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Marantz UD9004 Universal player with Blu-ray - Page 5

post #121 of 212
Thanks edorr. Will keep everyone posted.

Now if the darn thing will just get here....
post #122 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Thanks edorr. Will keep everyone posted.

Now if the darn thing will just get here....

I waited 2-3 weeks for both my first and second player to arrive. It will get there eventually.
post #123 of 212
Thanks..they said they should have it tomorrow, then out to me.
post #124 of 212
I have now been burning in my ud9004 for over three months 24x7 and I am a burn in skeptic no more. I just sat down for some critical listening at high volume (which I don't get around to alot, because of my objecting wife). While initially I thought the Pioneer BDP-09 was close on the DTS track on my reference DVD-A disc (another stoney evening - Crosby & Nash), now there is no comparison, the dynamics of the guitar - layering of the voices is far superior. I played the best recorded orchestral SACD I have (trondheim soliste, 2L recording), and the dynamcis were so overwhelming I was afraid it would blow the drivers out of my speakers (not that I was hearing speakers - it was pure music). A sampling of hard rock (Deep Purple - Machine Head on SACD quadrofonic) was equally impressive - rock solid bass, howling guitar. This is one hell of a machine......
post #125 of 212
Cool.

Mine arrives Wednesday--can't wait!
post #126 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

I have now been burning in my ud9004 for over three months 24x7 and I am a burn in skeptic no more. I just sat down for some critical listening at high volume (which I don't get around to alot, because of my objecting wife). While initially I thought the Pioneer BDP-09 was close on the DTS track on my reference DVD-A disc (another stoney evening - Crosby & Nash), now there is no comparison, the dynamics of the guitar - layering of the voices is far superior. I played the best recorded orchestral SACD I have (trondheim soliste, 2L recording), and the dynamcis were so overwhelming I was afraid it would blow the drivers out of my speakers (not that I was hearing speakers - it was pure music). A sampling of hard rock (Deep Purple - Machine Head on SACD quadrofonic) was equally impressive - rock solid bass, howling guitar. This is one hell of a machine......


You had mentioned earlier that you liked the CBe better than the UD9004 on the bass! I find the UD9004 exceptional in the bass. The key is you need to separately calibrate one input on the CB3 for what you are playing on the UD9004, because there are varying bass levels. E.G, SACD in Source Direct has an automatic 10dB boost. I found this I think on DVD-A in Source Direct, too. So do a separate CB3 for each source, calibrate it, and also calibrate a separate input if you want to try the same source in Source Direct or not. I don't really hear any drop off sound quality at this point for DVD-A whether Source Direct or not - I like using the bass crossover settings. But SACD, one must listen in Source Direct as the conversion to PCM clearly lowers the sound quality.
post #127 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

You had mentioned earlier that you liked the CBe better than the UD9004 on the bass! I find the UD9004 exceptional in the bass. The key is you need to separately calibrate one input on the CB3 for what you are playing on the UD9004, because there are varying bass levels. E.G, SACD in Source Direct has an automatic 10dB boost. I found this I think on DVD-A in Source Direct, too. So do a separate CB3 for each source, calibrate it, and also calibrate a separate input if you want to try the same source in Source Direct or not. I don't really hear any drop off sound quality at this point for DVD-A whether Source Direct or not - I like using the bass crossover settings. But SACD, one must listen in Source Direct as the conversion to PCM clearly lowers the sound quality.

Funny you should mention this. I had thought about doing just this because clearly SACD in source direct gives more bass than BR with source direct off. I might just set up another input on the CBIII with a 10db LFE channel boost.

I will say though that on 2 channel CDs, even with a 15db boost on the LFE channel through channel level settings on the six shooter, using the Xtreme card and CBIII crossover produces more bass on my sub than using the ud9004 with crossover at 80Hz into the SS. However, this is all moot because I am using the PWD for 2 channel, which is overall the best sounding, and certainly does make me feel like I am missing any low frequencies. In fact, when I switch between the Xtreme card and the PWD, vocals on the former sound allmost muffled. I can't wait to get my hands on the network bridge, so I can enjoy the PWD in full I2S glory, which if Paul McGowan is to be believed is sonically identical to using a PWT.
post #128 of 212
I have discs with sound level test tones, not only for blu ray and dvd, but also for sacd, dvd-a and even for stereo which includes a sub test tone. Player test tones aren't completely accurate.
post #129 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

I have discs with sound level test tones, not only for blu ray and dvd, but also for sacd, dvd-a and even for stereo which includes a sub test tone. Player test tones aren't completely accurate.

Hi Steve--got a source for those?

Thanks
post #130 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Hi Steve--got a source for those?

Thanks


1. multichannel SACD - Tchaikovsky 1812, Telarc

2. multichannel DVD-A - The Ultimate DVD Surround Sampler 5.1 Setup Disc, Chesky

3. blu ray - Audio Calibration Disc HD Music Sampler, AIX Records

4. stereo - Stereo Review Bold Stereo and Surround Set=U Disc, Stereo Review, Chesky

5. DVD - I just use my DVD of The Incredibles which includes test tones
post #131 of 212
Thanks Steve--I must have missed your reply.

My UD9004 arrived today, at last!! Setup was easy because it was so similar to my Denon 5910, so I'm listening to it right now.

First impression--HOLY CRAP!! This thing puts the 5910 to shame--better defonition of treble and bass, bettter dynamics, and it's not even broken in--or even close, obviously. Need to look through this thread for the video settings someone posted.

Tonight, I watch my first Blu-ray EVER!!

Can you tell I'm jazzed?
post #132 of 212
Video setting even over HDMI, set high sharpness to -1, brightness to +1.
But get out a test disc and doublecheck.
post #133 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post


Hey, I made a bit of video adjustment to the 9004. Set black level to +1 and high sharpness to -1. Now the picture is sensational.

How do you get to these settings in the setup menu--or are they in some other menu?
post #134 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

How do you get to these settings in the setup menu--or are they in some other menu?

Not in the Setup menu. there's a small tiny button on remote for "picture" I think. Make the changes and save.
post #135 of 212
Never mind.....
post #136 of 212
Rtfm....
post #137 of 212
Guys

Please tell me if I have this right:

Source direct off-- DSD is converted to PCM/LPCM and goes through DSP in the player, including distance settings and BM, before the DAC stage.

Source direct on-- DSD goes directly to to the DAC, bypassing DSP including distance/delay and BM, but sounds better.

Is DSD converted straight to analog, or does it have to be converted to PCM first, regardless of whether or not it undergoes DSP?

To me, source direct definitely sounds better on than off, and I can still use my subs, with the crossover set in the P7, but no distance/delay. I'm going to try some subtle adjustments of seating and speaker placement that put all speakers and subs the same distance from me, or nearly so.

TYIA
post #138 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Guys

Please tell me if I have this right:

Source direct off-- DSD is converted to PCM/LPCM and goes through DSP in the player, including distance settings and BM, before the DAC stage.

Source direct on-- DSD goes directly to to the DAC, bypassing DSP including distance/delay and BM, but sounds better.

Is DSD converted straight to analog, or does it have to be converted to PCM first, regardless of whether or not it undergoes DSP?

To me, source direct definitely sounds better on than off, and I can still use my subs, with the crossover set in the P7, but no distance/delay. I'm going to try some subtle adjustments of seating and speaker placement that put all speakers and subs the same distance from me, or nearly so.

TYIA

The manual says that with source direct used, you still get the speaker distance and speaker on/off, but no crossover or bass stuff.

Source Direct clearly uses the DSD to analog conversion, not to PCM, as it sounds much better that way (at least in my setup it does).

Yea, my speakers and subs are pretty much same distance from my front center leather recliner, though subs are about one foot more away!
post #139 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Guys

Please tell me if I have this right:

Source direct off-- DSD is converted to PCM/LPCM and goes through DSP in the player, including distance settings and BM, before the DAC stage.

Source direct on-- DSD goes directly to to the DAC, bypassing DSP including distance/delay and BM, but sounds better.

Is DSD converted straight to analog, or does it have to be converted to PCM first, regardless of whether or not it undergoes DSP?

To me, source direct definitely sounds better on than off, and I can still use my subs, with the crossover set in the P7, but no distance/delay. I'm going to try some subtle adjustments of seating and speaker placement that put all speakers and subs the same distance from me, or nearly so.

TYIA

You have it exactly right, apparantly with the exception of the delay. It was also my understanding this was done in the DSP on PCM but the manual seems to think otherwise. Note that distance for your sub is not at all critical. Also, I would not be too hung up on being off by a few feet distance difference between FR/FR and Surrounds, but if you can hear the difference good for you. Note that using pure direct on (on the remote) for me gives an audible improvement over using source direct only. Pure direct switches off the display, digital output and video circuitry.
post #140 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

The manual says that with source direct used, you still get the speaker distance and speaker on/off, but no crossover or bass stuff.

Source Direct clearly uses the DSD to analog conversion, not to PCM, as it sounds much better that way (at least in my setup it does).

Yea, my speakers and subs are pretty much same distance from my front center leather recliner, though subs are about one foot more away!

Quote:
Originally Posted by edorr View Post

You have it exactly right, apparantly with the exception of the delay. It was also my understanding this was done in the DSP on PCM but the manual seems to think otherwise. Note that distance for your sub is not at all critical. Also, I would not be too hung up on being off by a few feet distance difference between FR/FR and Surrounds, but if you can hear the difference good for you. Note that using pure direct on (on the remote) for me gives an audible improvement over using source direct only. Pure direct switches off the display, digital output and video circuitry.

Cool--Thanks guys. I'll look that up in the manual. Nice to know the distances can be set in the player with source direct on, and the crossover set at the P7. Best of both worlds.

Now, back to The Dark Knight. This player rocks..incredible sound on movies. Remember this is my first Blu-ray so the first time I've heard the HD codecs as well. WOW!!

Picture's not too shabby either.
post #141 of 212
One thing i found in the manual==When Source direct is on, all speakers are set to large. I think I'm OK with that for music, not so sure about LFE going to my small speakers during a movie.

Also not sure if that actually happens, or is it only on for SACD and MCH music, The manual seems to say it's more for DTS--I wonder if it reads that off the disk and sets things accordingly.
post #142 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

One thing i found in the manual==When Source direct is on, all speakers are set to large. I think I'm OK with that for music, not so sure about LFE going to my small speakers during a movie.

Also not sure if that actually happens, or is it only on for SACD and MCH music, The manual seems to say it's more for DTS--I wonder if it reads that off the disk and sets things accordingly.

What happens is with source direct you have no bass management, so all channels just receive the full bandwith signal of whatever information is mixed to that signal. This is equivalent to setting all speakers to large. In this configuration, LFE (the .1 channel) goes to the sub, but nothing is added from your other speakers. Note that quite a few MC SACD are actually 5.0 or even 4.0, so here nothing goes to the LFE channel in source direct. In no setup would your LFE information go to small/surround speakers as you are speculating.

When source direct is switched off, the LFE channel is augmented with the low frequencies of the speakers set to small at the cross over point. The Marantz has an option to also cross over low frequencies of speakers set to large. Very flexible.

Irrespectively, many folks would prefer using bass management (i.e. source direct off) for movies, and source direct on for SACD.
post #143 of 212
Thanks, edorr

So it sounds like source direct remains on for movies, mch music or whatever, and you need to turn it off manually when so desired.

Glad to hear LFE doesn't go to the smalls, though.

I can definitely hear an improvement in SACD with Source direct on.
post #144 of 212
I've had to return two copies of Star Trek to Netflix as unplayable--both visibly scratched. One would not even load except once in about ten tries, and then it froze when I tried to change chapters. The rest of the time it said "No Disc."

The other copy kept hanging up at the same scene. Whenever it would freeze up with either cisc, it sometimes would not respond to any command and I had to do a full reboot.

Yet other discs, which looked to be equally abused, have all played fine, with only minor hiccups.

Do I have a bad machine, or is there a know issue with Star Trek, or is it just crappy discs from Netflix?
post #145 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

I've had to return two copies of Star Trek to Netflix as unplayable--both visibly scratched. One would not even load except once in about ten tries, and then it froze when I tried to change chapters. The rest of the time it said "No Disc."

The other copy kept hanging up at the same scene. Whenever it would freeze up with either cisc, it sometimes would not respond to any command and I had to do a full reboot.

Yet other discs, which looked to be equally abused, have all played fine, with only minor hiccups.

Do I have a bad machine, or is there a know issue with Star Trek, or is it just crappy discs from Netflix?

Not sure. Same scene issues make you suspicious. I have a probably firmware related issues with SACD playback that I know how to work around now, so the Machine is not entirely bugfree. However, I never had any issues with any BR playback.
post #146 of 212
Not just same scene, but same exact point--on the first copy. Leads me to suspect a damaged disc. The thing that freaked me out we the machine totally locking up after it got stuck at that point.
post #147 of 212
Finally got a copy of Star Trek to play properly and all the way through on the Marantz, so it seems the issue was crappy copies -- read "scratched"-- from Netflix. To be fair to them, most discs I've gotten from them play fine.

Still continuing to be impressed with this player as it breaks in.

Here is an interesting sidebar from the review of the UD9004 in the current issue of TAS:

"The UD9004's complexity cries out for a simple menu
structure supported by plenty of on-screen and on-paper
user guidance. Unfortunately, there is none of this. The
player's on-screen menu selections are obtuse, and neither
the interactive explanations nor the manual provide much
help. To take but one example: Is the best SACD playback
achieved with Source Direct set to On or Off?
50kHz or 100kHz? The provided instructions are
confusing and contradictory. After some experimentation,
I found that On: 100kHz delivered the best sound in my
system. But beware, because this setting affects others in
unintended and non-obvious ways.
There are also cases where the options are clear
enough, but choosing the best one still requires trial and
error. For example, several parameters, in different places,
are available for configuring the UD9004 for stereo
rather than multichannel operation. Yet each one sounds
different. I achieved the best stereo sound by specifying
a multichannel system (counterintuitive, I know), then
setting a size of None for every speaker other than the
mains.
Finally, the UD9004 is one of the few components
I've encountered that absolutely must be fed inverted
AC polarity. Substituting the (non-inverting) stock cord
with an audiophile unit reaps the usual benefits; but
inverting polarity makes an even bigger difference. This
configuration, which I tried because other Marantz players
have benefited from it, graced the UD9004 with more air,
less grain, tighter bass, and allowed rhythms to relax into a
solid groove rather than sounding rushed. Granted, these
are unusually large effects for such a seemingly small
change, but they are real. Consider it part of the adventure
of getting the Marantz optimally configured..."

Now, I tried the reversing polarity trick, where the only option for doing that--unless I have this completely wrong-- is in the setup menu for XLR. I did notice an obvious difference, but my experience does not conform with that of Alan Taffel, the author of the piece. when I reversed polarity, the soundstage seemed to collapse and a great deal of the sense of air left the room. Perhaps my overall polarity is the opposite of Mr Taffels, but I certainly disagree with his assessment.

I have read elsewhere of the importance of maintaining the same polarity between all components. This is the first time I tried it, because it would otherwise involve reversing a lot of wires and seems like more trouble than it's worth. Meanwhile, I far prefer the sound of my system the way it is, thank you very much. But I was impressed by how much different the sound was, and would be curious if any of you other owners had tried this.

As far as his other suggestion of setting the system to multichannel and all other speakers to "none" haven't tried that yet, and don't want a setup where I have to go into the menu every time I listen to some other type of music, or watch a movie, though I may get curious enough to try it at some point.

The review is very favorable, BTW, and you guys may enjoy reading it.

That's it for now.....
post #148 of 212
The CB3 has a manu item that works, if you aren't using the Six Shooter analog inputs, to inverse polarity. But I think that's for the AC signal.

I think the reviewer is talking about reversing polarity using a cord with the leads reversed.

Mebbe I am wrong?
post #149 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bruzonsky View Post

The CB3 has a manu item that works, if you aren't using the Six Shooter analog inputs, to inverse polarity. But I think that's for the AC signal.

I think the reviewer is talking about reversing polarity using a cord with the leads reversed.

Mebbe I am wrong?

I think you are correct. He specifically mentions AC polarity. To invert polarity I think you would need a cheater plug or invert the wiring in your power plug. Probably best to get a cheater plug, listen, and if you hear any difference start messing with the cable.
post #150 of 212
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

I achieved the best stereo sound by specifying
a multichannel system (counterintuitive, I know), then setting a size of None for every speaker other than the mains.

Finally, the UD9004 is one of the few components I've encountered that absolutely must be fed inverted AC polarity.

Welcome to the world of voodoo high-end. I'll definitely read the article though.
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