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Another subwoofer GTG, Southern style - Page 3

post #61 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I can bring my Rane PE-17 for a HPF. It's only a 12db octave roll off but it can adjust all the way from 40khz down to 10hz.

Thanks Ricci.
post #62 of 781
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

brandon, thanks for pulling this together. if you haven't, you may want to coordinate with other gtg hosts in order to put together a strict schedule, because everything always takes twice as long as planned in practice. also, have a plan b for everything in your plan a. can't wait to here how this goes. good luck!

Believe me, this is as much for me as it is for everyone else. I've not been able to compare my sub to anything else that's good (which may also be a bad thing!!) except for high price commercial stuff I've heard in AV stores and that was only for a few minutes each. Based on those evaluations I would say that compared to even the Wilson Audio Watch Dog sub mine is only marginally less in quality. With my new amp it would lay it out on it's back on sheer output and visceral impact. This should be prove positive for anyone who wants to go DIY. The Wilson sub's msrp is ~$10,000. The sound quality is not quite as good, but it's pretty close from what I've heard. My sub total cost including driver, amp, enclosure, shipping, and a couple little extras was right around $500. Of course this is a gross example, but I'd be willing to be that Ricci's LMS or XXX with his amps that would cost still a lot more than my setup would best the Wilson in all categories at a fraction of the cost.

As far as scheduling goes, I'm going to be putting together a dvd with demo material. It'll include some music (hoping to find some good acoustic bass stuff) and some movies for that big bass impact. I'm going to try to put all this stuff on one disc to save time from changing discs too much on my slow loading blu ray player, and to keep the same material for all subs. I'll try to keep it at a max run time of around 30 minutes per sub. If it takes up to 30 minutes setting up each sub then we're looking at an hour for each sub. I'm sure there are ways that we can wiggle on those times, but I'm trying to prepare for that.

As far as the plan b goes, I'll just have to ask Warpdrv and Ricci what, if anything, went wrong up at warp's place. I'm running through the possibilities, and I have backups for everything except my receiver. If it goes out for whatever reason (I don't think it will) we'll be screwed that way. I've got plenty of extra bits of speaker cable, but it's leftovers. I may go out and buy some extra just to have on hand, and I've got some extra cabling for the subs, but once again, I'm going to check with Ricci to see if he thinks we'll need any more past what I have.
post #63 of 781
Brandon,I may still try and come down[my daughter's prom's that night ,and her birthdays the next day 19th] can't tell I'm addicted to this hobbies ,huh?? I'll have to come fairly early and leave early afternoon sometime though.....anything going on early on??
post #64 of 781
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I'm thinking we'll officially get started around 10ish. I'll be here and up early as I'll be cooking bbq starting at around midnight. I'll get some sleep in there sometime. Ricci has said he would probably come early too to set up some of his stuff. Hardvark, did you say you were in nashville?

This hobby is a marathon with no final destination. Its easily addicting.
post #65 of 781
Quick question. Does anyone need the cabling for the speakers wired for brig=dged operation with a speakon on each end to use with my itech?

I can bring both stereo wiring and bridged with speakons on both ends.

Thanks,

Robert.

What about xlr cables?
post #66 of 781
I would be nice to know what connections were needed for each sub before we actually get tto the setup phase. That way, we could just plug each sub in with no real decision and looking time.
post #67 of 781
I my room I installed speaker outlets in the walls. My sub is wired 4 ohm and I just have an 8ga. speaker wire 6' long sticking out the back of the sub with Banana jacks on the end.
post #68 of 781
Thread Starter 
Wow. I thought I was the only one awake at this hour.
post #69 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Wow. I thought I was the only one awake at this hour.

I do not sleep a lot. Usually after about 5 to 6 hours I get up. Sad part is, I woke up at 4:00.
post #70 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertcharles View Post

Quick question. Does anyone need the cabling for the speakers wired for brig=dged operation with a speakon on each end to use with my itech?

I can bring both stereo wiring and bridged with speakons on both ends.

Thanks,

Robert.

What about xlr cables?

So I take it that you are attending Robert?

I can bring a speakon or 2 myself. I've got a couple of 50ft ones already wired for bridge mono. Speakon is what I use on all my subs. I'll bring at least the one 50ft cord. We can use it for outdoor tests if we actually get a chance to do that. If you want to bring one or 2 yourself that'd be great. i'll also be bringing a few XLR's, but again feel free to bring a few more. I'd hate for us to have to make a run out somewhere to get some things.

I seriously doubt that we'll need to bridge the IT8000 into anything. good god man that's 8000w. Even one channel is 4000w and that's enough juice to damage anything that we'll have on hand. Even the LMS or XXX if we're not careful. Heck the Crest 8002 I'm bringing is really no joke itself at 4000w bridged. I'd say that the owners of the subs control the volume when they are playing in case something does happen...
post #71 of 781
Looks like Robert and myself use Speakons.

What about the rest of you guys?

Brandon,

Do you have any ideas going for the 30min demo disc?

I'd like to have one or 2 music tracks that are quick and complex bass passages through the x-over range 60-120hz (stand up bass, well recorded bass guitar?). A couple of music tracks that are really punchy and sharply percussive (kick drum, other percussion). A few movie cuts with the crazy deep elemental style bass (WOTW, The Hulk, M&C, etc.) Maybe a few movie cuts that are really dynamic in the bass range (DK gun blasts, Open range? ). Perhaps round it out with a smattering of other interesting tracks with challenging bass?

Specific track suggestions?

I'd like to see:
The Hulk's sonic cannons scene
WOTW lightning strikes and pod emergence scene
M&C opening cannon battle
The DK chain gun firing
Open Range gun blasts
KFP Skidooosh (could be fun)
Bass I love you (has 32hz, 25hz, 16hz and a deep 7hz note)
Michael Jackson Billie Jean

I've got idea's for some music tracks but I doubt that anyone else has heard of any them. Might be better to stick with stuff familiar to everyone.
post #72 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Looks like Robert and myself use Speakons.

What about the rest of you guys?

Brandon,

Do you have any ideas going for the 30min demo disc?

I'd like to have one or 2 music tracks that are quick and complex bass passages through the x-over range 60-120hz (stand up bass, well recorded bass guitar?). A couple of music tracks that are really punchy and sharply percussive (kick drum, other percussion). A few movie cuts with the crazy deep elemental style bass (WOTW, The Hulk, M&C, etc.) Maybe a few movie cuts that are really dynamic in the bass range (DK gun blasts, Open range? ). Perhaps round it out with a smattering of other interesting tracks with challenging bass?

If you can get a hold of the DTS demo disk. It has Hero, Day After Tomorrow, Kill Bill, Blue Man Group Song, etc... That disk is awesome. A friend of mine brings over to my house to demo my system. It's a great demo disc which includes everything u want... from deep bass to loud bass, mid bass for music and also test out ur surrounds...

Al,
post #73 of 781
Thread Starter 
A friend made me a couple copies of good cds. The chesky ultimate demo disc which has a lot of really cool stuff. I got a couple others too but this seems to have the most variety. I will pull a couple of tracks from it and hey a couple movies on there. I think one of the more impressive scenes is the final scene of independence day. It has some deep stuff but nothing like wotw, but the drums along at the end are very crisp and precise.

I will browse through the movies with bass list and try to find a couple unknowns that are good.

My equipment is not good enough to do this test but I read a great demo a company did once. It was an acoustic bassist standing next to their set of speakers and they were playing the same bit of music at different times in the song. The reviewer said the transitions were seemless.

Will get into some more after work. Kind of hard typing on the phone.
post #74 of 781
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

Looks like Robert and myself use Speakons.

What about the rest of you guys?

Brandon,

Do you have any ideas going for the 30min demo disc?

I'd like to have one or 2 music tracks that are quick and complex bass passages through the x-over range 60-120hz (stand up bass, well recorded bass guitar?). A couple of music tracks that are really punchy and sharply percussive (kick drum, other percussion). A few movie cuts with the crazy deep elemental style bass (WOTW, The Hulk, M&C, etc.) Maybe a few movie cuts that are really dynamic in the bass range (DK gun blasts, Open range? ). Perhaps round it out with a smattering of other interesting tracks with challenging bass?

Specific track suggestions?

I'd like to see:
The Hulk's sonic cannons scene
WOTW lightning strikes and pod emergence scene
M&C opening cannon battle
The DK chain gun firing
Open Range gun blasts
KFP Skidooosh (could be fun)
Bass I love you (has 32hz, 25hz, 16hz and a deep 7hz note)
Michael Jackson Billie Jean

I've got idea's for some music tracks but I doubt that anyone else has heard of any them. Might be better to stick with stuff familiar to everyone.



If you have Billie Jean on CD I think I may have to revoke your attendance. Just kidding. It is pretty funny though. I've never thought about that song having any bass, but I guess it has a little slow funkiness.

Throw some of the music out that you think we may not have heard before. I have been into indie and underground stuff for a while.

Just a thought, but some good speed metal might be something to have on hand too. Be a good way to really evaluated fast repeated attack and decay of the subs with the double bass drums. I vote for Full Blown Chaos or Dying Fetus. Don't listen to that stuff very much anymore, but it can sure give that kicked in the chest feel.
post #75 of 781
brandon ,I"m next to Knoxville { therfore the midafternoon departure ;-} ]
post #76 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

A friend made me a couple copies of good cds. The chesky ultimate demo disc which has a lot of really cool stuff. I got a couple others too but this seems to have the most variety. I will pull a couple of tracks from it and hey a couple movies on there. I think one of the more impressive scenes is the final scene of independence day. It has some deep stuff but nothing like wotw, but the drums along at the end are very crisp and precise.

I will browse through the movies with bass list and try to find a couple unknowns that are good.

My equipment is not good enough to do this test but I read a great demo a company did once. It was an acoustic bassist standing next to their set of speakers and they were playing the same bit of music at different times in the song. The reviewer said the transitions were seemless.

Will get into some more after work. Kind of hard typing on the phone.

the un-released track from the movie bend it like beckham is a fun track (cute movie too):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5P70G8S8

a pretty well mastered track...peak-to-average power arcross the spectrum is 12-13db, which is pretty good for this kind of track. 31 hz or so on the low end, which is pretty deep for music. not exactly a torture test, just something different to throw in the mix (or not).

eat your aloo gobi and dream your dreams.
post #77 of 781
for a torture test, check out toccata in fugue by bass mekanik. bach was a basshead who wanted to see what the 'pipes could do' with this one. around the 20 second mark, it hits a +17db or so peak at 18hz.
post #78 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

for a torture test, check out toccata in fugue by bass mekanik. bach was a basshead who wanted to see what the 'pipes could do' with this one. around the 20 second mark, it hits a +17db or so peak at 18hz.


We had that one on hand at the WI GTG and it was fun. Seemed like it went well below 18hz to me. I may have to download this one.



Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

If you have Billie Jean on CD I think I may have to revoke your attendance. Just kidding. It is pretty funny though. I've never thought about that song having any bass, but I guess it has a little slow funkiness. .

I don't, but my sister does. Seriously though that album is recorded really well and that track has a nice smooth bass line that sounds clean through the 50-120hz range. Plus everybody knows that song. It is easy to hear the differences between subs on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Throw some of the music out that you think we may not have heard before. I have been into indie and underground stuff for a while.

Just a thought, but some good speed metal might be something to have on hand too. Be a good way to really evaluated fast repeated attack and decay of the subs with the double bass drums. I vote for Full Blown Chaos or Dying Fetus. Don't listen to that stuff very much anymore, but it can sure give that kicked in the chest feel.

Oh no you didn't name drop Dying Fetus. We opened for them early last year. For double bass there's a band called God Forbid that has a really punchy triggered sound, or there's the old stand by's fear Factory or Lamb of God. There's a track from The Baroness that I'd like to use. It's got a really full and thick bass drum and bass guitar mix with a lot of punch and good note progression. There's a track from the Dillinger Escape Plan that I like too for the same reason. Mars Volta has some good bass and drum stuff. Primus is always good as is Mudvayne.
post #79 of 781
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

We had that one on hand at the WI GTG and it was fun. Seemed like it went well below 18hz to me. I may have to download this one.





I don't, but my sister does. Seriously though that album is recorded really well and that track has a nice smooth bass line that sounds clean through the 50-120hz range. Plus everybody knows that song. It is easy to hear the differences between subs on it.



Oh no you didn't name drop Dying Fetus.

I thought the lowest organ pipe was 16 hz. I thought that was a 32 foot pipe and there wasn't a pipe for an 18 hz tone. I'm probably wrong. I'm not up on pipe organ music.

Either your sister was in Jr high in the Jackson heyday or she's younger and part of the revitalize movement.

And oh yes I did name drop dying fetus. I'm not as in to metal as I was in high school, but every now and then there will be a band that comes along and wows me. I think our music likes are very similar. I'm a huge fan of Dropkick Murphys and I saw that you went to their show in Chicago when the WI GTG was held. I still like good punk when it comes along. The Casualties are quite good. Most of my stuff I liked was underground punk and metal from the 90's. I'm more into british rock now. It doesn't adhere to the standard american "nickelback" style of rock they play on the radio now. Everything sounds the same that's coming out now.

Ricci, you said you were going to be down this was a couple days? When do you think you'll get down here? Maybe I can get you over early to see what you think of some stuff to setup. Things like whether or not to move my equipment out of my closet and into the main room for more easy accessibility.
post #80 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

We had that one on hand at the WI GTG and it was fun. Seemed like it went well below 18hz to me. I may have to download this one.

sorry if i confused things. the bass mekanik mix is called "toccata in b". amazon excludes the best parts from the clip, so it's really only there in order to ensure that you have identified the correct clip. i suppose that's its purpose.

http://www.amazon.com/Toccata-In-B/dp/B000QWV5YM
post #81 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

Ricci, you said you were going to be down this was a couple days? When do you think you'll get down here? Maybe I can get you over early to see what you think of some stuff to setup. Things like whether or not to move my equipment out of my closet and into the main room for more easy accessibility.

I don't even listen to the radio except for NPR. I can't stand the majority of what constitutes "hits" and "popular" music. I like music that's more, underground, artsy and off of the beaten path.

We are going to be down there Friday afternoon/ night. Probably 9ish.
post #82 of 781
hey ricci, i see you live in louisville. i live roughly 30 miles north of downtown up I-65. I'm looking into going the diy route this summer and wanting to know if you build the enclosures and or design the enclosure for the sub to be used? it would be nice to hear a few diy designs after hearing what most commercial subs offer to hear the differences.
post #83 of 781
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ricci View Post

i don't even listen to the radio except for npr. I can't stand the majority of what constitutes "hits" and "popular" music. I like music that's more, underground, artsy and off of the beaten path.

We are going to be down there friday afternoon/ night. Probably 9ish.

sirius ftw!!!
post #84 of 781
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardvark View Post

brandon ,I"m next to Knoxville { therfore the midafternoon departure ;-} ]

Good deal. Will PM you with the info. Did you say you would bring something? If you are we will fit that in first for evaluations so you won't be held up before your daughters prom. I know you want to be there when her date picks her up. Slwayaz have to intimidate at least a little.
post #85 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang90 View Post

hey ricci, i see you live in louisville. i live roughly 30 miles north of downtown up I-65. I'm looking into going the diy route this summer and wanting to know if you build the enclosures and or design the enclosure for the sub to be used? it would be nice to hear a few diy designs after hearing what most commercial subs offer to hear the differences.

I do and I do. However sometimes for really complicated builds or if I want a really nice finish I will have a professional make the cab for me. What part of IN do you live in, Floyd County, Clark?
post #86 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

I do and I do. However sometimes for really complicated builds or if I want a really nice finish I will have a professional make the cab for me. What part of IN do you live in, Floyd County, Clark?


in scottsburg. don't hold that against me though!!

i'm not looking to do anything real complicated. kind of thinking along the lines of a slot ported cabinet using an audiopulse 15 or something similar. really wanting something with both slam and depth that can play well into the 120db range. i do however want the cabinet to have some type of veneer finish. preferrably to match my rf-7's.
post #87 of 781
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang90 View Post

in scottsburg. don't hold that against me though!!

i'm not looking to do anything real complicated. kind of thinking along the lines of a slot ported cabinet using an audiopulse 15 or something similar. really wanting something with both slam and depth that can play well into the 120db range. i do however want the cabinet to have some type of veneer finish. preferrably to match my rf-7's.

What kind of budget are you looking at total? With that sub and the finish you want looks like around $1000? Depending on your room size you may have a hard time getting 120 dB out of 1 15 inch sub. May want to look at multiple drivers.
post #88 of 781
i would say no more than 2K maximum for amp, enclosure, and driver. i was thinking along the lines of 6-9 cubic feet ported with 1500+ watts. would that not get me in the 120db neighborhood? i really want to stay with a single driver due to placement issues, but if i cannot get what i am expecting from it, then maybe i will have to look at multiples.
post #89 of 781
Thread Starter 
For that kind of price you could build some top notch stuff.

Maybe an 18" LMS (if you can find one) in a sealed box in your range. Take a look here to see if this might be your winning ticket. In room the 120 dB you want could actually happen.

Hardest part would be finding the driver and PR's.
post #90 of 781
Quote:
Originally Posted by mustang90 View Post

i would say no more than 2K maximum for amp, enclosure, and driver. i was thinking along the lines of 6-9 cubic feet ported with 1500+ watts. would that not get me in the 120db neighborhood? i really want to stay with a single driver due to placement issues, but if i cannot get what i am expecting from it, then maybe i will have to look at multiples.

Check this one out. You could use a 15" with two passive radiators rather than an 18".
good-times.webshots.com/album/567843878DMVxXr
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