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to buy or not to buy? That is the question! - Page 2

post #31 of 162
kate*, if you think the Squeezebox has too much 'cheese factor' (I don't, but aesthetic taste is in the eye of the beholder, of course. For example, lots of people love the black glossy frames on plasma & lcd panels while they remind me of typically garish, tacky Italian furniture). Sonos is a similar but more expensive system that is an alternative to the Squeezebox and it provides for the possibility of more out-of-the-box ease of use as well. You can usually find them in the Magnolia/high-end rooms of Best Buy home theater depts. In this day and age, I see no point in cd players.. digital file playback is the way to go.. so much more versatile and convenient with every bit as good of a listening experience (as long as you have the time and inclination to rip your CDs & even vinyl to your computer first).

As far as the advice you've been receiving here, bare in mind, the gist of it has been coming from one side of what I will call the 'great audio debate'. I happen to agree with the arguments of this side, which are much more compelling to my mind. But if you go to some other forums, you'll likely hear something very different, i.e., that a $1000-$2000+ cd player or DAC upgrade will make a big difference in the quality of your listening experience. These latter ideas are based upon a certain set of (what I'm convinced are false) assumptions and attitudes which run counter to many of the ideas discussed within this thread.

I only raise this point because the deeper and longer you look into these questions, the more confusing and conflicting the advice will get. Doesn't mean you have to default to the standard, wishy-washy 'it's all opinion', we should respect everyone's arguments equally, etc., as I do think one side has more validity than the other. Only that, be prepared to be subjected to vehemently different notions of what your audio equipment priorities should be, whether the topic be CD players, DACs, power cords & other cables, as well as the audibility differences between lossless vs some lossy music file formats.

One thing virtually everyone agrees upon is that the different lossless file formats (flac, apple lossless, etc.) are every bit as good as wav and a lot more versatile to boot.
post #32 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

kate*, if you think the Squeezebox has too much 'cheese factor' (I don't, but aesthetic taste is in the eye of the beholder, of course. For example, lots of people love the black glossy frames on plasma & lcd panels while they remind me of typically garish, tacky Italian furniture). Sonos is a similar but more expensive system that is an alternative to the Squeezebox and it provides for the possibility of more out-of-the-box ease of use as well. You can usually find them in the Magnolia/high-end rooms of Best Buy home theater depts. In this day and age, I see no point in cd players.. digital file playback is the way to go.. so much more versatile and convenient with every bit as good of a listening experience (as long as you have the time and inclination to rip your CDs & even vinyl to your computer first).

As far as the advice you've been receiving here, bare in mind, the gist of it has been coming from one side of what I will call the 'great audio debate'. I happen to agree with the arguments of this side, which are much more compelling to my mind. But if you go to some other forums, you'll likely hear something very different, i.e., that a $1000-$2000+ cd player or DAC upgrade will make a big difference in the quality of your listening experience. These latter ideas are based upon a certain set of (what I'm convinced are false) assumptions and attitudes which run counter to many of the ideas discussed within this thread.

I only raise this point because the deeper and longer you look into these questions, the more confusing and conflicting the advice will get. Doesn't mean you have to default to the standard, wishy-washy 'it's all opinion', we should respect everyone's arguments equally, etc., as I do think one side has more validity than the other. Only that, be prepared to be subjected to vehemently different notions of what your audio equipment priorities should be, whether the topic be CD players, DACs, power cords & other cables, as well as the audibility differences between lossless vs some lossy music file formats.

One thing virtually everyone agrees upon is that the different lossless file formats (flac, apple lossless, etc.) are every bit as good as wav and a lot more versatile to boot.

OMG!! Thank you.
post #33 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysay View Post

I don't think I ever mentioned MP3. Lossless format is all I talked about. If you prever WAV, it is your choice. For myself, WAV is not better than any of the lossless format that I'm using including Apple lossles. I'm not really sure that I am communicating myself well enough for you to understand that.

You're probably right about H/K ipod dock. It's probably one of those regular dock that uses the iPod DAC. Wadia is supposed to be different. I have not heard it yet but based on what I've read so far, it gets digital signal from the iPod and use its own DAC.

Hello Ysay,

Dont worry you are communicating perfectly well, the problem is on my side, because all this is very new to me, I always considered itunes and other forms of "digital" music (I know CD is digital, but I am refering to the ones stored in the computer) to be very bad.

So the computer as a hi-fi component never appealed to me, so forgive me for being some what ignorant in this area.

With this thread, you guys are actually opening my eyes to a new horizon, if I have the possibility to put all my old CDs and all the current CDs I listen to inside a computer, without loss of quality, that would be a HUGE step, and the perfect way to organiz my music, video and photos!

As far as the H/K dock goes, for me it is garbage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ysay View Post

A/B test requires proper equipment and setup. Everything must be set to provide the same level of output otherwise, an equipment with higher gain can easily be mistakenly judged as better.

Not a problem with the way I have the MacMini setup. I have it connected using optical cable. I'm not a fan of computer souncard.

The MacMini is a very elegant way to have a media computer, its small, silent, and most probably have great soung.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

kate*, if you think the Squeezebox has too much 'cheese factor' (I don't, but aesthetic taste is in the eye of the beholder, of course. For example, lots of people love the black glossy frames on plasma & lcd panels while they remind me of typically garish, tacky Italian furniture). Sonos is a similar but more expensive system that is an alternative to the Squeezebox and it provides for the possibility of more out-of-the-box ease of use as well. You can usually find them in the Magnolia/high-end rooms of Best Buy home theater depts. In this day and age, I see no point in cd players.. digital file playback is the way to go.. so much more versatile and convenient with every bit as good of a listening experience (as long as you have the time and inclination to rip your CDs & even vinyl to your computer first).

As far as the advice you've been receiving here, bare in mind, the gist of it has been coming from one side of what I will call the 'great audio debate'. I happen to agree with the arguments of this side, which are much more compelling to my mind. But if you go to some other forums, you'll likely hear something very different, i.e., that a $1000-$2000+ cd player or DAC upgrade will make a big difference in the quality of your listening experience. These latter ideas are based upon a certain set of (what I'm convinced are false) assumptions and attitudes which run counter to many of the ideas discussed within this thread.

I only raise this point because the deeper and longer you look into these questions, the more confusing and conflicting the advice will get. Doesn't mean you have to default to the standard, wishy-washy 'it's all opinion', we should respect everyone's arguments equally, etc., as I do think one side has more validity than the other. Only that, be prepared to be subjected to vehemently different notions of what your audio equipment priorities should be, whether the topic be CD players, DACs, power cords & other cables, as well as the audibility differences between lossless vs some lossy music file formats.

One thing virtually everyone agrees upon is that the different lossless file formats (flac, apple lossless, etc.) are every bit as good as wav and a lot more versatile to boot.

Hello CruelInventions,

Thank you very much, as I said to Ysay, you guys are opening me eyes to something very new.

I pretty much thought that this form of digital music was for "walkman" only, and should not be used in a Home-Theater or a Hi-fi gear.

I will certanly see the possibility of a HTPC, if I can organize all my music, video and photos in a computer that can be acessed thru a remote control, it will certainly be lovely.

Thank you very much for your help!
post #34 of 162
it bears repeating here that wav files and lossless files are indistinguishable from one another... what comes out is the exact same thing...
post #35 of 162
Hi Kate*, Miss *Pink Rotel,

About your Marantz SA-8001 problem reading discs.

Try a can of compress air, and blow some inside the player with the tray open, towards
the laser lens.
Also, you can use a lens cleaner disc.
Anf finally, if it gives you still problems, after doing these two simple operations,
remove the top cover of your player (don't forget to unplug it from it's A/C outlet), then check if you can see the laser lens; if not, remove the two or four screws of the top
from the transport drive, and carefully wet a Q-Tip with isopropyl alcohol (making sure that you take off the excess liquid, so it is just slightly moist), then swipe very gently
across the laser lens; then using the opposite side of the Q-Tip, dry the laser lens again very gently with very light pressure (so you don't damage the laser lens assembly).
Reinstal the roof of the transport drive back with the screws, and reinstall the top cover of your player. Reconnect the A/C cord, put a disc in, and check the result.

Please, let me know if this takes care of your problem.

Regards,

____________________
Bob >>> Lordoftherings


Note: I believe that the future of High resolution Music is already upon us, the Blu-Ray
Disc. The music concerts that you get from blu-rays is in my opinion better than CD of
course, but also better than SACD. And we will see more of these in the future. What could be better than that, High Resolution Picture, mix with High Resolution Audio?
This is the Ultimate Experience.
post #36 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

it bears repeating here that wav files and lossless files are indistinguishable from one another... what comes out is the exact same thing...

Very true, and you can compile all your music collection from any sources, into your computer, in WAV files.

Cheers,

______
Bob
post #37 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

Very true, and you can compile all your music collection from any sources, into your computer, in WAV files.

you can save them all as wav files, but disk space is a horrible thing to waste...

even big drives fill up fast... there's no reason at all to use wav files over lossless ones...
post #38 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

you can save them all as wav files, but disk space is a horrible thing to waste...

even big drives fill up fast... there's no reason at all to use wav files over lossless ones...

About 1 or 2-terabytes hard drive capacity? Or perhaps an external server box with large capacity? Like a music storage and server system. Should be good for about 5,000 CDs.
Agree about WAV files vs FLAC lossless files.

Cheers,

______ Bob

P.S. Is this how you spell "terabyte"? I guess it is.
post #39 of 162
don't forget that in a "safety first" configuration, you are going to be backing up all that data... in my "homebrew pseudo-server", i have 2tb, 1tb primary, 1tb backup... granted, you CAN have what we used to refer to as a "dasd farm" back in the old days... all depends on what you want to do... far be it from me to suggest that people not buy hard drives...

you DON'T want to have to rip all those cd's again...

yup, terabytes...
post #40 of 162
Cool man, you seem well organised, with plenty of space...

And if you have a jukebox CD player with 500 CDs storage space, you can program it to play them all automatically. You just have to repeat the process 10 times, and Voila!

Terabyte(s), Yep.
post #41 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

Cool man, you seem well organised, with plenty of space...

i wish i could tell you that i hadn't learned this lesson the hard way...
post #42 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

it bears repeating here that wav files and lossless files are indistinguishable from one another... what comes out is the exact same thing...

And, all lossless codecs (e.g., FLAC, ALAC, etc) produce equivalent results.
post #43 of 162
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordoftherings View Post

Hi Kate*, Miss *Pink Rotel,

About your Marantz SA-8001 problem reading discs.

Try a can of compress air, and blow some inside the player with the tray open, towards
the laser lens.
Also, you can use a lens cleaner disc.
Anf finally, if it gives you still problems, after doing these two simple operations,
remove the top cover of your player...carefully wet a Q-Tip with isopropyl alcohol (making sure that you take off the excess liquid, so it is just slightly moist), then swipe very gently...then using the opposite side of the Q-Tip, dry the laser lens again very gently with very light pressure...Note: I believe that the future of High resolution Music is already upon us, the Blu-Ray
Disc. The music concerts that you get from blu-rays is in my opinion better than CD of
course, but also better than SACD. And we will see more of these in the future. What could be better than that, High Resolution Picture, mix with High Resolution Audio?
This is the Ultimate Experience.

Rob, I think I got that covered, the something else is broken, and its not the lenses, or the optical unit, the problem is something else!



---------------------

I think I got into a conclusion.

I will buy the Benchmark DAC1 and a HTPC, hook the HTP to the DAC1 using optical fiber or maybe coax and connect the DAC1 outputs to the receiver/processor/pre.

Might not be very elegant, but should render satisfactory results.

It is getting hard to decide between 2 CD players, the SA-7003 is a SACD player too, but it would be used as CD Player...

Nobody in the forum was able to fully convice me which is better, which would produce better sound quality, which would give me a better sound stage.

I might regret no choosing the RCD-1072 or the SA-7003, but I think the HTPC+DAC will be the best option.

Thank you all!
post #44 of 162
kate, why bother with the external dac?

just run the spdif output to the avr/pre-pro and use the dac in that.
post #45 of 162
Hi Kate,
My set up will be an Oppo 980H (U$180)+ Cambridge DacMagic (U$400).

The player will be a transport for my CDs and SACDs, and the DAC (through its USB input) will sent my terabyte collection of lossless to my stereo. With the mac remote, I can control iTunes via "front row" of my MacBook, all the 2000 CDs in WAV.

Cheap and very good quality, the best of the 2 worlds.
This DAC is a winner, five stars in many reviews.

Best wishes,
Eduardo
PS please come back to HTforum!
post #46 of 162
kate, Benchmark DAC1 is over priced. No need to spend that much to get top quality performance from DAC. Much cheaper ones (including ccotenj's suggestion) can do just as well. Save your money for acoustic treatments.
post #47 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

kate, why bother with the external dac?

just run the spdif output to the avr/pre-pro and use the dac in that.

This is often the very best solution, because many AVRs convert all analog inputs back to digital and then back again to analog. They accept digital inputs as-is performing only one conversion to analog. This avoids an unecessary pair of conversions.
post #48 of 162
a modern, state-of-art (and cheap) DAC like the new Cambridge DacMagic delivery beautiful analog signal to the amplifier...we dont talk about receivers here...
post #49 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

This is often the very best solution, because many AVRs convert all analog inputs back to digital and then back again to analog. They accept digital inputs as-is performing only one conversion to analog. This avoids an unecessary pair of conversions.

yup. and unless one has a pristine listening environment, it allows you to take advantage of bass management, equalization, etc. in the avr without doing the adc/dac again.
post #50 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by galvs View Post

a modern, state-of-art (and cheap) DAC like the new Cambridge DacMagic delivery beautiful analog signal to the amplifier...we dont talk about receivers here...

you are missing a lot then...
post #51 of 162
The sound of my Onkyo DX-7555 is much better via the analog output than the digital output converted by my Onkyo TX-SR706. I've never preferred the DAC's in the receivers I've owned. My previous Yamaha receiver didn't do as good a job as a stand alone CD player either.

A $500 CD player is going to have a better DAC than a $1000 receiver, in most cases.
post #52 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i wish i could tell you that i hadn't learned this lesson the hard way...

post #53 of 162
Quote:


A $500 CD player is going to have a better DAC than a $1000 receiver, in most cases.

Wishful thinking.
post #54 of 162
Quote:


A $500 CD player is going to have a better DAC than a $1000 receiver, in most cases.

Someone who presents a claim without supporting data. Is there a term for this kind of replies?
post #55 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvtdude View Post

A $500 CD player is going to have a better DAC than a $1000 receiver, in most cases.

Still scratching my head on this one?

But I have a $2000+ AVR and an $800 DVD SACD player...
post #56 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnarus View Post

Wishful thinking.

Well, my 7555 has the same Wolfson DAC as the Cambridge player, and my 706 doesn't.
post #57 of 162
Hi kate*,

Some very good advices here from few members.

To add a little more, the DAC1 seems very nice. It is less than $999 US dollars, retail.
Seems to be a top notch performer, with excellent figure numbers about noise, distortion, dynanic range, low jitter, well implemented circuits, high quality Dacs, etc.
Very impressive specs indeed, with a high CUTE factor with it's small size.

Also a review of the Rotel RCD-1072 CD player can be found from "The Absolute Sound",
February/March 2004, issue #146, by Alan Taffel.
The Rotel RCD-1072 have two Burr-Brown PCM-1732 Dacs in it, in a differential mode configuration, with greatly reduce digital jitter. It also have the well known Pacific Microsonics filter, the PM 200 HDCD filter. The Burr-Brown Dacs working in tandem with the PM HDCD filter, produce an excellent sound with wide dynamic range.
Also the 1072 was compared to the Arcam DV-27, that cost $2,500, and the Rotel is not far behind for CD sound performance. By the way, the Rotel 1072 retails for only $699 US dollars, but you can find it for much less now.
I don't know how to bring this review here, maybe someone can help.
If not, it will be my pleasure to mention the main extrats of that review. Just ask me, and I will provide to you.

But in the end, I do believe that you can save yourself some precious dollars by following the advices from some members, like for example: ccotenj.

Best regards,

______
LOTR

Note: ---> And like another member previously mentioned; Don't go away, we are quite a few people here, trying to help you the best we can, from experience and knowledge.
And don't forget; We luv you all.
post #58 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by localnet View Post

Still scratching my head on this one?

But I have a $2000+ AVR and an $800 DVD SACD player...

Why would receiver that has so many things to do have a DAC that was as good as dedicated CD player? Receivers are great, but they're all about compromise. The power supply for an amp is big, for a preamp smaller, and for a tuner really small. They have to use one that works for all three, but is ideal for none of them. This is just one of a number of examples why separate components are better.

The CD player will have a higher percentage of its budget set aside for the DAC than a receiver. If the DAC's in receivers were as good or better than standalone CD players you'd see a lot more transports being sold.
post #59 of 162
http://stereophile.com/cdplayers/108onk/index.html

Find the webpage, copy the address. Click the hyperlink tool (looks like the Earth with an oval in front of it), then paste the link. Piece of cake.
post #60 of 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvtdude View Post

http://stereophile.com/cdplayers/108onk/index.html

Find the webpage, copy the address. Click the hyperlink tool (looks like the Earth with an oval in front of it), then paste the link. Piece of cake.

Hi,

Can you do the same thing with the review of the Rotel RCD-1072 CD player,
from "The Absolute Sound" mag., February/march 2004, issue #146, by Alan Taffel?

Will greatly appreciate, & Cheers,

______
Bob
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