Do you guys think this tv will have lower or higher input lag than the LD450? This TV doesn't even have a refresh rate??? Also I don't think it has a game mode.
Has anyone tried the Sharp 32" Model LC-32DV28UT? Is this is a good model for response time? I'm trying to look for a 32" LCD with the lowest lag as possible.
I just got the 40d68ut on Sunday. The price was too good to pass up.
It is replacing a failing Westinghouse 37W3. I don't notice any difference between the Sharp and Westy. Played COD4, BF:BC2, and Black Ops. I did the Avia calibration disc, and I have to say it looks damn good to me.
Yeah I'm really happy with my Sharp Aquos LC40D68UT, too! Given its price nowadays it's a tough bargain to beat and video games look fantastic on it.
Here are my Game Mode setting for the Aquos which work pretty well if you have your Wii connected to the set with component cables.
Hey guys, I'm shopping for a 37" LCD mainly for my PS3, which has input lag of no more than 2 frames, but has great picture quality in non-game mode so that I can enjoy watching blu-ray movies. How's the Sharp LC37GP1U? I've heard that it has excellent input lag, but I'm not too sure about its image quality without vyper drive. Do you have any other suggestions? Thanks!
What about Samsung LN/LEххС750 3D did anyone test this tv?
I whant to buy this model.For playing game on xbox360-ps3 80%.I read few review about this tv.They says this tv had good picture and give 4.5 of 5 or "excellent".But they also says the input lag is high ... about 40 ms.That only one reason i dont go and buy it right now! My fears are justified?
I don't hate Sony and actually like their products overall.
the above photo c.kingsley posted looks very promising but i would really like to see more real results on current Sony TV's because his LCD monitor could be laggy and making the results skew in favor for the Sony.
what you sony owners can and should do to help everyone here and further prove the performance is either test vs a CRT (yes i know this is very hard to do these days esp at 1080p) or at least post what the model of your PC monitor is that your using so we can dig up what type of LCD it is and possibly even what its actual input lag is because they all have input lag but most TN based panels have no more than 16ms lag usually around ~10ms lag vs a CRT monitor due to both input lag and pixel lag. thats what i have always said by default a lag test done vs an LCD should have +10ms added to the results to be close to realistic and that would land the above photos at 50ms and thats pretty much par for the course with most LCD HDTVs made today and in the past few years and although passable for most console gaming/console gamers it's not good enough for everyone.
Frito, I have a CRT I can use for testing but I doubt it will display 1080p. (although I know it can do 1600x1200). Would testing at x720p be our next best option? I assume most TVs add a little more lag-time to display a 720p signal due to extra scaling?
Frito, I have a CRT I can use for testing but I doubt it will display 1080p. (although I know it can do 1600x1200). Would testing at x720p be our next best option? I assume most TVs add a little more lag-time to display a 720p signal due to extra scaling?
Absolutely better. You should be producing and HD resolution to the set. When outputting 1600x1200 to the tv you are asking the tv to convert a resolution it wasnt intended to recieve.
This is EXACTLY the experiment I just used on my ex500. the results were staggering. the difference was in game mode from the lappy native res that was outputting 1600x900 (a widescreen res btw better than 1600x1200) was running 50ms lag. Once the lappy was changed to 1280x720p the tv receiveing the same 1280x720p the ex500 scored between 20ms and 30ms lag. Making the ex500 an EXCELLENT gaming set.
this here is a major flaww in many of the tests that have been run whereby people have not been sure to run a 720p or 1080p test. While 1080p would be better, the difference in lag from converting from 720p to 1080 is quite minimal.
Absolutely better. You should be producing and HD resolution to the set. When outputting 1600x1200 to the tv you are asking the tv to convert a resolution it wasnt intended to recieve.
This is EXACTLY the experiment I just used on my ex500. the results were staggering. the difference was in game mode from the lappy native res that was outputting 1600x900 (a widescreen res btw better than 1600x1200) was running 50ms lag. Once the lappy was changed to 1280x720p the tv receiveing the same 1280x720p the ex500 scored between 20ms and 30ms lag. Making the ex500 an EXCELLENT gaming set.
this here is a major flaww in many of the tests that have been run whereby people have not been sure to run a 720p or 1080p test. While 1080p would be better, the difference in lag from converting from 720p to 1080 is quite minimal.
I know you're really stoked about the EX500, but could you please add a "+10 ms because of laptop LCD test" disclaimer to your results. Don't get me wrong, 30-40 ms is still extremely good, but claiming a definitive 20-30 ms is misleading until you do a CRT test.
They're claiming 1ms response time. I assume thats kind of bad for input lag because it=more processing correct? And this is a TN panel too right?
There's a similar sceptre 27" monitor for 309 that Anandtech tested to have very low lag, but it's 60 more expensive and not a Samsung. But I doubt I'll find any lag tests on that Samsung so I ask any opinions here.
They're claiming 1ms response time. I assume thats kind of bad for input lag because it=more processing correct? And this is a TN panel too right?
I own this exact monitor and gaming on it is pure bliss. The advertised 1ms response time is of course total bogus (just like the contrast ratio), but this screen is definitely aimed at the hardcore gamer.
Input lag is pretty much non existent, I measured 2-6ms using SMTT and a CRT. I can post pictures when I get my camera back in a few days.
@serialmike Would you mind doing some more tests with windows aero disabled? It adds vsync to the primary display making the results unreliable.
I know you're really stoked about the EX500, but could you please add a "+10 ms because of laptop LCD test" disclaimer to your results. Don't get me wrong, 30-40 ms is still extremely good, but claiming a definitive 20-30 ms is misleading until you do a CRT test.
Sorry, I wont because most of the tests results for other tv's are done with laptops also. There are no disclaimers on those therefore there will be none on my results.
My laptop is a built for gaming laptop by asus. It is entirely possible that my tft is faster than 10ms.
I own this exact monitor and gaming on it is pure bliss. The advertised 1ms response time is of course total bogus (just like the contrast ratio), but this screen is definitely aimed at the “hardcore” gamer.
Input lag is pretty much non existent, I measured 2-6ms using SMTT and a CRT. I can post pictures when I get my camera back in a few days.
@serialmike Would you mind doing some more tests with windows aero disabled? It adds vsync to the primary display making the results unreliable.
Vsync is disabled on all my pc's via nvidia driver. I hate vsync. Vsync would on slow things down and make my posted results worse than they really are. So in a worst case senario new results would only be better. though as I stated vsync is off.
Vsync is disabled on all my pc's via nvidia driver. I hate vsync. Vsync would on slow things down and make my posted results worse than they really are. So in a worst case senario new results would only be better. though as I stated vsync is off.
This will only disable vsync for games.
Aero adds vsync to your primary display but not to the cloned secondary display, meaning that the primary display has to wait for a full frame while the secondary shows whatever it gets every 1/60 of a second.
You should be able to see the difference if you move a window fast up and down on both screens (one will show tearing while the other one wont). I'm sorry to say this, but your results will most likely be worse than they are now.
Aero adds vsync to your primary display but not to the cloned secondary display, meaning that the primary display has to wait for a full frame while the secondary shows whatever it gets every 1/60 of a second.
You should be able to see the difference if you move a window fast up and down on both screens (one will show tearing while the other one wont). I'm sorry to say this, but your results will most likely be worse than they are now.
All fine and good, will get to it next week. But with that said why so eager to belittle my results with all these minute settings. Yet willing to accept lg and sharp lag times with laptops displays and vsyncs on etc.
Seems a bit odd to me.
btw vsync simply locks the refresh rate of the monitor to the fps of the app running. Due to us simply outputting 60hz there shouldnt be an issue. If we were trying to lag test 100hz and vsync was on for the lappy at 60 then issues should arise. I shall predict now very little if any difference.
All fine and good, will get to it next week. But with that said why so eager to belittle my results with all these minute settings. Yet willing to accept lg and sharp lag times with laptops displays and vsyncs on etc.
Seems a bit odd to me.
btw vsync simply locks the refresh rate of the monitor to the fps of the app running. Due to us simply outputting 60hz there shouldnt be an issue. If we were trying to lag test 100hz and vsync was on for the lappy at 60 then issues should arise. I shall predict now very little if any difference.
Serialmike, don't get us wrong, we appreceate your time to test this. BUt your results go against everything we have seen out there so we want to make sure who is right, your test or the others.
As for the input lag test on the other display, most of them were taken with CRT or for Sharp, taken with an ultra fast camera showing the exact number of frames skiped with action (which is in itself, an even better test than the CRT one).
Again, we appreceate this, we just want to make sure those results are real.
Absolutely better. You should be producing and HD resolution to the set. When outputting 1600x1200 to the tv you are asking the tv to convert a resolution it wasnt intended to recieve.
This is EXACTLY the experiment I just used on my ex500. the results were staggering. the difference was in game mode from the lappy native res that was outputting 1600x900 (a widescreen res btw better than 1600x1200) was running 50ms lag. Once the lappy was changed to 1280x720p the tv receiveing the same 1280x720p the ex500 scored between 20ms and 30ms lag. Making the ex500 an EXCELLENT gaming set.
this here is a major flaww in many of the tests that have been run whereby people have not been sure to run a 720p or 1080p test. While 1080p would be better, the difference in lag from converting from 720p to 1080 is quite minimal.
actually you are possibly incorrect.
it depends on the PC's video card. most HDTV's will not accept that resolution but video cards esp nvidia's will automatically scale that resolution to 1080p or 720p whatever resolution is closer so the TV will display it. at least with my 8800 GT it does this and for example 1680 x 1050 will automatically get upscaled to 1080p for the TV when its in clone mode with a monitor and the input lag induced by this is extremely low because Nvidia cards have a very fast scalier, tests i did awhile back showed at most 4-5ms of added lag.
as for giving a 1080p TV a 720p signal, its not ideal but is useful to tell how much lag it has at that resolution but in my experience TV's have at least 10ms and sometime a whole lot more than that in added lag when the scalier has to upscale 720p to 1080p
All fine and good, will get to it next week. But with that said why so eager to belittle my results with all these minute settings. Yet willing to accept lg and sharp lag times with laptops displays and vsyncs on etc.
Seems a bit odd to me.
I'm not sure what sharp and lg tests you are refereeing to, but I have posted the aero thing many times before:
If this just happens with my PC I would be glad to be proven wrong, but that doesn't seem to be the case so far.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike
btw vsync simply locks the refresh rate of the monitor to the fps of the app running. Due to us simply outputting 60hz there shouldnt be an issue. If we were trying to lag test 100hz and vsync was on for the lappy at 60 then issues should arise. I shall predict now very little if any difference.
Exactly, one screen runs at a locked framerate while the other one does not. The secondary screen shows whatever is available at the time, this could be 2/3 of the new frame and 1/3 of the old frame,thus causing screen tear. The primary screen will show the old frame until it gets the next one, this eliminates screen tearing but slows things down as you noted earlier.
I'm not trying to belittle your results at all. This thread is filled with posts like: whats the lag on this samsung tv and whatever bought it anyway, don't notice any lag while playing final fantasy. I hereby declare this tv to be lag free. I'm glad that some people are actually willing to properly test their sets.
I can't seem to find here on this thread anything related to the Samsung LE40c530.
I intend to buy one next week Monday. But my concern is the input lag while playing Ps3
I will order mine here in Germany, i have no idea what panel i will get ( just like every1 ) But if someone could post some Input lag tests for this Model, i would be really thankful.
Is anyone keeping a record of all these displays? Frito's first post was great but he hasn't been keeping it updated.
Keep up the good work on keeping those measurements coming in. I for one am still waiting on a 55" with less than 20ms delay so I keep checking back regularly with hopes of finding one.
I can't seem to find here on this thread anything related to the Samsung LE40c530.
I intend to buy one next week Monday. But my concern is the input lag while playing Ps3
I will order mine here in Germany, i have no idea what panel i will get ( just like every1 ) But if someone could post some Input lag tests for this Model, i would be really thankful.
Best regards
According to this (link above)... this tv (32" model) has 16ms of input lag, which is extremely good for an LCD tv... heck it is good for any tv. If that number holds in the 40" version, then lag is something you will never have to worry about.
*EDIT* Site won't let me post the link, because I don't have enough posts. But goto hdtvtest dot co dot uk, and do a search for Samsung LE40c530... it will bring up the review on the 32" version, and just scroll down in the review where they show the input lag as they tested it. They also have a section where they describe how this tv works for gaming. They give it very good marks for gaming.
Is anyone keeping a record of all these displays? Frito's first post was great but he hasn't been keeping it updated.
Keep up the good work on keeping those measurements coming in. I for one am still waiting on a 55" with less than 20ms delay so I keep checking back regularly with hopes of finding one.
I've been shopping for a new TV, and looked everywhere for a site that actually lists input lag with no luck. Several European sites test this, but outside of some vague and very scattered info, it is next to impossible to find an solid input lag numbers on US models TVs.
I ordered a Panasonic Viera TS-P42S2 yesterday after doing alot of research for a good Gaming and Sports tv. Supposedly the input lag on this screen is excellent, but I couldn't verify anywhere, so I hope when I test it, the lag is as low as I was led to believe for gaming.
My old 32" Magnavox 32MF23ID/37 tested at around 100MS input lag (I would post the pics, but I can't post links here yet). So for me almost anything would be an improvement.. lol.
I can't seem to find here on this thread anything related to the Samsung LE40c530.
I intend to buy one next week Monday. But my concern is the input lag while playing Ps3
I will order mine here in Germany, i have no idea what panel i will get ( just like every1 ) But if someone could post some Input lag tests for this Model, i would be really thankful.
Best regards
Not sure if the LE and LN versions are exactly the same, but I did a lag test on the LN32C530 (link). Results show 1-3 frames of lag. A big note though, I wasn't aware of the "PC" setting when I was doing the lag test, so I don't know if this setting plays a role in reducing lag or not.
I can't seem to find here on this thread anything related to the Samsung LE40c530.
I intend to buy one next week Monday. But my concern is the input lag while playing Ps3
I will order mine here in Germany, i have no idea what panel i will get ( just like every1 ) But if someone could post some Input lag tests for this Model, i would be really thankful.
Best regards
I was thinking about getting the LN40C530 as well next week. The 37" suits my needs better, but every store I visit sells the 40" about $100 cheaper (go figure).
I purchased the KDL-40EX400 this past Wednesday from Waltmart ($498+Tax), and lets just say I'm a little disappointed. Don't get me wrong, it's fast enough to make me happy (I use all my tvs as PC monitors). I'm playing Bad Company 2, Warcraft, and Hot Pursuit right now (but I play UT2004 & UT3 when bored). However, there's some big processing issues. First of all, text and small shapes have artifacts. I have played around with ClearType in Windows, reduced sharpness to 0, turned absolutely everything off, made sure it was running 1080p, and still text doesn't look like it should. Some letters have shadows of pixels inside/around them. Other letters have missing pixel inside them.
The other problem is something that I can only describe as smoking effect. It's not blurring or ghosting, it really looks like smoke, because if If move 2 very contrasty objects passed each other, the moving one usually leaves a dark trail as it moves. Also, if I minimize and maximize windows really fast, you can see a ghost image for a split second.
But don't get me wrong, this second problem is extremely minimal, I just have very picky eyes for this type of stuff. This is my 5th 1080p tv (Westinghouse lvm-37w3se, Samsung LN52B750, Panasonic TC-P54S1, my beloved Panasonic TC-P58V10, and now this Sony KDL-40EX400). My uncle has a Samsung LN46A550 connected to a PC as well. So yeah, at this point I have a good sense of how things should look.
I can live with the second problem, I just don't like the first one, because aside from not 100% clear text, it also amplifies artifacts. So if a youtube video had sings of compression, those flaws get overblown because the tv is adding it's own artifacts on top of that.
Here are some pictures: (Take special note how the non-bold/non-capital "m" has a line going across it inside. Also, how brackets "[" have missing pixels. Round things, like "o" or "8" have pixel shadows inside, which others have them on the sides. While the pictures are not the best, just trust me here, it doesn't look right in real life.)
If I don't find a friend with a laptop with HDMI to test some tvs at BestBuy, I might just buy the LN40C530 and see what happens. After all, Walmart doesn't have a restocking fee as long as you meet their requirements. But I have to say, It's between that or the Panasonic TC-L37U22. I've recorded some video in stores, played it back frame-by-frame, and the U22 always seems to update faster. I'm not sure if BestBuy uses a HDMI splitter or whatnot, but it should be an indication.
Here's a video I recorded from BestBuy (camera=iphone4):
(From Left: C530, U25, X500, U22, X400, D68UT.
All of them are 40", except the Panasonics which are 42")
Anyways, hope that helps somebody. I'll come back next week with some video comparing the EX400 to whatever else I end u getting. I have to wait still for my extra DVI-to-HDMI cable so I can run clone mode in my PC. So yeah, if not next week, then the next, I should have some info.And hopefully a happy me.
Ok, bye, and thanks for reading.
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For shits and giggles, a pic of the KDL-EX400 next to my precious TC-P58V10.
But don't get me wrong, this second problem is extremely minimal, I just have very picky eyes for this type of stuff. This is my 5th 1080p tv (Westinghouse lvm-37w3se, Samsung LN52B750, Panasonic TC-P54S1, my beloved Panasonic TC-P58V10, and now this Sony KDL-40EX400).
Any particular reason why the LG xxLD450 is not your list? It has lesser-or-equal input lag to the Samsung LNxxC530, and it doesn't exhibit any of the problems you described with the EX400. My opinion entirely, but as long as you get the S-IPS version of the LD450, it will trump the PVA of the C530 as far as image quality is concerned.
Plus the lack of text clarity is most likely due to lack of proper 4:4:4 chroma support on the EX400. The LD450 is one of the very few LCDs out there that support 4:4:4 perfectly fine.
Do you guys think this tv will have lower or higher input lag than the LD450? This TV doesn't even have a refresh rate??? Also I don't think it has a game mode.
I can say that LD350 (8ms) has lower input lag than LD450 (16 ms).Also 32 inch version supports 1080p and it's cheaper.I personally want to take 32LD350 with S-IPS but I'm not sure - does LD350 support full 4:4:4 mode?
I can say that LD350 (8ms) has lower input lag than LD450 (16 ms).Also 32 inch version supports 1080p and it's cheaper.I personally want to take 32LD350 with S-IPS but I'm not sure - does LD350 support full 4:4:4 mode?
they aint that low 8 or 16ms. thats the response time of the panels not the lag.
