The Official Panasonic 12G Settings/Issues Thread - Page 129

Originally Posted by Make73

Right.

Like I wrote those offsets for X1 are a bit strange for me to understand.
I don´t hesitate D-Nice or LarryInRI´s knowledge but just asking why lowering original values so much?

Maby you could do other method of calibration for those who likes more contrast and light powerful picture

Originally Posted by teerump

What other method???

Originally Posted by teerump

...but switch yours to Custom, and Cool temp with Larrys bright/color/etc.... just for reference.. and see what you think about that picture.

To me, it looks more "alive", vibrant and more color. What do you think???

Originally Posted by LarryInRI

For general reference:

Normal color temperature is about 8900K.

Cool color temperature is about 11500K.


Larry

Originally Posted by teerump

So Larry, is that what's making it seems so dark and gray to me? Is that because of what I'm used to watching it brighter?

I like the Custom with Cool temp. Just my preference I guess, seems to give the picture more POP.

Can I go into the SM and dial down the redness? What value do I change?

Other than that, I'm happy with it, I know we all have our preferences.. some may look at my screen and think it looks like crap.. but to each his own!

Originally Posted by LarryInRI

The calibrated settings simply adjust the TV to comply with the standards of the film and television industries -- nothing more than that. Personal preferences and 'pop' are not a part of the specification.

Most viewers are conditioned to watching an uncalibrated CRT where the color temperature is about 9500K. That blue-white was arrrived at through focus groups. that's exactly the reason that Normal and Cool are included as choices. Don't forget, manufacturers of TVs are for-profit companies and if the people want to see, say, purple faces, the company will set their TV to produce purple faces.

There is no reason the watch a calibrated screen other than to see exactly the creation that the director and cinematographer produced. It's that simple. And, of course, no one demands that you must to do that.



Please don't go into the service menu and 'play' with the settings. It will be a futile and potentially destructive effort.

Larry

Originally Posted by teerump

Very well put...
As far as "playing" with the service menu, that's not what I meant. My question was are there specific values in there that can dial down the red push? I'm NOT going to go in there and starting pushing buttons, trust me.

I just didn't know if say for example.. RCUT increases or decreases redness. Not saying it does, just using it as an example, didn't know if it's that simple or not or is it more of a combination of adjustments.

Originally Posted by LarryInRI

teerump,

Please define what you mean by 'red push.' There is a specific technical meaning to that phrase and I'm not sure that that's what you are talking about.

Larry

Originally Posted by LarryInRI

Orta,

Are you in the right thread?

Larry

Originally Posted by Orta

oh god how did this get in here i am not good with computer.

Originally Posted by teerump

Ok, I may have the terminology wrong..but the picture has a reddish tint to it... meaning flesh tones are more red than they should be. In the pic. menu I've adjusted the color and tint, but can't really seem to get the redness out. It's not horrible, but even my wife noticed, that says alot!

This isn't my MAIN TV for the house but will be used alot, I was just hoping to get the best pic out of it that I can without alot of trouble. I'm about done, and just ready to enjoy it... was hoping to get the red out though.

I hope that makes sense!?

Originally Posted by Gov

Robi...any custom settings you can post?

Originally Posted by robi1138

Gov,

Here are my Custom settings for Warm1 with charts. I like this better than Game mode now for everyday TV watching but THX is still more color accurate. I compensated by turning the Color down a bit in the user menu from 42 to 37. Reds aren't as oversaturated now and all three primaries look more similar to the THX mode. Also Gamma is more accurate at Mid than Normal.

Custom
Contrast 65 (evening viewing)
Brightness 72
Color 37
Tint 0

W/B high R +7
W/B high B -2
W/B low R +2
W/B low B 0

Gamma: Mid
Panel: Mid

Originally Posted by Gov

Looks good! What was the gamma in normal? Also, your brightness is set much higher than mine. I have mine at 53, gamma Mid, panel Mid. According to the pluge pattern, I should have brightness at 60, but I do like to turn it a bit lower to get those blacks a bit blacker

Originally Posted by robi1138

Gamma was about 1.9 at Normal. I set my black to the AVSHD disc pluge but I don't go all the way down to 16 either...The last blinking light for me is 18 or 19 to keep it a little blacker. On an all black screen you can visibly see the overall brightness jump when you hit a certain point on the Blackness scale. It turns out that correct black is usually one click below this but I back it off a bit more too.

Originally Posted by Make73

LarryInRI, so you don´t wanna answer to my questions about your method of calibration where you loose a lot of overall contrast and power of light?

I don´t wonder why someones complaining about dark picture...

If you do things right it´s not dark, it´s only calibrated with balanced grey scale and natural color temperature.

Maby there is someone else who have X1 and calorimeter?

Just a little comparing while we have same model of calorimeter.
My´n blacklevel is not yet dropped, but you can get point what I´m talking about.
Black level drop should not affect higher % of gray, just 0 IRE.

LarryInRI, model 50X1, average gamma 2.12, Contrast 1273:1
black
0 IRE = 0.019 ftL / 0.07 cd/m2
10 IRE = 0.190 ftL / 0.65 cd/m2
20 IRE = 0.809 ftL / 2.77 cd/m2
30 IRE = 1.847 ftL / 6.33 cd/m2
40 IRE = 3.417 ftL / 11.71 cd/m2
50 IRE = 5.527 ftL / 18.93 cd/m2
60 IRE = 8.110 ftL / 27.79 cd/m2
70 IRE = 11.302 ftL / 38.72 cd/m2
80 IRE = 15.178 ftL / 52 cd/m2
90 IRE = 19.706 ftL / 67.51 cd/m2
100 IRE = 24.241 ftL / 83.05 cd/m2
white

Make73, model 50C10, average gamma 2.01, Contrast 6034:1
black
0 IRE = 0.008 ftL / 0.03 cd/m2
10 IRE = 0.458 ftL / 1.57 cd/m2
20 IRE = 1.822 ftL / 6.24 cd/m2
30 IRE = 4.032 ftL / 13.81 cd/m2
40 IRE = 7.276 ftL / 24.93 cd/m2
50 IRE = 11.609 ftL / 39.77 cd/m2
60 IRE = 16.417 ftL / 56.24 cd/m2
70 IRE = 22.378 ftL / 76.67 cd/m2
80 IRE = 29.009 ftL / 99,38 cd/m2
90 IRE = 37.265 ftL / 127.67 cd/m2
100 IRE = 45.908 ftL / 157.28 cd/m2
white

ftL = Foot Lambert
cd/m2 = Candela Per Square Meter

Difference is something like half less/more power of light.

When we´re talking about adjustments in service menu it´s easier to understand when you think that DRV is contrast of color and CUT is brightness of color.
Like in user menu adjusting brightness have more effect than adjusting contrast.
That´s why we start by adjusting 80IRE at first with DRV settings.
And one more time, it´s not a bad thing to always measure whole grey scale after doing adjustments in service menu, in that way you can notice how those changes affects also to lower IRE´s.
It takes more time, but maby results are also better than just measuring with 80% and 30% of luminence patterns.
Of course you should do basic settings in user menu before calibration.

If green is higher than red and blue it may be only option to lower G-DRV because there´s not so much you can raise R-DRV, however that was in my case.
Read from somewhere that you should not adjust DRV´s to FF because that´s maximum value and may cause damage to panel.

Sincerely yours

Originally Posted by donnymac51

robbi,

mjmorrison,

to show the differences in set my normal gamma is 2.26 and my mid gamma is 2.05....way different than ..50v10 feb09 build date

Originally Posted by mjmorrison

Have you applied the THX patch and if so did your gamma settings change to something closer to mine. Seems like there are a number of things on these panels that are slightly different, depending on build date.

Mike

Originally Posted by donnymac51

robi,

normal gives a higher gamma than mid... not sure how you got a lower one...try it again...what is your ftl at 100%

Originally Posted by LarryInRI

I don't like a 45 ftL picture. It hurts my eyes.

The DRVs cannot be made to go higher than FFh. Panasonic recommends a maximum of FCh.

(BTW, if you read my posts, you'll know that I understand the basics about calibration.)

Larry

Originally Posted by Make73

I expected something like that
That´s why asked if someone else have X1 and calorimeter.
Those instructions to adjust service menu settings was pointed to someone who decide to buy own calorimeter and do it by himself.

Yes you know basic things, but if you look how most of sets here are calibrated you could even try it different way like experimental test or something
It would be service for those who likes more light in picture, like an option to choose from.

Many times with forums is problem when someone old member who have xxxx number of wroted posts and got respect from others, no one dares to questionable his opinions.

Why even buy modern direct view set with high contrast when maximum ftL is set to under 25

Okay, if you like it that dark way and you´re happy, then everything is ok
btw, most of film material stands to between 40-70IRE so you don´t have to worry about melting eyes with 45ftL

FCh is indeed recommended maximum value, read from AVforums (UK) ISF certified calibrator report where R-DRV was set to FEh so I also dare to do that.

However those who use your offsets should now know why picture is so dark without power of light.

There´s also other way to do calibration where you don´t loose overall contrast that dramatical.
Calibrating is not space science, so go and try it by yourself !

Originally Posted by LarryInRI

There is nothing in the service menu that will allow more brightness than the Contrast control. You can find that out by doing your own experimenting. I am not going to do it for you.

You can get up to 35 ftL in the Cinema mode (Movie mode in Finland?). You many be able to get 50 ftL in the Vivid mode (Dynamic mode in Finland?)

Originally Posted by Make73

Calibrating is not space science, so go and try it by yourself !