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"High Definition Benchmark" BD Edition by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil - Page 39

post #1141 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Did settings like Contrast/Brightness/Color change from your previous calibration with the 1st edition? If so, how much?

If the patterns are accurate, they should be identical from the old copy to the new one. However, if your display's calibration has drifted due to age and use in the meantime, the settings may need to be adjusted for that reason. But that would be the same whether you used the old disc again or the new one.

The new disc has new tests, including 3D, that weren't available on the old disc.
post #1142 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_euro2002 View Post

..... Someone said its pointless getting this unless you have professional equipment to help with the calibration. I don't have anything so I'm hoping calibrating with the blu ray alone will suffice and improve my picture. .....

They're either pulling your leg or ......

The High Definition Benchmark disc is the 5th calibration disc that gotten over years starting back in the 90's with the "A Video Standard" laser disc. To me it has been worth it. Read the articles on the S&M site and don't be afraid to ask questions. Before you know it you'll be enjoying a great picture.
post #1143 of 1210
Quote:
Did settings like Contrast/Brightness/Color change from your previous calibration with the 1st edition?

For the most part, things should not change. It all depends on what level you went to using the first disc.

1. If you only used the contrast pattern on the first disc, to set contrast, it might not be set optimally. If you used the contrast and clipping pattern, then you are OK. The new contrast pattern has coarse elements from the clipping pattern on it. The disc also has RGB and YCbCr versions of the contrast pattern to fine tune even further.

2. We added a log grayscale concentric rectangle around the outside of the brightness pattern. If you have a DLP, then this will have no effect since picture level difference don't effect the display. Plasma and CRTs do change based on picture level differences.

3. SMPTE color bars using the 709 matrix will encounter a rounding error on the cyan and magenta bars. This will result in one rounding up and the other rounding down in digital value, which makes it look like tint is off. Our new color bar pattern does not suffer from that error. We also offer the old SMPTE style but we have added dither to hide the error. The new color bars are brighter and are easier to see through multiple layers of blue filter material. (2x or 3x on our filter)

4. We have added some additional tests to the sharpness pattern to better help fine tune.

5. We put all of these basic patterns into its own menu and name them based after the control you need to use. This was to help those who might not be familiar with calibration.

All of the above also works in 3D, which the first disc did not support. I know there are lots of players that can convert 2D into 3D. I don't actually know what they do on test patterns.
Edited by sspears - 5/3/13 at 2:29pm
post #1144 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_euro2002 
..... Someone said its pointless getting this unless you have professional equipment to help with the calibration. I don't have anything so I'm hoping calibrating with the blu ray alone will suffice and improve my picture. .....

You need professional gear to adjust white balance. If the display has the ability to adjust gamut, you will need the same gear for that too.

For setting the "front panel controls" you don't need gear. The first disc only focused on front panel controls, so no special gear was needed at all for that disc. The new disc has basic stuff, advanced stuff, and super advanced stuff. smile.gif
post #1145 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Did settings like Contrast/Brightness/Color change from your previous calibration with the 1st edition? If so, how much?


A little but that's because it's been awhile since I calibrated my tv. And it also let me calibrate it in 3d which was amazing. Now my movies in 3d look good also.
post #1146 of 1210
Thanks everyone.........Soon as I see it on Amazon, it's mine.
post #1147 of 1210
Ordered mine through Oppo, on Thursday, SHOCKED to see it in my mailbox 2 days later on Saturday! (standard US mail shipping) Well done. Some real nice 3D video examples, showed me I was not setting up 3D properly on my VT50, worth the price in the first 5 minute quick viewing.
post #1148 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mactavish View Post

Ordered mine through Oppo, on Thursday, SHOCKED to see it in my mailbox 2 days later on Saturday! (standard US mail shipping) Well done. Some real nice 3D video examples, showed me I was not setting up 3D properly on my VT50, worth the price in the first 5 minute quick viewing.

how much were you off with the tv? I own a gt25.

Jacob
post #1149 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob305 View Post

how much were you off with the tv? I own a gt25.

Jacob

I did not get very far with the SM disk, I was trying to get to watching my first 3D movie from the new Sony 330 BR-3D deck I bought. By running the 3D samples on the disk, I could see I was somehow in the 2D-3D conversion, not the FULL 3D, which was just a matter of some VT50 display settings I had to go through. After watching Avatar, I have reversed my ignorant opinion of 3D movies at home, it's very, very, COOL! I'll get back to the SM disk shortly.
post #1150 of 1210
Amazon now has the disc fulfilled by Oppo but with free shipping for Prime members. Due back in stock on May 10.
post #1151 of 1210
The fulfilled is now in stock according to Amazon.
post #1152 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

The fulfilled is now in stock according to Amazon.

I just placed my order at Amazon and the estimated delivery date is May 15th...........mad.gif

Well, you have to wait for the good things........right..............wink.gif
post #1153 of 1210
Is it possible to calibrate the colors management system on the Samsung tv using the red blue and green clipping?
post #1154 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by K1NeT1C USMC View Post

Is it possible to calibrate the colors management system on the Samsung tv using the red blue and green clipping?

Calibrating any Color Management System (CMS) really requires a colorimeter or a spectroradiometer. And if you have those, you'd use the equal-energy color windows to do the calibration.

If you have clipping in a single channel that you can't get rid of, that might be an indication of an issue with your CMS, but it's by no means definitive, and it still wouldn't be possible to get a better setting without using some kind of test equipment.

I hope that answers your question.
post #1155 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

The fulfilled is now in stock according to Amazon.

Thank you ordered and awaiting package.
post #1156 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr136124 View Post

I just placed my order at Amazon and the estimated delivery date is May 15th...........mad.gif

Well, you have to wait for the good things........right..............wink.gif

See what I found today at my mailbox..............


Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #1157 of 1210
OMG, now I can finally get some sleep! smile.gif

Enjoy!
post #1158 of 1210
I have a GT50 and setting the contrast to see all the bars is pretty easy. But it is looking really dim. Is this correct? Should I be setting it to see all the bars except the last one?
post #1159 of 1210
Sometimes you have to compromise. I have a VT20, in a light controlled room, so I can lower contrast in 2D mode to avoid clipping. In 3D mode, I have to live with some clipping or the 3D image is too dim. In a non-light controlled room, you may have to live with more clipping, even in 2D mode. It will be a trade off of accurate vs. viewable.

If the image is too dim, turn contrast up.
post #1160 of 1210
I've recently obtained both an Oppo BDP-103 and "HD Benchmark 2nd Edition". I've found the color space evaluation very interesting, and something I've given little thought to before. I think I understand all the aspects of it now, but it took me several times of going through it before I felt semi-confident in what to look for, particularly in the multibursts. It has led to a few questions and observations.

Can I assume that the Oppo BDP-103 uses bicubic chroma upsampling for the 4:4:4 and RGB output options?

On the chroma range check, I cannot see the darker green square at all, and on the red and blue I can just barely discern them if I vary my angle to the screen and sometimes it helps to look slightly off to the side. I think I'm half using my imagination to see them. They certainly aren't as clear as the darker squares in the Clipping rectangles and Color Space Conversion squares. I think I can faintly see a darker square in the red 601 box that is about the same contrast as the squares in the red and blue portions of the chroma range check. If it makes a difference my display is a rear projection SXRD and the gamma is about 2.0 to 2.1. Unfortunately I've never discovered a way to increase the gamma beyond that. Would this be considered indicative of the correct or incorrect conversion? The only setting I'm finding where I can see none of the darker squares in the chroma range check is when selecting "RGB PC Level" which makes all the darker squares disappear in all the patterns (obviously clipping all info outside of 16-235). Coincidentally "RGB PC Level" is the only setting that results in no banding in the color ramps.

For comparison of the effects on the multibursts I found it helpful to use those in the Video Measurements section. I found it a little easier to see the dimming on the highest frequency multiburst (that was apparently a result of my TV performing multiple conversions when receiving 4:4:4 and "Game/Text Mode" was not selected) when having the lower frequency bursts on screen for comparison. While looking through these I found that I got an odd result on both the Multiburst and Zone Plate Black Background Cb patterns when using RGB. There is no black transition between the lines of color at any of the resolutions. In all the other black background Multiburst and Zone Plate patterns the image appears to go black between the lines of color. Selecting a YCbCr setting restores the black transitions to the Cb patterns. Am I correct in assuming that the Cb patterns should have the same black transitions as the other black background patterns do? I'm also curious as to what effect this might have on real world images, and whether it is the Oppo or my video display that is responsible. I'm attaching some images below to try to illustrate the differences I'm seeing.

All patterns photographed below are Black Background Cb. The darkening of the images toward the top and bottom of the photos is apparently a result of an interaction between my display screen and the camera.

Chroma Multiburst YCbCr 4:4:4


Chroma Multiburst RGB


Chroma Multiburst YCbCr 4:4:4


Chroma Multiburst RGB


Chroma Zone YCbCr 4:4:4


Chroma Zone Plate RGB
post #1161 of 1210
Quote:
Can I assume that the Oppo BDP-103 uses bicubic chroma upsampling for the 4:4:4 and RGB output options?

I don't know, but I suspect it is bilinear. If I still had an HDMI analyzer, I could capture and check. The 83 uses Bilinear. Panasonic has their "chroma enhancement" which looks like bicubic or something better.

The chroma range stuff is really difficult to see. If I see boxes in red, I know the processing is correct. Its an all or nothing situation. meaning, if it is uses the improper shortcut, then all of the chroma range will be clipped. If you can see any of them, then it is good to go.

You never want to use RGB PC levels unless your display does not have a brightness control and it is expecting PC levels in.

In a lot of cases, it is worth using game mode. This typically turns off a lot of extra processing to reduce latency for game consoles. Less crap in the way. :-)
post #1162 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

I don't know, but I suspect it is bilinear. If I still had an HDMI analyzer, I could capture and check. The 83 uses Bilinear. Panasonic has their "chroma enhancement" which looks like bicubic or something better.

The chroma range stuff is really difficult to see. If I see boxes in red, I know the processing is correct. Its an all or nothing situation. meaning, if it is uses the improper shortcut, then all of the chroma range will be clipped. If you can see any of them, then it is good to go.

You never want to use RGB PC levels unless your display does not have a brightness control and it is expecting PC levels in.

In a lot of cases, it is worth using game mode. This typically turns off a lot of extra processing to reduce latency for game consoles. Less crap in the way. :-)

Thanks for the super quick response! I only asked about the Oppo because saw enough Oppo talk in the thread that I thought someone here might know. Since the 83 used bilinear I'll assume that for the 103 unless I hear different.

I certainly understand on the RGB PC levels. It only intrigued me because it completely cleaned up the RGB ramps. I may have not made it clear above, but the oddities in the Cb black background patterns occurred with both RGB settings. The photos above were all with RGB Video Level selected.
post #1163 of 1210
I learned a few things by watching this: Home Theater Geeks 159: Spears and Munsil HD Benchmark 2.0, the most important of which may have been that there was a Bonus DVD hiding within the Blu-ray case that I hadn't found yet, and I think I finally understand motion blur.
post #1164 of 1210
I posted this question in the SSP-800 thread but am curious as the people in this thread might have some insight.

So, here is my conundrum, I have been playing with calibration today, Since we added a new built in giant Cherry wood book case and a new av custom made rack made of solid Bubinga and Cherry . I used the following to set up the levels for each speakers!

- Internal SSP-800 pink noise
- AIX Calibration Blu ray disc
- THX Calibration Blu ray disc

None of them match? I calibrated first using the SSP-800 using pink noise. Calibrated all speakers to 75 db.

Then I try the discs and all the levels are different and even worst, all the speakers are at different levels!!!

What's going on? Any help would be appreciated, I don't know who to trust!
post #1165 of 1210
I am not surprised all of the levels are different between the discs and AVR. Some discs have the pink noise at -20 dbFS and others at -30 dbFS. This means that the -20 dbFS will be calibrated to 85 dB and the -30 dbFS will be calibrated to -75 dB. If the AVR was THX certified, I would trust it and be done with it. However, it does not appear to be the case. Does the AVR docs mention 75 or 85 dB?

If this is the original AIX disc that came out around 4 years ago, I believe it is using white noise, so it will be loud. I have the THX disc, but I don't recall the levels.

I would probably use the internal pink noise of the AVR and trust it. You might want to go through the Blu-ray player menu and make sure that the internal speaker settings are all at the default value and it is not doing anything to attenuate one channel over the others.

Its also worth pointing out that an AVR can generate noise that is not messed with by bass management. Noise on a disc will be going through bass management. Also, noise on a disc may also be getting adjusted by DialNorm.

How big is the difference between speakers for the various discs?
post #1166 of 1210
Finally received my disk will have a look tonight.
post #1167 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by wse View Post

I calibrated first using the SSP-800 using pink noise. Calibrated all speakers to 75 db.

I don't know who to trust!

Agree with Stacey, use the audio processor to set the levels. It is most likely using filtered (band limited) pink noise as a source for setting levels. The test disc may be using wideband pink noise.
post #1168 of 1210
Our pink noise is 500 Hz to 2 kHz @ -30 dBFS for the mains and 30 Hz to 80 Hz @ -40 dBFS for the LFE. All noise verified using an APx585 HDMI audio analyzer. Both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD have DialNorm set to -31, which is off so they are at the same level. We used a similar slope to THX, so our noise is pretty close to matching that built into a THX AVR. It does sound a bit different to the ear, but the SPL reads the same.
post #1169 of 1210
Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View PostOur pink noise is 500 Hz to 2 kHz @ -30 dBFS for the mains and 30 Hz to 80 Hz @ -40 dBFS for the LFE. All noise verified using an APx585 HDMI audio analyzer. Both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD have DialNorm set to -31, which is off so they are at the same level. We used a similar slope to THX, so our noise is pretty close to matching that built into a THX AVR. It does sound a bit different to the ear, but the SPL reads the same.

So I will try it then!

post #1170 of 1210
The subwoofer level is where I've found considerable variance between the built-in test on the audio receiver and various test discs, including HD Benchmark. I've also found considerable confusion about setting correct subwoofer levels with an SPL meter, much of which seems to be a result of attempting to apply (or mis-apply) information intended for commercial equipment and test material to consumer equipment and test material, so I hope bringing it up here doesn't stir up too much controversy about the subject. However since it is only implied and not specifically stated and I've gotten so much variation on subwoofer level measurements, I would like to verify that the Audio Calibration Levels are designed to result in identical readings between the subwoofer and other speakers on an accurate c-weighted SPL meter when the subwoofer level is correct.
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