"High Definition Benchmark" BD Edition by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil - Page 35

OK, I assume you mean the thick red box in the yellow background. It seems to be the same as I see best looking against the gray background (lower left).

On the red-on-yellow, red seems to bleed 2 pixels to the right of the vertical sides and less so on the left side.

On the red-on-gray, it's easier to see. Red feathers out into the gray 2 pixels on the right side and 1 pixel on the left. Best seen with the patterns 3-4 pixels wide. All of this is only visible up close to the screen.

kj, if the panel has screen orbiter, make sure it's off and see if it makes a difference. 1 pixel checker board patterns don't look correct with screen orbiters on. This pattern could be affected, too, don't know.

larry

Thanks. It's off. I use Screen Fit, which disables the orbiter.

I'm going to post about this in the Samsung thread about settings for my model. See if somebody there has the S&M disc.

OK, this is totally weird. For these 'diamonds' in the Chroma Alignment Pattern, I was always standing to the left and leaning to the right to look at them. It is the patterns at the bottom, and to look at them upright I would have to squat; plus I felt I could see them better with my head tilted. As I already reported the pixel line in the diamonds were off center and shifted to the right as I face the TV.

Here is the weird part. I looked at this pattern standing to the right and with my head tilted to the left, and the center pixel lines are centered perfectly!

Not a clue!

PICTURE ADJUSTMENTS using the Spears and Munsil disc

I have an OPPO BD player and LOVE the picture it puts out. I have had my whole set-up professionally calibrated and for the most part am very happy.

However... I notice sometimes that flesh tones can be a little on the "yellow/golden/orange" side and I also notice that when I am looking through the BLUE Filter (enclosed with the Spears and Munsil Set-up disc) that the color bars are not quite as they should be (i.e. all the same).

Now... is this correct or can I move the Oppo HUE setting one click to the right (+1) to seemingly make the picture more 'red' and more accurate for the BLUE filter color bar pattern, or would I be messing-up all the good work that the calibrator has done?

p.s. I was also thinking of maybe increasing the SATURATION setting by +1 click as well. Is this not recommended?

Please advise.

Thank you for your time. Kind regards, M.J.

Hae you gone through the "Using the filter" article on our website to make sure the filter works with your display?

I would adjust the color and tint controls on your display, and not the player, if possible. If the calibrator did a gray scale calibration, adjusting color and tint is OK.

The flesh tone issue could also be caused by the color decoder in your display or the content itself. Maybe the fleshtones are supposed to look like that. :-)

Don't be afraid to adjust the color and tint and see if it helps. Be sure to write the number down before you start so you can always return to it.

Hi Mr Spears,

Thank you for your reply.

Yes, my calibrator did do a full gray scale calibration and yes it was quite thorough. He's a great guy and I found him very cool and imformative.

However, the displays settings are all now GREYED-OUT and I am unable to change anything on the TV in the ISF-NIGHT setting (which is how he set it up). So, I can only effectively make changes (if need be) in the player (I do NOT have a amp or receiver in the chain).

With regard to the blue filter. Yes, I did read the article (all of them infact in the booklet and on the excellent website). Very very informative indeed. Thank you.

Now, using the single layer blue filter... the red and green bars are nowhere near black and the hue and saturation are slightly off (under saturated and negative red), but when you look through the other blue filter side... everything looks MUCH better. The red and green bars are very nearly black (almost as dark as the other bars), and the descrepancies in the hue and saturation are much harder to see.

When I fold the blue filter in half and look through it... the green and red bars are jet black and the same as the other bars. The hue and saturation look spot on with no noticeable difference in intensity.

I hope this makes sense... Is the calibrator correct and I do not need to change anything in the Oppo player?

Thank you again... I find all of this very fascinating. Cheers.

With regard

Based on your description I believe your settings are correct.

Feel free to still change hue in the player to see if it makes you happier. In the end that is what matters most.

Thanks Mr Spears!

You mention "yellow/golden/orange". The current rage in Hollywood is to put a "teal and orange" cast to the color of the film. Even when they didn't many films don't look like real life because of the "style" sought by the filmmaker and/or cinematographer. What do the beginning montages look like on S&M?

You are probably better off looking at good video instead of movies to see if you are happy. If you change settings in the player then you not seeing what's on the disc. And if your display was calibrated using the player - I would think it would be - then changing player settings may invalidate your calibration which you most likely paid for. But, like Stacey said, in the end it's what makes you happy.

larry

Many thanks Larry.

The movie was "Hossible Bosses". I have since watched other movies... "The Town" tonight and the yellow/orange thing was gone. It must be "artistic intent" on the behalf of the "Horrible Bosses" director?

That's why you get your display calibrated to a known standard given an input. When everything in the video chain is working properly, you see what you are supposed to see. So if Horrible Bosses looks like it has a the "teal and orange" cast, then it does.

larry

In the "Getting started with the High Definition Benchmark" article it says:


which is what I've always thought and done, but in the "Setting the Brightness Control" it says:


and


Is this an exception for brightness or a typo?

Just a question regarding the clipping pattern.

My current set up is an Oppo 93 -> Denon 4311ci -> Samsung UN46ES8000. The Denon should be passing the video signal without messing with it (at least that is how I believe I have it set up).

I have followed the brightness, contrast, color, tint calibration order and I haven't had any problems getting settings that make all the bars end up in all the right places. And then, I get to the clipping pattern and Red is badly clipped, it looks like one box or if I look REALLLLLLLLY closely maybe one discernable ring. In the users guide the recommendation is to lower contrast until all levels are distinct and visible. If I do this I end up with whites that aren't right on the Contast Pattern.

I have started to mess around with "Color Space" setting on my TV (admittedly I don't know what I am doing and I have just "borrowed" some settings from the AVS UNXXES8000 Forum). Selecting "Custom" in the "Color Space" allows me to change RGB values for Red, Blue, Green, Yellow, Cyan and Magenta. I find that if I signficantly reduce the R Value i(from say 50 down to 20) n the Red Custom color that I can bring distinction back to the Red square in the Clipping Pattern. However I don't know if I have adversely impacted something else. It doesn't feel right to have to adjust the Red value so significantly and I suspect it will have other impacts.

I suspect that perhaps I should be adjusting Red Gain and Offset to deal with this Clipping issue, rather than messing with Color Space.

I will continue to play with this on my own, however if anyone out there can offer some suggestions I would appreciate it...

Before you changed to custom, were you in auto or native?

That is the same question I asked myself after I messed with things and wanted to "go back" and attempt adjusting Gain/Offset. Unfortunately I don't know. I do know that Color Space was set to whatever the default is for "Standard" picture....I will go digging and see if I can figure it out.

If red is the only color clipped, I think there is a 601 color conversion happening. Its often a color decoding issue, such as red push as it used to be called. Can you bypass the receiver and try 4:2:2, 4:4:4, and RGB out of OPPO into your display and see if anything changes?

You should never adjust the primaries and secondaries by eye. Adjustments of the color points should only be made using calibration software and meters that measure colors. There are no patterns that can be used to setup those adjustments by eye.

Kris, I apologise for my newby question here but I want to make sure I understand you. When you say "primaries and secondaries" are you refering to adjusting the RGB values for Red, Blue, Green (primaries?) and Yellow, Cyan, Magenta (secondaries?) once Color Space is set to Custom?

Yes.

Stacey, as always thanks for your time. AS the OPPO has two HDMI outputs would it be reasonable to simply connect up the second output directly to the TV and then flip back and forth between the inputs on the TV to see if the problem resolves itself? Or would there be settings issues in the OPPO that might output different color spaces to the different HDMI outputs?

The OPPO will give you the same color space for both if you use an explicit value instead of AUTO.

For an honest comparison use SOURCE DIRECT to eliminate any QDEO processing that might happen on HDMI1.

-Bill

I have a 2011 Samsung 60" D6420, and when I change the color space to native, I also have red push. Make sure it's set to auto if you're not using custom.

Gentlemen:

Thanks for all your input and help so far. On the Samsung I have the Color Space set back to Auto, so I am not messing around by eye on any of the primary or secondary colors. I also tried the following test with Color Space set at Native with the same results.

I hooked up the OPPO HDMI2 output directly to the TV and was able to flip back and forth between this OPPO Direct to TV connection and the OPPO to Denon to TV connection.

I looked at the Clipping Pattern for all four Color Space settings on the OPPO: Auto, RGB, 4:2:2 and 4:4:4.

In all cases the red square was severely clipped, by "severely" I mean it was one solid box of red. No distinction whatsoever.

I am going to try playing with the White Balance Red Gain and Offset to see if that has any impact. Based on some "settings" over in the UNXXES8000 forum from a guy who calibrated with a colorimeter and has the Color Space set at Custom and has the Red set way way down I am guessing that without a colorimeter to calibrate my particular set I would be at best guessing.

Any input would be appreciated!

White balance won't fix the problem if it is a color decoder. At least you know the receiver is not to blame. Is color set correctly?

I am assuming that is the one I can check with the Color Bars or HD Color Bars Patterns. As best I can tell both Color and Tint are set correctly and resulting in similarly bright bars. I have tried this with both the filter in the DVD box and with my TV set to Blue Only mode....

I had a BenQ 1080p DLP that used 601 instead of 709. Even when sending in RGB it was wrong, which suggested they used one matrix to convert back to YCbCr and another to convert back to RGB. I was able to fix it using a DVDO VP50Pro. I had them add the ability to twist the color space so I sent in 601, instead of 709, into the BenQ and the problem was solved.

What does the color bars pattern look like? Without a reference this will be impossible to answer, but is the green kind of dark or more like neon? If more like neon, then 601 color conversion is being used. Take a look at this image and see if you can match this with the Color Bars pattern on our disc.




You want your Color Bars to look like the upper right image. See what I mean by darker vs. more neon of the bottom right bars?

The Yellow, Cyan and Green look most like the lower right.

The Magenta, Red and Blue look most like the upper right.

If red is the color that is clipped I would first just reduce your contrast setting and look at the clipping to see if it fixes it after some point. Maybe the display is just running out of red or contrast is overdriven. I haven't looked at this full thread so my apologies if this has already been attempted.

Kris:

That is the first thing I tried, and it does indeed work to reduce the clipping in red. However, the reduction in contrast signficantly impacts the white and black levels. When I go and watch actual content the impact of the reduced contrast in white black levels is far more noticable. I don't really notice the red clipping causing a funny issue with content...

I was hoping to adjust something else to keep white and black set "right" and resolve the red clipping issue with another setting...