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RPCRT Overscan Reduction - SHIMMING - Page 5

post #121 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelo M View Post

superleo,

How do you do a screengrab like that?

There are many programs out there to do screen captures. If you search there are commercial grade ones, shareware and freeware.

In the internet era you can almost always find something that is freeware or open software. The one I'm using is Fast Stone Capture, not the best but it gets the job done and best of all... its free.
post #122 of 179
thanks....
post #123 of 179
No software required screen grab is a basic Windows function, just display what you want to capture and press the Print Screen button on the keyboard, which copies the image data to the clip board, then open Paint under the Programs/Accessories menu and select past, you can now crop the image and save it.
You can past into any application that handles graphics not just MS Paint, this method also works just as well for video still frames provided you are not using a video player that uses the old video overlay for output, in which case you will get a black screen.
post #124 of 179
thanks again, just tried it and works great!
post #125 of 179
if you do windows button + prt screen then you will capture only working window.
post #126 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Owen View Post

then open Paint under the Programs/Accessories menu and select past, you can now crop the image and save it.
You can past into any application


When you say past do you actually mean paste? That one kinda threw me, there...




b
post #127 of 179
Thread Starter 
Just some show and tell of what the shimming mod does.

As you can see, ALL the stats are visible where they were partially visible before.





post #128 of 179
Leo -

Too bad your shots are of SD and not HD. When do we get to see HD from your set???




This set is NOT shimmed, and still it looks great. Would look even better with the shimming op -


These were sent to me by Joe Barnhart by email, from shots he personally took of his PRO 510HD Elite -

Calibrated by yours truly, of course...





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post #129 of 179
Does anyone know if shimming a DLP has been attempted? My Toshiba 52hm84 has horrible overscan and shimming has crossed my mind.
post #130 of 179
His set is what? 7-8 years old now? Finished product after cleaning and calibration, including shimming op for overscan redux

Be sure to hit F11 for the total effect

b

Bruce - blurred from slight movement in scene



Lilu not ready to give up on Bruce's help




post #131 of 179
More from Dr. Tom's Pioneer Elite 720 CRT (7-8 yrs old?)

Remember to hit F11 to get the total effect

Overall pic from a distance - got blueish that way for some reason, but shows his whole setup...



real thing, up close and personal



For those who think I use too much black crush. Personally, I think this sets up too much white crush, but take your pick...



Optical transparency in action delivering depth, from freshly cleaned optics. Notice the reflection of the cop's helmet at the top of the shot





"she jumped -"



The priest



Priest with black crush - somewhat dim but accurate forehead luminance



Priest with white crush (there is no in between), with forehead blasted with light. But I prefer this one anyway - with the white crush - in this case!



post #132 of 179
Sorry, these shoulda been brighter in the darks, will do better next time -









post #133 of 179
In case anyone has any questions about how tight the res can get on triple-gun CRT, as in there have been reports of not being able to see lettering clearly...

How about fine print?




camera zoomed in a bit, same pic on screen



Same pic again, camera lens zoomed in QUITE a bit, capturing the actual vertical ribs of the lenticular screen. NOBODY watches video THIS close, but you could!



post #134 of 179
Thread Starter 
final adjustments.









post #135 of 179
Thread Starter 
HD AVS709.



post #136 of 179
Thread Starter 
contrast, brightness and color. although you can't really tell through this shots but it gives a general idea.



post #137 of 179
Great job Leo! Can't wait to see it in person. You've obviously left me very little to do once I get there!



b
post #138 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Great job Leo! Can't wait to see it in person. You've obviously left me very little to do once I get there!



b

For all of you RPCRT lovers, and for those of you that would like to not only extend the life of your set but to squeeze every ounce of performance possible from it... Mr. Bob is coming to Texas. So far he will be in Dallas, San Antonio and Houston. If you are in any of these cities or any other in between and would like to take part you can PM myself and I'll get you in contact with the organizer.

Bob I'm looking forward for you to be here. I have a couple of minor issues with my geometry and I'm sure that you can improve the focus on it among the overall picture.

Very much looking forward to it.
post #139 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

final adjustments.


Wow that looks great!

On my Pioneer I can’t get my last three vertical lines to the left and right edges of the screen anywhere near that straight and all of my horizontal lines either slant up or down somewhat at the very ends.

Seeing your pic makes me want to start all over from scratch to see if I can achieve what you did. I am not sure if I can but perhaps disconnecting the conv board might reset convergence in memory and I can try.
post #140 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post

Wow that looks great!

On my Pioneer I can’t get my last three vertical lines to the left and right edges of the screen anywhere near that straight and all of my horizontal lines either slant up or down somewhat at the very ends.

Seeing your pic makes me want to start all over from scratch to see if I can achieve what you did. I am not sure if I can but perhaps disconnecting the conv board might reset convergence in memory and I can try.

Thank you Socio. The only experience I have is with the Hitachi, but I'm sure others can chime in regarding the Pios.

I did my geometry several times before I was happy. I still have a minor issue on the right bottom part of the set, that nobody notices it, but I know is there, and I hope with Bob's help it'll be perfect.

I love the way the overscan turned out. Before I had cut out tickers and scores, now everything is visible.
post #141 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post

Wow that looks great!

On my Pioneer I can’t get my last three vertical lines to the left and right edges of the screen anywhere near that straight and all of my horizontal lines either slant up or down somewhat at the very ends.

Seeing your pic makes me want to start all over from scratch to see if I can achieve what you did. I am not sure if I can but perhaps disconnecting the conv board might reset convergence in memory and I can try.

Disco'ing the conv bd will NOT reset everything, and believe me that's NOT what you want to do anyway! You gotta build on the work of the factory to get the degree of excellence you want, the kind I demand of each and every display in my cals. A newbie to this will never even come close, if he chooses to be a cowboy and do things in experimental ways, like that.

"Perhaps" is the key word here...



Anyone who owns a nice AV receiver these days and has an elaborate sound and video system knows NOT to just start pressing buttons till it finally comes out right!



That kind of practice is a thing of the past these days, things are far too sophisticated for that anymore, hitting buttons till it comes out right just gets you farther and farther away from your goal.

HD displays are no different.

Even recentering the point sys at all points doesn't work on a Pio, like it does on a Mit. They are all a bit different, and I know exactly how to correct what you're talking about to the highest extent possible. And resetting it all - clearing all settings back to some master starting point on the assembly line - is NOT it.

For instance, you'll never get the hor lines to ever be perfect at the very ends at all points on the screen. Most of them will always slant a little up or a little down at the very ends, and o'scan redux doesn't help any - tho it's highly worth doing anyway, for the incredible good it DOES do, on other levels. You can only get 98% there at the ends of the hor lines, it's endemic to the genre. Ceiling pjs can get it right, but they were designed with a WHOLE lot more capacity for such things than the pricepoint of CRT RPTV ever allowed for.

And the last 3-4 vert lines on each side need VERY special handling.

Took me years to learn exactly what to do, but now it's second nature and takes no time extra at all, over and above the time and attention I give each display in all my cals, when the unit is still fresh OOB. If it has been worked on and the problems are inadvertently exacerbated before I get there, I make no promises other than yes I WILL get it back to the garden, tho it may take a little longer...

IOW, you don't want to be messing around with your display uncarefully or experimentally, if you expect the best pricing on my calibrations or those of any other pro...




b
post #142 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

contrast, brightness and color. although you can't really tell through this shots but it gives a general idea.

Great job!

One thing I noticed after shimming our Hitachi 51F59A is the display shows more vignetting, but not enough to be a bother. Your pics do show vignetting. In real world viewing I don't notice it, but in test patterns it does show up. Enjoy the set. Shimming + calibration = Joy.

Regards
post #143 of 179
Couldn't agree more!



What's vignetting?



b
post #144 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Bob View Post

Couldn't agree more!



What's vignetting?



b

I had to looked it up ...

From Wikipedia:

"In photography and optics, vignetting (pronounced /vɪnˈjɛtˌɪŋ/) is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation at the periphery compared to the image centre. The word vignette, from the same root as vine, originally referred to a decorative border in a book. Later, the word came to be used for a photographic portrait which is clear in the centre, and fades off at the edges. A similar effect occurs when filming projected images or movies off a projection screen, the so-called hotspot, defining a cheap home-movie look where no proper telecine is used."

I believe this is one of the drawbacks/limitations from CRT technology. Although as mentioned this is not an issue on real viewing environment.
post #145 of 179
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summit HDTV View Post


Great job!

.... Enjoy the set. Shimming + calibration = Joy.

Regards

Thanks BTW. Many hours of pure enjoyment doing tweaks and mods. I know that for you professionals is just a matter of a few hours while for us mortals means endless hours of enjoyment before the joy, but well worth it.
post #146 of 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by superleo View Post

I had to looked it up ...

From Wikipedia:

"In photography and optics, vignetting (pronounced /vɪnˈjɛtˌɪŋ/) is a reduction of an image's brightness or saturation at the periphery compared to the image centre. The word vignette, from the same root as vine, originally referred to a decorative border in a book. Later, the word came to be used for a photographic portrait which is clear in the centre, and fades off at the edges. A similar effect occurs when filming projected images or movies off a projection screen, the so-called hotspot, defining a cheap home-movie look where no proper telecine is used."

I believe this is one of the drawbacks/limitations from CRT technology. Although as mentioned this is not an issue on real viewing environment.

Right. The corners of the shimmed image show a reduced brightness. The camera captures it very well. I think the reduced corner brightness is a fallout from pushing the CRT face to it's limit as a result of the shimming mod. When the CRT is not shimmed you're using less edge of the CRT face, hence less vignetting. Again this is not a knock... I very much prefer the shimmed image. The increase in detail makes this a worthwhile mod.

Regards
post #147 of 179
Hm. I noticed no increase in the vignetting I had been noticing all along in the pix - but never in the actual image - due to the shimming.

But then I followed the original shimming by expanding my images to fill the unused edges of my CRTs more, then shimmed some more to get back where I had it before.

But that would mean I would see even more vignetting, right? Because more of the CRT face edge would be visible to the screen.

It makes sense that when you shim the CRTs, the image has to go at more of an angle to get out to the edges of the viewscreen, which has not moved. Perhaps that's why there's more vignetting.

Yet I still see totally negligible vignetting while watching the screen, if any at all. Guess CRT is lucky that way, that it takes a camera to even notice it...



b
post #148 of 179
Shot in daytime with blinds drawn, but not in total darkness

post #149 of 179
These are probably a bit dark, but didn't know that till I uploaded them. Would shoot them a bit lighter in the blacks if I were to reshoot them









post #150 of 179
















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