*Official Diva by Swans Support Thread * - Page 3  

codemarine-

How did NudieBlues post that EXACT picture 5 days before you did??

Bruce

Picture, if you will, getting a call from your boss to leave work an hour and a half early on a Friday to meet him for "Macho Nachos" and happy hour margaritas over a game of chess. You get toasted while beating the pants off your boss, smoke a little M.J. with the sun and the top going down. Then you fire up the XGA LCD projector and watch a 15' diag image of a fresh DVD of Roy Orbison's "Black and White Night" in DTS5.1 on your new Diva's..... Ahhhhhhhh..... Smoooooth! Pure audio heaven!

Oh! And your wife is cool with near ref levels as long as it sounds this sweeeeet! Who needs a club? Ain't life grand!?

skip hunt

Whoa, whoa!

I made my "Made In China" comments on page ONE 5 hrs. ago from work and come back tonight to see this thread is on it's 3rd page! Isn't it amazing how Diva phenomenon has grown?

Mark and members, I'm happy to make the comments regarding the made in China issue.

I hope to visit my company's factory one day and perhaps tour the Hi-Vi factory as well.

BTW, I do wish Stereophie Guide to Home Theater publishes a review of the the Divas in the next few months. It would be a great injustice if any major publication not to take the Diva's seriously. Unless they're affraid that they'll offend other manufacturers who have advertising, marketing, distribution and dealer networks...

Keep up the great work Mark and company...

Steve, you are right. After thinking about the amount of Diva-related traffic I see around here, I can easily imagine that they might get a hefty volume of email. And thanks, I probably will toss out a question or two for the Diva experts here!

Thanks Mark. I apologize, I should not have been so grumbly. I am just hell-bent on getting a set of Divas (my treat to myself for finishing my prelims), and I simply can't understand why everyone else in the world is not devoting all of their time toward my goal:)

In short, there is no need to chastise anyone. (Maybe, though, you should consider an autoresponse to emails, just to reassure us that you have received them and will get in touch with us at your first opportunity?)

I will put some questions in a separate message, and anyone who might wish to chip in advice: it will be appreciated!

Thanks!

Mark,

I was wondering...AV123 must incurr some fairly helfty charges for shipping these across the Pacific. I hope all are ship via ocean freight, otherwise the air bill will kill ya!

We shipp multiport Integrated RJ45s via ocean and it's not bad - but try sending them by air and it's a doozie.

BTW, is production to stop in Feb for CNY?

Here is a question to which I just received an answer from Russell Woolfolk, but I would value other opinions from Diva owners and HT buffs (since I'm a newbie), so here goes:

My receiver is a Denon 3802, and I would like speakers that are good for both Home Theater/Surround and for music. I am thinking of a setup consisting of a sub, Diva 4.1s (or better) for the front, a C3 center, and R3s or 2.1s for the surrounds.

I live in a townhouse, so I won't be playing at volume levels that will overly startle the neighors or negatively affect the structural integrity of my apartment. My living room is roughly 15'x15', but a stairway takes up about 2/3 of the length of the left side. Here is my crude ASCII representation:

.........______________
HH..............TV.........|
HH...........................|
HH...........................|
HH...........................|
HH...........................|
|.............................|
|__/..______..........__|
~Door~~~~Window~~


1) Would you recommend the R3s for the surrounds, or the 2.1s? I will probably use them more for HT than for music, but I would like to keep the music option open...

2) I want good musical performance, so I have considered 6.1s for the front L/R. Would this be overkill for my tiny living room and receiver? (Note that I am hoping that these speakers will be part of my system for a long, long time!)

Thanks for any input!

Matt

Matt,
I'm also using the Denon-3802 with my Diva set-up: 6.1's, 2.1's (rear center), R3's and the C3. The Denon runs the speakers fine, as a matter of fact I had my 10 year old Pioneer receiver running them before I bought the Denon and had no problems. If you search around you'll find varying opinions on whether to use the R3 (semi-dipoles) or the 2.1's (direct radiating) speakers for music vs. home theater. I am about 50-50 music vs. home theater and feel the R3's perform admirably for both. For movies the R3's really rock, for music I have no complaints...however I've considered doing a test and hooking each (2.'1 and R3's) as the surrounds on my Denon and seeing how they compare...I will do this tomorrow and get back to you. The 2.1's are easier to mount on stands than the R3 if this is a concern. The R3's can mount directly to the wall with the supplied bracket/screw. As far as going with the 6.1 vs. the 4.1 I'd imagine if you're not going to use a subwoofer you might want the extra bass the 6.1's give you. Heck, I have the 6.1's but still went with dual SVS subs because there's no such thing as too much bass in home theater :) hope this helps ...Dave

The initial color and the patina that develops over time depend on both the wood species and the finish materials (stain, if any, clear coats, etc.).

Mark: any specifics you might provide on both would be extremely helpful in understanding how much the color is likely to change over time (depending in part on the amount of exposure to light), and how one might proceed in order to repair or alter the finish (such as color matching), and of course would be key in matching DIY projects (in the short and long run).

If the above and the finishing methodology can be nailed down it might also be relatively easy to provide veneer samples to prospective buyers who don’t have to option of experiencing the Divas in person, or at least aren’t at that point yet…

Mark Schifter-

Just noticed your banner add - above. Good Move! See it does get noticed.

Regards, Bruce

Comparison of Axiom M3Ti and Swans Diva 2.1
(I'm also starting a new thread on this because as I discovered, it's hard to search for reviews in a thread this long)

Sean, a.k.a (Arrchr) was kind enough to let me into his home last night to demo his Diva's as well as compare them to my current speakers: the Axiom M3Ti. It was an enjoyable night of music and discussion and here’s my take on the evening.

Sean has really gone over to the dark side with his setup. 8-). Swans 6.1’s, C3, 2.1 and SVS subs (fed by 350Wpc AMP) comprise part of his system. I did get a chance to listen to the full system but this comparison will focus on the 2.1’s qualities and how it compares to the M3Ti.

First, a slight disclaimer.
1) His Diva 2.1’s had not been broken in fully yet whereas mine had already gone through about 25 hours of break in time and I can’t say how the results would have turned out if his speakers had had more break in time. He uses the 2.1’s as satellites so they don’t get enough action.

I decided NOT to review things in the usual A/B fashion for two reasons
1) We didn’t have a speaker selector
2) I wanted to see how the speaker made different kinds of music sound – it should make classical music sound classical, jazz like jazz, rock like rock, etc. IMO, what I look for in a speaker foremost is neutrality in its reproduction of the sound and testing in this way will reveal that.

We started with the Diva 2.1 since they were already out. We listened to Dave Matthews Band in Concert, Natalie Merchant’s Motherland, Mozart Sessions with Bobby McFerrin and Chick Corea, Soundtrack to Mad About You (Sarah MacLachlan, Anita Franklin), and Sara K’s Closer Than They Appear.

Dave Matthews Band – One thing I noticed immediately was the crispness of the music. By this, I mean that the speakers reproduced the music cleanly and accurately– the 2.1’s reproduced the timbre of Dave Matthew’s voice very well (that’s midrange I suppose). Soundstage was also very good and with enough breathing room, these speakers can almost pull off a disappearing act. Almost. It’s not the best I’ve heard (by a long shot) : I didn’t jump out of my seat looking for hidden speakers (which I’ve done in the past with another speaker), but very good nonetheless. Bass response was fantastic, until Sean told me the SVS subs were on. Cheating! So he turned them off and I felt the foundation collapse. The bass was still there and cleanly produced, but there was a definite lack of support.

Sara K – This is a very good recording of live instruments and the speakers did a fine job with them – with the same caveat as above. There was again a problem with the lack of presence in the lower end, particularly with the bass. I’ve listened to this recording on my Sennheiser 580’s with proper amplification so I know what it’s should sound like and the 2.1’s were just missing the lower end support.

Natalie Merchant –The song Motherland is a good recording with Natalie’s unmistakable tone and no less than six acoustic instruments : accordion, pump organ, acoustic bass, acoustic guitar, banjo, and mandolin. The Diva really shone on this recording with excellent separation of the various instruments. The accordion and banjo and acoustic guitar were particularly outstanding to my ears. The mids and highs were very well done. Sean and I were busy discussing where we thought the instruments had been during the recording. I’m starting to sound like a broken record hear, but the acoustic bass was again the problem.

Mozart with Bobby McFerrin and Chick Corea– A strange combination of musicians to pair with Mozart but it’s one of my favorites. The Concerto for Piano and Orchestra No. 23 begins with Bobby’s voice, adds the piano, then adds some violins and violas, and finally the cellos and double basses, each layer building on the one before it. The piano sound was authentic but had a touch of muddiness at the end of each note. It may have been the room but it was only noticeable when I was listening intently for it. As each layer of instruments were added, I felt that there was not enough drama and the texture of the music did not change enough. I’ve heard this recording on a Polk Audio RT35 and Dynaudio Reference 42 felt that the fomer were more lively while the latter had more authority. What the Diva’s did well was a neutral, accurate presentation of the piano, violins, violas and flutes. There is, as with all the other music I listened to, an overall sense of crispness to the music with the Diva’s that I can’t quite describe. They are simply enjoyable and non-fatiguing to listen to.

Comparison to Axiom M3Ti:
I won’t go into the details here with each recording because there are only really a few conclusions to be drawn.

In terms of how the two speakers made each type of music sound, I would have to hand it to the Diva 2.1’s. The Axiom’s have a more pronounced bass that, while good for rock, techno and other music of the like, results in a bit of coloration at the lower end. The Diva’s just stayed very neutral and out of the way with everything we threw at it.
Specifically:
Soundstage : The Diva’s didn’t necessarily have a wider soundstage but they presented the instruments and vocalists more clearly within the sound stage.
Mids : Pretty close here. Both are excellent
Highs : I’d have to go with the Diva’s. They are just a touch more refined in the way they handle vocals.
Bass : The Divas have more potential in that while they were lacking in the low end, they didn’t color it in any way and would mate very well with a subwoofer. The Axioms on the other hand have enough bass on their own to be respectable without a subwoofer (particularly for those with small rooms like myself) but do so by adding boosting the lower end somewhat.
Off-axis response : I forgot to test for this I was so buy enjoying the music.

Conlusion :
Both of these speakers are very, very good. Price not being a consideration, I would go with the Divas but I would strongly recommend a subwoofer to get the most out of the speakers, in which case you’re spending enough to get the 4.1’s (which I’ve never heard but I assume would have much better bass response).
Taking price into consideration (the M3’s are available for $220 shipped from the factory outlet section on Axiom’s site), I would go with the M3’s. I have a total budget for my system and set aside about $300 for the speakers and while I liked the Diva’s, I would be itching to get a subwoofer. If the Diva’s were a little closer in price, it would have been a tough call but we’re talking about almost double the price of the M3’s here.

Other Comments:
Both are still not as good as my amplified Senheisser 580’s, but that’s not really a fair match since the 580 drivers are one inch away from my ears. If you don’t mind headphones, your best bang for the buck would still be to get the Senheisser 600’s matched with one of Headroom’s amplifiers.

Sean thanks again for allowing me the pleasure of listening to your speakers. The dark side calls, but it will have to wait until the forces move me into a bigger place.

I'll post my impressions as well, but I have to take off right now...I just wanted to stress the fact that my 2.1's have always been XO @ 80/3rd order. The woofs have never been really challenged. I plan on getting them broken in, but you know how it goes...never enough time.

I'd like Sheppard to come back after I've done so. One other thing of importance...the 2.1's are front ported into my 3000 cu' room. His Axioms are rear ported and were firing mostly into one of the holes in my ent center. I don't know how significant a part that played in the bass reproduction, but I imagine it had some effect.

Anyway, nice write up Sheppard. I'll be back later with some pics too.

Oh,
Tell 'em what you thought of Blue Man Group - Audio DVD-A with the 6.1's and the dual SVS' goin' :D

Sean

Matt,

Let me comment on the R3's that I think are the most under-appreciated speakers in the Diva line-up. These pseudo dipole surrounds added more to my HT and 5.1 music enjoyment than I would have ever expected. They are a little too close to my back wall (due to my small room size also) but they still sound great, and have the potential to sound even better.

I was most surprised at how well they could project a 6th channel image directly behind me even though they are placed directly to my sides. This was most evident after listening to a track on the Boyz II Men DTS CD. A female voice was whispering behind my ear and made the hairs on the back of my neck rise. I had once tried a 6.1 configuration with an extra satellite speaker I had laying around but it actually seemed to subtract sound from the R3, so I unplugged it....or at least I thought I did. I had to check because I could not believe that the R3s could make a phantom 6th channel that well, but they did.

They are ideal for HT but also add more feel of "surround" in 5.1 music because most of the surround channel tends to be echo effects or audience (clapping/cheering). You can probably get good 6th channel imaging from a pair of directs that are placed behind you and toed in, but you would be missing the surround feel to the sides of you during movie viewing, and this is where the R3s really stands out. The R3s do not reall require side walls due to their 90 degree driver angle, but a rear wall is helpful for reflection (which you have).

Although I live in an apt, I purchased the 6.1s with the knowledge that I would have a larger HT room eventually. So in your decision you may want to consider that when deciding between the 4.1 and 6.1, and R3 or 2.1s. You can always upgrade to a 7.1 system later and move your 4.1s to the rear as someone else mentioned too....choices, choices.:rolleyes:

TinHere,

Long time no hear..:D

I am sure you must be talking about some of the morons (trolls) that hang out at AudioReview, which is why I left that site in the first place. They never seem to want to talk about the quality of the speaker or the actual facts on how they're made huh? Anyway, I recently went back there and started posting again to build up some name recognition, so if I see you getting into a debate or having to defend yourself, I will be sure to jump in and help you out. ;)

Shepard,

It's kind of funny that on your review that you liked the Diva 2.1's midrange better but the Axiom 3ti's bass better. Because the shootout on cheaphometheater was the exact opposite.:D

http://www.cheaphometheater.com/Speaker%20Shootout.htm

I guess that means that both these internet speakers are pretty good either way you look at them. I suspect that the Diva's bass will get better with a little more break in though.

Archrr, you did remember to switch the speaker setting to "large" after you turned off the sub right?;) :rolleyes: Just messing with you.

Hey MaxC,

The Diva and nOhr trolls pretty much moved on when the discussions by the owners moved to other forums a few months ago. A few others and myself mention the Diva's as an option often with the advice to come here if they want to get the opinions of people who have actually heard them. I enjoy making people aware of the Diva's who otherwise might not consider them.

Always a pleasure to see ya MaxC. I bet those original pics of the Diva's you posted "way back" have gotten a lot of views and helped some people decide on the Diva's before it was an established contender. :D

Russ,

I appreciate the offer. The trolls ran when bigwally showed up and actually provided knowledgable information that supported my claims. :rolleyes:

Now I have to go turn down the music. ;)

How would you go about getting 5 of the 6.1 speakers for a multichannel DVD-A/SACD setup? They are sold on the website by the pair and I tried entering 2.5 into the cart but it rounded to 2.

Thanks,
Scott Burns

Either call or send direct e-mail to Russell Woolfolk, Steve Ozmai or Mark Schifter for each of them include their own e-mail address at the end of their posts. On some occasions they even include their number & extension.

I am sure they will be glad to work out some deal for you. Hey they may even throw in that half of the third pair free. JK

Russ, it's only been a few days and now you're sending the congregation into battling the trolls. :D

PF

If those trolls and interlopers come around again I'll give 'em the "big freeze"!

http://home.hiwaay.net/~thefanns/images/bcrawl.jpg

I went to zooplanctons house yesterday for a 6.1 demo, hang out, meet the wife (lovely wife BTW) etc. While there I found out something that I always thought; my divas are not full broken in yet.

Bass. Brandon has taken the time to break in his 6.1's by using a very bass heavy disc and by always funning them full range (we've got to get him a new pre/pro...no small setting for him). In contrast, my pair almost never see a full range signal. They are always set to small @ 80. He has significantly more bass coming from his speakers than I do (when I run full range of course). I've never seen the Divas woofs more than what I saw at his place. His room is approx the same cu' as mine.

The reason I mention all this is it kinda proved my thoughts that my 2.1's were not sufficiently broken when I did the demo for sheppard. I knew they could do more than what I was hearing. At least this proves the notion that break in is necessary. I got the disc from him so I can do the same now :)

So, sheppard, if you still have the Axioms after I'm done pounding on the 2.1's, I'd like to try again. I'll buy the pizza.

Sean

lol, we were running in direct mode for the sans sub tests :)

Sean

Also while at zooplanctons house, I took some pictures of his set up. It looks like the color difference Steve was talking about is real. I used the same camera with the same approximate lighting conditions (no lights on at night with the flash providing all the illumination). Brandon's speakers are much lighter in color than mine. Check it out:

http://home.attbi.com/~archer204/mainset640.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~archer204/6.1_640.jpg

Again, these are compressed quite a bit. If you want full res 1600x1200 images, I have them available and I'll out em on my site if you want...

That said, they are real wood. Wood comes in different colors...that's just the way it is.

One more thing, this is just groovy Brandon :)

http://home.attbi.com/~archer204/groovy.jpg



Sean

Holy Cow! - I guess that huge glass window/door is his subwoofer - Egads!

Now I finally see the white's of the Diva's (eye ?), you all have been talking about. Where's Ron Po-Peel's hair in a spray can?

When buying these in sets, ie. w/ center and surrounds are the veneers reasonably color matched?

One more thing - what the heck is that last picture?

Regards, Bruce

Well, my 4.1's and C3 are around 60 hours into their burn-in. So many people have already posted their impressions on the Divas. Let me try and put it in different terms.

BC (Before Diva's): I would listen to music close to 1- 1 1/2 hours each night after work. I would watch 1-2 dvd's per week.

AC (After Diva's): Since the Diva's arrived, it has been an age of enlightment. I have been simply amazed time and time again at some of the details that my old speakers were missing (Infinity IL-60's). My day consists of listening to music before work, coming home and leaving the music on all night. Television time has been greatly reduced.

Viewing DVD's has been a new experience, the C3 as a center channel is wonderful. I can understand everything when a character whispers. For the first time I've noticed the crickets chirping at the beginning and at the very end of the movie Blow.

Let's put it this way, I find myself going through my substantial cd collection, listening to albums that I haven't listened to in awhile. Ditto on DVD's.

A few sidenotes:

Packaging: Yes the packaging is everything people said it would be. All were doubleboxed with enough styrofoam to build a floating rowboat. The cats have claimed the bags that the speakers were in, they love them.

Finish: The finish is superb, very high quality, better than I expected. I've caught houseguests kneeling down veside the speakers, staring at the woodgrain.

Feet: It's been posted before that to convert the feet to spikes you can poke a hole through the rubber soles to get to the screw. Ruining the rubber soles is not necessary. If you press your screwdriver hard enough against the rubber soles, you can make contact with the screw without putting a hole through the rubber sole.

Delivery: Just a small kink, they said delivery would be between 11am-3pm so I took the day off to wait for the speakers. Delivery truck didn't show up till 5:30pm. The deliverymen were amicable, apologized for the delay, I've got no complaints, everyone has their bad days.

Home theater: I haven't commented too much on the surrounds because the 2.1's are currently backordered. Once I get them I'll post an update.

I would have written more but everythings been covered by previous posts. And I'm hungry now so I'm going to stop typing.

One last comment: My dog does not like it when I play my acoustic guitar. She tends to bark :). Last night I put in a cd featuring various guitar players. My dog started barking :D.

Heh, Brandon has a beautiful view from his balcony...

lol. I didn't even notice. I really don't notice it at my place either. The flash makes it more pronounced, but I suppose a perfectionist will have to call Mr. Popiel...

Yup. They match.

It's a rocket ship with a red light inside...sitting on his sub...like I said, it's groovy :)


Sean

Hmm...I almost DON"T want to discover that they're equally good if not better in the bass region than the M3's - might be too tempting. Well, I have to return those speakers pretty soon - when did you think you would have them broken in?

Honestly, I don't know. It will take many hours...hmmm 25 or so? I'll let you know....I'm quite confident that with the break in, the Divas will at least match the M3's. Just send em back and order some 2.1's hehe

I'll try and set it up to play while I'm at work...gotta check with the neighbors...