"High Definition Benchmark" BD Edition by Stacey Spears and Don Munsil - Page 31

OK, here comes the hammer! Just kidding.

It will help you get an accurate image. Not everyone finds it better. Was your display calibrated with your current player? If so, I would hope the calibrator set everthing up correctly.

I would start by reading the articles on our website. The one you will want to go through is choosing a color space to make sure you are sending the best image to the display.

Which display are you using?

I have a Pioneer PDP-5071PU Plasma TV and it was calibrate when it was hooked up to my Panasonic DMP-BD55K. I now hooked up my new Oppo 93 blu ray player to it so I am not sure if it would be ok with the new player?

If you are sending in the same color space (4:2:2, 4:4:4, or RGB) you should get the same image. Same for resolution and framerate.

Where you sending in the best color space from the Panasonic? That model may have only supported 4:4:4 and RGB.

I would go through the steps in the color space article to see if one is better than another. Then once you find the one that is the best, tune it up.

I would write down the settings you are currently using before you begin.

Well it has been a few weeks and I have given the brightness and contest settings far too many hours of attention, especially illy based on the s&m manual indication that this should take 30 mins!

I am sure this will be hard to diagnose from afar, but every time I work through the brightness and contrast test and then I try to watch a movie or tv the display is WAY too dark. And I don't mean a bit too dark and I am just used to it being brighter, I mean unwatchable dark.

I can try to go into more detail but the basics are I follow the instructions, I can see the bars I am supposed to see and not see the bars I am notwithstanding supposed to see....

gtm73,

It the display is way too dim, then you can turn up backlight or contrast. I would try backlight first since it is not a video control. Turn it up to 100% and see if you are happy with the light output. If so, problem solved.

If it is still too dim, then you will need to turn up contrast until you are happy with the light output. If you clip some of the video, there is not much you can do. Some manufacturers really overdrive the display to get a bright image.

I would start with backlight since that controls how bright the panel is.

I have a quick question concerning BTB and WTW on the S&M disc-

In order to see all the steps (especially above-white), I have to do one of two things: either turn on the DRE (dynamic range expander) on my Kuro 111 or to use the brightness settings on my Blu-Ray (Panasonic BD35).

However, I've read that doing any of these things actually "compresses" the contrast ratio of my display, and that I'm not necessarily doing myself any favors by messing with any settings outside of the normal brightness and/or contrast controls on the Kuro.

Should I be doing everything in my power to get that extra "white" information?

Enabling DRE is not compressing the image however on the monitors it appears to effect gamma and there are other reported artifacts. I don't have any experience with the 111/151. Since it's Dynamic Range Expansion the artifacts are hard/impossible to see on static images. Anything other than enabling DRE that shows above white is compressing the dynamic range to fit in 16-235. My suggestion is to leave DRE off and set the maximum output level with a meter rather than a clipping pattern. This is discussed at somewhat contentious length in the Kuro Elite/Monitor threads.

Thanks- just to clarify-

If I mess with settings on the Blu-Ray player, I'm compressing the image, but enabling DRE, while showing me WTW, introduces artifacts that are undesirable.

When you say meter, I assume you're talking about something that's not on the S&M disc, correct?

Also, how hard should I be working to get that WTW information?

Yes, a device to measure light output. See a discussion of photometry for further reference.

I don't think you should worry about it, other people have other opionions.

There is a relatively small amount of WTW in the image; maybe fine detail in the clouds?

I adjust contrast not to maximize WTW, but to improve detail in the Clipping pattern.

Have you read the Contrast article on the S&M site?

-Bill

WTW is used because it is easy to see. What's really important is the concentric red, green, and blue boxes. That information is all within 16-235 in YCbCr. It only goes above 235 when converted to RGB. These boxes represent real picture information. However, they are more difficult to discern than white, which is why we use white to set contrast.

I have a very quick question.
I recently upgraded to the panasonic tcp50gt25 3d set. its awesome. I also have the onkyo receiver rc 270. I have HDMI 1 going to the tv and the HDMI 2 going to the receiver. I was wondering about the imput and output from the receiver. it will output at 1080P 24P yacharb24bit but then output at yacbarg30. when I use 444 on the oppo player. but when I use the 422 then its 24 and 24 on the oppo. it will also do this on my panasonic 210 which is hooked directly to the tv. but not the ps3. it will out at 30 instead of 24. is there a reason for this or something that I need to beconcern about?
its the onscreen receiver info that shows up on the screen when I do display.
thanks
Jacob

I'll do that now- thanks for the help and assistance!

When setting contrast, I know there's 3 important things: No clipping, no color shifting, no eye strain. BUT, what is the most important thing if there's clipping? Lower contrast until clipping is gone, and go with that setting? I'm using this disc, I have no other special equipment. Thanks.

I have found on my Samsung display a generous range of contrast settings "work". This is just by eye, no instrumentation.

It does not exhibit color shifting even at maximum setting. Lowering it somewhat improves the clipping pattern although I never see perfect detail inside the boxes. There may be more advanced adjustments to be done, but without meters I am going to let it be for now.

-Bill

Thanks, but that doesn't help me. If I don't have eye strain or see color shifting, but it clips red, what do I do? Lower contrast until clipping is gone, and go with that setting?

If the contrast is not so low as to dim the image, that's what I would do. It's a compromise between the brightness of the whites and detail in the clipping pattern.

Recognize that the contrast control can't solve everything. Could be the color primaries need adjustment, but you need meters and / or pro calibrators for that.

-Bill

Stacey and Don have some excellent white papers here: http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/articles.html

And back in this thread they've talked about clipping quite a bit.

Colors space conversion in the player or display can cause the clipping. You need to experiment with sending YCbCr 4:2:2, YCbCr 4:4:4 and RGB from the player to see if one "behaves" better than the other.

Most of the time with today's displays, calibration is finding minimal number of compromises (i.e. deviations from "perfect") to get an accurate reproduction of the source material.

larry

Thanks. I don't recall those settings in the player(Pan. BD65). Are you familar with that player? For what it's worth, the display is a Mits. HC3800 front projector, 1080p DLP.

No, sorry, don't know anything about your Panny player. Ask in the BD65 thread in the BD player forum here.

larry

edit: I just did a quick run through of the BD65 manual. It doesn't appear that you can control the color space output. It does mention a setting for RGB that appears to let you select between PC and video levels. Maybe the player will output a specific color space if you can somehow set the PJ to only accept one of the types.

Thanks. I'm going to leave well enough alone, before I make things worse.

Well, before you give up try dropping "color" down a little bit and see if it helps.

larry

Drop color down to see if it helps the red clipping? Even if it helps, the color saturation would be too low. Back in this thread I believe there are example images where RGB is being clipped.

A lot of the time calibration is managing trade offs. You want to possibly lose highlights and have "correct" color or see the highlights (detail) with color that may be off just a tad?

larry

I just ordered the SM BD calib and will be using a PS3 as the player. Does anyone have any experience or advice as to what settings on the PS3 are key to an accurate calibration? Any features to turn off/on/adjust?

Will be *trying* to calibrate a Samsung UN46D7000.

Thanks!

Sean

Check in the PS3 thread in the BD player forum here. You need to make sure you get the RGB and "white setting" set properly so that the digital video values are passed correctly from the PS3.

larry

Thanks PS! I'll set the RGB to limited and turn on super white if not already done.

I appreciate your help.

Sean

^^^ That sounds right from what I remember when I used my PS3 for BDs. With the S&M disc you'll be able to verify that video levels are passed correctly.

larry

As noted in the PS3 video setup section you can also use YCC or AUTO if your display is well-behaved (most are).

S&M have an article on choosing color-space which is worth reading.

Thanks for the tip; I'll check to see how nicely that setting works with the output!

Sean