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Input lag wars!, post your input lag results of your LCD display here for reference - Page 100

post #2971 of 4043
9/3/11 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

Should be the same as the 32" version I would think, which has been tested at around 10-16ms.

Where are you getting those numbers? Was it the AVS review that ballparked it based on feel?

There's a review on FlatpanelsHD that got 31 ms.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1314784403
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post #2972 of 4043
9/4/11 at 3:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Fusion View Post

What about the Panasonic regular (non-LED) LCD models? Still the best?

Panasonic own the best display & 3D display on LED, LCD & Plasma at the moment on the size they actually sell(they have no LCD at 46inch & over).

As long as they keep this quality there's no reason to look elsewhere.
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post #2973 of 4043
9/4/11 at 9:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colmino View Post

Samsung's TVs, for all that they exhibit poor gaming performance, are at least known to be able to pass 4:4:4 color. Pity, that.

I just hooked up an old PC to my 22" Samsung LED (UN22C4000). I haven't gone into game mode yet but it appears to pass 4:4:4 over HDMI. When I hooked the PC up it recognized the TV as a Samsung and the AMD Vision Center now has a choice of full or limited RGB (?), both 4:4:4. I haven't renamed the input to PC, and I'm using HDMI 2. I should be using HDMI/DVI (HDMI 1), I think. One thing I did beforehand was change the TV to RGB in the advanced settings. So, yes, Samsung TV's do 4:4:4 and they do have lag on regular settings. Next I'll try Game to see if that helps.

Incidentally, text looks very good. I haven't seen any artifacts. It looks like a monitor running at native res (1360 X 768).

Edit: There's no RGB advanced mode on the tv, I was mistaken. I use RGB mode on the cable box. The PC outputs RGB over HDMI which the tv accepts.

By switching the PC from HDMI 2 to HDMI 1 (HDMI/DVI) and naming the input "PC" I substantially reduced the lag on all the games I've tried. As you'd expect many picture options are now greyed out.

Another goof was not realizing that Game Mode on this set means game devices. For PC gaming use HDMI/DVI and choose PC from the input name list. Game Mode is only available when you're not in PC mode (in PC mode Game is greyed out).
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post #2974 of 4043
9/4/11 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipodes View Post
Where are you getting those numbers? Was it the AVS review that ballparked it based on feel?

There's a review on FlatpanelsHD that got 31 ms.
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.p...&id=1314784403
There's a tech review on the Euro version that has it at 10-16ms. It's the same set made for higher voltage wall outlets with a slightly different model number. As I've said though, I feel the DT30 is way overkill unless you really, really want 3D, 120Hz, and net connectivity, and can easily afford paying at least twice as much as you would for the 32U3, which is plenty adequate for movies and gaming and reviewed to be very low in lag.
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post #2975 of 4043
9/5/11 at 6:35pm
I'm sure this has been answered a dozen times in the past few pages but its not covered in the OP, wading through google searches and this thread is a little tiring, and I want to be clear (just sold my older sharp lcd and need a new one this week) - the 32u3 is the lowest latency 1080p, 32 inch lcd in the 300-400 dollar range, right? Does it have any issues with ghosting? My sharp 32e67u had a wonderful game mode but the ghosting was very noticeable. Does it support 1080p over vga?

Could someone link me the post or youtube vid where they do the actual latency testing for the 32u3? The only one I can find is the one with a scaled 720p image - that can't be what we are basing the recommendation on, are we?
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post #2976 of 4043
9/6/11 at 2:01pm
I think you're worrying about it a bit too much Zap. That set has a native res of 1080p, and the primary cause of input lag in TVs is typically video processing. Furthermore when displaying at 720p it's scaling, so if anything lag levels, if there were any perceptible differences (more like minutely measurable differences) would be lower at the native res.

As for VGA, most would use HDMI and account for any slight imperfections in video quality (like red shades of text in desktop use) via adjusting sharpness down and/or turning noise reduction on. There could be slightly lower lag on VGA, but I doubt most would notice the difference.

The VGA format however supports up to 2048×1536, so on this set it should output up to 1080p on VGA. There is one and only one review I've ever seen where a customer on Amazon claims this set won't output higher than 768p on VGA. He implies he's not sure if it's his EVGA 460 though, which he connected via a DVI to VGA adapter. He goes on to say his Samsung works fine as a PC display. For someone that is SO picky about lag, I find it odd he even owns a Samsung.

Sometimes you have to go into your GPU's settings and make sure the res you want to use is showing and enabled on the output you're using, and if it's not listed you can often enter a custom one on the list. In his review this customer also said he asked a gal at Panasonic before he bought it if he would be able to use 1080p via VGA, and she said yes. EVGA also confirms this should be the case, so I tend to think he just doesn't know much about setting up res options.
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post #2977 of 4043
9/6/11 at 3:20pm
Hey,
quick question:
I need a new lcd for my notebook (internet, video, gaming), wii and xbox360.
from what i've read panasonic would be a good choice regarding input-lags.
Can you tell me the difference between the TX-L37E30 and TX-L37EW30?
For the ew30 i would have to pay about 200 euros more than for the e30, so is there any reason i should choose the more expensive one over the other?

Thanks.
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post #2978 of 4043
9/6/11 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

I think you're worrying about it a bit too much Zap. That set has a native res of 1080p, and the primary cause of input lag in TVs is typically video processing. Furthermore when displaying at 720p it's scaling, so if anything lag levels, if there were any perceptible differences (more like minutely measurable differences) would be lower at the native res.

As for VGA, most would use HDMI and account for any slight imperfections in video quality (like red shades of text in desktop use) via adjusting sharpness down and/or turning noise reduction on. There could be slightly lower lag on VGA, but I doubt most would notice the difference.

The VGA format however supports up to 2048×1536, so on this set it should output up to 1080p on VGA. There is one and only one review I've ever seen where a customer on Amazon claims this set won't output higher than 768p on VGA. He implies he's not sure if it's his EVGA 460 though, which he connected via a DVI to VGA adapter. He goes on to say his Samsung works fine as a PC display. For someone that is SO picky about lag, I find it odd he even owns a Samsung.

Sometimes you have to go into your GPU's settings and make sure the res you want to use is showing and enabled on the output you're using, and if it's not listed you can often enter a custom one on the list. In his review this customer also said he asked a gal at Panasonic before he bought it if he would be able to use 1080p via VGA, and she said yes. EVGA also confirms this should be the case, so I tend to think he just doesn't know much about setting up res options.

I only ask about the vga rez as my last tv wouldn't do full hd resolution on the vga port - the highest widescreen resolution it did was 768p (the 32e67u was a full 1080p set though). This was documented in the manual as well (it did 1600x1200 as the max 4:3 resolution which I assumed it scaled down).

Much of the content I will be using will actually be at 480p, as my xbox 360 is in another room at the moment and I have as wii on the component input, as well as a lot of older consoles hooked up to an xrgb2 line doubler outputting 640x480 via vga (that will be resolved later this year when they release their xrgb mini).

I guess I'm a little ocd about it, but its really annoying that I haven't found a single 32 inch tv with an average latency confirmed under 16ms released this year. MAYBE the lk450, but all the info i have on that is just people assuming it will be as good as last years model, if you win the panel lottery.

I think I'll buy the 32u3 next week, and do some personal testing. I should have everything to do vs crt testing, and vs the vh236h monitor (the latency of this has been well documented, and I can use a splitter with this to rule out my video card prioritizing one port over another)
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post #2979 of 4043
9/6/11 at 5:02pm
AFAIK, the W30 has a more diverse tuner and Wi Fi built in vs "ready", but don't quote me on that.
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post #2980 of 4043
9/7/11 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapf View Post

I think I'll buy the 32u3 next week, and do some personal testing. I should have everything to do vs crt testing, and vs the vh236h monitor (the latency of this has been well documented, and I can use a splitter with this to rule out my video card prioritizing one port over another)
goddamnit, 12 hours after I bought the splitter and cables from monoprice, a like new 32ld450 appears on amazon marketplace.
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post #2981 of 4043
9/7/11 at 11:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by leathaface View Post
Hey,
quick question:
I need a new lcd for my notebook (internet, video, gaming), wii and xbox360.
from what i've read panasonic would be a good choice regarding input-lags.
Can you tell me the difference between the TX-L37E30 and TX-L37EW30?
For the ew30 i would have to pay about 200 euros more than for the e30, so is there any reason i should choose the more expensive one over the other?

Thanks.
Hi

I'v Euro 37E30E;it has very low input-LAG!!
Therefore difference is EW30 model has it DVB-S/S2 Tuner only!!

For my opinion if you havnt SAT-Receiver,as it means that you can
be prefere EW30 as well,or if you hv a SAT-Receiver you do not need anymore EW30 too

I use this panel for my Desktop display pusposes only!!
Text seems very good!

But the PQ is not fine(especially Black details/shadowing/depth etc.,)
For SD PQ mediocre(even with my Humax HDCI2000 Reciever!!)
For HD PQ very good

It produce such "Natural picture"

++
So if you live in Europe,pls choice 32 or 37 DT30/35 Series than E30E and pay
for the difference where its worth to pay as well!!

Bye++
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post #2982 of 4043
9/7/11 at 1:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapf View Post

goddamnit, 12 hours after I bought the splitter and cables from monoprice, a like new 32ld450 appears on amazon marketplace.

There's no guarantee it's IPS though. Personally I didn't care for the PQ on last year's LGs, looked a bit fuzzy. This year's LGs are noticeable sharper in PQ.
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post #2983 of 4043
9/8/11 at 6:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post
There's no guarantee it's IPS though. Personally I didn't care for the PQ on last year's LGs, looked a bit fuzzy. This year's LGs are noticeable sharper in PQ.
It was the model with W in the product code according to seller. But he just canceled the order this morning, so thats all irrelevant. I guess I'll have some use for this splitter after all.
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post #2984 of 4043
9/8/11 at 12:33pm
Does anyone know anything about the Toshiba 55G310U as far as gaming lag is concerned?
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post #2985 of 4043
9/9/11 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Deap View Post

Panasonic own the best display & 3D display on LED, LCD & Plasma at the moment on the size they actually sell(they have no LCD at 46inch & over).

As long as they keep this quality there's no reason to look elsewhere.

Wow. I didn't think anybody was going respond to my posts. Thanks Mr Deap! You also have some great insight over at the Gaming section of this forum as well.
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post #2986 of 4043
9/9/11 at 11:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hi Def Fan View Post

Like I said, I've decided to avoid LG for a few reasons.

1. I don't care to be put through a panel lottery, whereby I'd have to buy from Amazon whom allow free 30 day returns (they pay shipping) and hope to get an IPS.

2. LGs have twice the defect rate of Panasonic and the problems don't always show up right away.

3. I feel Panasonic has far better customer support.

As for LCD vs LED, this year I don't see that it's necessary or worthwhile to pay more for an LED. Last year I was considering the Panasonic D2 model, which was LED and showed noticeably better color contrast than their CCFT models, but had problems with crushing blacks.

This years Panasonic LEDs just seem to have the tradeoff of some colors being displayed noticeably inaccurate, like golf greens looking yellowish. Whats more the CCFT models seem to have a bit better color contrast than last years, without any trouble showing dark gradients (little to no black crushing).

What draws people to LEDs a lot is they tend to make colors pop a bit more, especially blue skies. LEDs are not pure white light though, they're a bit bluish. They can make colors look vibrant, but unnaturally so. It really depends what kind of look you want and how much you're willing to spend.

The LED vs CCFT issue is a lot like HID vs standard Halogen car headlights. The first time you drive a car light at night on a rural road that has HIDs, you realize how much brighter they are, but they also make all the trees and other objects look a bit unnatural. It's a bluish light they put out. Over the years people have gotten used to LEDs and HIDs and saturated colors in TVs. This is why you hear a wide range of what looks good. Some want almost cartoonish looking colors, others want the look to be as natural and realistic as possible.

LEDs, use less power and last longer, but CCFTs in a reliable brand like Panasonic will last a good while too. The energy savings on an LED TV is only around $5 a year maybe. The energy use is more of a talking point for die hard eco heads than out of practicality. Long before the LEDs burn out, something else in the set will have blown, so you very likely will never get all that life out of them.

As for the U3 being a poor monitor, you'll hear lots of testimonials from customers that never spend much time fine tuning a set. Keep in mind too that lack of 4:4:4 color ability as far as text goes mostly shows up with text that is some shade of red. None of the forums I surf use red text.

As I said above I've narrowed my choice down to a Panasonic TC-L32U3. The only problem is I wasn't planning on getting a TV until I get a more powerful GPU to support 1080p. If the price on the 580 drops a fair bit when AMD comes out with their 28nm GPUs, I may get both the U3 and a 580 near year's end. If I can't get a good deal on a 580 though, I may have to game at 1280x720 for a while on the U3.

For any of you wanting to get a very accurate brand/model comparison, or just LCD/LED comparison within a given brand, go to Video Only if you live on the west coast in the US. They have by far the cleanest video feed of any store I've been to, so it's a lot easier to see what the set can really do.

From thigns I've read it says LCDs last much longer than LEDs.
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post #2987 of 4043
9/10/11 at 2:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midnight77 View Post

From thigns I've read it says LCDs last much longer than LEDs.

The only difference in an "LED" vs "LCD" TV is the backlights in an LED are LED vs CCFT. Look at ANY LED light product be it a mere flashlight or TV and the rated life of the light bulbs themselves is FAR longer than any other type. CCFTs are mere fluorescent tubes capped at the end vs sealed and they CAN and sometimes do fail before other parts. The only exception is Hitachi made some rather expensive sets with sealed CCFTs.

It's all rather moot though because both types of lamps will typically easily last as long as you'd have the set, whether the CCFTs are sealed or not. People need to understand though that the term "LED vs LCD" is rather misleading to those not fully understanding the construction of such sets. Both still use LCD screens.
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post #2988 of 4043
9/10/11 at 3:09pm
Yes I know that makes sense. That's why I was susprised that I read that the CCFTs listed a longer life. It was in some comparison article I read. And I believe it said plasmas last the longest of all which doesn't make any sense to me either... Maybe depends on what they consider "lasting longer".
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post #2989 of 4043
9/10/11 at 4:34pm
Got my splitter and the panasonic l32u3 today. Did extensive testing with hdmi at 1080p today (all my game rez requirements will be 1080p by late october). I compared against the vh236h since it is fairly well tested and the standard monitor (other than old crts) at most major fg tournaments (also I owned it so that was the most convenient). I took about 100-120 pictures across all hdmi inputs (was originally doing 1/60 but 1/320 shutter speed gave me less blurring - results were the same though). My testing with smtt gave me an average of 16.3ms on input two - input three was similar, and input 1 was waaay laggier. Turning off the AI picture setting (only thing left on when set to game mode) also worsened the latency. Gaming mode appears to be on by default on this set - there is a special viera menu where you can switch from it to standard, but it does the same thing as setting it in the normal video settings menu.

Add that to the average latency of the vh236h at 1080p (8.3ms) and you have a little under 25ms average latency. I'm not really interested in testing the vga input at this point, as the manual says it wont go to to 1080p. I'll test standard mode for shits and giggles

I'm going to see if I can find average latency for the vh236h in 720p mode and return this for the c3

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post #2990 of 4043
9/12/11 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raxxath View Post

The Panasonic U3 doesn't sound like a very good PC monitor in

That is SO odd... the C3 displays gorgeous picture, when run through my G73.

I finally got both my Evo monitor and my C3 in the same place, so I'll run them each against my laptop screen, and get the results by tomorrow night.
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post #2991 of 4043
9/13/11 at 11:35am
Some great posts here!

Does anyone know how good the LG-LK450U is for gaming?

I've saw some posts on it from this site but I got confused about all the panels as I'm not an expert

Does the panel type really affect much when gaming? or is it just more important to experts?

Been looking for a good budget tv under £500 and this looks good so far but can't find any reviews!

Does anyone know how the picture is and the input lag ?
I'll mostly be gaming on it, including some fps

cheers
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post #2992 of 4043
9/14/11 at 10:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mystic54 View Post

Good luck with that one. I've been trying for a few weeks now but there is very little user review information on those two models.

I have a 55HX820 and with the gaming mode on and set to speed, there's only 20-30ms of lag.
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post #2993 of 4043
9/17/11 at 8:51am
I've done an input lag test on the VIZIO E3D420VX...


Benchmark: No input lag
This is what the lag test produced on my old CRT television. As the picture illustrates the input lag is almost non existent.



Input lag on the Vizio was locked at 50ms.
Note: my laptop was connected via HDMI and set to output @ 1280x720 which is not the native resolution of this television so these results might be improved with a 1920x1080 source.

The vizio was setup as follows...
Picture: Game/More/Advanced Picture: All turned OFF

Settings/Game Mode: ON

Something worth noting: If you are experiencing lag of upwards of 150 ms while gaming, (the controls will feel VERY floaty, easily noticeable if FPS's or fighting games) try turning the Settings/Game Mode: to OFF then turn Game Mode back ON. I was experiencing lag for about a week and was ready to give up on the TV... Then I decided to try this and it worked like a charm.
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post #2994 of 4043
9/18/11 at 6:21am
I have searched far and wide for a LED LCD that has no clouding, good motion, and low input lag. No offense to many, but recommendations are rarely found on these websites. So, given my recent experience, I wanted to offer a solution to those in my situation. The Sony NX720. It is a fantastic tv, excellent pq, but best of all... no appreciable input lag. I do not have the results, but the results would show minimal lag numbers. If I can still perform well in gt5, dirt 3, fallout, wipeout (yea, wipeout...), and NOT in game "scene"... this is a good tv..
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post #2995 of 4043
9/18/11 at 11:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluskinsfan21 View Post
The Sony NX720. It is a fantastic tv, excellent pq, but best of all... no appreciable input lag. I do not have the results, but the results would show minimal lag numbers. If I can still perform well in gt5, dirt 3, fallout, wipeout (yea, wipeout...), and NOT in game "scene"... this is a good tv..
The problem is, it's pointless to make a blanket statement about "appreciable" input lag because everyone has an amount they can or cannot tolerate. There's no standard for what is or isn't perceptible. The Sonys are hardly known to be "low" in it either when tested for it. If they were I'd have gotten one by now, because they do have excellent PQ.
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post #2996 of 4043
9/18/11 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by craga2011 View Post

Some great posts here!

Does anyone know how good the LG-LK450U is for gaming?

cheers

I tried the 37lk450 with the ips panel before going back to the u3. It was at least double the latency I was seeing on the panasonic (so 2.5 frames+). I would avoid the 37 at least.
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post #2997 of 4043
9/24/11 at 6:34pm
Questions for the pros on this thread. I am a little worried to get a new HDTV because as most of you guys here I am gamer and Input Lag and Blur really bother me.

I am a bit spoiled because I currently own both the Panny TC-L32S1, and Sammy XL2370 both well known for no input lag or as close to it as possible.


Anyways I have narrowed my Choices and need some Advice suggestions about these 2 units.

At Best Buy.

Samsung, UN40D6420UFXZA also named the UN40D6400

and or

Panasonic TC-P42ST30

both mainly used for Gaming Xbox PS3. And TV use.

any help is much appreciated.
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post #2998 of 4043
9/25/11 at 10:25am
Can anyone post what input lag I can expect from the European Panasonic TX-L32E3 (so not the DT30 or E30 model, but E3, like this one http://www.redcoon.be/index.php/cmd/...nic_TX_L37E3E/). Currently deciding between this one, or the 42" Panasonic S30 plasma (which is really just a tad too big for my use, but I could manage).
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post #2999 of 4043
9/26/11 at 5:46am
FYI I am the happy owner of a Philips 42PFL6805H !
Like already reported from other websites it has no input lag (I have not made the test myself with the specific tool, but with videogames I have played I cannot see any input lag).
I also find the picture very very good despite a low measured contract, maybe it is the quite rare matte screen (anti-glare) it uses?
Cheers
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post #3000 of 4043
9/26/11 at 6:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post

Questions for the pros on this thread. I am a little worried to get a new HDTV because as most of you guys here I am gamer and Input Lag and Blur really bother me.

I am a bit spoiled because I currently own both the Panny TC-L32S1, and Sammy XL2370 both well known for no input lag or as close to it as possible.


Anyways I have narrowed my Choices and need some Advice suggestions about these 2 units.

At Best Buy.

Samsung, UN40D6420UFXZA also named the UN40D6400

and or

Panasonic TC-P42ST30

both mainly used for Gaming Xbox PS3. And TV use.

any help is much appreciated.

If it helps any, I have the 55" Samsung D6420. With game mode on, there is little to no gaming input lag. I posted a lengthy bit in the D6000 and separate D6400/D6420 owner's threads.

I watch DirecTV with game mode OFF, and I see some ghosting when a quarterback throws a long pass or when a punt goes up in the air quickly. Turning game mode on during regular programming might fix this I don't know. The ghosting during fast motion is disappointing, but it doesn't occur super-often, so it's not that much of an issue for me. I hear the 7000 and 8000 series sets are much better about motion, but the price is higher as well.

I have not had a huge amount of time to play around with my set yet, but I can say that turning Game Mode ON eliminates all to almost all input lag on the 6420. Input lag is basically imperceptible with Game Mode ON.

I don't feel like I've played enough games yet to comment on how Game Mode affects picture quality, but I can post back if anyone is interested. So far, after about 10 hours of Gear of War 3 campaign, I have not noticed any major picture quality issues.

Also, I did not notice input lag at all in other games, and ONLY when I tried the "active reload" feature in Gears of War 3 did I notice that the set had input lag. But like I said, Game Mode got rid of it.
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