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The Official Panasonic 12G Settings/Issues Thread - Page 65

post #1921 of 4417
7/25/09 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mf1111 View Post

Thinking of upgrading my 42pz700 to a bigger Panny and came upon this thread. It appears that all are waiting forD-Nice to submit SM offsets to 2009 model Pannys. My question is why did he just submit settings to a 720p model? Don't most Panny owners go with the 1080p sets and SM settings for these 2009 models would be more useful to more AVS members who, by the very fact of them being here, would purchase one of the higher res sets. Who buys 720p anymore? Really odd, I think.

No, it's not odd. The X1 was the first to hit the shelves.

Just a supposition for the members to mull over: I wonder if D-Nice has had second thoughts about posting more settings after seeing the mass confusion and misinterpretations that occurred in this thread after the X1 offsets were posted. Just a thought.

Larry
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post #1922 of 4417
7/25/09 at 4:18pm
Thats a good point Larry could be the case, I think he should just delete those posts so people give up already.
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post #1923 of 4417
7/25/09 at 5:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Thats a good point Larry could be the case, I think he should just delete those posts so people give up already.

Has anyone PM'd D-Nice recently to ask if he's going to complete this thread? The only reason I'm checking this thread is to see what he does for the other 12G models. It seems like this thread has drifted from what it was supposed to be about and it may very well be a good idea to delete those posts if he doesn't plan on providing any more offsets/user settings.
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post #1924 of 4417
7/25/09 at 5:16pm
Back in 2006, I bought the Sony kd 34xbr960. A great guy named Kentech posted the ultimate and complete SM guide for all aspects of picture and sound quality. He stated that all one need to know is there and that would be that. I made 100s of SM changes based on his complete instructions. All questions to Kentech were referred to his postings and no further answers were accepted or needed since all was there. Worked great.(apologies to Kentech if I misrepresented any facts but they are as accurate as my memory allows.)My SM changes did wonders for my set. Perhaps "D Nice" should set down the same rules because based on his original posts, his instructions were clear and complete and all furthur questions could be answered by referring to them.This policy
should work if he decides to post further SM and break in instructions on other Panny models.
Here's a link to the original KenTech massive thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hlight=kentech
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post #1925 of 4417
7/25/09 at 7:12pm
Well you gotta also remember he does this for a living. So maybe he realized that people who wanted to get a cal from him. Found out his offsets were online and decided against it.

Could be possibly losing business.

I've seen other calibrators say they would not post there settings since this is what they do for a living.
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post #1926 of 4417
7/25/09 at 8:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Well you gotta also remember he does this for a living. So maybe he realized that people who wanted to get a cal from him. Found out his offsets were online and decided against it.

Could be possibly losing business.

I've seen other calibrators say they would not post there settings since this is what they do for a living.

That is entirely possible, and if it is, I'm sure we'd all respect that. However, it would also be nice to hear from him on if he's planning on posting the offsets so we'd know whether or not we need to keep visiting this thread every day.
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post #1927 of 4417
7/25/09 at 8:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kratos3 View Post

That is entirely possible, and if it is, I'm sure we'd all respect that. However, it would also be nice to hear from him on if he's planning on posting the offsets so we'd know whether or not we need to keep visiting this thread every day.

Yah the weird thing though is that he did come back, at some point not too long ago and said he was sorry and he still would be posting them.

So based off that it seems he is just really busy with his real life. MAybe he never ended up getting an S or G model.
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post #1928 of 4417
7/25/09 at 8:48pm
Not all TV's are alike -- plugging in settings might get you in the ballpark but that's it. Furthermore, if the device you're using is different, you might even do more harm than good.

But I agree, not only him, but other pro calibrators as well, and it's quite possible that they might have mentioned that they are not very happy with what he's doing.
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post #1929 of 4417
7/25/09 at 9:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

The upward moving line is not normal. It appears that you may have a ground loop. Try plugging all your components into the same electrical outlet as your TV. And double check that all your cables are securely inserted into the correct inputs on the TV.

Larry

I plugged both the TV and cable box into the same outlet strip and I still see the line. I made sure all the component cables and co-axial input cable were securely tightened as well. Could there be another factor or should I call Comcast? I've always had issues with the line coming into the house.

TIA
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post #1930 of 4417
7/25/09 at 9:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fold0rDie View Post

I plugged both the TV and cable box into the same outlet strip and I still see the line. I made sure all the component cables and co-axial input cable were securely tightened as well. Could there be another factor or should I call Comcast? I've always had issues with the line coming into the house.

TIA

What about DVD? I think that you said that you see the moving line with that also. If so, it is not the cable box or the connections. I have nothing more to add. Maybe someone else has. If you still can exchange the set, you may want to try that.

Larry
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post #1931 of 4417
7/25/09 at 9:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Well you gotta also remember he does this for a living. So maybe he realized that people who wanted to get a cal from him. Found out his offsets were online and decided against it.

Could be possibly losing business.

I've seen other calibrators say they would not post there settings since this is what they do for a living.

I doubt that he is losing business on the X1. I doubt that there are many that would spend $300 to have a $700-900 set calibrated.

Larry
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post #1932 of 4417
7/25/09 at 11:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I doubt that he is losing business on the X1. I doubt that there are many that would spend $300 to have a $700-900 set calibrated.

Larry

Yah I thought about that after I posted. Life is probably just more important right now. Which is a good thing because there are plenty of us at home getting unemployment checks with way too much time on our hands.
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post #1933 of 4417
7/25/09 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Yah I thought about that after I posted. Life is probably just more important right now. Which is a good thing because there are plenty of us at home getting unemployment checks with way too much time on our hands.

I'm not on unemployment yet, but I agree 300 is still is a nice amount of money.
I was happy to swing the X1 pass the wife and that was because the other TV quit working. I'd probably get the headache treatment for a month if I ask to spend another $300.
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post #1934 of 4417
7/25/09 at 11:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mf1111 View Post

Don’t most Panny owners go with the 1080p sets and SM settings for these 2009 models would be more useful to more AVS members who, by the very fact of them being here, would purchase one of the higher res sets. Who buys 720p anymore? Really odd, I think.

I guess 10's of thousands of people think you are wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 720 42" plasma. Few people can discern the difference at that size and even at 50". I happily bought a 42" Panny X1 for $599, as did, many, many people here.

As an experiment and to tweak the settings I set it next to my pro calibrated Sammy1080p set and only if I was inches away from the screen could I see a difference in the level of detail. With D-nices settings it is an absolutely stunning set, and when you look at the $599 price tag you'd be a fool not to give it serious consideration. People get hung up on the oneupmanship, "Oh, I got a 1080p, you only bought a 720???" When in the real world there isn't much difference between the two in a 42" or 50" size. Larger, yes, this range not so much.
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post #1935 of 4417
7/26/09 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

I guess 10's of thousands of people think you are wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 720 42" plasma. Few people can discern the difference at that size and even at 50". I happily bought a 42" Panny X1 for $599, as did, many, many people here.

As an experiment and to tweak the settings I set it next to my pro calibrated Sammy1080p set and only if I was inches away from the screen could I see a difference in the level of detail. With D-nices settings it is an absolutely stunning set, and when you look at the $599 price tag you'd be a fool not to give it serious consideration. People get hung up on the oneupmanship, "Oh, I got a 1080p, you only bought a 720???" When in the real world there isn't much difference between the two in a 42" or 50" size. Larger, yes, this range not so much.

That seems to be the opinion of most AV reviewers but I respectfully disagree. I have not so young eyes and I sit 5.5 feet from my 42pz700 1080 Panny.My brothers both have 720p sets, one a Panny and one an LG. I do see a difference . Not so much on , say , a less than stellar NBA game on ABC , but certainly on a HDNET show and especially on a Blu_ray.A Being a huge movie fan and gaga over Blu-ray, 720p to me would not be acceptable.
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post #1936 of 4417
7/26/09 at 8:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fold0rDie View Post

I plugged both the TV and cable box into the same outlet strip and I still see the line. I made sure all the component cables and co-axial input cable were securely tightened as well. Could there be another factor or should I call Comcast? I've always had issues with the line coming into the house.

TIA

Is this a situation in which a line conditioner would be beneficial?
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post #1937 of 4417
7/26/09 at 10:14am
Well, my two cents worth, after reading all the posts here (and on some other web sites) I decided that I'd rather do it myself. I like the idea of having the control of not relying on someone else, I like the ability to go in and recalibrate later if needed, or to calibrate another TV, etc. Plus, I'm not convinced, after talking to a professional ISF calibrator, that every set in a given model are exactly the same - he said, hey, if every set in a model was the same, I wouldn't need to actually spend all that time measuring and calibrating! I'd just say, Oh, this is a Panasonic XXXX or Samsung XXX and pull out my offsets and apply them.

You can do it yourself for anywhere from about $150 and up - depending on the meter you buy, etc. Of course the lower end meters aren't as great as the really expensive ones, but for most people here you can probably do pretty good. I chose an Enhanced Spyder3 that is hand picked and calibrated by the folks at SpectraCal, packaged with their CalMan software, and I'm setting up as we speak to do my own calibration. I'm sure there's a learning curve, but I'll share the results here, inspired by Orta (who pointed me at the web sites and info.) I'm not D-Nice, but it may be of some interest to folks. Since experience = knowing what the mistakes look like, I'll also share my mistakes as I learn to do this.

If you're interested enough to be reading this thread, I'd highly recommend reading this thread:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Even if you don't do your own calibration, it explains a lot about which there are a lot of questions and misconceptions here. It has FAQs that can lead you to going as high end/expensive or lower end/cheaper as you want, while steering you away from bad meters, etc.

FWIW
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post #1938 of 4417
7/26/09 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

Well, my two cents worth, after reading all the posts here (and on some other web sites) I decided that I'd rather do it myself. I like the idea of having the control of not relying on someone else, I like the ability to go in and recalibrate later if needed, or to calibrate another TV, etc. Plus, I'm not convinced, after talking to a professional ISF calibrator, that every set in a given model are exactly the same - he said, hey, if every set in a model was the same, I wouldn't need to actually spend all that time measuring and calibrating! I'd just say, Oh, this is a Panasonic XXXX or Samsung XXX and pull out my offsets and apply them.

You can do it yourself for anywhere from about $150 and up - depending on the meter you buy, etc. Of course the lower end meters aren't as great as the really expensive ones, but for most people here you can probably do pretty good. I chose an Enhanced Spyder3 that is hand picked and calibrated by the folks at SpectraCal, packaged with their CalMan software, and I'm setting up as we speak to do my own calibration. I'm sure there's a learning curve, but I'll share the results here, inspired by Orta (who pointed me at the web sites and info.) I'm not D-Nice, but it may be of some interest to folks. Since experience = knowing what the mistakes look like, I'll also share my mistakes as I learn to do this.

If you're interested enough to be reading this thread, I'd highly recommend reading this thread:

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

Even if you don't do your own calibration, it explains a lot about which there are a lot of questions and misconceptions here. It has FAQs that can lead you to going as high end/expensive or lower end/cheaper as you want, while steering you away from bad meters, etc.

FWIW

I agree that every set is not the same. I'm sure a pro calibrator could come to my house and adjust some settings to make it a little better. But with how my set looks and the "cal" was totally free. I'm 100% happy with the results.
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post #1939 of 4417
7/26/09 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

I agree that every set is not the same. I'm sure a pro calibrator could come to my house and adjust some settings to make it a little better. But with how my set looks and the "cal" was totally free. I'm 100% happy with the results.

Oh, no argument there. Just throwing out some thoughts for all the people in this thread who have been waiting for months for D-Nice to post his calibration for the G10s. Plus, some of us get an inherent satisfaction from actually doing it ourselves.
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post #1940 of 4417
7/26/09 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

Oh, no argument there. Just throwing out some thoughts for all the people in this thread who have been waiting for months for D-Nice to post his calibration for the G10s. Plus, some of us get an inherent satisfaction from actually doing it ourselves.

Maybe a "Panasonic G10/G15 Calibration Thread" is needed.
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post #1941 of 4417
7/26/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

Oh, no argument there. Just throwing out some thoughts for all the people in this thread who have been waiting for months for D-Nice to post his calibration for the G10s. Plus, some of us get an inherent satisfaction from actually doing it ourselves.

I agree that having a meter and calibration software means you can calibrate as many devices as you want and as many times as you want. You also get the satisfaction of learning what to do and then actually going in and doing it. Not every TV is the same from the factory and the source device also can impact your calibration so offsets are better than nothing but not the same as using a meter and calibration software on your actual TV with your actual source device.

BTW, I use a Display 2 and ColorHCFR. Have you had the opportunity to compare your CalMAN enhanced Spyder 3 to a Display 2?
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post #1942 of 4417
7/26/09 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

Oh, no argument there. Just throwing out some thoughts for all the people in this thread who have been waiting for months for D-Nice to post his calibration for the G10s. Plus, some of us get an inherent satisfaction from actually doing it ourselves.

Yah sounds cool for sure. I didnt realize it was as easy as just going down and buying the equipment. I thought there was training involved.

Just curious how much did all this equipment run you?
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post #1943 of 4417
7/26/09 at 2:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I agree that having a meter and calibration software means you can calibrate as many devices as you want and as many times as you want. You also get the satisfaction of learning what to do and then actually going in and doing it. Not every TV is the same from the factory and the source device also can impact your calibration so offsets are better than nothing but not the same as using a meter and calibration software on your actual TV with your actual source device.

BTW, I use a Display 2 and ColorHCFR. Have you had the opportunity to compare your CalMAN enhanced Spyder 3 to a Display 2?

Not personally, you can get some of that from the Curtpalme.com forums. The Display 2 gives really good results, but the Spyder3 has additional sensors and they say it gives very good results. I won't be able to compare as this is my first meter.
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post #1944 of 4417
7/26/09 at 2:49pm
It's not an easy task, and first timers can get good or bad results. The equipment is not cheap either. There isn't any one way to calibrate, you can end up with similar results by different means. At some point I may buy some equipment and play around with it, but after having my set done professionally I know that there is a lot to learn.

If you decide to do it plan on spending hours and hours doing it, and redoing it since you might think if you try you can get it a little better.
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post #1945 of 4417
7/26/09 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Yah sounds cool for sure. I didnt realize it was as easy as just going down and buying the equipment. I thought there was training involved.

Just curious how much did all this equipment run you?

You can use the Dummies Guide to Gray Scale guide I linked to and get away with as low as about $150. I paid for the Enhanced Spyder3 with the CalMan software, and it holds your hand and walks you through the calibrations. You can choose a very basic "beginner's" mode that is designed for people who've never done this, then go on to more intermediate and advanced modes.

The Spyder3 has extra sensors and is theoretically a "better" meter than other amateur level meters, but it is not calibrated at the factory and you can get a lot of variability in how good the meter you get is. SpectraCal has a bundle you can get from the links I showed above in which you can get a unit they hand pick and calibrate, then bundle with the CalMan software. Reg price is $399, on special til end of July from links above for $279, which is what I paid.
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post #1946 of 4417
7/26/09 at 3:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefflackey View Post

You can use the Dummies Guide to Gray Scale guide I linked to and get away with as low as about $150. I paid for the Enhanced Spyder3 with the CalMan software, and it holds your hand and walks you through the calibrations. You can choose a very basic "beginner's" mode that is designed for people who've never done this, then go on to more intermediate and advanced modes.

The Spyder3 has extra sensors and is theoretically a "better" meter than other amateur level meters, but it is not calibrated at the factory and you can get a lot of variability in how good the meter you get is. SpectraCal has a bundle you can get from the links I showed above in which you can get a unit they hand pick and calibrate, then bundle with the CalMan software. Reg price is $399, on special til end of July from links above for $279, which is what I paid.

Thats not bad sounds kinda fun, although I remember reading that the equipment Dnice uses is worth like 10 of these tvs.

I would be interested to do my own cal though sounds fun. I'm happy with my set though but thanks for sharing some info I'm curious of the results you get.
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post #1947 of 4417
7/26/09 at 3:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt L View Post

It's not an easy task, and first timers can get good or bad results. The equipment is not cheap either. There isn't any one way to calibrate, you can end up with similar results by different means. At some point I may buy some equipment and play around with it, but after having my set done professionally I know that there is a lot to learn.

If you decide to do it plan on spending hours and hours doing it, and redoing it since you might think if you try you can get it a little better.

Yeah, this is all true. One reason I went ahead and paid for the CalMan software is that it has a superb help file/tutorial that walks through things like the different CIE calibration modes, why one would be chosen over another, etc. plus it then has modes from hand-holding "Do this - put this on the screen - take this reading - based on that adjust until you get the dot in the middle of the target- then do this" to full fledged advanced modes for the very knowledgeable.

And I'm one of those who will, no doubt, tinker around a lot with it.
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post #1948 of 4417
7/26/09 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by whiteboy714 View Post

Yah sounds cool for sure. I didnt realize it was as easy as just going down and buying the equipment. I thought there was training involved.

Just curious how much did all this equipment run you?


If you don't have a technical background or an apptitude for it, it is not that simple. You have to have at least an idea of what is happening as you change values and read the resulting data. It's all numbers -- decimal and, for the Panasonic, hexidecimal.

It's all in the interptetation and understanding of the results. And before even touching the equipment, it takes a bit of study time in the calibration forum. That's where you can start before spending a penny. Yes, there is training even though it may be self training -- but it can be done. The pros in the calibration forum will help you out.

EDIT: Yes, D-Nice uses professsional equipment worth tens of thousnads of dollars but you can get very good results with a $150 Eye One Display 2 LT. Many of us have.

Larry
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post #1949 of 4417
7/26/09 at 3:38pm
jeff,

I just ordered aspyder 3 with calman home edition yesterday....how long did it take to get yours?. Can you post your impressions on the meter as I was going back and forth between the i1d2 and the spyder3. I have read posts from knowledgeable people on the calibration forum that say the i1d2 is still better and of course spectracal writes that the spyder3 is now better. Good luck with your calibration. Looking forward to seeing your results and comparing them with mine when I am done. I already downloaded D-nice settings from the shootuout.
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post #1950 of 4417
7/26/09 at 3:44pm
Good advice Larry about doing research and learning first. I have done that for the last 2 months over in the calibration thread where there is as you say many pros like yourself who are willing to take the time to answer questions and guide newbies along.
Do you have any comments on the i1d2 vs. the spyder3 ?
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