Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 6

NJPapi1977, just read a review on that monitor on CNET. CNET loved it. A couple of users claim that it does a bad job of stretching 720p PS3 games to 1080p. Any comments?

Thanks for the replies

I almost want to make a huge list of 23inch native TN panel. There's a load of them online & sold at retail store.


LG 2353V
Gateway FHX2300
Samsung 2433LW
Acer X233H BD
HP W2338H
Samsung P2350

Not true. I use my monitor for gaming only with PS3 and 360

games are rendered in 16:9 which is a mode that is supported by the monitor in the options menu

I prefer to use screen fit.... That one is the tv version of dot to dot

all my games look flawless with screen fit for both consoles.

THeres no LCd monitor with "no lag". It's just a question of how much NJPapi

Thanks for the list Mr Deap

Thanks

Interesting, the Toshiba 40xv645u is a new contender, looks like an extremely fair compromise of better than average picture quality + clear red fonts and only slightly higher lag numbers.

The sub-par motion enhancement is another potential "con", but i doubt many following this thread are listing that as their #1 feature to have.

I wonder how the other lower cost Toshiba models compare.

Thanks for the new surprise entry Frito.

I'm buying a 46 inch and am on the fence.

kdl 46v5100 sony vs. ln46b650 samsung

The deciding factor would be input lag. Since I can't test them and am having trouble finding results on here after about 3 hours of searching.

Trying to decide today as there is a great deal on amazon now and I'm thinking their sales reset on sunday like everywhere else and don't want to miss out if I go for the sammy.

Will appreciate any help clarifying which would be better.

edit: I'll be leaving which ever I choose in game mode w/ a ps3 via hdmi

I had an L37S1 briefly, at the start of my ongoing quest for a mid-size gaming-friendly TV. My experience with it was very similar to yours -- minimal input lag, weak blacks, good off-angle viewing, etc. The reason I gave it up was that the motion focus didn't quite work for me.

I play a lot of Rock Band with vocals, and finding a set with clear scrolling lyrics and at the same time low lag has been a real challenge. The motion focus feature sounded like exactly what I needed - 120Hz scanning backlight without any smoothing/interpolation to slow things down. Unfortunately, motion focus didn't "track" the lyrics quite right, so they would alternate between totally clear and sort of doubled and blurry every few seconds. Without it they were just plain blurry all the time. It was agonizingly close to working brilliantly, yet so far away.

Other than this, I found that motion focus had a subtle but significant reduction in blurring, at the expense of a small amount of flicker. Movies looked great on it, despite the weak blacks. A really nice set overall, but I hoped I could do better.

I've since tried a Panasonic P42S1 plasma, which had almost no blur, but the input lag was at least 50-60ms, despite being a Panny and a plasma. Also, I think it had an early-onset case of the rising black level, since the blacks never seemed much better than LCD. Sent that one back, too.

Currently I have an LG 37LH20. I had hoped that a basic 720 set like this would be a good fit for gaming, but it's not that great. Surprisingly it has an LG panel (not AUO like the LH30s have now), but I don't think it's IPS, since the lag is in the 50ms range. Blur isn't too bad -- the 5ms pixel response does seem a bit clearer than the 8ms on the S1 with motion focus off -- and I like the overall image quality, aesthetics and menu design. I could probably live with it, but I'm still on the lookout for something better.

Currently under consideration:

Panasonic L37X1
This is the model down from the L37S1; 720p and no motion focus, but still an IPS panel. Known for having very low lag, but I'm not sure about blur. Sources for these are drying up. I might take a demo set from Best Buy to give it a whirl.

Panasonic L42U12
This one's an odd choice, since it's a Best Buy exclusive, which is a little scary, and the specs say it does not have a gaming mode. However, it does have an IPS panel, though I've seen conflicting reports on its input lag (one post said 15ms, another said 50+) Essentially this would be a bigger, more expensive alternative to the X1, but otherwise pretty similar.

Panasonic P41G10 Plasma
This one's not very likely, since it's pricey and only available mail-order, but it promises to have the low lag and deep blacks that the P42S1 didn't deliver. If I get fed up with blur, I might have to give this more serious consideration. I really wish I could see one in person first.

LG 42LH40
Does anyone know if these are still coming with IPS panels? Given that I rather like the 37LH20 design, I'd consider the LH40 if it's IPS and the 120Hz schlop can be disabled to get low lag.

Sony 40S5100
Moderate lag, decent image, not sure about blur. Might be worth a look if the others fail.

I might even come full circle and go with another L37S1.

I actually brought a laptop and camera into Best Buy and did some lag tests on a few of the demo sets. They were pretty nice about it, though they definitely thought I was a madman. I did something different from the usual stopwatch tests. I'll try to follow up with some notes about how I did it and what I found out after I go through the pics.

I had the TC42U12. Lag was disappointing. It varied from low 50's through component, up to near 80 with HDMI etc!

It has VGA, which in many cases is said to be a low lag connection, but the lag was poor through VGA too.

Another thing I really didn't like about the set is it's VGA and component dont accept 1080P input. So you have to set your Xbox to 720P or so for them to even work. Which of course is likely to increase lag because now the TV has to scale. Also, it was jarring to hook my Xbox (set to 1080P out) up to the VGA and component and have them just not work at all, thought my set was defective for a while or something.


All this is with the Rock Band 2 automatic lag calibration, which I'm still wondering if results correlate to the timer method. As I said, a CRT I tested with RB2 auto showed 3 ms lag though, so to me that proved it's probably accurate.

Edit: Maybe it's panel lottery (or theyre switching to VA) and I got a VA? Frito said he thinks it's a VA when he looked at it in BB.

frito, thanks for responding to my other thread and keeping us updated with your experiences with your 40xv645u and S1. thanks also for compiling all this information and keeping it updated on the first page. i just wanted to point out a few things though: for masamunecyrus's testing of the E77U, he did his testing on the 52-inch version (LC52E77U). also, the E77U does *not* have the "vyper drive" circuitry, only the E67U does. but masamunecyrus commented that since the E77U does not have vyper drive and still performed well, he's guessing that the E67U will perform similarly or better (especially considering the E67U is 60 Hz and the E77U is 120 Hz).

I just got back from another trip to BB, this time armed with an XBox to do some more lag testing, and a camera to check out the pixels on the L42U12. I *think* we have another panel lottery on our hands...

This is the L42U12:



For comparison, this is a Toshiba 46XV645U:



Unfortunately, it's not a great picture. Even so, there appears to be a slight V shape, but it is far less pronounced than on the Toshiba panel.

Other observations:

- Off-angle viewing seemed really good to me. Looking at it from a couple of sets down the row, it held contrast better than the closer ones that were at a less steep angle.

- Black levels, at least in torch mode, looked very good for IPS, but not as good as the Toshiba VA.

- Lag test (Rock Band manual calibration) repeatedly came in around 30ms for 1080p via HDMI. I'm pretty consistent on manual calibration, but tend to add about 10-20ms, so I'd say this puts it in the realm of 20ms. I'm still going through the photos I took last time with frame counts, but so far they seem to bear this out -- it came in about 1 frame behind my laptop, which I measured at < 1 frame from a CRT. Yes, all these numbers are a bit squidgy, but I think I can safely say I was *not* seeing a 50-80ms lag.

- The specs say it has Motion Focus, but I don't think this is correct. When I had an L37S1, turning on Motion Focus had an obvious effect (see comments in previous post.) I didn't see anything like this here - scrolling lyrics were as blurry as I've come to expect from a standard 60Hz panel. There's no menu option to enable/disable it, and nothing about it in the manual.

Given all this, I am convinced that the set I was looking at had an IPS panel. I certainly don't consider it definitive proof, but it's enough to make me think it's not a slam-dunk case of VA, and deserves some more investigation.

The low lag and good overall PQ on this set are attractive, but the blur was average to below average, so I'm still looking elsewhere. I think you guys may be right about the Toshiba XV645U series being the best overall for gaming, but more on that later...

I don't feel like to read and measure the whole thing. Can you suggest a list of Samsung 1080P LCD and Panasonic 1080P Plasma that are GREAT for gaming? Thanks in advance.

In my country they hdidn't sale xv645 only z650
is z650 as good as x645?

I wish someone could list the average input-lag of all the popular TVs in a simple and readable format, or perhaps make a poll to show such results so those of us who are looking for a new TV will understand what to look for.

This thread has a lot of helpful info but it's too long and confusing to read through everything.

The short answer is that none of the current Samsung LCDs are great for gaming. The lower-end sets are "less bad." Panasonic plasmas are a better bet. I had a P42S1 for a while, which seemed to have more lag than I would have liked, though I may have overestimated it. I've seen measurements for the PxxG10 that show low lag. However, both the S1 and G10 plasmas may be prone to rising black levels over time (search for the "G10 black level" thread and start readin'...) With this in mind, I can't recommend them, either.


This thread is the closest thing to such a list you'll find anywhere. frito has been updating the first post with solid, verifiable results for specific models.

Manufacturers are NO help here. Even if they did publish lag specs, they'd be as meaningless as the ludicrous contrast ratios they provide now. A few review sites do at least some form of lag testing, but the methods and results aren't very specific, so all you get is a relative comparison to a few other sets they've reviewed.


Before this thread, I was sifting through *thousands* of posts in model-specific threads to try to find any sort of lag specs. Most cases where it is mentioned are just to say "I didn't notice any lag", which is not exactly conclusive.

I've been meaning to thank frito for giving this topic a much-needed home of its own. I guess this is a good opportunity to do so. Thanks!

Looks like my LG 37LH20-UA does in fact have an S-IPS panel...



It's a shame they don't still use IPS on the LH30 series. It was a great gaming set.

I did some more in-depth lag tests on the LH20, and it seems to be somewhere between the Panasonic S1 and X1 IPS-Alpha LCDs and the Toshiba XV645U.

I've got a few more days to decide if I want to keep it or order a Toshiba instead. Not sure what to do yet...

I'm looking for a good gaming TV. Both of those sets cost about the same.

Sharp LC40E77U
Sharp LC40E67U