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Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 7

post #181 of 4030
2/16/10 at 10:15am
Hi

All 46" panels on VA type Modules(incl.Sharp ASV!!)

Such as 37"/42"/47"s IPS type Modules thru LGD(S-IPS type)

IPS/Pro/Alpha thru IPS/Japan!!!(Pany/Hitac LCD use these
Modules 32"/37" only) 42"s(Pany/Hitac not IPS/Japan and its
thru LGD)

Bye++
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #182 of 4030
2/16/10 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saiyanjin2 View Post

I'm looking for a good gaming TV. Both of those sets cost about the same.

Sharp LC40E77U
Sharp LC40E67U

look in the first post, the E77U has been tested before and had very low input lag

E67U should perform as good but has never been tested AFAIK
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post #183 of 4030
2/16/10 at 11:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

I just got back from another trip to BB, this time armed with an XBox to do some more lag testing, and a camera to check out the pixels on the L42U12. I *think* we have another panel lottery on our hands...

This is the L42U12:



For comparison, this is a Toshiba 46XV645U:


It clearly show that the U12 is not a IPS alpha.

That how it should look actually look.




My LZ800 is glossy. It's easier to see the form of the pixel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

Yeah the Toshiba is clearly a VA panel, i own that TV i know it is for sure

the 42U12 photo is clearly an IPS panel but not an IPS-Pro panel as used in the 32" and 37" S1's

it looks like an LG Display IPS panel they have the slight v shape



http://www.ips-alpha.co.jp/en/technology/ips.html

That's pretty much how it is. Not all Panasonic LCD are actually IPS alpha. It's better to bring a digital cam & actually take a picture of the pixel to make sure.

Though IPS alpha panel can be seen from very far, because it's like night & day in comparison to usual IPS panel.
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post #184 of 4030
2/16/10 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

It clearly show that the U12 is not a IPS alpha.

Definitely -- there are no IPS-Alpha panels larger than 37" at this time. S-IPS is still pretty good, except for the black levels.

Thanks for the pic that shows what an Alpha looks like. Thats some pretty small text you have there! Definitely 1:1 pixel mapping, too.
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post #185 of 4030
2/16/10 at 5:52pm
Anyone have any ideas on how Toshibas hold up? I'm looking at a 37RV525R right now but I couldn't find anything on it.
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post #186 of 4030
2/16/10 at 6:20pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

Definitely -- there are no IPS-Alpha panels larger than 37" at this time. S-IPS is still pretty good, except for the black levels.

Thanks for the pic that shows what an Alpha looks like. Thats some pretty small text you have there! Definitely 1:1 pixel mapping, too.

black levels are not much better on the IPS-Alpha panels either

I can live with the blacks on my 37" S1 but its a far cry from VA panel blacks still but its worth it to get good pixel response time across the board and low input lag for gaming/pc use and thats what my TV's dedicated for mostly other than cable TV use when i'm on my bed
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post #187 of 4030
2/16/10 at 6:27pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefjerky_7 View Post

Anyone have any ideas on how Toshibas hold up? I'm looking at a 37RV525R right now but I couldn't find anything on it.

read my first post, there are input lag results for 2 differient toshiba models both showing good input lag in game mode

i owned one of the models tested (i tested it) a 40xv645u

for the price paid it was a pretty good 120hz TV but it had some major drawbacks that led me to buy a panasonic 37 S1 for my use and then we tried the toshiba in our living room to replace a 46" 1080i CRT RPTV but alas it was too small for our 10 foot viewing distance so i returned it and bought a panasonic 50" 720p plasma for the same price (actually 26 dollars cheaper due to no recycle charge we get hit with here in cali on CCFL LCD's) and have not looked back

positives for the 40xv645u were good black levels when in the TV's sweet spot, good color reproduction when not in game mode and 120hz worked fairly well with movies but not as good as sony or samsung TV's

negatives were poor black levels out of the TV's sweet spot (more than 15-20 degrees off center was enough to make blacks turn a very purple hue) some mild flashlighting that was not a huge deal but there none the less. poor pixel response time and color reproduction in game/PC modes when the TV had low input lag making it poor for PC monitor use but probably just fine for most games except very dark games, they would definitely have visible smearing in game mode from my tests
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post #188 of 4030
2/17/10 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by beefjerky_7 View Post

Anyone have any ideas on how Toshibas hold up? I'm looking at a 37RV525R right now but I couldn't find anything on it.

When I did a Rock Band manual calibration on a 40RV525R/U at Best Buy, the lag was higher than on the 46XV645U. Game mode was about the same speed as the 645U's 120Hz mode, and standard mode was worse. I guess it's typical for a VA panel. I'm not sure why the 645U is significantly faster than other VAs.

I wasn't able to do a stopwatch / frame count test, because its HDMI input wouldn't handshake with my laptop (MacBook Pro early 2008.) The TV actually locked up and needed to be powered off and back on.

I ruled the 525R out pretty quickly as a result of these tests. The 645U is a only a bit more expensive, and seems to be well worth the difference.

Given frito's experience with the 645U, I think I'm going to end up keeping the "lowly" LG 37LH20-UA. There's nothing awesome about it, but it does well enough on all of the things that are most important to me.
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post #189 of 4030
2/17/10 at 10:06pm
Maybe someone will find this helpful (I did not do these test)
Panasonic VIERA 32" TC-L32X1
http://www.youtube.com/user/Cicada13.../8/YN-ktFollVs
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post #190 of 4030
2/17/10 at 11:37pm
Thread Starter 
thanks for the test results Saiyanjin2, has low lag as i would expect from an IPS-Alpha panny
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post #191 of 4030
2/17/10 at 11:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

When I did a Rock Band manual calibration on a 40RV525R/U at Best Buy, the lag was higher than on the 46XV645U. Game mode was about the same speed as the 645U's 120Hz mode, and standard mode was worse. I guess it's typical for a VA panel. I'm not sure why the 645U is significantly faster than other VAs.

I wasn't able to do a stopwatch / frame count test, because its HDMI input wouldn't handshake with my laptop (MacBook Pro early 2008.) The TV actually locked up and needed to be powered off and back on.

I ruled the 525R out pretty quickly as a result of these tests. The 645U is a only a bit more expensive, and seems to be well worth the difference.

Given frito's experience with the 645U, I think I'm going to end up keeping the "lowly" LG 37LH20-UA. There's nothing awesome about it, but it does well enough on all of the things that are most important to me.

that sucks

I attribute the 645U's low input lag is due to the lack of aggressive RTC when its in game mode thus resulting in smearing with dark images. this is the main reason why 95% of VA panels perform poorly input lag wise. most TV manufactures do not want to reduce RTC enough to bring the lag to very low levels because it results in easily visible smearing, though in my experience any VA TV i've owned always had more image blur than my IPS panasonic. yet more reasons why IPS are the way to go for PC monitors/gaming TVs
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post #192 of 4030
2/18/10 at 10:21am
I have to admit, I'm still a bit noobish when it comes to all the new technology, but I about freaked when I started reading about input lag, and I'm glad I found out now! I mostly play FPS games online w/ my PS3, and this would explain why my game would go to crap when going from Sammy to T240HD, to my now dead Westinghouse 37" LCD.

I'm on the verge of buying a new panel that will be primarily used for gaming in my bedroom/office, so now all of this is a big concern for me!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I have been reading the info in this thread, the lag occurs when using a digital signal. (HDMI) Running an analog signal introduces very little, if any, input lag.

So my question is this. Could you not avoid a lot of these lag issues by running your game system from a component video connection since that's essentially an analog connection?

I've not really looked at a lot of the settings on the xbox 36o menus, but on the PS3, you can output 1080p through a component cable connection, and still send HD audio over HDMI to your receiver. Going this route, in theory, would give you the best benefit.

Is my line of thought here flawed? I admit, I don't enough about the technology to make a really educated guess. Just a curious thought!
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post #193 of 4030
2/18/10 at 11:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Furious One View Post

I have to admit, I'm still a bit noobish when it comes to all the new technology, but I about freaked when I started reading about input lag, and I'm glad I found out now! I mostly play FPS games online w/ my PS3, and this would explain why my game would go to crap when going from Sammy to T240HD, to my now dead Westinghouse 37" LCD.

I'm on the verge of buying a new panel that will be primarily used for gaming in my bedroom/office, so now all of this is a big concern for me!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I have been reading the info in this thread, the lag occurs when using a digital signal. (HDMI) Running an analog signal introduces very little, if any, input lag.

So my question is this. Could you not avoid a lot of these lag issues by running your game system from a component video connection since that's essentially an analog connection?

I've not really looked at a lot of the settings on the xbox 36o menus, but on the PS3, you can output 1080p through a component cable connection, and still send HD audio over HDMI to your receiver. Going this route, in theory, would give you the best benefit.

Is my line of thought here flawed? I admit, I don't enough about the technology to make a really educated guess. Just a curious thought!

Digital vs Analog has little to nothing to do with input lag and when it comes to digitally based displays like LCD analog can add lag due to the fact that the signal must be converted to digital before it is sent to the LCD panel anyways

there are 3 factors that contribute to input lag

1. whether or not the game is being ran at the native resolution of the TV or not (1080p for a 1080p LCD, 720p for a 720p) running a game say at 480p or 720p on a 1080p TV/monitor will result in the display having to upscale the picture to its panel's native resolution of 1080p and on MOST TV's this results in a decent jump in input lag

2. how much video pre-processing is done by the TV, This is deflatable in most recent TV's and pretty much all name brand sets via game mode.

3. this is the big one. What type of LCD Panel is used has a major impact on the minimum lag figure for a TV. most TV's made today use VA panels that require the use of Response Time Compensation (RTC) or more commonly called overdrive in PC monitors, the reason why they use this is because VA panels although have great contrast making them ideal for TV use have poor pixel response time without RTC and would have visible smearing with many slight transitions. RTC adds input lag because the LCD panels Timing Controller (TCON) must buffer incoming frames so it can analyze them to use the over voltage technique just right to make the pixels switch state faster without causing other nasty side effects like inverse ghosting which is caused by the pixels overshooting their desired state.

IPS panels can use RTC but generally do not need to use it to get good pixel response time and if they do use it its not as aggressive as the ones use on VA panels most notably 120hz+ VA panels

some TV's game modes will shut off or reduce RTC to lower input lag like the Toshiba 40xv645u that i used to own but in doing this you get visible image smearing with dark images
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post #194 of 4030
2/18/10 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

there are 3 factors that contribute to input lag

That is by far the most succinct and detailed description of the causes of input lag that I've seen anywhere.

I guess this means the short answer to the input lag question is: find a set with an IPS panel. IPS-Alpha is better than S-IPS, but both are much better than the various forms of VA panels that are used in most sets. The price you pay is poor black levels.

The specific sets I've seen mentioned so far are:

Panasonic

TC-L32S1, L37S1, L32X1

These all use IPS-Alpha panels, and have the lowest lag available.


TC-L37X1

Not IPS-Alpha (probably S-IPS), but still low lag


TC-L42U12 (Best Buy Exclusive)

Some of these use S-IPS panels, and some VA. The IPS sets have low lag, the VA sets don't. You can look closely at the pixel structure to see which panel a particular set has.


LG

37LH20 - I bought one in January, which has an S-IPS panel. Decently low lag, maybe not quite as good as the Panasonics.

37LH30 - early production units are S-IPS with low lag, current units are VA with high lag.

Various other LH-series sets - Unknown, and probably vary between production runs.

I don't know of any other specific brands/models that have IPS panels. "IPS Alpha Technology Limited" is a joint venture of Hitachi, Toshiba and Matsushita (Panasonic), so they will probably show up in some Hitachi and Toshiba sets soon if they haven't already.


Of course, these are all 2009 models, which are disappearing fast. (Best Buy discontinued the L37X1, and Sears won't even accept orders for the L37S1 in my area.) The L37S1 is one of the best in this bunch, and I don't see anything in the currently announced Panasonic 2010 lineup that matches it closely.

Good luck, folks!
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post #195 of 4030
2/18/10 at 1:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

Digital vs Analog has little to nothing to do with input lag and when it comes to digitally based displays like LCD analog can add lag due to the fact that the signal must be converted to digital before it is sent to the LCD panel anyways

there are 3 factors that contribute to input lag

1. whether or not the game is being ran at the native resolution of the TV or not (1080p for a 1080p LCD, 720p for a 720p) running a game say at 480p or 720p on a 1080p TV/monitor will result in the display having to upscale the picture to its panel's native resolution of 1080p and on MOST TV's this results in a decent jump in input lag

2. how much video pre-processing is done by the TV, This is deflatable in most recent TV's and pretty much all name brand sets via game mode.

3. this is the big one. What type of LCD Panel is used has a major impact on the minimum lag figure for a TV. most TV's made today use VA panels that require the use of Response Time Compensation (RTC) or more commonly called overdrive in PC monitors, the reason why they use this is because VA panels although have great contrast making them ideal for TV use have poor pixel response time without RTC and would have visible smearing with many slight transitions. RTC adds input lag because the LCD panels Timing Controller (TCON) must buffer incoming frames so it can analyze them to use the over voltage technique just right to make the pixels switch state faster without causing other nasty side effects like inverse ghosting which is caused by the pixels overshooting their desired state.

IPS panels can use RTC but generally do not need to use it to get good pixel response time and if they do use it its not as aggressive as the ones use on VA panels most notably 120hz+ VA panels

some TV's game modes will shut off or reduce RTC to lower input lag like the Toshiba 40xv645u that i used to own but in doing this you get visible image smearing with dark images

Thanks! That was very educational, and helpful! I think I may just stick with the Panny TC-L42U12 42" LCD. I had been looking at some of the LG, and Sharp LCD sets in that panel size, but I'm looking for good picture quality, and excellent gaming performance. Since Panasonic only uses IPS panels, and those are the obvious choice for performance in gaming. That seems to be the way to go, and that particular set is about $600 cheaper than the other 2 I was looking at!

Brent
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post #196 of 4030
2/18/10 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

That is by far the most succinct and detailed description of the causes of input lag that I've seen anywhere.

I guess this means the short answer to the input lag question is: find a set with an IPS panel. IPS-Alpha is better than S-IPS, but both are much better than the various forms of VA panels that are used in most sets. The price you pay is poor black levels.

The specific sets I've seen mentioned so far are:

Panasonic

TC-L32S1, L37S1, L32X1

These all use IPS-Alpha panels, and have the lowest lag available.


TC-L37X1

Not IPS-Alpha (probably S-IPS), but still low lag


TC-L42U12 (Best Buy Exclusive)

Some of these use S-IPS panels, and some VA. The IPS sets have low lag, the VA sets don't. You can look closely at the pixel structure to see which panel a particular set has.


LG

37LH20 - I bought one in January, which has an S-IPS panel. Decently low lag, maybe not quite as good as the Panasonics.

37LH30 - early production units are S-IPS with low lag, current units are VA with high lag.

Various other LH-series sets - Unknown, and probably vary between production runs.

I don't know of any other specific brands/models that have IPS panels. "IPS Alpha Technology Limited" is a joint venture of Hitachi, Toshiba and Matsushita (Panasonic), so they will probably show up in some Hitachi and Toshiba sets soon if they haven't already.


Of course, these are all 2009 models, which are disappearing fast. (Best Buy discontinued the L37X1, and Sears won't even accept orders for the L37S1 in my area.) The L37S1 is one of the best in this bunch, and I don't see anything in the currently announced Panasonic 2010 lineup that matches it closely.

Good luck, folks!

More great info, and yet, very troubling for me lol! I didn't realize that the tv I'm looking at is a BB exclusive. I hate buying large items at BB. More so the one closest to me. It's usually a big hassle because a lot of their employees are not even close to being half way trained primates! I'm not real hip on the "panel lottery" idea either.

Even if I could distinguish the pixel structure on the floor model, need to read back through this thread to figger out how, there is no guarantee that I will get an IPS panel in the set I'm buying. I really don't want to go smaller than a 40" or 42" set either.


Black levels are not a huge concern for me. I am by no means extremely picky about some of the things that most would flip about on here. I thought my old Westinghouse 720p set had a really good picture, and my current Sharp Aquos 720p is really good to, so just about anything is a step up from those 2.
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post #197 of 4030
2/18/10 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

TC-L42U12 (Best Buy Exclusive)

Some of these use S-IPS panels, and some VA. The IPS sets have low lag, the VA sets don't. You can look closely at the pixel structure to see which panel a particular set has.

All signs point to this being only S-IPS, I speculated it may be VA when i saw it at best buy because i seen a V shape to the pixels and viewing angles were similar to the Toshiba 40xv645u but i'm pretty sure i made the wrong assumption

it has decently low lag for a LCD TV at 15-30ms putting it in the range with the other S-IPS 60hz TV's from panasonic and LG

the higher end LG's as well as some Vizios and some Toshbias 650U's definitely use LG's S-IPS panels, this is often evidenced by the screen size of 47" which to date has only been made by them

input lag on these TV's is often in the sony/samsung range of 45-60ms and i attribute this to them using more aggressive RTC on the panels in order to accommodate for 120hz, because it makes no point in advertising a panel as 120hz if they pixels cannot change state fast enough to actually achieve that update speed as well as just plain having more image processing built in that may or may not be reverse able but not enough owners of these TV's have come forward with test results on them either so its mostly speculation on my part
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post #198 of 4030
2/19/10 at 6:18am
I wish someone could tell me if the HDMI2/PC trick also works on the PN (plasma) A650 series. And if it does what the results are vs. a CRT
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post #199 of 4030
2/19/10 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

All signs point to this being only S-IPS, I speculated it may be VA when i saw it at best buy because i seen a V shape to the pixels and viewing angles were similar to the Toshiba 40xv645u but i'm pretty sure i made the wrong assumption

it has decently low lag for a LCD TV at 15-30ms putting it in the range with the other S-IPS 60hz TV's from panasonic and LG

This post by sharky974 casts serious doubt on the consistency of the L42U12. I'm basing a fair amount of my conclusions on manual Rock Band calibration tests, so I believe his auto-calibration tests show that his set was somehow different. The panel seems the most likely change.

It's maddening -- the panel type has a huge impact on many aspects of performance, so this is just one more way the consumer is getting hosed. It seems they shouldn't be able to hide behind a "specifications subject to change without notice" disclaimer. Should they really be allowed to change between the time you read the outdated specs and click "Add to cart," and when it shows up at your door?

I wish I knew of a good way to draw more attention to this issue. I felt forced to deal with local retail stores because of this, which I really wasn't happy about. Still, all's well that ends well, and I think I did come out of this pretty well. It's kind of sad, though, that my "best" choice was one of the cheapest name brand 720p sets available. At least "cheap" was in the equation.
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post #200 of 4030
2/20/10 at 1:15pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wondras View Post

This post by sharky974 casts serious doubt on the consistency of the L42U12. I'm basing a fair amount of my conclusions on manual Rock Band calibration tests, so I believe his auto-calibration tests show that his set was somehow different. The panel seems the most likely change.

It's maddening -- the panel type has a huge impact on many aspects of performance, so this is just one more way the consumer is getting hosed. It seems they shouldn't be able to hide behind a "specifications subject to change without notice" disclaimer. Should they really be allowed to change between the time you read the outdated specs and click "Add to cart," and when it shows up at your door?

I wish I knew of a good way to draw more attention to this issue. I felt forced to deal with local retail stores because of this, which I really wasn't happy about. Still, all's well that ends well, and I think I did come out of this pretty well. It's kind of sad, though, that my "best" choice was one of the cheapest name brand 720p sets available. At least "cheap" was in the equation.

hehe yeah its quite difficult to find the right display for gaming.

i wonder though someone should try this new trick i just learned about, I never realized it before but i know its true because i've seen it happen on every VA panel i've owned and my IPS 37S1 does not do this, it makes determining the panel type very very easy to do

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post #201 of 4030
2/20/10 at 2:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trent_bob View Post

If no one has posted this here:

Good news:

I picked up the 47'' XVT472 LED at sams (got the display model)

I tested it for input lag with Rockband 2 autocalibration.

It was pretty slow in HDMI 1080P

But low and behold, I hooked up with the xbox VGA adapter and it tested between 16-19ms everytime. The most frequent results were 16 and 17ms.

That's about 1 frame of input lag. That's very good for an HDTV of any kind.

Good news for you gamers out there. Just make sure you use the VGA connection and run the TV "wide" settings in "full".

And make sure your xbox is outputting 1920.1080 and you are good to go.

Unlike a lot of TV's I've seen, this one actually has a nice picture in VGA mode.

Side note: This set is BRIGHT. First thing I had to do when I turned it on was turn the brightness way down. For all of you that enjoy digital suntans this set will do it.

how valid or accurate is this test method?
I'm considering buying a 472xvt of 551/552xvt main reason is the lower power usage & 2mil : 1 contrast ration of these led tvs.
to be used with a ps3 games. i have until march 16th to make a decision. that's when God Of War 3 comes out.
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post #202 of 4030
2/20/10 at 2:39pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwami View Post

how valid or accurate is this test method?
I'm considering buying a 472xvt of 551/552xvt main reason is the lower power usage & 2mil : 1 contrast ration of these led tvs.
to be used with a ps3 games. i have until march 16th to make a decision. that's when God Of War 3 comes out.

that test method is pretty accurate because it uses a sensor on the controller to calibrate the input lag of the display

i do not think you want to consider this TV though because if you read his post more carefully he says low lag was on achieved on the VGA input and 1080p on HDMI was laggy making this only useful for XB360 and PC users because the PS3 does not have the ability to output VGA
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post #203 of 4030
2/20/10 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwami View Post

how valid or accurate is this test method?
I'm considering buying a 472xvt of 551/552xvt main reason is the lower power usage & 2mil : 1 contrast ration of these led tvs.
to be used with a ps3 games. i have until march 16th to make a decision. that's when God Of War 3 comes out.

It's actually pretty accurate for anything over 12ms. When something lags less than that it seems to always show 14ms. 13 rarely.

But tonight we will be doing the CRT test method. We hope in a way that will eliminate some of the variables.

I'll let you know the results for both modes tomorrow or tonight.

-INPUT LAG JUSTICE ... MAN
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post #204 of 4030
2/20/10 at 3:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trent_bob View Post

It's actually pretty accurate for anything over 12ms. When something lags less than that it seems to always show 14ms. 13 rarely.

But tonight we will be doing the CRT test method. We hope in a way that will eliminate some of the variables.

I'll let you know the results for both modes tomorrow or tonight.

-INPUT LAG JUSTICE ... MAN

I look forward to getting some real figures on a Vizio

as soon as i get my SD card reader issues sorted i have some good 720p results to post on my Panny 37S1, looks like the scalier in these pannys is indeed very fast!
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post #205 of 4030
2/20/10 at 3:44pm
Thread Starter 
Panasonic 37" S1 (1080p native)
vs
Viewsonic 17" CRT monitor

1280 x 720 (720p)





all 3 results show 13ms input lag!! VERY impressive considering the TV is up scaling the image to the panel's 1080p resolution!

I've been working on trying to get my CRT to display 1920 x 1080 but windows 7 is being a real PITA. i was able to get it to display 1920 x 1080 in windows XP in the past but Win7 is a real pain. I'm pretty sure if i could get it to do it and then test my TV i would end up with consistent results well under 10ms at 1080p but as it stands now i can get my TV to say its getting a 1080p signal because my video card is scaling a lower resolution like 1280 x 1024 to 1080p but this is not optimal for testing because my video card is likely introducing a small amount of lag

either way though testing in that mode results in the same as these shots in 720p and no worse and sometimes better. this plus other peoples results at 1080p coming in with results in the 8-0 ms range often leads me to believe that my TV is basically lag free at 1080p
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post #206 of 4030
2/20/10 at 4:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by trent_bob View Post

It's actually pretty accurate for anything over 12ms. When something lags less than that it seems to always show 14ms. 13 rarely.

But tonight we will be doing the CRT test method. We hope in a way that will eliminate some of the variables.

I'll let you know the results for both modes tomorrow or tonight.

-INPUT LAG JUSTICE ... MAN

please test 1080p HDMI too
thanks man.
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post #207 of 4030
2/20/10 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

Yeah the Toshiba is clearly a VA panel, i own that TV i know it is for sure

the 42U12 photo is clearly an IPS panel but not an IPS-Pro panel as used in the 32" and 37" S1's

it looks like an LG Display IPS panel they have the slight v shape



http://www.ips-alpha.co.jp/en/technology/ips.html

Anyone want to take a guess at what type of panel this is?

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post #208 of 4030
2/20/10 at 7:55pm
Thread Starter 
It's not a multi domain VA panel that is for sure, the V is the opposite direction of LG panels I've seen macro photos of so i'm not sure unless the camera/photo is turned upside down

oh wait i remember now you bought an NEC commercial display so its got to be your NEC 720p monitor

hows that working anyways?
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post #209 of 4030
2/20/10 at 8:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

It's not a multi domain VA panel that is for sure, the V is the opposite direction of LG panels I've seen macro photos of so i'm not sure unless the camera/photo is turned upside down

The camera was taken in the correct orientation. If it makes any difference, I captured an input lag at around 12-14 ms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frito View Post

oh wait i remember now you bought an NEC commercial display so its got to be your NEC 720p monitor

hows that working anyways?

I don't use it often, but it's been fantastic so far. Black levels aren't as good as my Sony BRAVIA, but I kind of expected that. Connections were a bit of a pain since they didn't use standard RCA/HDMI inputs, so I had to purchase some adapters. Other than that, it's been smooth sailing so far.

I even tweeted someone at NEC, and they were willing to make an exception to the speaker promotion they were running between 10/1/09-12/31/09 (purchased this on 1-16-10), so that was a good taste of how well their customer service is.
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post #210 of 4030
2/20/10 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith DTT900 View Post

The camera was taken in the correct orientation. If it makes any difference, I captured an input lag at around 12-14 ms.



I don't use it often, but it's been fantastic so far. Black levels aren't as good as my Sony BRAVIA, but I kind of expected that. Connections were a bit of a pain since they didn't use standard RCA/HDMI inputs, so I had to purchase some adapters. Other than that, it's been smooth sailing so far.

I even tweeted someone at NEC, and they were willing to make an exception to the speaker promotion they were running between 10/1/09-12/31/09 (purchased this on 1-16-10), so that was a good taste of how well their customer service is.

good to hear, NEC makes great displays

i recently went 720p as well on our living room TV we got a Panasonic 50" X1 plasma and we love it.

at 10' seating distance theres not much if anything to be gained with 1080p and as most things we watch will either be HD cable or DVD's and downloaded HD movies theres not much reason for 1080p anyways plus for the same price it performs and shows more detail than the Toshiba 40xv645u 120hz lcd that we returned in favor of getting the plasma and its much better than the Toshiba was
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AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › LCD Flat Panel Displays › Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference