on that disc. In short it was in a different league from everything else even the Worx sub in output and power from at least 18hz up. It pressurized the room and in a way and with an ease that nothing else did. It was concussive and tactile. You could feel the pressure on your face and your clothing in a way that I had not felt all day. It was clean and deep sounding too. I don't know how close it was to it's limits but it purely overpowered the deep bass void that was in the middle of the room where I had been sitting all day. Brute force. On music it was much better than the THspud IMO and closer to the CS30's. Not as good as the LMS but not bad at all. Huge punch and chest slam. I did detect a bit of some sort of resonance or overemphasis on some notes in the top of the bass range. Ivan switched to a slightly lower 80hz, I think, x over and it immediately sounded better. Just clean and deep at that point. Seems to sound better crossed lower. Once we got to Bass I Love You it was so loud that it knocked over some items on the desk near the computer and we decided to call it a day there. I think we registered 128.7db peak with it. When you consider that it's in the same price range as a Fathom F113, it looks like a bargain to me. It's huge of course and won't win any WAF contests but it'd be worth it for HT. This is the first time I've actually heard Danley products and this is the one that made me think Ok... Now I get what all of the fuss is about. Whatever they are doing in that cabinet is impressive. If you put that 15" driver in a sealed cab it would've got owned by the LMS. It wouldn't come close to doing what it does in that TH enclosure if it was a standard ported cab either. It was insane for 1 15" even if it is a big hefty 15.
